Muharram and Us

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Muharram and Us

#1

Unread post by accountability » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:12 pm

This year has begun, so has the muharram waez and majalis. Ashara for Bohras is being commenced in Mumbai India. Syedna sahib delivered his first waez on 3rd of muharram.
In my late childhood and youth days, I used to commemorate Muharram as a very solemn occasion, so did most of bohras in Karachi. It never looked like festive. Attending waez was important, but the real emphasis was on its message. We used to take muharram very seriously, we will put up sabeels not because of some exhibitionist zeal, which is now rampant but to show solidarity with Imam Hussain’s cause.
On on our sabeel I used to inscribe one verse from Maulana Mohammed Ali Jauhar.
Qatle hussain asl mein marge yazed hai
Islam zinda hota hai har karbala ke baad
We used to believe in that message. We thought Imam Hussain’s sacrifice was very important for justness , fair play and upholding justice. Hussain’s message of standing up against the tyrant and usurper was universally accepted. I would try to do something in those days in that spirit, so do many of my young friends. No one was forced to attend waez, but whoever was going had this seriousness about it. In waez, mostly our history was narrated. It did not use to be so rhetorical and repetitive as one of today’s but did elobrete on real message of Imam Hussain’s martyrdom. I had noticed that whenever Imam Hussain’s martyrdom was narrated, and it was just once at the end of the waez every one used to feel sad and overwhelmed by the magnitude of sacrifice.
The commemoration was in the spirit of events of Karbala, and not rhetorical. I do feel that since many years we are celebrating rather then commemorating Imam Hussain’s sacrifice. Our emphasis is more on exhibitionism than the capturing the real message of standing up against tyranny and exploitation. When I see people coming out of waez, they seem tired and exhausted. None would ever think of doing anything matching purpose or objective . Their mechanical rather robotic presence seems to be purposeless.
I hope that we revert back to commemorating this solemn occasion with respect and purpose it so rightly deserves.

Safiuddin
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#2

Unread post by Safiuddin » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:22 pm

I fully agree with you on this. I also went to vaez for a sole and solemn purpose - not to buy pictures of TUS to put on my masalla, or to eat savories, or to be part of a pageant. And when our history, pholisophy, and education were finished, then the vaezeen would start the azaa majlis. Note the clever rhetoric from TUS regarding Safar, and all of its benefits. The message is travel to these tamashas every year. That way they can make more money.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#3

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:33 pm

my earliest memories of moharram were the solemnity of the occasion. there was no radio allowed to be played in the house( there was no tv as yet). we wore simple clothes throughout those 10 days, we did not sing or laugh and at home only simple food was cooked, mainly daal and vegetables. we did not visit each other's houses to socialise or gossip and we listened to the vaiz quietly and wondered when our elders cried and felt sad at their grief.

when very young and sitting with my father in his friends' thaal, no one fell on the food and gorged as they do today. of course, they talked about business and other personal matters but everyone was subdued. and on ashura day, my heart used to be filled with dread and anticipation. after the ashura shahadat bayan was over and people went into sajda, my father would call out to me and we walked home a few kms away, (that day my dad never took his scooter, he preferred to punish himself) so that he could in some small but strange way assuage his grief and guilt at the sufferings of hussain. he never partook of the niyaz, he used to be too overcome with grief. i remember my mother always pleading with him to atleast have the sawaab of saying salawat over niyaz, but he would say, "can you eat when someone so close to you has died in such tragic circumstances?" i held my fathers hand and we walked home in complete silence. i could feel his emotion and the depth of his sorrow. once home, he drank some water and went off to sleep. those were very powerful impressions on a young mind. i waited until my mother and sisters came home, she would invariably get some niyaz food for me as she knew i would be hungry.

whenever my father spoke about hussain or the greatness of the illustrious ali, his voice quivered with emotion. he did did best to live his life according to their ideals; avoided rich and excessive foods, believed in simplicity and austerity, wore simple clothes, preferred to remain silent rather than speak a lie and spoke courageously against injustice, oppression and tyranny, although he had served the community in various capacities. that is why he was always in the bad books of the amil and the 'establishment'.

such were the examples of good behaviour i remember, compared to what we see today - hypocrisy, lies, false praise, money grabbing and a festive atmosphere.

questions
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: Muharram and Us

#4

Unread post by questions » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:43 pm

Sobering thoughts indeed. I also remember it being very simple and sombre at home during Muharram. No music or any festive food for a long time especially immediately after Ashura - not even bright lights. It is true that we seem to have an on/off switch. We should remember and commerate the aftermath of Ashura - which was even more of a tragedy when the ladies and children of the haram were looted. It does not serve the Kothar's purpose to commerate anything but the Shahadat of Imam Hussain . Unfortunately, that has been trivalized through daily repetition. A tragedy indeed....

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#5

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:54 am

Zulfiqar
I can understand your feelings and thoughts. I was in mumbai on weekend and I could see only celebrations everywhere and no comemoration..

In the evening i took a while off and started remembering the old days when muharram days were were filled with grief. We had self imposed a ban on entertainment for 40 days, no celebrations. I am personally highly indebted to those muharram days and the institute of majlis that it gave me a direction to think and ponder about Islam. But now things have changed and my biggest concern is its social impact on my children. However good conselling you can give to your children, the society in which you live has a big role in grooming them.

SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#6

Unread post by SBM » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:37 pm

shz. Sahib recited pur lutf zikar of shahdat of Imam Hussain

This is the quote from Zeninfosys from Waeez at Kuwait by a young (looks teenager, son of Shezaada
SINCE WHEN SHADAT OF IMAM HUSAIN HAS BECOME PUR LUTF (FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT know the meaning OF PUR LUTF, IT MEANS FULL OF ENJOYMENT) I THOUGHT SHADAT OF IMAM HUSAIN HAS TO BE A SOMBER AND REAL HEART WRENCHING AFFAIR
For more information visit zeninfosys website and see under" Janaab Shabbir Bs bin Shz Ammar Bhai Saheb Jamaluddin Saheb DM Presided over Ashara Mubarak 1431 3rd Moharram Fahaheel Kuwait"
What a sorry state of mocking the Shadat of Imam Husain and Ahle Bayt.

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#7

Unread post by JC » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:15 pm

NOW, Muharram is a Tamasha ........ a time to Portray and Paint Dai is you Sole Saviour ...... Cement the idea that Hussain is bohras Christ and Dai is his appointed Astople .........

Bohraism is mixture of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam PLUS innovations and additions. At best it is a Cult.

So do not try to find old Muharram days in Today's Bohra religion, gone are the days ......!!!!!!

In one of current vaaz (yes, I go to hear what the crap is going on, and yes, I have a cumpulsion to go .... I am stucked) and I heard old man in relay .......

Khuda Ay Manay Nake Farzandoo Aapa Chay ....... Jay Ghanee Nashat See Mumineen Ni Khidmat Karee Rahee Chay ....

And I could not stop smiling ....... and thinking, what a bunch of lies ....... Nake Farzandoo, dah .... yes, they are just like Sons of Saddam ........... and they are Ghanee Nashat See Mumineen See Khidmat Laee Rahee Chay ....

Just Selling Hussain and Matam ............ Kothar wants to keep this ISSUE alive and burning ......!!!!!!!!!!! It is same as BJP wants to keep Ram Mandir issue alive, same as Pak Army wants to keep Kashmir alive, Bush wanted terrorism and Osama alive ............ they want SOMETHING to which they can call masses ....... an Emotional Idea .......

Rest is all Power and Money Politics

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#8

Unread post by Mubarak » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:33 am

JC wrote:NOW, Muharram is a Tamasha ........ a time to Portray and Paint Dai is you Sole Saviour ...... Cement the idea that Hussain is bohras Christ and Dai is his appointed Astople .........

Bohraism is mixture of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam PLUS innovations and additions. At best it is a Cult.

So do not try to find old Muharram days in Today's Bohra religion, gone are the days ......!!!!!!

In one of current vaaz (yes, I go to hear what the crap is going on, and yes, I have a cumpulsion to go .... I am stucked) and I heard old man in relay .......

Khuda Ay Manay Nake Farzandoo Aapa Chay ....... Jay Ghanee Nashat See Mumineen Ni Khidmat Karee Rahee Chay ....

And I could not stop smiling ....... and thinking, what a bunch of lies ....... Nake Farzandoo, dah .... yes, they are just like Sons of Saddam ........... and they are Ghanee Nashat See Mumineen See Khidmat Laee Rahee Chay ....

Just Selling Hussain and Matam ............ Kothar wants to keep this ISSUE alive and burning ......!!!!!!!!!!! It is same as BJP wants to keep Ram Mandir issue alive, same as Pak Army wants to keep Kashmir alive, Bush wanted terrorism and Osama alive ............ they want SOMETHING to which they can call masses ....... an Emotional Idea .......

Rest is all Power and Money Politics
Who makes Mohrram as Tamasha?

In Udaipur city of Rajasthan, India – when a Sunni sect follower dies his community members take his coffin procession till graveyard like all religions/sects of the world with sorrow and sad heart, in that procession no one beats multi drums, no one smoke bidi’s/cigarette’s, no one shouts, etc

Sunni soldiers of King Yazid to celebrate their victory over Imam Hussain (a.s.) took a procession in which they carried spears with heads of all 72 martyrs, beat multi drums (naggada) to express their happiness and to attract crowd, made noise and celebrated during the entire procession, and also shouted ‘Allah ho Akbar’ during that procession.

In Udaipur, Dawoodi Bohra Youth (progressives) on the day of Aashura, to protest the murder of Imam Hussain (a.s.) by Sunni soldiers takes a procession on road from Moiyadpura mosque till Vazipura mosque with black flag and through-out procession recite ‘marsiyas’.

In Udaipur, Sunni sect remembers murdering of Imam Hussain same way like Sunni soldiers of Yazid then did. In their procession they carry spears and pierce lemon on the blade of those spears as heads are now not available and enjoy the feelings when lemon juice comes out as if blood from the head. Through-out their procession they beat multi drums (naggada) make noise, smoke bidi’s and cigarettes and enjoy through-out, and also shouts ‘Allah ho Akbar’.

It is not Dawoodi Bohras but your Sunni sect followers who make Moharram as tamasha.

accountability
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#9

Unread post by accountability » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:42 am

Mubarak you take things out of context and start name calling. We were all refering to seriousness of the event in the context of bohra community. Please let the thread remain to its original subject.
Admin, May I request you to delete mubarak's above post, because it unneccessarily hurts the feelings of our sunni brothers, and this is out of context.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#10

Unread post by Mubarak » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:59 am

accountability wrote:Mubarak you take things out of context and start name calling. We were all refering to seriousness of the event in the context of bohra community. Please let the thread remain to its original subject.
Admin, May I request you to delete mubarak's above post, because it unneccessarily hurts the feelings of our sunni brothers, and this is out of context.

Hello Accountability,

JC: "Bohraism is mixture of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam PLUS innovations and additions. At best it is a Cult."

When JC write against Bohras fatih does not that hurt Dawoodi Bohras feeling?

You are very concerned for Sunni brother feelings but when Sunni writes against the Bohras feeling that is not "out of context".

What Dawoodi Bohra r u? JC is making WC of your Bohrism faith! And instead of countering him you are pulling my leg!

I have not intended to particiapte in these threads. But JC wrote severely agains the faith of Bohras and he provoked me to counter. JC derailed your "serious" topic. And you are protecting him and countering me. It is very unfair Accountability on your part.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#11

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:25 am

Brother Mubarak,

You fail to see that what the majority of reformist minded bohras criticise here is not the Udaipuri Bohra Reformist Jamaat, but the present orthodox community under the corrupt leadership of the syedna and his administration which is playing around with our money and our religion. What accountability and JC are referring to is the crap which is going on during moharram since last 2-3 decades in the syedna led community.

You may represent the Udaipuri reformists and thus in your perspective the pristine and original traditions and practices of our faith, but there is no need to confuse anything 'bohra', with an attack on yrself or yr jamaat. This is causing confusion here on this forum and unncessarily inflaming passions. Since this is a public forum, we need to conduct ourselves with a certain modicum of diplomacy and restraint. Your sentiments in defending the shohodas and attacking their assassins may be admirable, but we are now 1400+ years down the road and need to set our differences aside in the larger interests of islam and humanity.

Take it easy brother, and let us all pay homage to your dear wife by practising the art of gentleness and kindness, which I am sure she personified.

ozmujaheed
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#12

Unread post by ozmujaheed » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:29 pm

How unfortunate that if we all agree Husain AS was the Grandson of the Prohet and he gave up his life and family to protect the Islam his Grandfather worked so hard to establish and he Husain, Ali lived by Muhammads principles, and not to create a separate flavour of Islam for a few of us .

What Islam ? well Muhammad and his his family risked everything to create an institution that abolished human oppression, mythology, pagan rituals which has no value to human development and established a foundation for logical thinking that triggred an Islamic civilisation and expansion .

What have we ended up after 1400 years. divided, intolerant in all forms and ways of anything , cursing one another, subjects of priests and chiefs belief in dieties and saints the very stuff he wanted to prevent ...well done Mumineen so called Shias and Sunnis well done..when you say ya Husain remember why was he martyred and if he was here today would he appreciate what we have ended up doing with and misusing his sacrifice ...reflect reflect

JC
Posts: 1624
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Muharram and Us

#13

Unread post by JC » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:13 pm

If Hussain were to alive today .............. he would certainly 'regret' what he did in Karbala ....!!!!

Bohras chant Bud Umat, Bud Umat for Sunnis and others who were 'supposedly' responsible for Hussain's murder ... but what are they doing????

Today Islam is a commodity, a product, and it comes in various sizes, colours, forms and even change in ingridients. Buy Wahabi Doctrine, and get Islam free, buy Suuni Version and get Islam free, buy Shia Opinion and get Islam free, Buy Bohraism and get Islam free, additional Janat if you buy Purjosh Matam ........!!!!!

Islam is for Free ..........

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4618
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

This moharram in general..

#14

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:45 am

the 10 days of this years moharram have come and gone and in my observation, atleast from my vantage point, i see an even more general trivialisation of the actual events of the shahadat. of course this has been gradually going on since last 2 decades or more, but its more obvious than before that the syedna and his sons and their paid lackeys, the amils, have now systematically reduced moharram to the point of ridicule and a highly expedient tool for emotional manipulation, money grabbing and brainwashing.

of course, the actual narration and analysis of the moral and ethical reasons leading to imam hussain and his family sacrificing their lives is never ever mentioned, not even in passing. it is not important and in fact dangerous to the cause of the kothar. in toronto, during the post noon session, the zaada idris, out of the 2 hours before maghrib, kept saying only one line and its umpteen variations... 'bawaji saheb ghana khush thase tamaru maatam joyne", 'aaje hussain par aansoo ane gham lutawi dejo', 'mangi lejo, hussain daatar che'.. etc etc blah blah and blah. after every line there was maatam for 5-10 mins. nothing of substance was said. only when around some 30-40 mins remained, he got into recounting the last few hours of ashura events, but the manner in which he went about it, aaya, gaya, shaheed thaya, te baad, phalana gaya...was so pedestrian and devoid of feelings and so unreal that it actually appeared that he was least interested in whatever he was doing and was in a hurry to get the whole infernal business over with!! even the maatam lacked any gham as the public had no motivation. the whole thing was such a forced affair and a torture to observe and sit through.

this trivialisation of the very raison d'etre of moharram is a tauheen of the shohoda and a clear sign of where we are being led. the entire focus was on syedna and his father and their words and efforts to 'celebrate' moharram. my heart bled to see our gullible bohras being made fools of in such a cruel and heartless manner and the way the sacrifices of the shohodas have been reduced to a mere hurried recounting of events, like a reuters teleprinter report! this idris zaada, i swear to Allah, did not shed a single tear throughout his bayan and displayed no emotion or feelings for those who had so valiantly given their lives for islam and their ideals.

where is this community going? have we stopped thinking for ourselves? are we being deliberately led by Allah towards destruction, damnation and hell?

Hussain_KSA
Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

Re: This moharram in general..

#15

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:13 am

When people used to get hysteric to hear or see Syedna one used to think it was like people's craziness or rather idiosyncracies of emotional fools. The guy himself declared yesterday that he is the Messiah and knows whatever we do or think and he just does not declare about our deeds or misdeeds. Only the other day, he was asking for watch as he did know the time and the watch near him had stopped. When you bloody need a watch to know the time, how could you know about things or people not in front of you.

One of the added myths to the Ashura bayan's is that we have been told that it happened on a Friday where the fact is that the day was Tuesday, You can go to any website having hijri converter and that will give this day. Plus, our Sahifa has a complete jadwal from Hijri 1 to Hijri 1600 showing what were the first day of each month in the last 1400 years and that also shows Muharram in 61 Hijri starting on Sunday meaning the Ashura was on Tuesday.

The myths have been piled up and all of us were made to believe them to be true.

neutralbohri
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:01 am

Re: This moharram in general..

#16

Unread post by neutralbohri » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:49 am

Zulfiqar Bhai, You have so aptly put in words what I have been feeling for the way Bohras observe and commemmorate Ashura every year. This year too, in Bangalore, we had the Mazoon of Dawat here doling out the same crap day after day.

Self praise and more self praise. What a mockery of karbala they have made!!

broadminded
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: This moharram in general..

#17

Unread post by broadminded » Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:49 am

Brothers..I am happy that I did not waste my time going to the gathering, although friends asked me to atleast attend the ashura aft. Learned alot listening to the majalis at Shia Centre on Bathurst and online lectures of great Allama Talib Johari and Allam Abu Talib Tatabatai.

questions
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:11 pm

Re: This moharram in general..

#18

Unread post by questions » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:50 am

I learnt a lot this weekend from idris bhai sahab on the 9th day waez - especially what foods to eat and what they do in your body- how rice is good for you - although I suspect that the early muslims in Arabia did not have white rice ...I think the greatest lesson was not to go to any Bohra farce of a majlis next year.

ghulam muhammed
Posts: 11653
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Muharram and Us

#19

Unread post by ghulam muhammed » Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:54 pm

I too recollect the days when utmost care was taken by the elders to preserve the sanctity of this solemn month. Radios and movies were a strict no, sabils and its organisors were honest in maintaning the sanctity and true purpose of sabil i.e. to give water from a modest enclosure. As years passed by, sabils became a status symbol and every organisor did his best to outshine the other sabils by decorating it with chandeliers, by keeping pigeons and even deers in the sabils and by serving lavish foods in niyaz.

Many bohras and mostly the youngsters never missed the shia vayez at Moghul Masjid which was from 9pm to 10pm presided by Molana Mirza Athar. The Moghul Masjid was almost 50% full of bohras. Here it is interesting to note that Molana Athar never called the bohras to his vayez but they came willingly and full heartedly whereas bohras attended their own vayez out of compulsion due to which they slept most of the time and were even forced to close their business.

With passage of time Mohurrum lost its purpose within the bohras as it was reduced to a celebration rather then commemoration. I remember that there was one bohra commitee which did niyaz at the biggest bohra hall i.e. Najam Baug and the entry passes were sold at a premium. The reason being that, HOLD YOUR BREADTH.... Almost 7 thaals were changed during the course of dinner and every thaal had almost 5 different types of kharas and mithas i.e. the first thaal would be filled with 5 different bowls of icecream, 2nd thaal with 5 different types of chicken, 3rd thaal with 5 different types of mithai, another thaal with different types of pulao and the last thaal with only dryfruits. After sometime, this lavish display of food in this solemn month invited lots of criticism due to which after a few years instructions were issued by the then mukasir Salehbhai saab to stop this niyaz altogether. Although one evil was eradicated but in its place various other innumerable evils in the form of devising new methods of collecting huge sums of money started.