Dawoodi Bohra Forum

A group of us were in Damascus a week ago on a ziarat trip. At the same time the Sultan of Bohras was in Najaf. While there our tour guide wa talking to his from his colleague, who happened to be in Najaf. He told him that when the Sultan arrived with his large ceremonious and lavish entourage, the local Iraqis would not allow him entry to the holy shrine. The denial was in protest of the Sultan's extravagant lifestyle in blasphemous contrast to that of Ali (SWAS), who led a simple and poor life. They also objected to his large group of followers and alleged that he demanded they worship him.

Finally the Sultan's deep pockets won with government "intervention" and he was allowed in. Incidentally this was his first trip to Najaf since the downfall of the Sadam regime, during which time, he had enjoyed easy access - favor from one tyrant to another.

No doubt the gullible and ill informed flock will either deny this incident or attribute is as a miracle!

this story sounds a fertile imagination running riot.syedna [tus] arrived in najaf on 14th shawwal evening and he performed his first ziyarat on 15th shawwal so denying entry for3 days is a joke.

and the iraqis protesting against the lavish lifestyle etc is crap-its very unlikely they would know what lifestyle syedna has

Mutmaen,

I think after ur reply to insaaf....he has created a new ID to real out his fiction.....this sounds like a typical insaaf propaganda press...

I thought progs belief concided with wahabbis on matter of ziarat so what were you doing in damascus,and the ziarat done by moula on 15 shawwal was relayed live to all bohras as was the ziarat on 16 shwwal ,

Believe what you want - it least matters to us - I reported the facts I heard from a source who had witnessed it first hand. |The fact of the Sultan's obscene lifestyle and its comparison with that of Ali (SWAS) cannot be denied can it?

Now you sound just like insaaf, making mountains out of molehills and why are you comparing his lifestyle with moula ali sa only .why not with imam moiz sa or other fatemi imams are you saying they were wrong when they lived in palaces ,then there is something wrong with your faith as shia ...
As i said all progs here support wahhabis so what were you doing going for ziarat especially to a kubbah in sham built by moula tus

Well I have the same thing as "bohri" pointed out. A lot of iraqis come to me for their logistical needs. Among them is brother of deputy police chief of najaf, he was very well aware of syedna's presence in najaf. When he came to know that I am a bohra, he asked me if we are kind of muslims like Alavis of syria ( hafiz asad was alavi, a branch of shiite but denouned by shiite as non muslims).

Remember Syedna saheb was to inaugrate the Kufa mosque, we have spent millions of dollars renovating, I have been to masjid azam, it is a lot of difference which i could see in video. But having spent huge sum of money mosque is under iraqi control.

One more thing would confirm mine and bohri's story, in a recent post , Oma posted a misal from alvazarat for zaireen, which specifically points out do's and don'ts. It specifically asked not to put hands together or bow when syedna saheb is visiting.

The dignitaries syedna saheb met was a local police man, or a 2nd rate shiite mulla. It is ok, because syedna saheb is our spritual head, we cannot expect everyone to give him the same respect as we do, but my only contention is, why should we be spedning our hard earned monies on some far away projects, which is out of our control. Hazrat Ali was not worldly man, he would appreciate more if we do khidmat to Allah's makhluq instead of putting gold and silver on his masoleoum.

Now you sound just like insaaf, making mountains out of molehills and why are you comparing his lifestyle with moula ali sa only .why not with imam moiz sa or other fatemi imams are you saying they were wrong when they lived in palaces ,then there is something wrong with your faith as shia ...
As i said all progs here support wahhabis so what were you doing going for ziarat especially to a kubbah in sham built by moula tus

Dear Aziz Bhai - as I said, believe it or not - it's up to you whether to view this as a mountain or a molehill. If other Imams lived lavishly, eg Imam Moiz etc., I plead my ignorance as I have not read the history - I imagine if he did it at the expense of his community, then the same comments would have applied - two wrongs do not make a right.

as for ziarat "especially to a kubbah in sham built by moula tus" - which one is that? Doing Ziarat and visiting the differenet shrines is part of ones enlightenment - each one has a right to make their own judgement on how to view these practices - not to be dstracted from our comment on the Sultan of the Bohras and his tyrannical ways.

bro bohri

first u contended that syedna was denied entry for 3 days-thats not borne out by facts-secondly u say that the authorities denied him entry coz his lifestyle is lavish-now since there was no denial of entry the second point abt lifestyle does not hold.

either the story is cooked up or the source if there is any is a malafide

Whose ziarat were you doing in damascus by the way, is ziarat allowed by progs moula asger and insaaf and their fellow wahabbis progs who support them

Brothers Aziz, Mutmaeen etc

I do not wish to take part in this debate but just want to tell you that there are so many other important and more useful things that you could be doing to make life better for the mumineen around you. Instead, all that you seem to be doing is engaging is completely useless and mind-numbing arguments about whose ziarat Brother Bohri was doing in Damascus. The point has been made that Aqa Maula was not denied entry to Najaf. Now move on.

You seem to have put on blinders and refuse to see what is going wrong around you. You are all fooling yourselves by pretending that mumineen are content with the present system and it is only the progressive Bohras who are stirring trouble. Look around you, brothers. See the frustration on the faces of the ordinary mumineen. That is what you should be worried about, not what the progressive Bohras are doing.

The young generation is turning away from the dawaat because of their frustrations. As an example, see the forum "Rebellion in Canada". Most of the postings there are from mainstream mumineen who are disillusioned with the local jamaat. Do something about that.

Allah has blessed you immensely with intelligence. Use it. Aqa Maula always says that Mumineen should help their brothers. Your brothers around you are begging for your help and all that you seem to be bothered about is petty things.

Wasalaam.

Well said. What I reported was what I had heard, and what was perfectly plausible.

Brother Frustrated - the progressive community in Ontario is a thriving one - have you considered paying them a visit?

bro frustrated mumin

i have not said that everyone is content and there is nothing wrong with the system.in fact i very much appreciate the kind of approach u took by standin upto the local amil.

but bro bohri was actually cooking up a story and when shown the truth he persisted with his illusion so a counter was necessary.

the people who are engaging in mind numbing arguments on this forum are a coterie of wahabis who have made it a habit to deride anything and everything which is connected with shia beliefs.they dont miss an opportunity to deride the imams and shia ideology.dont u think that what we should be discussing here is grassroots corruption instead of deliberately alienating a vast majority of aggrieved bohras by pointing out to them that shiasm is the last thing they should have embraced? that the wahabi ideology is the true islam?

get the focus back to the local issues and stop attempts at propogating sunniism on a shia mustali forum

How can you do that when your prog guru insaaf calls the three usurpers la hazrat and khalifas,that why wahabbis have foot hold,in the end you arer also with them

Blaming "wahhabis" has become a copout for all "intelligent" shias over here!! Anyone who tries to argue or discuss anything with this people is labelled a wahhabi. Anything that is discussed in the light of the quran is dismissed as wahhabism. Over the years on this forum I have learned that if someone calls you a wahhabi, consider yourself a winner. You have won the debate. The other guy has nothing more to say except shout "wahhabi wahhabi". You have made your point!! Infact I always believed that wahhabis had their own issues, but the way people get called wahhabi on this forum leads me to believe that the wahhabis might actually be right about pretty much everything or these shias have no clue about wahhabis or wahhabism.

Brother Aziz,

All you're saying with your incomprehensible comments is that you have the brain power and imagination – but none of the delicious flavour – of a Tootsie Roll.

See what is wrong in your own house (the dawaat) before you jump up and scream "wahabism" at anyone who questions you. At least the progressive Bohras have enough intelligence to question the things around them and do not just accept everything with blind faith.

I am a Dawoodi Bohra. I accept Syedna Muhammed Burhanuddin as my spiritual leader. I accept him as the Dai-al-Mutlaq. I pray everyday that Allah grants me the naseeb of going for ziarat of Imam Hussein and the Ahle Bait. I long for the day when I can stand before the zarih mubarak of Hussein (AS) and at the gravesite of Mawlatena Fatima. OK...I have made my point that I am neither a Wahabi nor am I a follower of "prog guru insaaf". Now, come and have a sensible conversation with me about the wrongs in the dawaat.

Dear Mutmaeen (what does that mean btw?)

quote]but bro bohri was actually cooking up a story and when shown the truth he persisted with his illusion so a counter was necessary.
[/quote]

Have you asked yourself why anyone would feel the need to cook up such a story - I wish I had such imagination - but thanks for the compliment!! I reported what I heard from someone I considered a reliable source. It's your business if you choose not to believe it.

Dear Brother Aziz,

Whose ziarat were you doing in damascus by the way, is ziarat allowed by progs moula asger and insaaf and their fellow wahabbis progs who support them

Allowed? - what do you mean

allowed?

Here's a news flash for you. No raza ia required to do anything , yes even ziarat - imagine that if you can, though it must be a very difficult concept for you to grasp. I understand it must seem odd to you - having taken for granted that even a visit to the loo requires 'raza' and 'mafi' !

I don't mean to offend your religous sensibilities, but here is a list of other things we can do without raza:

have a party
invite who we want
attend weddings
attend funerals
perform wedding
perform mishaq
perform funerals
go on ziarat
go on hajj
give our children our chosen names
talk to who we want
.... and the list goes on.... can you imagine a life without 'raza' and 'mafi' '?

bro bohri

when u can question the most reliable sources of islamic shariat and quran namely the ahle bait then u should have had enough sense to cross check the crap which ur so called reliable source fed u

as for wahabis considering themselves winners -they can delude themselves as much they can-the desecrators of the gravesite of moulatena fatema and the club which gloats and boasts in obliterating the legacy of prophet are winners?wow-as for arguments and wahabi intelligence,this saying suits them perfectly-the intelligents use silence in arguments whilst the stupids use their tongues while the intellignts use their tongues in a discussion when the stupids use silence

Br.mutmaeen

AS

there is not one single post by so called "Wahabis" on this thread. If you want to discuss Wahabis and damage caused by them, please open up a thread in "Islam today".
PROPHET'S LEGASY IS ISLAM. Not what you think. Two Shia Imams are in hiding and one claimant is flouting prophet's teachings. Nobody prevents you from visiting graves. If dwellers of those graves has super natureal power then they can hear your request from anywhere in the world.

mutmaeen,

You've demonstrated your shia "intelligence" one more time. I said that if someone like you ends up calling someone a wahhabi, the one being called "wahhabi" is the winner. I didn't say that wahhabis are winners. The kothar's got you completely twisted. Now keep shouting "wahhabi, wahhabi", cause I have already shown that you have no other argument left.

when u can question the most reliable sources of islamic shariat and quran namely the ahle bait

This is again an example of Kotharis using the ahle bait for their own selfish purposes. It is like when Bush claimed that God asked him to go into Iraq!! Is there a book by the ahle bait talking about "Qarde Hasana" as administered by the kotharis? Is there a writing by the ahle bait about taking raza before going for Hajj? No, there is no such writing or book.

The point mutmaeen is trying to make, which is a lie ofcourse, is that their Dai is a part of ahle bait and so anything he says is as reliable as ahle bait. This can be flushed down the drain. And you will hear the sound "wahhabi wahhabi" from the toilet.

I mean to say that there is no such claim attributed to the able bait. Otherwise the kotharis will claim that even the prophet didn't leave behind a book or writings. The kotharis are good in playing with words

anajmi wrote:The point mutmaeen is trying to make, which is a lie ofcourse, is that their Dai is a part of ahle bait and so anything he says is as reliable as ahle bait.

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS) is a descendent of Syedi Fakhruddin Shaheed (Galiakot) and so are 'hudud kiram' like Syedi Shamas Khan and Syedi Hasanji Badshah.

http://www.bohra.net/archive/awliya.html

Maulaya Abdullah is the forefather of Syedi Hassan Feer Saheb in whose nasal were several doats including our Dai-uz-zamaan Syedna Mohamad Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS).

http://www.bohra.net/archive/awliya.html

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS) is a descendent of Syedi Fakhruddin Shaheed (Galiakot) and so are 'hudud kiram' like Syedi Shamas Khan and Syedi Hasanji Badshah.

But I thought the current Syedna is the off shot of Raja Bharmal and Tarmal who converted to Bohraism and then became Dai.
So how does the current Syedna can be a progeny of Ahle Bait?

i have claimed nowhere that the dai is a part of or a descendent of ahle bait-it is a practice of anajmi to misinterpret anything and then articulate his wahabi nonesense with abject analogies-in fact its elemets like anajmi which distort all practical discussions into a shia-sunni debate and thereby alienate aggrieved bohras who come to this forum

yje point the wahabi anajmi missed was this-that the ahle bai are the most reliable source on quran and sunnah-does not mean they need to author books on it-they have articulted the correct positions through their sdermons-some have written books as ikhvanus safa-the sermons have been colected by the scholars of the time like moiyuddush shirazi and qazulnoman

but for a one eyed jack onl ythe sunni ulemas count-pathetic
the use of drain flush and toilet like words befit this one eyed jack

"wahhabi wahhabi wahhabi". Why am I not surprised? Anyone??

So, which of the sermon talks about Dais raza for going to Hajj? Which sermon talks about how to administer "Qarde Hasana"?? Which sermon of the ahle bait talks about praying asr immediately after zuhr even if you delay zuhr to the very end? and which sermon talks about praying isha immediately after maghrib? Which sermon talks about kissing the Dais feet? Which sermon talks about the Dai being God's representative on earth? Which sermon talks about bowing down in front of the Dai just like you do in front of Allah? Which sermon talks about performing matam at every occasion? Which sermon talks about the 23rd of Ramadan as being the night of qadr? Which sermon talks about the community property belonging to the Dai?

have claimed nowhere that the dai is a part of or a descendent of ahle bait

Good, so you agree that this Dai can be as corrupt as any corrupt politician and the organization that he may be running could very well be a complete farce. Remember only the ahle bait can be "masoom". By the way, I would also like to see a sermon for that.

FULLY agree with Anajmi.

GM and Mutmaen, the problem with you all is that you all are not willing to listen to any logic or rationale and keep on harping what kothar feeds you .......... you don't use your brains ........ oopppsss or shall I say 'brains' were served as Bhayja Fry to your Sh**zadas in Zeyafat ........

Wahabi, Wahabi, Wahabi ........... hey why don't we have one anti-Matam like this ..... wahabi, wahabi, ya wahabi.... can add little song versions too ......... like they are in Matam ...... anti-madhs can also be made like ........ in terms of Sajda Tujhay Wajib Hay ........... for Wahabis .......... Dunda Tujhay Lazim Hay .......