Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Inspired by an interview of MF Husain on ETV I have pened down this article. Data is collected from Internate.
Internationally known Painter-Artist Maqbool Fida Husain is 94 years (97 years according to Hijri calendar) now. Even at this advanced age Maqbool Fida Husain runs about everywhere bear-footed and that too straight without bending, without any one holding his hand. He is quite active and energetic. But no one describes it as "miracle".
Husain comes from a Sulaimani Bohra family.
Sulaimani community which has only 10% of total Bohra population has produced many great personalities like Justice Badruddin Tayyebji, Salim Ali, Fatehi, Dawood Fazal bhoy and Maqbool Fida Husain. It is because their present Dai, Sayedna Jamal Al Din Al-Makrani stays in Yemen and do not interfere in their day to day life. Sulaymanis Bohras are not compelled to adopt any special dress code, They blend with and adapt the local norms of dress. There is no compulsion or coercion to make any payments to the religious authorities. All donations and other religious obligations are voluntary.
F. M. Husain's mother died at Bombay when he was one and a half years old. His father moved to Indore, where Husain went to school. In 1935, he moved to Mumbai and was admitted to Sir J. J. School of Art. He started off by painting cinema hoardings.
In 1940s Husain first became well-known as an artist.
In 1952, his first solo exhibition was held at Zürich and over the next few years, his work was widely seen in Europe and U.S.
In 1955, he was awarded the prestigious Padma Shree prize by the Government of India.
In 1967, he made his first film, "Through the Eyes of a Painter". It was shown at the Berlin Film Festival and won a Golden Bear.
In 1971 M. F. Husain was a special invitee along with Pablo Picasso at the Sao Paulo Biennial.
In 1973 he was awarded the Padma Bhushan
In 1986 he was nominated to the Rajya Sabha.
In 1991 he was awarded the Padma Vibhushan.
Husain went on to become the highest paid painter in India. His single canvases have fetched up to $2 million at a recent Christie's auction.
Maqbool Fida Husain has spent hours and years outlining his love for Hindu philosophy and culture. Eight years spent painting the Ramayana. Eight years painting the Mahabharata. He has painted hundreds of canvases of Ganesha and Shiva and Parvati and Hanuman, the ragas, the natyas and Benaras. Seventy years spent roaming the earth, seeking to enrich its understanding of India.
Several times the Hindu fanatics have smashed his paintings and offices in India declaring him an apostate. On such a tense occasion Maqbool Fida Husain himself sat quietly on the floor of his home with meditative silence heightened by the rhythmic sound of his sketching pen. Nothing could touch him, immune in his concentration. The beautiful room acquired a sense of prayer.
"It is just a moment in history," said M. F. Husain. "Kya kar sakte hain (what can one do)?" He was neither angry nor revengeful. He said in media "I have nothing against them. I pardon them as they are ignorant of what they are destroying."
As on now he is staying in Dubai engaged in a massive project to create 99 paintings on Arab culture by Qatar royal family which he is quite hopeful to complete in time and return to his motherland, India in 2012. Husain says "It is not just Islamic culture. Arab history dates back to much before that. The Sheikh of Qatar is sponsoring the painting for Qatar."
One day in Abu Dhabi, the next in Qatar and each summer in London. He is currently learning Arabic and working on four simultaneous projects: a series of 99 canvases on the Arab Civilization, commissioned by the Queen of Qatar; a series of similar scale on Indian Civilisation, commissioned by Lakshmi Mittal; a series on the history of Indian cinema; and a series on Mughal-e-Azam.
Inspite of enough wealth and luxury he sleeps on a mattress in the drawing room, as he has always done everywhere.
Even at the age of 94 he travels alone.
Except when Maqbool Fida Husain is painting, he is in constant, infectious, prodigious motion, his fingers drumming restlessly to an imaginary tabla.
He is a kind of living history, a national heritage site. But not a miracle.

Saifuddin Insaf Bhai,

The present Dai of of Sulemani bohra sect (both hussaini & muheisini) is based in Mansooriya district of Najran, South of Saudi Arabia. Although it is with the border of Yeman but part of Saudi Arabia. Rest everything what you write about them are correct but recently there was some sort of problem on "Wajebat".

Thanks.

now here is one more example of a remarkable but very humble man, who also does not claim to be a miracle. he is not a filthy rich potentate like syedna who has unlimited amounts to get the best medical attention this world can offer. he keeps himself fit by being active both spiritually and physically.

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Fauja Singh is something of a celebrity at the east London Gurudwara (Sikh temple) which he visits daily. While he tucks into a breakfast of rice pudding and a cup of tea on a sunny Thursday morning, a steady stream of people approach to congratulate him on his latest achievement. He smiles and chats, his eyes twinkling. Just days before, he completed both the Luxemburg Interfaith marathon and the Edinburgh marathon as part of the relay team Sikhs in the City - a team of four Sikh elders with a combined age of 336.

Fauja is the oldest of the four, a sprightly 98 but, as I interview him, with the help of his trainer-cum- mentor-cum- manager-cum- friend and, for today, translator, Harmander Singh, he exudes a boyish charm that makes you forget he's close to 100.

Fauja first ran when he was a youngster in India , but returned to the sport after a 54-year gap to complete his first marathon at the age of 89. He says he took up running after losing a son and later his wife - these losses left him demoralised and saddened and he felt he needed a new focus in his life. He moved to Britain and soon started challenging other old-age pensioners to races. He chuckles cheekily as he explains how he increased his competitive edge: "If they looked healthy, I'd extend the distance; the races got longer and longer until I ran my first official race - a 20km run for Cancer Research UK in 1999."

Once bitten by the running bug, he set his sights on the London marathon and with the help of Harmander he gained a place running for Bliss - the premature baby charity - making him the oldest person in the race running for some of the youngest.

"I didn't really feel tired after crossing the line, which was partly down to the training but mainly to God. He put me there so he had to help me finish! I thought: 'I'm going to do more of these..'"

Since then, Fauja has run six more marathons - another four in London, one in Toronto and one in New York - and he has broken 12 UK, European, Commonwealth and World records, though he remains remarkably humble about his accomplishments.

"I only weigh 52kg," he says. "It's not a lot."

All four members of Sikhs in the City share an infectiously positive outlook and lust for life that is key to their ongoing success. Ajit Singh, 79, for instance, has just learned to ride a bicycle, so one of his goals now is to complete a triathlon. He and his lifelong friend Amrik Singh, also 79, have completed more than 1,000 races between them and acted as mentors to Fauja. Karnail Singh, 80, is the newest member of the team and the least experienced runner. His "experimentation" with course routes means that his teammates have to keep an eye on him, but what he lacks in kilometres he more than makes up for in providing the focus for a little gentle mickey-taking.
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=26263 (Fauja Singh, Oldest Marathon Runner)

The Sikhs in the City are familiar faces on the marathon scene and are treated to a warm reception wherever they go, but Fauja in particular has become a bit of a global star. Having completed marathons in America , Europe and Asia , he was recruited as the face of Adidas for their "Impossible Is Nothing" campaign in 2004. He has also been the subject of an online petition to be recognized in the Queen's Birthday Honours and there is even a "Fauja Singh Appreciation Society" on Facebook.

How does it feel to be on the receiving end of so much public adoration? "It makes me happy," he says. "Elderly people are like little children, they like attention."

The running quartet are in agreement about why they've managed to stay so healthy: a positive frame of mind, keeping the company of people who are forward looking, not indulging in any excesses, appreciating what God has provided them with and keeping active.

And for Fauja age isn't even a consideration:

"I do not consider myself to be old. From the moment I do that, I would lose everything, because age is a state of mind - as long as you're positive you can do anything."

None of the four have any intention of hanging up their trainers. In the next four months alone they're taking part in a relay marathon in Redbridge (east London), a relay from Birmingham to London, attempting to notch up yet more records at the Norway KnarvikMila where times are age-weighted, and they are joining a British team with a total age of 1,000 years at the Toronto Waterfront marathon to challenge a team of Canadian elders over a 5km course.

For Fauja the answer is simple: "I won't stop running until I die. The next target, God willing, is to be the oldest marathon runner ever." The title is currently held by a Greek man who completed a marathon aged 98, but as nobody seems to know his exact date of birth, Fauja is holding fire until he turns 99 and the following year, when he will be 100, he would like to return to the London marathon - his home course.

Before leaving I ask Fauja what changes he has seen in Britain in the 15 years he's been here and he replies in his typically charming, upbeat way. "Maybe it's because I'm getting on a bit and so I'm grateful for everything, but despite what other people might say, I only see improvement. The respect and acknowlegement I get here is just wonderful." And with that trademark twinkly smile he adds: "I am very grateful for the opportunities I have been given. If I didn't do any of this why would a man like me, of my age, have the opportunity to wander the streets of the world?"
By Laura Potter

NO MIRACLES HERE!!!!

The Sulemani Bohras are a small sect broke away from the Dawoodi Bohras in 1588 AD during the Mogul rule. Which means that they are Ismaili, Must’ali, Tayebi Sulaimani Bohras. That further means that they are the followers and inheritors of the same Fatemi Imams and Bohra Dais up to 25th Dai, Sayedna Jalal Shamshuddin Saheb of which Dawoodis are followers. But they have not wasted their wealth and energy in claiming the “sole inheritance-ship” of Fatemi culture and heritage buildings as Dawoodis have done.

Brother Husain! You are right. The Sulaimani Bohras are only comparatively better than Dawoodis. The priestly leadership of Sulaimanis is directly appointed by the Sayedna in Yemen; Earlier this religious leadership was insignificant. But, of late, as the community has prospered, their control over the Jamat has increased. Some time back the religious leadership in India tried to suppress the democratic rights of its Jamat members and came in conflict with a section of the community. The members reported these matters to the Syedna in Yemen; he intervened in order to reduce the conflict and tension. Today the Office (Hazarat) of the Sulemani Sayedna is not as powerful as the Dawoodi or Alvi Sayedna. He is not as wealthy as some of its members and lives a relatively simple life. There is relatively speaking, more democracy within the community.

Saifuddin Insaf Saheb.

Please note that the Dai of Suleimani Bohra based in southern part of Saudi Arabia and not (not) in Yeman. In june 2005 their 49th Dai Hussain bin Ismail Makrami died of old age and his son is now the 50th Dai of Suleimani Bohras. They are known as Makrami in Saudi Arabia.

Recently Son of 49th Dai Mohammed has filed a petition in Islamic court against his brothers and sister to get his shares in billion of Saudi Riyals in inheritance. Mohammed was the only son which was disowned by his father after the the spilt in Suleimani (makrami) bohras. Now there are two factions of Sulemani bohras called "Hussaini" & " Muheisini". Hussainis has follower of around 175,000 and muhesini around 8 to 10 thousand only.

FYI, The Dai is not leading the simple life but regarded as celebarity amog the community. His wealth is unaccounted and there are number of forum in Arabic language against this sect and their practices. If you go through search in Arabic language you may find the truth.

During my research work on Bohras (Arab) I met one of his son and he confirmed the news of spilit. I have written on this board long time back details about suleimani bohras.

Dear Husain bhai,
My knowledge is based on my contacts with "Khandan" Sulaimanis" in Mumbai, migrated from Hyderabad. They speak fine Urdu and their woman folks are seen in Sarees and the men wear Kurta, Pajama and Western dress (Trousers/ Shirt). I am told by them that 80 per cent of Sulaimanis are of Arab origin, whereas the Indian Sulemanis constitute only twenty per cent.

One thing we need to understand. It is a miracle, only if the Syedna is involved. When others are involved, it is just normal matters.

When the Syedna or his ilk are involved and condensation on the wall happens it is a mojiza. When it happens on my bathroom mirror on a cold day, it is a scientific phenomenon and quite normal.

We can go on and on. The mojizas are endless...

A small community of Sulaimani Bohras also exist in Karachi, Pakistan which around 100 families. Their jamaat khana is located near city railway station.

Renounced artist Fayzee Rahamin and Begum Attiyah Faizi were Sulaimani Bohras, who migrated to Pakistan after partition. Fayzee Rahamin was a seasoned painter in his own right. Abjuring his Jewish faith, he embraced Islam at Attiya Begum’s insistence. Attiya Begum was the daughter of Judge Badruddin Taybji (he was well known Sulaimani Bohra political activist from Bombay in undivided India). Fayzee Rahamin was at one time the art tutor of Mary of Teck, queen consort of George-V of the Great Britain. The two distinguished Pakistanis, who, at the time of independence, were invited to make Karachi their home by the Quaid-i-Azam, Mohammad Ali Jinnah. The couple sold their house, the Aiwan-i-Riffat, in Mumbai and moved to Karachi. She also wrote a book about Allama Iqbal's private life.

S. Insaf wrote:Sulaimani community which has only 10% of total Bohra population has produced many great personalities like Justice Badruddin Tayyebji

Justice Badruddin Tyabji was the first Indian Judge of Bombay High Court and also one of the founders of Anjuman Islam Institute.

another sulemani bohra family moved from Burma(rangoon) to Karachi in the 60s. Their last name was simjhee.

Friends here is an article from one of the Sulaimani Bohra web sites which actually confirms the split in them and the very major issue of split a few historic glimpses, i would request the readers now in the 2011 to actually read this article with an intention of understanding religious short falls need for correction and some times advantages rather than trying to waste time in the we are right and they are wrong or the vice versa issue i guess in this techno savy era we surely understand that all religions sects and communities are to be respected and every one is free to choose and follow what best suits his spiritual temprament Friends please note this article is not meant to hurt any individual or communities feelings it is just a highlight of the events unfolding in our times, the website address has been mentioned below and the article is posted after the website as and how it is :

http://www.thaatalborouj1.com/alborouj/ ... /bsmla.gif

http://www.al-wed.com/pic-vb/131.gif


Noble brothers and sisiters of Jazirah Hind and Pakistan as Salam alaikum wa Rehmat Allah wa Barakatuhu ………

We are a community which has boasted about being on the right path and its connectivity with the Holy Imam’s a.s. the son’s of the Prophet s.a. over the year’s especially over the past 429 years …….yes especially over the past 429 years as 429 years back we separated out from the Dawoodi bohras and their sub sects under the leadership of a great and a noble being Syedna Sulaiman bin Hasan Sahib under the pretext of having the greatest sign of truth a document which manifest only amongst those who are connected to the Holy Imam a.s. and in return to the spiritual relam also known as alam e Aql ……this Holy sign or document is known as "Nass shareef "

The year 1000 hijri i.e. 429 years from today is a year never to be forgotten in the Tayyabi Sulaimani history when Sheikh Dawood bin Qutub unlawfully took the reigns of the Dawat in his hands and claimed that he was the successor of the then Dai who had passed away Syedna Dawood bin Ajab shah and claimed that he was bestowed with the Holy Nass which proved his claim right BUT the only new agenda claimed by him this time was that the Nass need not be documented it can even be verbal what’s most important is the witnesses in such a criteria …….such was the claim of this man who betrayed his loyalty to the Amir of the Faithfull (Imam) for material gains and power who wrongly interpreted the meaning of his position and his religion as well.

Apart from the Nass written in the hand writing of Sheikh Dawood Qutub which even today can be seen potrayed in the tomb of Syedna Sulaiman Sahib there were many other Nass’s written and send by Syedna Dawood bin Ajab shah during his tenure….

Sheikh Dawood Qutub was but a care taker to the Dawat e Hind wa Sind on behalf of the noble Dai Syedna Sulaiman Sahib appointed as a care taker by Syedna Dawwod bin Ajab himself for Syedna Sulaiman Sahib………….Syedna Sulaiman had once studied under this old hand in the Dawat and respected his age and services in the Dawat and like any other noble being after the death of his spiritual father the father of the Dawat Syedna Dawood bin Ajab shah he waited for his care taker Dawood Qutub to publicaly announce the heir to the Dawat with its valid documents and honour ….he waited ! a year passed by ….then another ….then yet another and Dawood never heeded to the advices and warnings of his Master who had passed away Syedna Dawood bin Ajab shah …..finally after a three years of patience and grace Syedna Sulaiman came to all of us yes all of us those who lived in the Gulf as well as those who lived in the Sind and the Hind along with his most trusted companions and great leaders of the future Sulaimani community like Syedna Mohaamed bin Fahad Syedi Ibrahim bin Syedna Dawood bin Ajab Sheikh Ahmed bin Syedna Dawood bin Ajab and others they called upon us openly showing the Nass shareef a written document sealed with the seal of the Dawat and wrote rasails and books giving us the understanding that Without a Nass there is no Dawat and the Nass can only be written not verbal they wrote qasaid’s (poems) debating the dawoodis proving to them that there claim is wrong asking them to debate from the words of the Ismaili books and not from the words of Sheikh Dawood Qutub they explained to us do not follow personalities but follow the truth Syedna Sulaiman would say do not follow me because I am Sulaiman bin Hasan but follow me if you find Haqq (Nass) with me such were their claims the Dawoodis could not debate such accuracy and honesty they took to harassing our community politically and took to pelting stones, throwing abuses and cutting off relations ……………their girls or boys were not allowed to marry with us a sister could not keep relations with her brother a mother could not meet her son if he was one of us they spat on our names and spoke about killing our people in cold blood !..........such were the akhlaaq of those who had lost the path of the righteous ……………

Brothers and sisters you may confirm the authenticity of every word that I write from the following books which are available and translated into your language the urdu language lest you may be told that they are available only in Arabic -----
1) Syedna Jaffer bin Sulaiman ki khud nushta halat zindagi ka tarjumah
2) Bidaee al Akhbaar
3) Nubaz ul Akhbaar fil Masaib wal Imtehaan
4) Minhaj ud deen 2 parts
5) Ash shehaab al Lameah by Syedna Ali bin Husain al Jamaali
6) Seerat Syedna Mohammed bin Fahad
Apart from these books of history written by great Sulaimani Dai’s there are around 150 odd books in the Arabic script written during the early Sulaimani tenure which may be refered to provided you are not distracted from them by wrongly vested beliefs encoporated by those who may suffer great losses if you get well versed with your history……

Let me take pride in noting down a few lines from the Dawat’s great scholar writer and Dai syedna Mohammed bin Fahad and leave it for you to decide how important a documented Nass is -------
و ان النصوص علي دورها--------------يدور الهدي سنة سرمدية
فمنها ا لخفي و منها الجلي------------لحكم الظهور و رسم التقية
و ليست علي ما يقول العدي----------------فان مقالاتهم مسخرية
The Nass was always and will always remain as it is a sunnah in the Dawat which will always remain
There are two types of Nass one is known as khafi (hidden under the words of wisdom) the other is Jali (open to and clear undoubted) this is as per the time requires in the times of sitr Nass e khafi is used and in the times of kashf (when there is no fear from any enemy within or outside) Nass jali is used
It is not as per what our foe Sheikh Dawood and his men say their talks of having a undocumented Nass are nothing but talks of mocking the religion

When the Dawoodi’s heard this they said look the sualimains have accepted there are two types of Nass and the Nass of our dai is one of the two it is the Nass e jali which is not documented but it is verbal and there are witnesses to the same.

The great Masters replied woe be upon you …….you know not from knowledge but manipulation of its purity as per your evil beings ! …….and asked if they can quote an example in history of a Nass e Jali that they know of …..they verily replied yes the nass at Ghadir khum made upon Amir ul Momineen Ali bin abi Talib which was verbal by the prophet himself he said s.a. “of whom so ever I am master Ali is his master” the great masters replied well done ! your knowledge fortifies our claims and the truth prevails …..it is very apparent that you have not understood Nass e Jali …so let it be known to you that the Nass on Amir ul Momineen was declared amongst a crowd of one lakh Muslims which followed a fabulous sermon which shook the hearts of men apart from this the prophet p.b.u. held the hands of his brother raised high enough for the crowd to undoubtedly know it is Ali bin abi Talib he is talking about …..and when he finished the sermon he asked every Muslim present to come and vow allegiance or give his Ahad to Ali bin abi Talib as a sign of acceptance and submission to him…..all did the same and the first person to give his Ahad to Maulana Ali was abu bakker….such is the requirement for Nass e Jali

They then asked the Dawoodi brother's why did Syedna Dawood Ajab not declare what he did why was it in closed rooms amongst selected people why did he not follow what his master and prophet Syedna Mohammed did why did he not ask the people after declaration to take his (ibn Qutubs) oath and swear their loyalty to him ???? where is the sermon he gave ??? they were tongue tied and return started spreading ill messages about us the Sulaimanis disgracing our women men and children in the society with lies.

My revered Ikhwan of Hind and Sind Syedna Sulaiman Sahib and his companions have written many many books that debate the issue that a Nass can not be verbal based on witnesses, a documented parchment with the authority of the Dai is a must one who does not have same must not be followed and it must be known that he is a leader to the path of destruction of the soul.

Today after 429 years again we stand in the same situation where Abdullah bin Mohammed (present so called Dai) having four witnesses in closed rooms all four the sons of Syedna Muqaddas out of whom not even one is a Hadd or Mulla claims proudly to be the successor and Dai without a written document (the Holy Nass) he and his henchmen in Hind Sind and Arab openly declare that a Nass is not required or as per times it may not be necessarily documented,… whereby we Sulaimanis are a sect formed on the pretext of having a documented Nass and refuting claims of any verbal Nass from the time of the prophet till today.

Followers of Sulaiman bin Hasan it is our appeal to you do not repeat what our Dawoodi convert brothers did ! do not vain the sacrifices of Syedna Sulaimanji and his successors …do not follow personalities if you do not find the truth (Nass) with them …wait for the successor it is foolish to believe that Syedna Husain bin Ismail passed away without a Nass it is shamefull to accept such lies and a disgrace to his Holiness….
Which son hears or accepts ill about his father ?? have faith that the Nass is there and the successor is there ……follow the Nass then be it with a child, a man, or a women….do not give THEM the liberty to manipulate knowledge lest the Sulaiman of our times is suffering due to our ignorance and cowardice.

When in today’s time a Nass was demanded from Abdullah bin Mohammed he made the four witnesses write on a piece of paper their declaration and testimony that we bear witness that he is the Dai then it was send to the simple people of Hind and Sind saying that this is the Nass……………my brothers in faith you have not been shown or told the truth this paper of declaration is not a Nass it comes from four men and not from the Dai Syedna Husain bin Ismail ask for that paper and see who has signed the same is Syedna Muqaddas if yes then Abdullah bin Mohammed is a Dai and there are false claims against him but if it is signed by ordinary men then you have been deceived and lied upon.

http://www.openiu.com/upload/070721/521 ... 20d1dc.gif

خادم مــــولاه
الريبــــــــــال

Hussain_KSA wrote: Saifuddin Insaf Bhai,

"The present Dai of of Sulemani bohra sect (both hussaini & muheisini) is based in Mansooriya district of Najran, South of Saudi Arabia. Although it is with the border of Yeman but part of Saudi Arabia. Rest everything what you write about them are correct but recently there was some sort of problem on "Wajebat".

@Hussain_KSA Brother they are now divided in 4 groups as follows : 1. followers of Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulla al Udaini their present claimant to Daiship based on witnesses 2. followers of Sheikh Abu Mustafa the son of the previous Dai Hussain bin Ismail and also claimant of the Daiship 3. followers of Sheikh Mohsin bin Sheikh Ali al Mukrami a very strong candidate leader of the Mukrami clan and the son of the Dai Sheikh Ali also claimant of Daiship based on written Nass 4. al Musaaqqafoon a bunch of literates waiting for reform and unity in the entire community till then they follow no one and stick to the last Dai Husain bin Ismail ............

Yes if we divide them into the 2 major groups we can say they are 2 major groups the Udainis and Mohsinis........

best regards

Brother Ismaili

Thank you very much for your input. I learned that one magician is also claiming the daiship.

@Husain
brother Husain there is no truth in it as far i know these are the major groups that are standing against each other between the Sulaimani bohras that are clearly and openly debating the Nass affair............

Smart wrote:One thing we need to understand. It is a miracle, only if the Syedna is involved. When others are involved, it is just normal matters.

When the Syedna or his ilk are involved and condensation on the wall happens it is a mojiza. When it happens on my bathroom mirror on a cold day, it is a scientific phenomenon and quite normal.

We can go on and on. The mojizas are endless...

Who the heck said that it is a miracle that Syedna has lived to be 100? Who the heck said that it is a miracle that Syedna is active and healthy at the age of 100? Can you give a single quote from any Waaz by the DAI or any Hudoods?

^
Why are you picking up my replies from other threads? If you are able to read my post, we are talking about condensation of water. Quoting my replies out of context is a dishonourable thing to do.

My basic contention still remains valid. I don't have to quote any dai or hudood. It is the websites which are operated with the "raza" of the syedna who make these claims. Thus it is a valid conclusion that they are authenticated right from the top.

Smart wrote:^
Why are you picking up my replies from other threads? If you are able to read my post, we are talking about condensation of water. Quoting my replies out of context is a dishonourable thing to do.

My basic contention still remains valid. I don't have to quote any dai or hudood. It is the websites which are operated with the "raza" of the syedna who make these claims. Thus it is a valid conclusion that they are authenticated right from the top.

Any link to these quotes? And sorry for the quote, i meant to quote the post before mine.

Ismaili1000 wrote: such were their claims the Dawoodis could not debate such accuracy and honesty they took to harassing our community politically and took to pelting stones, throwing abuses and cutting off relations ……………their girls or boys were not allowed to marry with us a sister could not keep relations with her brother a mother could not meet her son if he was one of us they spat on our names and spoke about killing our people in cold blood !..........such were the akhlaaq of those who had lost the path of the righteous

Some things don't change I guess.

kimanumanu wrote:

Ismaili1000 wrote: such were their claims the Dawoodis could not debate such accuracy and honesty they took to harassing our community politically and took to pelting stones, throwing abuses and cutting off relations ……………their girls or boys were not allowed to marry with us a sister could not keep relations with her brother a mother could not meet her son if he was one of us they spat on our names and spoke about killing our people in cold blood !..........such were the akhlaaq of those who had lost the path of the righteous

Some things don't change I guess.

There are many other things that don't change !! Read this :-

Ismaili1000 wrote:they are now divided in 4 groups as follows : 1. followers of Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulla al Udaini their present claimant to Daiship based on witnesses 2. followers of Sheikh Abu Mustafa the son of the previous Dai Hussain bin Ismail and also claimant of the Daiship 3. followers of Sheikh Mohsin bin Sheikh Ali al Mukrami a very strong candidate leader of the Mukrami clan and the son of the Dai Sheikh Ali also claimant of Daiship based on written Nass 4. al Musaaqqafoon a bunch of literates waiting for reform and unity in the entire community till then they follow no one and stick to the last Dai Husain bin Ismail ............

Yes if we divide them into the 2 major groups we can say they are 2 major groups the Udainis and Mohsinis........