Ashura

[GreatBarrier]

AZ on what basis do you claim that I have been dis-respectful to SI ? I have not abused him and you are guilty of much dis-respect to Bohra and other religious leaders as evident to your many articles.

On this forum SI participates as contributor irrespective of age or stature..the contents of anyone discussion distinguishes one another.

I would rather you consider my specific argument and comment as I claim his analysis in his article is flawed and misleading unless you can put forward a counter argument.

[Al-Muizz]

Mubarak,

You have not answered my question........

1. DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE DAI-EL-MUTLAQ? Do you believe that while the Mustaqar Imam is in parda, the Dai is the representative of the Imam?

2. If you give your Misaaq to the Imam, but do not follow his Dai, then explain how you get your guidance? As you very well know the Ismailism philosophy is heirachial in nature. And Please don't tell me you read the Risails that other Dais wrote!

[Mubarak]

Mubarak,

You have not answered my question........

1. DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE DAI-EL-MUTLAQ? Do you believe that while the Mustaqar Imam is in parda, the Dai is the representative of the Imam?

2. If you give your Misaaq to the Imam, but do not follow his Dai, then explain how you get your guidance? As you very well know the Ismailism philosophy is heirachial in nature. And Please don't tell me you read the Risails that other Dais wrote!

Al-Muizz: 1. DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE DAI-EL-MUTLAQ?

Mubarak: Yes, till he is not going against the Fatimi Dawat principles and rules. There are ten doors of heaven:
1. Nabi
2. Vasi
3. Imam
4. Huzzat
5. Bab-ul-Abwab
6. Dai-al-Zazira
7. Dai-al-Balagh
8. Dai-al-Mutlaq
9. Mazoon
10. Mukasir

As per Fatimi Dawat, the ‘masoom’ (infallibles) are only Nabi, Vasi, Imam, Huzzat and Bab-ul-Abwab. Molana Salman Farsi (a.s.) was Bab-ul-Abwab of Molana Ali (a.s.).




Al-Muizz: Do you believe that while the Mustaqar Imam is in parda, the Dai is the representative of the Imam?

Mubarak: It depends on whom the Mustakar Imam has appointed, if he has appointed Nabi then Nabi will be the representative, example: Molana Ismail (a.s.) son of Prophet Ibrahim Khali’lillah was the Mustakar Imam and he appointed not Dai-al-Mutlaq but appointed Nabi as his representative - Molana Ishaq son of Prophet Ibrahim Khalil’lillah (a.s.).

Mustakar Imam Molana va Aaka Mustansir Billah (a.s.) appointed Sayyedi Aaka Baap Ji Fakhruddin Shaheed (Galiyakot, Rajasthan, India) as his representative with the post of Dai-al-Balagh and not Dai-al-Mutlaq.

Molana Aaka Imam Tayyeb (a.s.) has chosen his rep in the form of Dai-al-Mutlaq.

Thus, it depends on Mustakar Imam whom do he wish to appoint as his rep. and cannot be generalized that his rep will be only Dai-al-Mutlaq




Al-Muizz: 2. If you give your Misaaq to the Imam, but do not follow his Dai, then explain how you get your guidance?

Mubarak: Misaq is only for Mustakar Imam and not for any other office bearers. After Mustakar Imam Tayyeb (a.s.) went in seclusion Dawoodi Bohras mentor were their Dai-al-Mutlaq, till Molana va aaka Mohammed Badruddin (r.a.) all the Dai-al-Mutlaq have first practiced religion themselves and then they preached the same, they have sacrificed their lives for Dawoodi Bohras community – Mola’e Raj was minced because he unified Bohra community, Molana Musan ji Taj, Baroda was catapulted in big burning oil pan, Molana Qutub Khan Qutbuddin was beheaded… Whereas current leader Burhannuddin sahib and his coterie is characterless –

“Shaam, Shaam, Shaam” was the reply of Molana Imam Ali Zainul Abedeen (a.s.) when asked which was the most difficult time. And one reason of that was all ladies member in his group were without headscarf.

Varka bin Naufel told his sibling Molatina Khadeeja (a.s.) wife of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) that to test if Gibraeel was Angel or Satan – you request Mohammed (s.a.) to sit on your right thigh and ask Mohammed (s.a.) if he is still there or went. If he says, he is present then repeat same with your left thigh, if he again answer same then remove your headscarf and ask if he is there or went – now if Mohammed (s.a.) says that he went then understand Khadeeja that Gibraeel is an Angel otherwise Satan. People with character like Angel do not see women without headscarf and impossible to touch ‘gair mehram baira’.

In book Sansanikhez Hakaik, photos taken from Newspapers, shows that Yusuf Najmuddin (YN) shaking hand with ‘gair mehram baira’ Gori Mam (British ladies - before independence)! What example is he setting? What character is he practicing?

In magazine India Today there were photos published of Mazoon Khozema bhaisaheb enjoying swimming with semi-naked the then Miss India Nafisa Ali!!! What example is he setting? What character is he practicing?

Thus during the seclusion of Mustakar Imam the guidance will be taken from those Dai-al-Mutlaq who practiced high morale and character or from any other learned scholar or books which is in line with Fatimi Dawat teaching. (It is like - if there is no water available for ablution then do ‘Tai’yamum’, clean dust/mitti is everywhere available if you shake books or blanket then also some dust will come out. In absence of water, if one does Tai’yamum, then it will be accepted that one did bath and also ablution.)

For you information: When I say ‘Learned Scholar’, I mean only those people whose practice/faith is in the line of faith of Dawoodi Bohras. As per one elected member of Dawoodi Bohra Youth – Dr. Abbas Ali Alvi in the Wazhipoora Mosque, Boharwadi, Udaipur which is the place of single biggest gathering of Progressive Dawoodi Bohras during Moharram, in his Moharram speech said that Dr. Engineer Asghar Ali is the supporter of Aaisha daughter of Abubaker in the battle of Jamal. Which implies that Engineer Asghar Ali is enemy of Mola Ali (a.s.), which means by his action he is not Dawoodi Bohra i.e. he is not the scholar which will be referred for religious matters.

Engineer Asghar Ali sahib wrote Quran ‘tafseer’ with his own personal thoughts and named it “Quran ki Inklabi Tafseer”. ‘Inklab’ means that the existing is not perfect/outdated/not right and here is the NEW alternate which is otherwise. That infers what all ‘Tafseer’ are in existence coming from Mola Ali (a.s.), Molana Abdullah ibn Abbas (r.a.), all Fatimi Imams (a.s.) and all true Dai’s of Fatimi Dawat are ‘mazallah’ not perfect/outdated/not right and what Dr. Mr. Engineer Asghar says is better than all and is perfect and right!!! So when I say ‘learned scholar’ I do not mean people like Engineer Asghar Ali.

Dawoodi Bohra Ismailiya Shia is the best and only right faith, the pristine Islam and unfortunately two leaders Burhanuddin s/o Tahir Saifuddin and Engineer Asghar Ali are ‘zahils’ i.e. they are not knowledgeable i.e. they are ignorant – I will prove this contention next Sat/Sun and with mercy of Almighty Allah and vasila of Panjatan and Molatina Fatima (a.s.) progeny will also challenge to anyone who can counter my contention. Inshallah.



Al-Muizz: As you very well know the Ismailism philosophy is heirachial in nature. And Please don't tell me you read the Risails that other Dais wrote!

Mubarak: Where am I claiming that I have read all the Risalas that other Dais have written? Kindly point where?

[Hussain_KSA]

Mubarak

Please check your private Massage.

Thanks

[ghulam muhammed]

Excerpts from an interesting article on an islamic website:-

UNMASKING THE OTHER VILLAINS OF KARBALÂ

Retelling the tragedy of Karbalâ has traditionally been an important feature of Shî'ah spirituality. The passion plays of Iran and the Indian subcontinent, the literature, both prose and poetry, composed upon the subject of the martyrdom of Sayyidunâ Husayn radiyallâhu‘anhu and the general atmosphere of mourning that reigns amongst the Shî‘ah during the month of Muharram, all bear eloquent testimony to importance of that event in the Shî'ah calendar. To the Shî‘ah, ‘Âshurâ is probably the most important day of the year.However, it is regrettable that despite the huge amount of attention the subject of Karbalâ enjoys, the event is persistently portrayed as two-sided. It is always depicted as Husayn against Yazîd, Right rising up against Wrong, the Quest for Justice against the Forces of Oppression. Many an opportunist has even gone to the extent of super- imposing upon the event the theme of Shî‘ah against Ahl as-Sunnah.In this partial retelling that concentrates upon what actually happened at Karbalâ, and conveniently draws attention away from the other guilty party in the ‘Âshûrâ tragedy, lies another tragedy in itself. For while Husayn's martyrdom has been oft commemorated, and his physical opponents and killers identified, cursed and eliminated, no one has spared a moment's anger for those who deserted him at the crucial hour. It is these men in the shadows, who squarely deserve to be called the real villains of Karbalâ, upon whom this article seeks to cast light.

If today ‘Âshûrâ will be commemorated as a day of struggle and sacrifice, let it also be remembered as a day of treachery and desertion. When the names of Yazîd ibn Mu‘âwiyah, ‘Ubaydullâh ibn Ziyâd, ‘Umar ibn Sa‘d and Shamir ibn Dhil Jawshan are mentioned and curses invoked upon their memories, then let us not forget the treachery of the Shî‘ah of Kûfah. The time has long been due for the Shî‘ah to reintroduce into their ‘Âshûrâ ceremonies an aspect that was in fact part of the very first commemoration ceremony of the Tawwâbûn. That lost aspect is the admission of their own guilt, along with that of Ibn Ziyâd, Yazîd and others, in the shedding of the holy blood of Sayyidunâ Husayn ibn ‘Alî radiyallâhu ‘anhumâ.

[GreatBarrier]

That is why I have stated in my other responses it is probably better not to say Lanaat on As-habas of Sunni's ideology !

Shia's of Kufa are to blame as it seems Husain AS was betrayed by Shia's rather than Sunnis trying to discredit Islam, as the some Shia scriptures are trying to imply.

[ghulam muhammed]

The real tragedy of the Ummah is not that we are facing another Karbala in Iraq or Palestine today, but that there are too many Yazids and no Imam Husain among us. During this Muharram, as in years past, the sacrifices of the great Imam (ra) have been commemorated all over the world; even rulers in some Muslim countries participate in ceremonies to pay tribute to Imam Husain’s principled stand against injustice. Yet these very same rulers not only compromise with injustice but perpetrate it in their own societies daily. It is this hypocrisy that is at the root of much of the suffering of Muslims today. In the Qur’an, Allah challenges us: "O you who have committed yourselves to Allah, why do you say that which you do not practise? The worst thing in the sight of Allah is that you say but do not do" (61:2-3).

before we draw parallels between the contemporary problems of Muslims and the tragedy of Karbala, let us be clear about what Imam Husain’s sacrifice was about. He did not struggle for worldly gain or power; he was aware that if he gave in to the demands of Yazid, it would destroy Islam. He declared before both friends and foes: "If this Ummah is to be tried with a shepherd such as Yazid, then farewell to Islam." Imam Husain refused to give his allegiance to Yazid but did not plot in secret; his rejection of Yazid’s authority was open and aboveboard. He even went to Makkah to make a public declaration of what was afoot and how it would affect the Ummah of Islam, but he realized that the sanctity of the Haram would be violated by his blood being shed, so he left without even completing his Hajj. For him, Islamic principles were more important than his personal well-being. He died in a strange land after witnessing the murders of almost all his family and close companions; he preferred to die rather than compromise with dhulm and oppression. When asked to give allegiance to Yazid and save his life, he exclaimed: "A man like me cannot give allegiance to a man like Yazid!"

Such clarity of vision, purpose and commitment are lacking in the Muslims of today; this mainly is what has led to our sorry predicament. There is no shortage of sincere Muslims willing to make the hijrah (migration to Allah), but there are no Imam Husains to lead them. The Muslim world is dominated by Yazids who have pledged themselves to the modern-day Pharaohs.

Yazid and his men were militarily successful at Karbala, but how many Muslims celebrate his "triumph" today? Which Muslim in his right mind can say that Yazid was in the right? Imam Husain (ra) died, but ultimate victory was his. By refusing to surrender to Yazid, he made it difficult or impossible for future tyrants to justify their illegitimate rule by Islam.

Imam Husain (ra) had correctly diagnosed the problem confronting the Ummah in his time. It was a question of illegitimacy and the usurpation of power and authority by people who were totally unfitted to rule. He raised his voice against it; regrettably, there were not enough Muslims willing to give up their lives for Islam’s principles. Even those who did join the Imam eventually betrayed him. Yet this does not detract from his principled stand and his willingness to give up his own life in order not to lend weight to the corruption of Islamic principles. He was acting according to the Qur’anic command: "O you who have committed yourselves to Allah: shall I tell you of a deal that will save you from the torment of Hellfire? Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle in the way of Allah with your wealth and with your lives. That is better for you, if you but knew" (61:10-11). So Imam Husain (ra) struggled in the way of Allah not only with his own life but those of his family and close friends as well.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/bangash34.html

[Al Zulfiqar]

During this Muharram, as in years past, the sacrifices of the great Imam (ra) have been commemorated all over the world; even rulers in some Muslim countries participate in ceremonies to pay tribute to Imam Husain’s principled stand against injustice. Yet these very same rulers not only compromise with injustice but perpetrate it in their own societies daily. It is this hypocrisy that is at the root of much of the suffering of Muslims today.

foremost among those who commemorate the ten days of moharram are the bohras led by their syedna burhanuddin. yet that same syedna and his family capitalise on the faith and mourning spirit of the bohras to loot money, create divisions within muslims and enjoy the lifestyle of yazid, with opulent palaces, chartered flights, hunting trips, umpteen ziyafats and total disregard towards poor bohras and widows and orphans whom they do not spare from their taxes.

none of this so-called royal family are independently employed and have their own income, but live off the hard earned money of their followers whom they lecture on hussain, but conduct themselves in the manner of yazid. they bribe politicians, police, govt authorities and launder black money on a scale so huge that its beyond the imagination of most bohras. they have millions locked into secret bank accounts in switzerland and elsewhere and have invested billions in stocks, shares and bonds etc.

this hypocrisy is true to the adage: "bagal me choori, aur munh mein raam"... a whole generation of bohras have been systematically brainwashed into believing in their dai as a literal god who can do no wrong and their faith is being cruelly misused for personal enrichment. so much so that even any feeble attempt to open their eyes leads to abuse and hatred from the fanatics.

[humble_servant_us]

In ziyarat of I.Husain(as) as taught my I. Jaffer sadiq(as) the following sentences are recited

"Fa La'anallaahu Ummatan Qatalatka,
Wa La'anallaahu Ummatan Dhwalamatka,
Wa La'alanallaahu Ummatan Sami'at Bi Dhaalika Fa Radhwiyat Bihee."

Curse of Allah(swt) be upon those who killed you
Curse of Allah(swt) be upon those who wronged you
Curse of Allah(swt) be upon those who felt happy upon hearing about your dealth

Whether it be a shia, sunni or anyone else whoever falls in the above category is deemed to be cursed.

[Aarif]

Br. GM,

An excellent post by you.. Please accept my sincere appreciation of the same.. Honestly, today muslims have become synonymous with the word Terroists. Anyone and everyone can criticize muslims as terrorists and Islam as a religion propogating terrorism. In a scenario like this, it is very important to highlight and bring out the real meaning and values that formed the basis of sacrifice of Imam Husain and his companions. His war against Yazid was a real zihad. He could have very easily accepted the terms and conditions of Yazid and lived a happy selfish life but he did not do so. Today countries like Saudi, Egypt etc. are supporting Yazidiyat of Israel and USA just so that they can achieve their own selfish and self-centered goals. They have conveniently forgotten the Islamic values set by great martyrs from the family of prophet. Hence, as I mentioned in my first post when I started this thread that it is of prime importance for the followers of Islam to portray the true meaning of their religion to the rest of the world by imbibing some basic values in their own personal life which will help them to become better human beings and give them the strength to fight against modern day Yazids who are much more powerful than their predecessor...

[ghulam muhammed]

"O you who have committed yourselves to Allah, why do you say that which you do not practise? The worst thing in the sight of Allah is that you say but do not do" (61:2-3).

The above ayat in a nutshell speaks volumes about the conduct of Burhanudin saab and his gang and gives enough proof that Allah swt has sealed their fate and destiny which is nothing short of hellfire.

[mutmaeen]

MR MUBARAK

do u believe that the dais are guided by the ta eed and ilhaam from the imam uz zamaan in seclusion?
or atleast all the dais till the 50th acted as per ta eed and ilhaam of the imam uz zamaan?

[Mubarak]

Excerpts from an interesting article on an islamic website:-

UNMASKING THE OTHER VILLAINS OF KARBALÂ

Retelling the tragedy of Karbalâ has traditionally been an important feature of Shî'ah spirituality. The passion plays of Iran and the Indian subcontinent, the literature, both prose and poetry, composed upon the subject of the martyrdom of Sayyidunâ Husayn radiyallâhu‘anhu and the general atmosphere of mourning that reigns amongst the Shî‘ah during the month of Muharram, all bear eloquent testimony to importance of that event in the Shî'ah calendar. To the Shî‘ah, ‘Âshurâ is probably the most important day of the year.However, it is regrettable that despite the huge amount of attention the subject of Karbalâ enjoys, the event is persistently portrayed as two-sided. It is always depicted as Husayn against Yazîd, Right rising up against Wrong, the Quest for Justice against the Forces of Oppression. Many an opportunist has even gone to the extent of super- imposing upon the event the theme of Shî‘ah against Ahl as-Sunnah.In this partial retelling that concentrates upon what actually happened at Karbalâ, and conveniently draws attention away from the other guilty party in the ‘Âshûrâ tragedy, lies another tragedy in itself. For while Husayn's martyrdom has been oft commemorated, and his physical opponents and killers identified, cursed and eliminated, no one has spared a moment's anger for those who deserted him at the crucial hour. It is these men in the shadows, who squarely deserve to be called the real villains of Karbalâ, upon whom this article seeks to cast light.

If today ‘Âshûrâ will be commemorated as a day of struggle and sacrifice, let it also be remembered as a day of treachery and desertion. When the names of Yazîd ibn Mu‘âwiyah, ‘Ubaydullâh ibn Ziyâd, ‘Umar ibn Sa‘d and Shamir ibn Dhil Jawshan are mentioned and curses invoked upon their memories, then let us not forget the treachery of the Shî‘ah of Kûfah. The time has long been due for the Shî‘ah to reintroduce into their ‘Âshûrâ ceremonies an aspect that was in fact part of the very first commemoration ceremony of the Tawwâbûn. That lost aspect is the admission of their own guilt, along with that of Ibn Ziyâd, Yazîd and others, in the shedding of the holy blood of Sayyidunâ Husayn ibn ‘Alî radiyallâhu ‘anhumâ.

Ghulam Mohammad: UNMASKING THE OTHER VILLAINS OF KARBALÂ

Mubarak: UNMASKING THE REAL VILLAINS OF KARBALA


Dear Brother Ghulam Mohammed sahib,

Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.) was neither murdered in Karbala nor was Sunni leader Yazeed was his murderer except in physical form. In reality Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.) was murdered in Saqifa, where Sunni Neta Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman instead of being concerned about the burial of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) body were engaged in plotting how to steal Prophet Mohammed successor right from Mola Ali (a.s.). And by the same token Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.) was murdered by the participants of the Saqifa conspiracy – your neta Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman. This is the unmasking of the real villains of Karbala.

Best regards,

[ghulam muhammed]

Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.) was murdered by the participants of the Saqifa conspiracy – your neta Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman. This is the unmasking of the real villains of Karbala.

Dear Respected Janaab Mubarakbhai,

Irrespective of the subject and irrespective of the context, your school of AARIIS (Ahmad Ali Raj Institue of Islamic Studies) only teaches you to spit venom and hatred against the 3 Khalifas which is clearly visible from your tone. Brother I pity you and hence allow you to remove as much venom as possible because if it remains in your system then it will unneccessarily kill you so go on with your rhetoric, distorted history and selective fabricated hadiths which justifies your agenda which is to spread hatred and divide the ummah. Even though the post was to highlight the misdeeds of the kufans you refuse to touch the subject of the real BETRAYALS i.e. the shia of kufa and hence I presume that you must be having some kind of an ancestorial or mental bond with them.

Anyway you have confirmed that the REAL villians of Karbala were not only the shias of kufa but are still very much present in todays world also and just like the yazidi sect there still remains a HAASID-E-RASUL and HAASID-E-HUSSAIN sect which has its roots in kufa. Imam Hussain a.s. gave shahadat so that 'Islam zinda ho' but people like you are bent upon changing the slogan to 'Islam barbaad ho' (Nauzubillah), this reminds one of the bohra slogan 'Live like Ali, Die like Hussain' which has been changed to 'Live like Burhanudin and die like Taher Saidudin'.. Thanks for throwing more light on this SECT and admitting that you are one of its active member.

[Mubarak]

Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.) was murdered by the participants of the Saqifa conspiracy – your neta Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman. This is the unmasking of the real villains of Karbala.

Dear Respected Janaab Mubarakbhai,

Irrespective of the subject and irrespective of the context, your school of AARIIS (Ahmad Ali Raj Institue of Islamic Studies) only teaches you to spit venom and hatred against the 3 Khalifas which is clearly visible from your tone. Brother I pity you and hence allow you to remove as much venom as possible because if it remains in your system then it will unneccessarily kill you so go on with your rhetoric, distorted history and selective fabricated hadiths which justifies your agenda which is to spread hatred and divide the ummah. Even though the post was to highlight the misdeeds of the kufans you refuse to touch the subject of the real BETRAYALS i.e. the shia of kufa and hence I presume that you must be having some kind of an ancestorial or mental bond with them.

Anyway you have confirmed that the REAL villians of Karbala were not only the shias of kufa but are still very much present in todays world also and just like the yazidi sect there still remains a HAASID-E-RASUL and HAASID-E-HUSSAIN sect which has its roots in kufa. Imam Hussain a.s. gave shahadat so that 'Islam zinda ho' but people like you are bent upon changing the slogan to 'Islam barbaad ho' (Nauzubillah), this reminds one of the bohra slogan 'Live like Ali, Die like Hussain' which has been changed to 'Live like Burhanudin and die like Taher Saidudin'.. Thanks for throwing more light on this SECT and admitting that you are one of its active member.

Ghulam Muhammed to Mubarak (directly/indirectly)

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=270
Ghulam Muhammed: …I have given my reasons for not continuing a dialogue with him…Let him go on continuing barking for the rest of his life…

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=240
Ghulam Muhammed: …I dont feel that you deserve a response. "Jaahil ka jawab khamoshi hai".


Dear Brother Ghulam Muhammed,

In your earlier post you have said to me ‘Jaahil’ and my post as ‘barking’ (which implies you are saying me that I am a dog) and you categorically declared not to response to me – but you are responding my post which mean you are NOT keeping your words! That means you are not a man of words, are you?



Ghulam Muhammed: … 'Live like Burhanudin and die like Taher Saidudin'.. Thanks for throwing more light on this SECT and admitting that you are one of its active member.
Mubarak: Can you prove where am I ‘ADMITTING’ that I belong to club ‘'Live like Burhanudin and die like Taher Saidudin'?



Ghulam Muhammed: ..you to spit venom and hatred against the 3 Khalifas …
Mubarak: My saying that the three caliphs who conspired in Sakifa to steal Prophet Mohamed (s.a.) successor right from Mola Ali (a.s.) are indeed murderer of Molana Imam Hussain (a.s.) and he was murdered in Sakifa and not in Karbala - you are classifying this as ‘spitting venom’ and as ‘Islam Barbad’. What will you classify to Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) saying where he implicitly declares Lanat on your neta Shri Abubaker and Shri Umar?

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=300
Porus:
… must conclude that Daaim (Daim-ul-Islam) makes the following point - … Prophet had said that those who did not join Usama or linger behind would have Allah's laanat on them. Both Abu Bakr and Umar did not approve of the leadership of Usama, who was appointed by the Prophet. Both Abu Bakr and Umar were placed under the command of Usama. Thus the two did not follow Allah's command in ayat 59:7. And they lingered behind in the Syrian expedition. Hence, although Prophet did not explicitly invoke laanat on Abu Bakr and Umar, he implicitly did.

Ghulam Muhammed bhai, in post of Porus (refer above paragraph) your Sunni Neta Shri Abubaker and Shri Umar are covered – as per most authentic book Daim-ul-Islam Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) implicitly sending Lanat on your neta Shri Abubaker and Shri Umar. Below mentioned is the character and haal-chaal of your third Sunni neta Shri Usman in the words of bhai Saifuddin Insaf:

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 01&start=0
Saifuddin Insaf:
…There were several reasons of people’s dislike of and opposition to Hazrat Usman. The few relevant ones can be listed as follows:-

1) He favoured his relatives and distributed huge wealth from public treasury among them. Like he gave away fifteen thousand Dirham to Marwan-bin-Al-Hakam his secretary and fifty thousand dirham to Abdulla-bin-Saad, his nephew. He distributed money so generously among his near and dear ones that he was called “Usman Gani” (the Generous Usman).
2) He made selfish and evil-minded man, Marwan-bin-Al-Hakim his secretary.
3) He appointed his nephew, Abdullah-bin-Saad, governor (Amil) of Egypt knowing fully well that he was a murderer, arrogant and mischief-maker, who created mischief which ultimately caused Hazrat Usman’s death.
4) He prayed four rakats of Qasar namaz at Mana while going for Hajj which was contrary to the practice of the Holy Prophet.
5) He lost the Mohre-Nabuwwat (a ring of the Holy Prophet which had his seal on it, to be put on official documents).
6) He gave absolutely free hand to Syrian governor, Moavia son of a father like Abu-Sufian who was staunch enemy of the Holy Prophet and mother like Hind, who went in the battlefield of Badar removed the heart of Hazrat Hamza from his dead body and chewed it up. Going against the basic principle of simplicity of Islam Mavia built splendid palaces, his own army and started a life of luxury and rolled backed to a life of Jahiliyah existed before Islam. He made people’s life miserable.
6) One of the Prophet’s most trusted companions, Hazrat Abuzar-Gaffari was very critical of Moavia’s un-Islamic life style. He used to recite certain chapters of Qura’n openly in Amir Moavia’s court and used to warn Movia in public about his wrong-doings. Hazrat Usman made a grave mistake and called him back. He then sent Hazrat Abuzar-Gaffari to a deserted place where he died in utter poverty. Thus the people in Arabia in general got disgusted with Hazrat Usman’s policies. People from Egyp, Koofa, Basara etc. started agitating against him. He some how pacified them by tendering a public apology.

Best regards,

Mubarak

[mutmaeen]

mr mubarak

u have not responded to my question to u regarding a dai acting as per the ta eed and ilhaam from imam uz zaman

[ghulam muhammed]

Janab Mubarakbhai,

To summarise your points I would only like to state that what you have been doing all along is that you encroach on any and every subject of discussion and zero down to spitting venom on the 3 khalifas. This way you act just like the ismaili/wahabi section on this forum who come down heavily on only one point and that is to spread hatred amongst each other. You too hijack every topic of discussion to prove that the sahabas were wrong and boast of your beliefs. Your arguments are purely based only on certain literatures and hadiths which are cleverly manipulated by various sectarion leaders and which totally reject a rational and logical point of view. There are hundreds of hadiths which can easily counter your hadiths but you will refuse to accept them only because you are taught to believe what YOUR sectarion leaders want you to believe.

In your endeavour to highlight the greatness of Moula Ali a.s. you choose a path which speaks less of His greatness but more of the so called created opposite party's flaws which are highly questionable. Instead of WASTING your time in collecting literatures and hadiths which provide you with the ammunition to fire on your enemies it would be better if you INVESTED the same time in collecting literature/hadiths which shows the greatness of Moula Ali a.s. The great Moula Ali a.s. is not 'mohtaaj' of your fabricated hadiths to prove His abilities and Iman on the deen of Rasul Allah s.a.w. and He doesnt need to highlight the flaws of certain sections to prove His rightousness. He in Himself is the greatest of all after our Prophet Rasul Allah s.a.w.

YOUR SILENCE ON THE MISDEEDS OF THE SHIA OF KUFA SMELLS OF A CONSPIRACY THEORY BETWEEN YOU AND THEM AND IF NOT THEN KINDLY EXPLAIN AS TO WHY THERE IS HARDLY ANY MENTION OF THE 'REAL' CAUSE OF SHAHADAT WHICH IS THE BETRAYAL OF THE KUFANS AND WHY YOUR LAANATS ARE RESTRICTED TO ONLY THE SAHABAS AND NOT TO THE SHIA OF KUFA ?

Better restrict yourself to the relevance of the battle of Karbala and dont derail the issue. Your venom on the 3 Khalifas can be spilled on other threads so spare this thread as your tool for breaking the ummah because that is the main cause for the war in Karbala and shahadat of Imam Hussain a.s.

[S. Insaf]

Not taking any side - Is cursing today Hazrat Aisha (the wife of the holy Prophet), Hazrat Abu-Bakar Siddiq (the father in-law and yar-gar of the holy Prophet), Hazrat Umar Farooq (the companion and son-in-law of the holy Prophet) not questioning the very Wisdom of the holy Prophet?

[ghulam muhammed]

Is cursing today Hazrat Aisha (the wife of the holy Prophet), Hazrat Abu-Bakar Siddiq (the father in-law of the holy Prophet), Hazrat Umar Farooq (companion and son-in-law of the holy Prophet) not questioning the Wisdom of holy Prophet's wisdom?

The wisdom of certain people on this forum is restricted only upto the knowledge imparted to them from questionable hadiths and distorted history and are not based on the faith and wisdom of Rasul Allah s.a.w. and Panjatan pak a.s. due to which one wonders whether their recitation of the Holy Kalima is only a lip service to fool the people and Allah swt.

When the Hypocrites come to thee they say "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Apostle of Allah."
Yea Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Apostle and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars. (Al-Quran 63.1)
In other words, Allah is bearing witness that even though a MUNAFIQ (hypocrite) will recite the Kalima Shahadah, but still Allah bears witness that they are liars. Why? Because they recite only with their tongues and not with their hearts.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Not taking any side - Is cursing today Hazrat Aisha (the wife of the holy Prophet), Hazrat Abu-Bakar Siddiq (the father in-law and yar-gar of the holy Prophet), Hazrat Umar Farooq (the companion and son-in-law of the holy Prophet) not questioning the very Wisdom of the holy Prophet?

any sensible person will ask this very same question. if the prophet knew about things and could predict the way history would shape out after his death, how come he couldnt see what would happen re: the question of succession?
either history and the hadiths are wrong, or the prophet's judgement of people was wrong. what is it?

in any case, bro. mubarak, let us assume that you have proved yr point. let us also assume that bro. gm will not apologise for the wrongdoings of the first 3 khalifas and for bibi ayesha, as surely the sunnis of today will not, then what next?

should we shias continue cursing the sunnis and the sunnis keep calling the shia's as kafirs? you are a wise and learned man, what is yr decision? if a family of brothers keeps fighting, shouldnt there be some point when they decide to leave aside their enmity and unite once again?

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Al Zulfiqar,

I agree with you that there is no point in continuing the endless fight over an event which has purpotedly taken place a thousand years ago. This is an emotive issue which has been challenged by the warring parties vehemently. It is nothing short of an egoistic issue because each one wants to prove that he is above the other and for which he takes recourse to the endless number of readily available fabricated hadiths and islamic literature. Is one's faith in Moula Ali a.s. so weak that it requires one to resort to brickbating and mudslinging on others ? Irrespective of the issue of khilafat, Moula Ali a.s. remains a figure to be reverred upon and to be emanulated and to be proud of. Hence lets follow the teachings and principles as set down by Him and Imam Hussain a.s. rather then get carried away by false stories duly spread by the enemies of Islam.

[ghulam muhammed]

any sensible person will ask this very same question. if the prophet knew about things and could predict the way history would shape out after his death, how come he couldnt see what would happen re: the question of succession?

Iam pasting below an article downloaded from the net which will clear your doubts to some extent:-

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) took the earliest opportunity to build his mosque at Madinah in 1 A.H. He invited all to this public function. They comprised of Jews of the tribes of Bani Nadir and Bani Quraizah, the local tribes of Aws and Khasraj in addition to the two groups of Muslims i.e. the Muhajirs (the Muslims from Mecca) and the Ansars, the Muslim converts of Madinah.

At this public function Muhammad minced no words in making Allah's emphatic decision well known to the public.

The Holy Prophet personally laid the foundation stone of this mosque known as Masjid-e-Nabavi. Beside it he instructed Abu Bakr to place a stone and affix the same. When this was done, he commanded Omar to place a stone beside Abu Bakr's and to affix it. After that he ordered Osman to place a stone besides Omar's stone and to affix it. Thereupon the Holy Prophet Muhammad announced publicly before the entire gathering :

a) Abu Bakr would be the first Khalifa of Islam
b) Omar would be the second Khalifa of Islam
c) Osman would be the third Khalifa of Islam

The people present there asked who would be the next Khalifa ? The Prophet replied that it would be Ali the leader of the Saints (p. l16, Vol. 2, Tafrihul Azkia Fil Ahwal Ul Anbia, also p. 12 of Mojezat-e-Muhammadia by Mufti EnAyatullah published by Hajee Malik Din Muhammad & Sons, Lahore, 1939).

This famous Hadith of Masjid-e-Navabi has made it absolutely clear as to who would be the temporal heads of the State of Islam founded by Holy Prophet Muhammad. This Khalifat would last for 30 years after his departure from earthly life (p. 13, Mojezat-e-Muhammadia). After that it would become a kingship under the control of worldly rulers. The spiritual religious heads would however continue from Ali.

[ghulam muhammed]

A lesson from Quran that is to be understood is this. That Muslims should let Allah do what he does and that Muslims should do what Allah has commanded them to do.

In common usage amongst some Muslims, the word "laanat" is used as a form of abuse, a practice condemned by Allah in Quran. (Remember 'waylul li-kulli humazatil lumazah'?)

Whereas, Quran generally talks about 'laanat' it means 'rejection' of the ways of the kuffar and the latter's removal from Allah's grace on the day of Judgement.

When Allah invokes laanat on Kuffar, that does not give Muslims a command to do likewise. That encroaches on Allah's privilege, a clear case of arrogance. Only Allah can judge who to reject.

Those who take over Allah's exclusive priveleges are bigots, who have caused so much grief to both Muslims and non-Muslims alike in today's world.

Contrast this with ayat 33:56, where Allah clearly commands Mumineen to invoke Salawaat and Salaams on the Prophet. Allah does not just say that Allah blesses Prophet but extends the command to all.

There is no ayat in the Quran which asks Muslims to invoke 'laanat' on anyone. In any case, that would be against the spirit of the Quran.

[SBM]

"Under the leadership of Janab Amil Saheb, Shk Moizbhai Vajihi, a Vaaz Mubarak Talaqqi Workshop was held in Singapore on Saturday, 5th Safar, for mumineen who attended Ashara Mubaraka in Mombasa to reflect on the nooraani bayaan and develop action plans to initiate positive change in their lives. The workshop was very well-attended and lasted for more than 4 hours. Janab Amil Saheb, Bhabhi Saheba and 4 Asateza of Al Jamea tus Saifiyah, facilitated the session. During the session, mumineen worked in groups to reflect on and discuss insights and learnings from the Vaaz Mubarak based on themes identified. The outcome of the workshop was a heightened sense among participants of shukur for the nemat and nawazish that had been bestowed on them, and of the need to express shukur through deeds and positive change as well as a neeyat to attend Ashara Mubaraka again next year."]READ; LEARNED HOW TO BECOME MORE SUBSERVIENT

[Al Zulfiqar]

bhai oma,

if u talk to the singapore amil and any other amils and abdesyednas around the world, please wish them 'shahadat mubarak' most heartily on behalf of great barrier and other fidayeen of syedna.

thanks.