Dawoodi Bohra Forum

I think the kothar should use simple language which the average person can understand. For example on the one hand the kothar asks for sabil which in effect is actually fe sabilillah(give what one can in the name of allah)secondly they should completely avoid using the word wajebaat. For this means mandatory requirement(wajib) and as pointed out above it is not so. Please stop using the word wajebaat and use fe sabilillah give what ever you can in the name of Allah. After all the so called kothar is a non profit charitable institution to begin with,then why use fancy words to confuse the mumin.

They use the first principle of the priestly class.
"If you can't convince, confuse!"
This and they have realised a long time back that they can't convince anybody by logic, so they use the tools of the mafia.
Quoting Mario Puzo in the Godfather, they can only
"Make him an offer, he can't refuse."

The latest in this is replacing "Qard-e-Hasnah with MUSSAWWAT.

if they use simple language how will they rob the bohras .THIS is like the salesman if you use big words you have bought it

qaradan hasana and muuwasat are two different things altogether-qaradan hasana implies giving loans which are repaid while muwasat is a grant which need not be paid back-the confusion is in ur mind and not in the jargon

omabharti wrote:The latest in this is replacing "Qard-e-Hasnah with MUSSAWWAT.

Omabharti Monkey....

U dont even know the words properly forget abt the meaning and confusion.....dont open ur guttery mouth on such noble acts like Qarzan Hasanah and Muwasaat....

Qardan Hasanah schemes all over the world in the community hav helped bohras to flourish and its moulas ahsaan that every year millions are funded to the various schemes to help bohras flourish in there business and the barakat of this scheme is seen in mumins life today......In ur evil desire to curse our beloved moula (Nauzobillah) dont spoil such a noble act

May Allah give long and healthy life to our beloved moula (TUS)

Aqa Mola ZOMBIE and the other M----n
Qarde Hasanh in real Islamic teaching does not require any guarantees likes taking gold and asking to provide post dated Checks (an illegal act in USA). What is Kothari Goons and MORONS like you are promoting is an interest free loan with guarantees from human being rather than Allah and Allah is supposed to be the guarantor.
Once the Quarede Hasanah is repaid(even though it interest free but the wajebaats and bribes to Aamil makes it more like Mafia loan sharking then Quarde Hasanah)
WHY DOES KOTHAR NEEDS ANY GUARANTEES AND GOLD FROM THE NEEDY AS COLLATERAL WHEN THEY HAVE SO MUCH MONEY THEMSELVES.

the kothar does not disburse the loans-its done by the local jamaats-Allah is the gurantor for everything even your health-dont see the doc the next time u fall ill-constructive criticism is welcome but what you are engaging in is criticising for criticisms sake-it is not practical to dole out loans without a repayment mechanism for the larger good of the comunity

Mutameen
In USA and almost all other countries, if one gets sick, they go to the hospital emergency room and the care is provided without asking for the proof of funds so your analogy of Health care and Qarde Hasanah is totally comparing apples and oranges.

mutmaeen,

As per the quran, Qarde-Hasanah is a loan for which Allah is the guarantor. If you want gold or other material as guarantee, then do not call it Qarde-hasanah. Do not play games with the word of Allah. Disease is also from Allah but there is no term called disease-e-hasanah for the kothar to take advantage of.

Mutameen Quote
"the kothar does not disburse the loans-its done by the local jamaats"-
I thought nothing can be done WITHOUT THE RAZA from Aqa Moula albeit Kothar. So if local Jamaats disburse then they are in violation of Moula's Farman of doing things without RAZA. On the other hand if they are doing with the RAZA then KOTHAR is very well aware of the disbursement.
MUTAMEEN YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Questions for Mr. Insaaf

Are there any Qardan - Hasanah schemes run by progressive jamaats??? if by any chance yes than :

What are the terms and conditions???
What is the Max amount available???
How it is secured??? oh sorry.....Allah is the guarantor and he stands for everyone
What if people default in repayments???.....i m sure u must be filing suits against allah as he is the guarantor

Note : monkey's dont jump in

anajmi

gold as a collateral is not asked for by the qaradan hasanah to which i belong

oma

the raza of aqa moula is sought at the inception of a qaradan hasanah-the day to day running of the institutions is done by the local jamaats-u r stretching urself just to see a negative where none exists

mutmaeen,

You fail to understand the simple language of the quran. That is the reason why majority of the bohras are swindled by the kothar. If you call your loan qarde hasanah, then you cannot expect the person receiving the loan to return it. You need to have faith in Allah to return it. If you do not have that faith, then don't call it qarde hasanah.

Anjami
I did show your comments to Islamic Scholars and I think you might have mis-understood, Qarde Hasanah is expected to be repaid when and if person is able to but can not be forced or asked for guarentees from other human beings as Allah is the guarantor.

Omabharti

I think we are saying the same thing.

the issue isnt the nomenclature but a repayment mechanism-maybe qaradan hasnah may mean what u say-but to insist that a loan be issued without any means of repayment guarantee from a public corpus fund is untenable

Mutmaeen
I have no problem with your suggestion BUT THEN DO NOT CALL IT QARD-E-HASSANAH, They can call it INTEREST FREE LOAN. With that yes you are right they can demand all kind of guarantees and Gold but this CAN NOT be done if you call it QARD-E-HASSANAH

as long as the concept is noble and hundreds of small traders benefit from it whats the point in making much ado about nomenclature?

This argument of yours preceeds the next logical argument from kothari stooges that what is the harm in calling the Dai as Allah since he is also noble and does good. This is not simple nomenclature issue. This is playing with the words of the quran and what Allah has said belongs to him. However what the others have to realize is that this is not just an issue of the loan. But the entire system of kothar is based on playing with the words of the quran.

@Mutmaeen,
Words are medium through which we think and convey our thoughts to others. I would recommend that you read 1984 by George Orwell to understand how words are manipulated first to enable the powers to be to control thought.
It will give you an insight into the working of the manipulative propaganda of the Kothar.

mutmaeen wrote:as long as the concept is noble and hundreds of small traders benefit from it whats the point in making much ado about nomenclature?

Oh...well....the point is jealosy....the objective is to criticise every thing happening in the Bohra administration, u know and all of us including the nuts know for sure that Qardan - Hasanah schemes all over the world are helping bohras a lot to flourish in there busineses....and our moula is improving and enhancing these schemes regularly.......i could proudly say today that whatever i am in my business is only the barakat of Qardan - Hasanah (just read shorlty the funny criticism)

They are just like a opposition party sitting in the parliament who comes with the sole aim to criticise the party in power....even if Bohra administration helps people affected in natural calamities....we all know what a noble cause this is....but these crooks find it all unislamic

Actually, the bohra administration does nothing to help people. It simply conducts business even when it is helping people. Their guarantee based loan, which they wrongfully call Qarde Hasanah, is a perfect example. And the chamchas claiming that bohras are being helped all over the world is simply a lie, just like the Americans are helping the Iraqis and the Afghanis improve their lives. There are always people who will benefit from a corrupt regime. These people will speak like this zindabad guy.

its ok if you want to feel only in one particular way but its absolute truth that the qaradan hasanah to which i belong has helped mumineen in their business-construct homes-buy household goodies-and perform haj/panjatan ziyarat.this qaradan hasanah is one of the factors for the prosperity the muminen enjoy in this part of the world

You may enjoy all the prosperity, but it is not because of qarde hasanah. The loan the kothar gives to people is not qarde hasana as qarde hasana cannot require a quarantee for repayment.The loan that kothar gives comes with a lot of stress. Have you seen the agreement they make you sign?

the loan is not from kothar-yes i have seen the loan application and it does not have any stressfull conditions-u only pledge to repay the loan as per the instalments agreed by you regularly.and this qaradan hasanah is definitely a factor responsible for the prosperity of mumineen here

Either you are misinformed or you are lying. The conditions of repayment are set by the kothar. Either you have to agree or you don't get the loan.

mutmaeen wrote:this qaradan hasanah is definitely a factor responsible for the prosperity of mumineen here

Bro Mutmaeen,

Your personal experience and that of a transparent dealing of qarde hasanah in your city may be true which though is something good but at the same time a very rare case. I personally know scores of poor and needy bohras who have to run from pillar to post for days together and are ultimately denied the loan. The ones who have hugely benefited from this scheme are the rich bohras who know where to pull the strings. Just see the list of beneficiaries in dubai and you will find out that it is the business class which gets huge amounts and not the working class. Majority of dubai businessmen thrive on this scheme and the amount of gold they have to plege is hardly 25% of the loan amount. Same is the case with toronto and other non indian jamaats. You have to visit mumbra and the slums of Mumbai to experience the plight of the real needy bohras who dont have any access to such schemes.

You cannot deny that this is a fact which is well known to kothar right upto Burhanudin saab and nothing concrete has been done to eradicate this problem.

Aqa Moula_Zindabad wrote:Questions for Mr. Insaaf

Are there any Qardan - Hasanah schemes run by progressive jamaats??? if by any chance yes than :

What are the terms and conditions???
What is the Max amount available???
How it is secured??? oh sorry.....Allah is the guarantor and he stands for everyone
What if people default in repayments???.....i m sure u must be filing suits against allah as he is the guarantor

Note : monkey's dont jump in

Mr. Insaaf

do u find this question sensible....or u restrict all ur work to newspapers, articles, criticism etc ...but no action.....or u r waiting for a Qardan Hasanah Scheme to be formed by ur jamaats

anajmi

just because you prefer to close ur eyes and mind doesnt change anything-as far as lying is comcerned let it be ur forte-the qaradan hasanah i refer to has its memorandum and articles of association drafted locally and is registered with the local govt as a non trading organisation and those who are a part of this noble institution have benefitted greatly out of it and are continuing to benefit from it

bro gm

i entirely agree with you that the example i have cited is not only rare but maybe its the only one-most other qaradan hasanahs are steeped into unethical practices