Mazoon Saheb

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Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Dar.Bohra on Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:12 pm

In East Africa we were forbidden to mentioned his name. We were ordered to remove his photographs/portraits from our homes/madrassah/kabrastan/mosque. Those who kept his photos were asked to give "misaaq" again. He once visited East Africa then never to be seen again. Now, I have noticed that he is given more prominence. In all the photos, I dont see Badru Jamalee and Mowlana's sons. Whats happening? Any ideas?. Is he going to be a new sultan? :roll:
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:05 am

In terms of governance, if the Dai is sick than Mazoon takes the workings of the community but that does not mean he is the next Dai , that can only happen if the NASS is onto him .
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Dar.Bohra on Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:43 am

What if he goes into coma or becomes mentaly incapacited? and the nass is not done?
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Aleem on Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:14 am

Dar.Bohra wrote:What if he goes into coma or becomes mentaly incapacited? and the nass is not done?



The NASS must surely have been done - however not made public. It would have been done behind closed doors with endorsements from lawyers and/or legal council. Can you imagine the dissent and rifts that would happen today if there was already a known sucessor ?
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:36 pm

Why do you think Nass must have been done?
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Dar.Bohra on Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:13 pm

This is were the problem is! I was always told that Mowla knows before he dies and then does the naas. There is also a debate about 49th Dai, He died before doing naas. Mowlana is 98 years old (marshallah). He could have stoke any time (God Forbid). If that happenes to one. He will not be able to speak and his brain loses cognitive ability. Do we have a constitution?
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:30 am

Ndugu Dar Bohra, Mbona unauliza swali kama hiwo, kama una imani lazima ufikiri kwamba Imam Zamaan ndiyo atamwambia Syedna kufanya Naas wakati anapo taka , hiyo mambo ya 49th Dai hatujui kwa sababa imekuwa miaka nyingi sana.

Sorry brothe practicing my swahili.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Dar.Bohra on Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:43 am

Dear East Africawalla,

I am sure there are better places for you to practice your swahili!. I am fortunate that I do speak Swahili but some of us can not understand.

You have said that when Imam tells him to do naas he will do the nass. Your sentence then raises the question. If he is so powerfull then why is he asking his followers to pray for him? Mowlana is just a normal person. He is like you and me. He eats and drinks like you. He can not communicate with GOD or Imam!. He can't even predict his future!.

If you have access to books then read about Prophet Solomon/Suleiman(PBUH). He did not also know when he was going to die and after his death the jinns continued to work in the belief that he is alive. When the "worm" chewed his staff and when he fell down then they realised that had they "known the unseen" they would not have toiled. His death became qurans ayat.

I will tell you another story. One of my cousins got married. The marriage was hastily arranged because Mowlana was in Dar and some of us consider a great "barakat" if mowlana does the nikah. Guess what happened!. You are right, the marriage ended in divorce. If Mowlana has known the future of them then why the hell did he perform nikah?

My fellow Bohoras, please be wise, mowlana is just a figure head. He can't do anything for you. It's you and your ALLAH
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:57 am

Thats where we differ mate, you believe in him as just a head of state not as a spiritual head as we do, Imam Zamaan is always with Dai el Mutalak and guides him.

About your cousin's marriage failing , Syedna will have done the Nikaah with best intentions if it fails its not his fault.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby SAJJAD on Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:17 pm

East African is a product of kothar. He is so cooked up with his mola (mula’s) brainwashed teachings, that he doesn’t see anything wrong with burhanuddin and his kothar’s evil practices.

Also they brainwash people regarding fairy tale stories like mola has connection with Imam, he talks to him, follow his orders to collect more money, blah... blah... blah... etc. – that is all crap to control the masses and fool them. :twisted:
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Dar.Bohra on Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:12 pm

To East Africawalla,

This is were we will stop. There is a saying that "you can convince a man against his will".

Just before I go, I would like to tell you about Yusuf Pirbhai, When mowlana came to Dar in 1968 he stayed in Yusuf Pirbhai's house before he was deported. Today Yusuf Pirbhai is broke ( You may want to ask the question why?). When mowlana first came to Nairobi (1985) Yusuf Pirbhai went to do qadambosi. He was treated just like any other bohras with no recognition or thank you. This is what you get. In swahil they say "shukurani ya punda ni mateke". Donkeys, thank you is his kick.

If you have money today they will be your friends. If you dont have money tomorrow, they will kick you in your ass. BE CAREFUL
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby spicyady on Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:07 pm

SAYEDNA MOHAMMED BURHANUDDIN ZINDABAD
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Safiuddin on Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:24 pm

What I want to know is did Spicylady cut and paste all of the above or did she write it all out like in elementary school?
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby like_minded on Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:59 am

If he is so powerfull then why is he asking his followers to pray for him?

Indeed a very valid point made by dar.

If only an average bohri could understand this simple fact., But ... NO!!! he wont!! How can he question whats being followed?? Maybe, he's too lazy to question especially when the script is offered on a platter, why waste energy... just swallow... live in illusions and fantasies, because reality bites, just not ready to confront it... scared that it might expose you.

I happened to ask one of my acquaintances (who is a regular masjid goer and who of late has been actively involved in the so-called functions and prayers hosted to enhance the life of Syedna) Why are you guys doing all this? I mean, death is nature, If one has to go.. he has to go... how can you expect him to live forever, You are born to die, why can't you all simply accept this fact??? His reaction was something which I cannot put in words, that look he gave me... My my... I thought my end was near.. :mrgreen: He simply couldn't comprehend... then as usual, he started abusing me.. calling me all sorts of names.., I had a hearty laugh!!

What I understand by this is that these guys just aren't ready to look at themselves in the mirror... They are so scared to lose their (false) comfort.. which they so dearly cling.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:17 am

Dar Bohra,

Yusuf Pirbhai's case happens in any society, if you have money you are a hero otherwise you are a chakram

But than a lot of this so called religious people try to get recognition within the community by trying to pay to get status and they act differently when they have status but try to act nice guys after they have got kicked.

I can name a lot of this guys in Tanzania.

As well as the people who were in the highrachy in 1968 will have changed in 1985 .
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Dar.Bohra on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:38 pm

East Africawalla wrote:Dar Bohra,

But than a lot of this so called religious people try to get recognition within the community by trying to pay to get status and they act differently when they have status but try to act nice guys after they have got kicked.
.


This is exactly what I am trying to say. In our community you can become sheikh even if you have no knowledge. If you pay Mowla (US Dollars). He will bestow on you title of sheikh. It is imaterial today whether you are pious or educated. If you have no money you are not their friend. If you have money they will like you. Once you don't pay they will kick you out. Every dog has his days. There are signs for you to observe. ALLAH has given you brains use it.

There is a book by George Orwell called ANIMAL FARM. Read it!
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:50 pm

East Africawalla wrote:Thats where we differ mate, you believe in him as just a head of state not as a spiritual head as we do, Imam Zamaan is always with Dai el Mutalak and guides him. .


have u read bro, Insaf's quote on another thread where under oath, the ex syedna taher saifuddin in the burhanpur durgah case has clearly stated that the concept of a hidden imam is merely an imaginary concept? these court transcripts are available to any ordinary layman incl. yrself. thus the matter of communicating with this imaginary concept and receiving guidance from him, falls under the realm of insanity or a childlike belief in monsters under the bed or superman.

when yr syedna was proven to be a liar and cheat in court and fined for it, u still persist in yr belief that divine guidance would come to a fraud? either allah has become incompetent in judging his subjects or you have become mad. choose one of the two.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby ghulam muhammed on Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:17 pm

During Taher Saifudin saab's era there used to be a very wealthy bohra family residing at nagdevi street (Iam not very sure about the name but I think it was 'Macheswala') whose head was a fanatic to the chore. His residence was a very plush building in nagdevi st wherein there was one beautifully furnished room having priceless antiques and other artifacts which was exclusively reserved for Taher Saifudin saab and which remained locked throughout the year but would be open only for Taher Saifudin saab during his ziafat and the number of ziafats were endless. This gentleman's fanatism can be guaged from the fact that on every "pehli taarik" (first day of every month) he used to do salaams to each and every individual in Saifee Mahal, right from the watchman to the dai.

As time passed by he suffered heavy losses in business and he almost became a pauper. He became critically ill due to tension and ultimately died. His last wish was to get himself buried in nariyalwadi kabrastan which was and still is a premium location for the dead. His son went to the late mukasir Salehbhai Saifiudin with his father's last wish but he was in for a rude shock because the mukasir asked for a hefty amount which was out of reach for the poor son and due to which he was humiliated and insulted in badri mahal. The son then ultimately went to saifee mahal to meet Taher Saifudin saab who suddenly became inaccessable but after endless pleas he was allowed to meet him. The son was bursting in tears and he plainly told Taher Saifudin saab that why do you deprive my father a piece of land for his burial as per his last wish knowing fully well that he has showered a vast portion of his wealth on you during his lifetime and that the reason for not fulfilling my father's last wish is my incapability of shelling out a hefty sum due to my present financial status. The conversation took place in full public view due to which Taher Saifudin saab was ultimately forced to part with a piece of land in nariyalwadi for the gentleman's burial.

This is the state of bohras and as there is a saying "Chadta suraj ne to badha puje chhe, doobta suraj ne koi nahi".
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby ghulam muhammed on Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:20 pm

Welcome aboard Bro Al Zulfiqar !!!!!!!!
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:38 pm

thanks bro. ghulam.

i know of many, many instances where once rich bohras who having showered lakhs of rupeees on the syedna and his father, when they became poor were treated like used toilet paper. when they complained, stories were cruelly circulated that this once devout bohra had become poor due to..'ena imaan ma khot thay gayi hati' .

so every rich bohra who earns haraam ni kamai and lends his posterior is an 'imaani bohra', but every poor bohra who even if he and his family kiss the maula's photo ten times a day and takes his mannats, is a 'be-imaani bohra jena aqeeda ma khot chhe'...
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby ozmujaheed on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:49 pm

What was Mazoom's or Mukasir's role in these recent events ?

Is he really a deputy Diai or the greddy princes rule the Mahal, literraly ?

Any comments will be appreciated
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:32 am

OZ,

Recently in terms of religious activities the Mazoon and Mukasir have been taking a leading role.

In terms of governance, if the Dai is sick than Mazoon takes the workings of the community but that does not mean he is the next Dai , that can only happen if the NASS is onto him
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby ghulam muhammed on Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:00 pm

East Africawalla wrote:Recently in terms of religious activities the Mazoon and Mukasir have been taking a leading role.


What leading role are they playing ? Could you specify atleast a few of it. The leading players are only the shahzadas, amils and kothar administration which issues innovative farmaans day in and day out.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:09 pm

East Africawalla wrote:OZ,

that can only happen if the NASS is onto him


i fully support the above statement as i have not yet given permision to the present syedna to declare nass on anyone.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:11 pm

Zulfikar, are you taking the mantle of Imam Zamaan for progressives as you think you have the authority to give permission for Nass, if you had a choice who would you like the Nass to be given to?
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:08 pm

East Africawalla wrote:Zulfikar, are you taking the mantle of Imam Zamaan for progressives as you think you have the authority to give permission for Nass, if you had a choice who would you like the Nass to be given to?


the imamuzaman does not reply to non-muslims like u.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby ozmujaheed on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:10 pm

AZ and EA to move from Mazoom to interim Diai he needs another Naas ? This is worse then India post office beuracracy.

Can some one state that during his interim role he started direct communication with Imamu-Zaman ? I would haee thought so because 1 million duas, goat sacrifice credits were being funnelled and one would not want them queing up crowding up is Saifee Mahal waiting for Sayedna to resume...

Unless the transactions are using modern integration channals where they do not need to be endorsed by a Diai sequentially in office on the earth ?

All this time we were told th e world would end when there is no Diai onb the planet, therefore the only spin we can have is while in ICU the Diai mind was in constant communication with Imam and the world had order and safe. All this waffle is to make the readers aware what a crap setup Kothar have that is more BS and more ineffective. No one has responded whether Mazoom did anything concrete in the 25 days Sayedna was in hospital, exlcuding sitting on gadhali, he is a fake as the whole establishment.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby jawanmardan on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:37 pm

Nass may have been conferred through a Will and Testament, perhaps many years ago. Is that at all possible?
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:28 pm

jawanmardan and oz,

i repeat that as the imamuzzaman, i have not yet given any permission or clear signal to syedna to do nass on anyone. i was also not in communication with the bohra syedna during his recent illness as his brain was in deep coma. his wirings are still muddled and the signal keeps breaking up.

whoever is the next syedna with my permission will be selected not only on the basis of nas but also nasbandi. ie. he shud have no children. i have decided to end this dynasty by default.
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Re: Mazoon Saheb

Unread postby East Africawalla on Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:50 am

Zulfikar, Why dont you do Nass on yourself than you just take over , no need for dai and you can run a community of one yourself with Sajad as your mazoon and Aussie guy as your mukasir
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