Dawoodi Bohra Forum

In Ramzan Magrib Farz Namaz becomes too long, Aamil saheb takes wasila, then some duas , finally Matam and then after Sajda, Namazis are allowed to Iftar their Rozas, Can someone tell me what is the actual time for the Rozas to get Iftar? Are we doing correctly behind the Aamil Saheb? This is the most important and serious question and needs to be answered by some one who have command in Islamic knowledge.

The fast is from dawn to sunset. Maghrib azaan is called at sunset. So, as soon as the azaan is called, you can open your fast. Everything else is an innovation.

the usual practice amongst dawoodi bohras is to open the fast on completion of maghrib faraz-maatam is done after the fast is opened and no vasila taken during maghrib faraz

azzan is a call to prayers and its only logical that u say ur maghrib prayers first which in any case is very short and then open the fast

I don't understand what is "logical" about praying Maghrib first. The only reason bohras pray maghrib first is because they have restricted the time allowed for maghrib prayers. According to them, maghrib becomes qaza even if delayed by a minute, which is also an innovation.

...Eat and drink until the
white thread of dawn becomes
distinct from the black. Then
resume the fast until nightfall,...

[2:187]
http://cpsglobal.org/sites/default/file ... to%203.pdf

Most of Sunni Masajids light food (Sharbat, dates, fruits) are consumed and then prayers in Jamaat are offered.

Even in Mecca people sit with their Iftaar food and share with others immediately after Adhan.

I do not know why people who combine prayers and pray 2 prayers before its time are so particular about fird, Maatam and wasila on thirsty and hungry stomachs.

Wasalaam

Muslim First wrote:Most of Sunni Masajids light food (Sharbat, dates, fruits) are consumed and then prayers in Jamaat are offered.

Even in Mecca people sit with their Iftaar food and share with others immediately after Adhan.

I do not know why people who combine prayers and pray 2 prayers before its time are so particular about fird, Maatam and wasila on thirsty and hungry stomachs.

Wasalaam

Muslim first, just follow sunni way I can bet u must be following their way so why to bother what way Bohra do.Ramzaan Mubarak!!!!

Yeah brother M.F. listen to our brightest and lCant you tell all the things he learned in sabak.

Jayanti

I will not bore you with Sunni view but here is whot majority of Shia rule on Magrib prayer

Shia Islam
The time period within which the Maghrib daily prayer must be recited is the following:

Time begins: once the Sun has completely set beneath the horizon.
Time ends: at midnight. This is not necessarily at 12AM; rather it is the time exactly between sunset and the beginning of dawn.
However, it is very important to recite the prayer as soon as the time begins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghrib

Also remember we are commanded to fast from Dawn to Sunset.
Not when a Aamil or Dia completes his innovative prayers.

So we fast from Dawn to the adhan at sunset

Wasalaam

Delay does not make a fast detestable. Though undue delay is detestable in itself. But the breaking of fast is supposed to be after nightfall and not at sunset. Umar LA and Usman LA both used to break fast after having performed Mghrib Prayer. Wondering why Sunnis today prefer iftar even before performing magharib salat and say that delay in iftar is detestable? They are at variance with their Godfather Umar LA and Usman LA.

We, ONLY the followers of Moula TUS are very particular in obeying the commands of the Rasulallah SAW and Quran and we do not add or delete anything from religion. AS nobody permitted to introduce innovations in Islam.

Blessed Ramadan

Gulp wrote
"We, ONLY the followers of Moula TUS are very particular in obeying the commands of the Rasulallah SAW and Quran and we do not add or delete anything from religion. AS nobody permitted to introduce innovations in Islam."

Rasulallah did not do MAATAM after every Fard Salat. This innovation is done by current Dai and not even Dais before the current one did that either. 2 Rakat of additional Salat for Ghano Jivo is another innovation by the current Dai. There are more addition and innovations to the religion by 51 and 52 Dai then any other branch of Islam.No other branch of Shia do MATAAM after every FARD Salaat.

omabharti wrote:Gulp wrote
"We, ONLY the followers of Moula TUS are very particular in obeying the commands of the Rasulallah SAW and Quran and we do not add or delete anything from religion. AS nobody permitted to introduce innovations in Islam."

Rasulallah did not do MAATAM after every Fard Salat. This innovation is done by current Dai and not even Dais before the current one did that either. 2 Rakat of additional Salat for Ghano Jivo is another innovation by the current Dai. There are more addition and innovations to the religion by 51 and 52 Dai then any other branch of Islam.No other branch of Shia do MATAAM after every FARD Salaat.

Well lets start it this way: You believe sadaqa (charity) is a good deed? So there is no harm (in fact its good) if you do it everyday. It is even better if you do it thrice a day? In the same way, IF you consider matam a good deed, do it once a wee, everyday, thrice a day. The more the merrier. I tried to explain this with simple logic, instead of using confusingly big Arabic words which most of you don't seem to understand.

For info imamhussein sa was killed in kerbala almost 40 years after rasullah sa death thats why no matam during rasullahs time,and for innovation never in his life rasullah sa prayed taraveh which sunnis do.

aziz wrote:For info imamhussein sa was killed in kerbala almost 40 years after rasullah sa death thats why no matam during rasullahs time

Rasul Allah's (s.a.w.) beloved and only son died during infancy, various relatives and companions of Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) died in battlefields. Hamza (a.s.) was martyred in a very brutal way during the life of Nabi s.a.w. Not even once did He command his followers to gather in circles and do maatm and that too in chorus without a drop of tear oozing out from their eyes.

aziz wrote:for innovation never in his life rasullah sa prayed taraveh which sunnis do.

For innovation never in his life Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) prayed namaaz on laylat ul qadr "GAAL LOTAWI NE". For innovation never did Rasul Allah (s.a.w.), Mola Ali (a.s.), Imam Hussain (a.s.) and the subsequent Imams change the Kalima and Azaan by adding the words "Ali yun vali yullah"

aziz
you did not answer when this 2 Rakat Salat started which Dai started additional Salats. Would you consider that addition or not
If you do then you were wrong in your initial posting that there is no addition or deletion.

Improvisator Wrote;

Well lets start it this way: You believe sadaqa (charity) is a good deed? So there is no harm (in fact its good) if you do it everyday. It is even better if you do it thrice a day? In the same way, IF you consider matam a good deed, do it once a wee, everyday, thrice a day. The more the merrier. I tried to explain this with simple logic, instead of using confusingly big Arabic words which most of you don't seem to understand.

Brother

Your simple logic is illogical. You can not compare Sadaqa is mentioned in Qur'an and Hadith. Maatam is not. There are many Ahadith from Prophet SAW which castigates Wailing and beating oneself.

Please study the following:

Fiqh-us Sunnah 4:22

Wailing over the Dead

Wailing refers to mourning in a loud voice and crying in a high pitch, which was prohibited by the Prophet, peace be upon him, . Abu Malik alAsh'ari reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "Four practices of the pre-Islamic days of Ignorance will continue to be practiced by my ummah: taking pride in one's parentage, giving a person a father other than his own genealogical father, believing that rain is caused by some stars, and wailing over the dead." He further said: "A (professional) mourner, unless she repents before her death, will be raised on the Day of Judgement wearing a garment of tar and an armor of blistering puss." This is narrated by Ahmad and Muslim.

Umm 'Atiyyah reports: "The Messenger of Allah made us pledge that we will not wail over (the dead)" (Bukhari and Muslim). Al-Bazzar has transmitted, through a sound chain of authorities the report that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "Two sounds are accursed in this world and in the hereafter: the sound of wind instruments (to celebrate) good fortune, and of moaning aloud when afflicted with a misfortune."

Abu Musa is reported to have said: 'I declare my disavowal of all that Allah's
Messenger disavowed. The Messenger of Allah disavowed publically a woman who mourns loudly, one who shaves her head, and one who tears her clothes in mourning" (Bukhari and Muslim).

Ahmad narrates from Anas that he said: "The Prophet, peace be upon him, made the women pledge, while giving their allegiance to him, not to mourn loudly for the dead. Thereupon they asked him, 'O Messenger of Allah, some women helped us (in mourning our dead) during the pre-Islamic days. Should we (also in return) help them (in mourning their dead) now that we are Muslims? ' He replied: 'There is no such thing in Islam (i. e., helping each other to mourn the dead loudly)'."

Prohibition of lamenting the deceased

Ibn Masud narrated that the Prophet SAW said:

He who beats his face and tears his clothing, lamenting his fate concerning a misfortune, is doing that which was done in the [pre-Islamic] period of ignorance and is not one of us.

Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim

Sunan of Abu Dawud Hadith 1371

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri

The Apostle of Allah cursed the wailing woman and the woman who listens to her.

Hadith 1396

Narrated AbuHurayrah

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A bier should not be followed by a loud voice (of wailing) or fire.

Shahi Al-Bukhari

2:378

Narrated Al Mughira

I heard the Prophet saying, "Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire." I heard the Prophet saying, "The deceased who is wailed over is tortured for that wailing."

2:379

Narrated Ibn Umar from his father

The Prophet said, "The deceased is tortured in his grave for the wailing done over him."

2:380

Narrated Shuba

The deceased is tortured for the wailing of the living ones over him.

2:391

Narrated Abdullah bin Umar

Sad bin 'Ubada became sick and the Prophet along with 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Auf, Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud visited him to inquire about his health. When he came to him, he found him surrounded by his household and he asked, "Has he died?" They said, "No, O Allah's Apostle." The Prophet wept and when the people saw the weeping of Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) they all wept. He said, "Will you listen? Allah does not punish for shedding tears, nor for the grief of the heart but he punishes or bestows His Mercy because of this." He pointed to his tongue and added, "The deceased is punished for the wailing of his relatives over him." 'Umar used to beat with a stick and throw stones and put dust over the faces (of those who used to wail over the dead).

9:322
Narrated Um Atiyya
We gave the Pledge of allegiance to the Prophet and he recited to me the verse (60.12):
“That they will not associate anything in worship with Allah”. And he also prevented us from wailing and lamenting over the dead. A woman from us held her hand out and said, "Such-and-such a woman cried over a dead person belonging to my family and I want to compensate her for that crying." The Prophet did not say anything in reply and she left and returned. None of those women abided by her pledge except Um Sulaim, Um Al-'Ala', and the daughter of Abi Sabra, the wife of Al-Muadh or the daughter of Abi Sabra, and the wife of Mu'adh.

At-Tirmidhi –Hadith No.690

Narrated Hudhayfah

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "Recite the Qur'an with the modulations and tones of the Arabs, but avoid the modulations of those who recite love poetry and the modulations of the people of the two Books. After my death people will come who will trill when they recite the Qur'an as is done in singing and wailing, but it will go no farther than their throats, and they and those who are charmed by their performance will be let into error."

Bayhaqi in Shu'ab al-Iman and Razin in his book transmitted it.

At-Tirmidhi –Hadith No.858

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib

Ali heard Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) curse those who took usury, those who paid it, those who recorded it, and those who refused to give sadaqah. And he used to prohibit wailing.

Nasa'i transmitted it