Address for Progressive Centres

[GreatBarrier]

Can someone kindly update and provide contact and street addresses of Progressive centres in the world which are operational and estimated active members and Imams, a small description whther all services from Naming of child to death are provided ?

This will allow some of us to visit and see for ourselves your operations ?

Mumbai
Kolkata
Chenai
Ahmedabad
Udaipur
London
Paris
Manchester
Karachi
New York
Chicago
Californian cities
Toronto
Singapore
Hong Kong
Sydney
Melbourne
Nairobi
Mombasa
Dar-es-Salaam
Dubai
Cairo


and please add cities not already listed.

[Hussain_KSA]

You may check on this board how many jamat under reformist movement are working right now. Kuwait and Dubi jamat are not included in this list.

However there are many cities where we dont have centers but they are reformist by thier thoughts. There are many insider (even on this board) who are reformist and want change.

As far as services are concerned we know this is the only perpose and propaganda of tyrant kothar to ex comminicate the people so they will not get these services and fall back to their fold.

The jamat mentioned on this boards are providing all the services you are intrested to know, however you will miss the main attraction of your life like "Ghanu Jivo Ghanu Jive", STD, Purjosh Matam, Najvo, Collection, Musallah place sales etc. We may assure you of getting love, caring and respect.

Welcome to reformist fold.

[Smart]

@GreatBarrier,
After establishing your credibility as the defender of the indefensible and the abde brigade, it is completely incomprehensible as to why you would be interested in knowing information about the progressive centres around the world.

Are you a fifth columnist here to collect information and pass it on to lords and masters, so that they focus their energy on destroying these centres and the people associated with them?

Why would you require the services of the progressive centres? You can go to any local amil and get this service with value addition (raza).

[Admin]

Here you can find details of some our jamaats: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/about_us/jamaats/
This list is not complete. Soon we'll have information about other jamaats in the UK and Kenya.

[Al Zulfiqar]

smart, sorry to correct u, but the right attitude shud be to encourage anyone, irrespective of his leanings, to visit reformist jamaats and intermingle with the bohras there to see first hand how they conduct themselves. this will go a long way towards removing the misconceptions that orthodox bohras have.

these centres are functioning openly and legally. they have nothing to fear.

[Danish]

Are there any progressive jamaat, markaz or even plain 'home' gatherings in and around Orange County, California? I would recommend the Progressive Dawoodi Bohra Administration to calenderize their events from time to time and make known to all Bohra Communities to willingly participate in good faith. Any support needed from myself shall be considered (just email or PM me).

[Danish]

Any support needed from myself shall be considered (just email or PM me).

Note: Please do not hesitate to request or question me for anything whatsoever. I am liberal, open-minded and rational when it comes to logical humanitarian efficacies.

[GreatBarrier]

From the list my locality in Melbourne is not covered ?

Any way thanks for the info

[Al Zulfiqar]

From the list my locality in Melbourne is not covered ?

Any way thanks for the info

why dont u take the initiative in melbourne and start a reformist chapter there?

[GreatBarrier]

From the list my locality in Melbourne is not covered ?

Any way thanks for the info

why dont u take the initiative in melbourne and start a reformist chapter there?

AZ reform to what ...as mentioned it depends whether you see the glass half full or half empty...I see it half full and am getting nett benfit of a good society that Orthodox Bohras live...I have grown up to balance my life and accept the rules of the community and life has its ups and downs where administrators appointed get carried away but not to the extreme that I would create a radically hostile opposition and based on my Islamic knowledge and practises I will be seriously mis-leading people . You can stay within the flock and stand up for your dignity..I have done so and have not encountered some of the issues that at times read strange if not exagerated.

If the Bohrafaith ever becomes intolerable (God Forbid) due to the methods of local Chamchas and Amils I would have left for Ithna-Asheri and only for the society purposes while continue the respect for Sayedna which based on our recent posts Orthodox lifestyle looks a better alternative to Progressive methods.

I still belive in my heart that Sayedna is personally a very decent person and presently accept him as the Leader of my identity, culture and faith. I have no ambitions to challenge his authority and why should I if I am in a win win situation... I have never ever heard him publicly speak of evil against us members infact I have personally heard him say invite people with kindness. If his delegates are making mischief why would I in a knee jerk reaction blame Sayedna...it is like one blamming the respected founders of Islam for the mis-deeds of deviant terrorists actions.

With the numbers just described and how thinly Progressives are spread across the world...you do not have the numbers (with which comes strenght and influence) to be a serious opposition. You are statistically outnumbered 1 in a 1000 and if you include the silent opposition within the Orthodox you would hardly run up to 1 in a 100. You can do the sums for a 1million population. Some of you will take this as a sarcastic remark but others will read as live up to the reality statement. I look forward to GM and your attacks.

[Danish]

Sayedna is personally a very decent person and presently accept him as the Leader of my identity, culture and faith.

Never judge a book by its cover.

I have no ambitions to challenge his authority and why should I if I am in a win win situation...

Why not and what win-win situation are you talking about?

[like_minded]

I have no ambitions to challenge his authority and why should I if I am in a win win situation...

The win-win situation GB is talking about is nothing but the "feel good" factor artificially created by the hierarchy. It shuts reality and takes one in an abstract world. Where there are answers for every questions (of course these answers are imaginary and not real)

[GreatBarrier]

..that is also another explanation of religion...it is called faith...it cannot always be explained scientifically. Mankind for 10,000s of years have taken spiritual comfort in many diffrent ways. I am quite comfortable with my faith and yet open to listen and learn about diffrent perspective as many Progressive do so on this site.

As you cannot prove Allah but yet we are required to accept there is One God and we have accepted Rasullalah AS message for it. Even when we see misery and death around the planet we do not doubt His Humility and Forgivensess we request it and hope it will be granted to us. That is called faith and love for your sustainer. If you go deeper into how things are and why they are as they are that is the next stage of knowledge and is not mandatory

[Smart]

@AZ
Thanks for correcting me. Advice well taken

[GreatBarrier]

Can someone kindly describe how the Progressive administration is operated ?

Who is the community leader ?

Who is the source of jurispudance, ulema ? If not the same as above, do you have a committee of scholars.

How do you fund your operations...ie do you have sabeel ?

How do you administer zakat ?

Do you have madrassas and how do you train talebats and scholars ?

How do you track community members and are they registered ?

How do you organise Hajj ?

How do you organise inter-marriages, introductions since your society is small how do ensure your traditions and school of thought is not dispersed if youth marry outside the fold ?

[Humsafar]

Can someone kindly describe how the Progressive administration is operated ?

Every reformist jamat is a registered entity in itself and is administered on transparent and democratic principles. All reformist jamats in India are affiliated to the Central Board of Dawoodi Bohra Community (CBDBC). Reformists jamats outside India are not officially affiliated to the CBDBC but are part and parcel of the reform movement. All office bearers and executive members of every jamat and body are elected for a fixed term.

Who is the community leader ?

There is not community leader as such. The president of a jamat could be considered a leader of that particular community.

How do you fund your operations...ie do you have sabeel ?

Jamats in India have members pay zakat and sila fitra and sabeel. Zakat is left to the individual and sila fitra and sabeel are fixed, nominal fees. There are again nominal fees for using jamatkhana for private functions etc. Zakat is spent on helping the poor and on charities. An annual statement of accounts is made public at a general meeting. Outside India, jamats normally charge a flat membership fee. However, most of the activities in India and abroad are funded by generous private donations.

How do you administer zakat ?

I think has been answered above.

Do you have madrassas and how do you train talebats and scholars ?

In Udaipur they have regular deeni and arabic classes for both children and adults. In other places due small reformist population parents get together to organize private sessions where the learned individuals and elders teach children. Reformists in the UK have done a great job in publishing religious and namaz books with translation.

How do you track community members and are they registered ?

Yes. every jamat has registered members.

How do you organise Hajj ?

Haj is normally organised by a private tour operator, and reformists tend to go in groups

How do you organise inter-marriages, introductions since your society is small how do ensure your traditions and school of thought is not dispersed if youth marry outside the fold ?

Most of the marriages take place within the community. These days in Udaipur since the blurring of "barat" has increased contact between the reformists and the orthodox there have a quite a few instances of marriage across the divide. But generally small numbers have forced reformists to widen their horizon and they now seek out a match from reformists from different cities and countries. It has its own challenges but it is good for the Bohra gene pool. As for marrying outside the fold, it happens every now and then - but it's not a major concern.

[S. Insaf]

Dear Brother GB,

Can someone kindly describe how the Progressive administration is operated?
Who is the community leader?

The Bohra reform movement, especially in Udaipur is a mass movement and not a leader led movement. Hence though some persons in key positions in the Jamat deserted the movement, it has made absolutely no difference.
The Reformist Jamats are based on the principles and practices of earlier benevolent Dais before 51st Dai. The reformist Jamats are totally independent. Their office-bearers are periodically elected democratically and they manage the Jamat’s affairs; making proper and good use and regular maintenance of community’s properties under their control, appointment of mullas and moallims to run madrasas, perform religious rites from time to time like, nikah, talaq, burial rites, Misaq, majlis, vaiz and other religious and cultural programs, appoint teachers and manage school of secular education and trusts. There is absolutely no interference in their affairs from the Central organisation.

Who is the source of jurisprudence, ulema? If not the same as above, do you have a committee of scholars?
Do you have madrassas and how do you train talebats and scholars?

Yes the reformists have experts in Islamic jurisprudence and ulemas well-versed in Bohra faith and Islamic history and Islamic scholars. In fact these are the people who could understand the deviations and innovations introduced by last two Dais and who have rebelled against them on religious ground. But the reformists are careful and they have not allowed them to form a class of their own. This is to say that they are not employed by the Jamats. They have their own source of income and they do not depend/survive on Bohras or Jamats for their livelihood. Under their guidance Dini Classes (Classes for religious education) are run by the Jamats in different cities and towns where future mullas and Aalims are trained.

How do you fund your operations...i.e. do you have sabeel?
How do you administer zakat?

In 1961 when the reform movement under leadership of Noman Contractor and Fazal Husain Zamindar reached to a peek, not possible for Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb to crush, he very cunningly called both of them and promised to hold an All India Dawoodi Bohra Convention to discuss and implements the demands put forwards by the reformists. The convention was held on 5th June 1961 at Bombay’s Saifee Masjid. Totally seven resolutions were passed in this convention including resolution of “Aqidat” (Faith) in Dai-ul-Mutlaq, Discipline, Constructing housing colonies, Establishing trusts, banks and institutions to help the small business, Establishing scholarship trusts for students etc. Then came the master-stroke. Raising finances to fulfil the above objective. A new tax “Sabeel” was introduced to be paid by each and every one who is a well-wisher of Dai, Dawat and the community. Later on it was announced that the Sabeel will be charged as per individual’s income. Then the Sabeel amount was charged arbitrary and made compulsory, recovered by stopping marriages and burial. Then they started Sabeel even on business establishments. So there was no concept of Sabeel even in our community before 1961.
Sayyadi Abdul Qadar Hakimuddin Saheb who was Mazoon-e-Dawat had introduced “Sabeel” strictly for repair and maintenance of old masjids in Burhanpur. The word he had coined from “Fi Sabilillah”. It was a very nominal amount (Rs. 1/- per family per year) and was voluntary even for the financially well off persons.
The reformist Jamats accepts Zakat and Fitra money given by people wilfully and truthfully distribute it among poor and needy Bohras without considering which side they belong. For meeting other expenses the Jamats appeal for funds and they do get them without compulsion.

How do you track community members and are they registered?

The reformists Jamats are registered as “Dawoodi Bohra Jamat”. Kothar’s Jamats (if registered) are registered as “Anjuman”. But reformist members are not registered. Any one is free to come to their meetings and conferences and take part in the elections provided he/she promises to abide by the general policies of the reform movement. There is no fee for becoming a member. Again it is a matter decided by each Jamat separately. The reformist do not track any member. They all come to various functions organised by Jamat or by the Central organisation on their own free will. There is no compulsion. There is no especial invitation. Only announcement and intimation to various centers.

How do you organise Hajj?

It was difficult for Dawoodi Bohras as for others to travel to Mecca and stay there for Haj during early days. Sir Adamji Peerbhoy realized this difficulty when he went on Haj for the first time in June 1882 with 125 Bohras from Kathyawar and Jamnagar. The people were required to come to Bombay to take a steamer for Mecca. There was no arrangement for Bohras to stay in Bombay and at Mecca, Medina and Karbala. So on his return from Haj he constructed a Sanatorium at Charni Road in Bombay and Bohra Rubats at all three places. Then in 1897 Seth Alibhai Karimji Alvi and Esaji Adamji established a Trust and named it as “Faiz-e-Husaini Charitable Trust with initial amount of Rs. 1,52,650/- by them and got it registered.
A memorandum submitted to the Governor of Bombay, Sir Leslie Wilson in 1933 states about this trust among many other cases of forceful usurpation of Community’s properties by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb. The text in brief is as follows :-
A trust known as Faiz-e-Husaini was founded by some honest and sincere good Bohras of Karachi some 35 years back. Due to enormous amount of good work and benefit the value of the trust increased to 35 lacs rupees in a short time. All along the trustees carried out their affairs quietly and peacefully without any interference from any of the Mullaji Sahebs. About 6 months ago the present Mullaji Sayedna Taher Saifuddin went to Karachi he sent his agents to the trustees asking them 1) first to include a clause in the Trust Deed that the trustees would not do any thing without first obtaining the permission of Mullaji. 2) On a vacancy the trustee would be appointed by Mullaji. With that The Sayedna Saheb started coercion but was advised by his lawyers that “his action would be illegal and he would be civilly and criminally liable for any interference in the trust matter as Trust Deed prohibited the interference of any one other than trustees.” He came back to Bombay and instructed his solicitors to draw up deed transferring all properties and funds of Faiz-e-Husaini in Karach, Bombay, Basra and Karbala to the Mullaji’s name. He then sent his emissaries to trustees in Karach in Karachi to sign the deed. The entire circumstances how trustees were compelled to sign the deed is most horrifying. Thus the biggest charitable institution by usurped by Sayedna Taher Saifuddin. The memorandum has asked the Governor of Bombay to inquire into the matter by refrence to the collector of Karachi and said that “Your Excellency will be horrified to know the tricks and dangerous games played by the Mullaji with Faiz-e-Husaini knowing fully well the law of the country.”
The same Faiz-e-Husaini today under the absolute control of Sayedna Saheb has become an exclusive tour and travel agent for Dawoodi Bohras. Its original office in Bombay has been shifted from Moriswala Musafarkhana building to Mazgaon after the raid by the Enforcement Directorate and exposure of big Hawala Racket though 204 illegal Bank drafts worth Rs. 27 lacs in Oct. 1984. Today because of the very stakes involved Faiz-e-Husaini has been given so much importance that it Bohras are made to believe as if there is no way to go to Haj, Umra and Ziyarat out side India except through Faiz and they ask “How do you organise Hajj?”

How do you organise inter-marriages, introductions since your society is small how do ensure your traditions and school of thought is not dispersed if youth marry outside the fold?

The reformists instituted “Husaini Marriage Information Bureau” in 1975 especially for Dawoodi Bohras from either side of divide but later made its services available for Muslims of other sects also. Marrying non-Muslims is left to individual’s choice as “There is no compulsion in religion.” The Bureau has nothing to do with it.