Problems in USA,Canada and UK jamaats

[like_minded]

to make even 2 ppl agree to a point is impossible..how can u make 1000's go in 1 direction if u dont be a lil strict.........

Why the hell try to make 2 people agree to a point? Let them have their own point of view!! In the same way...why is the need to make 1000's go in 1 direction? Unless ofcourse you benefit out of it!! Let them decide their own path/direction and carry on....

[guy_sam2005]

to make even 2 ppl agree to a point is impossible..how can u make 1000's go in 1 direction if u dont be a lil strict.........

Why the hell try to make 2 people agree to a point? Let them have their own point of view!! In the same way...why is the need to make 1000's go in 1 direction? Unless ofcourse you benefit out of it!! Let them decide their own path/direction and carry on....

to do that you dont need a religion or mosque or god either....u have to be a atheist

[Human]

to make even 2 ppl agree to a point is impossible..how can u make 1000's go in 1 direction if u dont be a lil strict.........

Why the hell try to make 2 people agree to a point? Let them have their own point of view!! In the same way...why is the need to make 1000's go in 1 direction? Unless ofcourse you benefit out of it!! Let them decide their own path/direction and carry on....

to do that you dont need a religion or mosque or god either....u have to be a atheist

May I say that I know many atheists who are better humans. They are humanitarian workers and devote a major part of their life helping the needy and serving the community (not like DB shit but people in general). I think they are better of not following a religion or god and being better people rather than idiots like you who are pathetic blind fools. Have you ever helped a poor person? Have you ever done something for the sake of humanity?
(Attending majlis and paying zakat doesn't count!)

[merchant786]

Hey human,

Dont forget that guy sam has helped the poor syedna every month.He has given him a lot of money to maintain his bentley and posh palaces and also helped by giving his skin to make jootis....And syedna has given him Gaib nu ilm...a tight kick on his ass for not paying more and also a no entry to saifee hospital...

Common sam ...do reply some absurd nonsense....

[guy_sam2005]

Hey human,

Dont forget that guy sam has helped the poor syedna every month.He has given him a lot of money to maintain his bentley and posh palaces and also helped by giving his skin to make jootis....And syedna has given him Gaib nu ilm...a tight kick on his ass for not paying more and also a no entry to saifee hospital...

Common sam ...do reply some absurd nonsense....

no thanks i am no match for u in nonsense..i accept my defeat here......maybe human can give u good fight here...

[Human]

Hey human,

Dont forget that guy sam has helped the poor syedna every month.He has given him a lot of money to maintain his bentley and posh palaces and also helped by giving his skin to make jootis....And syedna has given him Gaib nu ilm...a tight kick on his ass for not paying more and also a no entry to saifee hospital...

Common sam ...do reply some absurd nonsense....

no thanks i am no match for u in nonsense..i accept my defeat here......maybe human can give u good fight here...

There is nothing to fight about guy_sam. We all express our own views on this forum and I'm of the opinion that my views match more with those of merchant786 rather than yours. Having arguements on this forum is not about having a fight or joke debates. The purpose I think is rather to share mutual knowledge, experience and current affairs of dawoodi bohra community.

[like_minded]

to do that you dont need a religion or mosque or god either....u have to be a atheist

"Religion" today.. as I view it....... is a concept in place to keep control over the masses. Nothing more!

Those who have faith in God do not necessarily follow any religion nor they feel the need to exhibit their faith in God. The problem with majority followers and especially blind followers of syedna is that... they actually have no clue what religion is!! That's the irony... and therefore indulge in all kind of ridiculous rituals... In short religion today has reduced into ritualistic nonsense.

Guy... the problem with your likes... is that you guys are hell bent on labeling.... eg ... mumin, kafir, sunni, wahabi, hindu, atheist ...etc etc.... what you do not comprehend is the larger picture...... you guys are stuck .... you need to grow up... understand... analyze... and see for yourself.... but before that...throw out all the rubbish accumulated in your head.... just throw it out... U know... once you start fresh.... You will understand what is religion... otherwise you'll be stuck with what's already fed into you...and therefore never get close to truth.

[homs]

I have heard that there are lot of problems going on in the jamaats in this countries.I recently stumble upon a insider in Kothar and he confirmed that there have been many cases in which people have stopped coming to jamaats and even stopped paying the money.

Can someone put a highlight on this?

Some problems have been going on in Kuwait and Dubai jamaats too since past 1 yr. Got to get more details.

[merchant786]

We have some areas in Mumbai as well...but I really dont remember the names as I am not staying in India....

I had recently bumped upon a group from some Mahad or that sort when I last triped to India and they were as well pretty upset with the aamil there as he asks money on every other occasions now and not just Ramzaan and Muharram.

[Smart]

^
Show me where a Bohra jamaat exists and I will show you, where extortion problems exist.

We are all getting into the trap set by the abdes.
They claims that there are some bad sheep, it is the Syedna who is Kal masoom. Actually the problem starts at the top, the small time local functionaries are just that "small time". The problems are everywhere and the source of the rot is right at the top.

[merchant786]

Its not Mahad...Its some MALAD in Mumbai...

[Conscíous]

[/color]

Guy
So you agree that all Bohras aka ABDES are sheep WOW you finally agreed what has been discussed on this forum.

yes we are and moula(tus)s our shepard.....

"Feed my sheep" Oh yes, perhaps after all like other good men he was a cynic. "Feed them well, make them fat, so that they can be eaten in their turn." " The Lord is my shepherd." But if we are sheep why in heaven's name should we trust our shepherd? He is going to guard us from the wolves, alright, oh yes, but only so that he can sell us later to the butcher.
-Graham Greenewe

[profastian]

Well then why is it that we are reducing in numbers day by day

Do you have any hard numbers supporting you claim? The situation is in fact quite the contrary.

[zak]

Dear Friends,

what are the problems in your community that i read about as a elite a very esteemed group: , educated and academically and intellectually advanced , great business sense and financially successful , a chartiable ,caring and close group.

Whats the real problems. Please help me understand . Thanks in advance

[ozmujaheed]

zak your blogs look suspicious ...you are more likely another Abde in disguise

elite a very esteemed group: , educated and academically and intellectually advanced , great business sense and financially successful , a chartiable ,caring and close group.Whats the real problems. Please help me understand .

This site has tons of issues and you still need clarification.

let me clarify

esteemed group- who has bestowed that honor, its so easy to get carried away by self prophesy, and have a propaganda spin ?

educated and academically and intellectually advanced - how can that be true if we have lost the use of pragmatism and allow to be led by raza and have you heard our sermons and myths, simple point we still believe in hidden Imams, somebody will hold our hand into heaven, hunt wildlife for fun

great business sense and financially successful - we are more traders than businessmen, a business men buys a commodity, adds value and the sells, most of us only open a carton and sell a whole sale item at retail price over a counter as traders.financially successful compared to who ? Bohras have grown as the global economy has advanced materially, we still have a high proportion of poverty in the developing nations .

, a chartiable ,caring and close group - caring for ourselves, charitable to Kothar and closed as a cult.

[zak]

your community has highest literacy rates in india. it is widely know and true that your peoples are financially extremely shrewd and also successful . your various clinics , hospitals and social agencys help many . I am not a bohra , just an outsider looking with some envy .

I am trying to understand :
1] what are the problems
2] why you have these issues that are not dealt with and allowed to fester .
3] how can you progress with unresolved divisions within your closed knit community

thank you

[SBM]

Zak
I am trying to understand :
1] what are the problems
2] why you have these issues that are not dealt with and allowed to fester .
3] how can you progress with unresolved divisions within your closed knit community

And exactly how do you plan to help before we open our guts to you specially if you are not a Bohra?
You have asked way too many questions on lot of threads without explaining your intentions. I am skeptic by nature.

[zak]

i was researching / learning about various Shia sects ... and trying to understand true Islam .
when i goggled Bohra i hit a few " religious type sites " and also this one . therefore i am asking a few simple questions , so i can learn more . i read a lot of great stuff about this small but very close , materially and hopefully spiritual successful group.. thats i have posted above .. So i wondered what are the problems and why ?? If you chose not to share , thats your choice.

[mumin]

zak, the problem is transparancy. wakf means money and property donated to the clergy for the benifit of the community. but the forced upon donations which are coined ''WAJEBATS'' compulsory donations are only used by the royal family of the clergy to live a life of extra extra luxury instead of benifit for the common man.

[zak]

zak, the problem is transparancy. wakf means money and property donated to the clergy for the benifit of the community. but the forced upon donations which are coined ''WAJEBATS'' compulsory donations are only used by the royal family of the clergy to live a life of extra extra luxury instead of benifit for the common man.

what about zakat for charity and the poor. thats from quran. Is that wajebat or wakf ? whats the percentage of wealth 2.5 % ?

[mumin]

the wajebat money is on top of zakat. zakat is to be used for the poor and needy . can you go to the bohri clergy and ask him to give you an account of where he is spending all the 2.5% zakat , the wajebaat, sabil , salams, hub, sila fitra etc money that he recieves in millions every year. have you come across any bohri orphanage?

[zak]

the wajebat money is on top of zakat. zakat is to be used for the poor and needy . can you go to the bohri clergy and ask him to give you an account of where he is spending all the 2.5% zakat , the wajebaat, sabil , salams, hub, sila fitra etc money that he recieves in millions every year. have you come across any bohri orphanage?

surely only zakat is compulsory . i dont know the other terms. are they optional donations for charity , or for a purpose like building a mosque or for youth education programs etc etc

i am not in any position to ask bohra clergy . i dont pay . i am not a member . just learning about Islam , shias , ismailis and dawoodi bohras.

you are such a small closed knit community that maybe orphans are adopted within the group. I dont know if there are any bohra orphanages . why dont you tell me or should i goggle and research ?

[SBM]

Zak.
just learning about Islam , shias , ismailis and dawoodi bohras.

Zak
I thought you were trying to learn about Bohras now you mentioned that you are just learning about ISLAM. So you are not Muslim?

[aqs]

i was researching / learning about various Shia sects ... and trying to understand true Islam .
when i goggled Bohra i hit a few " religious type sites " and also this one . therefore i am asking a few simple questions , so i can learn more . i read a lot of great stuff about this small but very close , materially and hopefully spiritual successful group.. thats i have posted above .. So i wondered what are the problems and why ?? If you chose not to share , thats your choice.

you are at the right place to learn about problems, because it is always better to talk to some disgruntled person his perspective and then make it clear from the other side of story.

between y are u so interested in problems faced by us, any particular reason, or u wanna be next Jonah Blank though in the negative way

[zak]

what a silly comment . anyways are bohras really muslims . ? if they are forced to pay over and above required zakat ? then there is corruption in collecting , accounting for , and spendings the $$$$$
IS IT a sect of Islam or a bu$ine$$ ???

[bensaheba]

Dear Zak:

Of course the DBs are muslims, to be a muslim all you have to do is to recite the kalema tus Shahadat with your heart. and we do it in Azaan every time we pray namaaz as a minimum. For you to doubt our muslim-ness is lack of this understanding on your part.
If you are a christian, hindu, muslim or a jew we will not force you to convert to be a DB. But once you take the misaq(oath, Covenant) of our religion, then they can force you to adhere to it. Which includes paying zakat and other actions which other people make a mockery off. When Imam went into seclusion, his instructions for Dai(S) was to taqke care of his flock, he was not given the mission of Tabligh (to invite people of other religions to join ours). That is the reason Dai doesn't do it even though the word Dai means inviter. But Dai will not refuse anyone if he walks in and wants to convert for a reason(marriage) or no reason and will administer the oath ceremony.

[mumin]

zak for your information, bensaheba and bhaisahebs do not pay any wajebats, like sabil etc. They rely on the money which ,if you become a d.b. will have to pay so they can live their lavish life style. and you dare not ask where the money was spent.

[shabbir4u]

Hello guys,

I am new in this board I been in US for last 15 yrs and havent seen any problem in US jamaat.

[Jamali]

Alsalam Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

I am also new to this forum. I just wanted to comment on Bensahebas comments.

If Dai means "inviter" and if the Imam asked him to take care of his flock, Doesnt it obviously mean expand the Ummah if he can?? Isnt that what Islam is about? Preaching the good word of Allah and taking people to the right path? Dai or leader is someone who is there for its people...to address their issues, concerns etc in order to safeguard the welfare of its people. That hold trues for any "leader!" True that he cant reach each and everyone of us and thus has appointed "persons in authority" to help reach out to us. However a true leader stays in touch with its surrounding and any issues are discussed. If that was the case how come "reformists" exist and there exist problems in Jammaats? When an Amil is deported or sent back why doesnt anyone intervene from the top to find out whats wrong? Honestly tell me which true community or faith forces people to pay a certain amount of Sabil and Wajeebaat? Christians as a community have a Sunday Mass where a donation hat is passed for anyone to contribute. For Muslims in Mosques the same exists. In Ismailis they sell food to their community members and then donate that money to the welfare. Noone is forced to give a fixed amount of money?

The second part you mentioned was that accepts anyone who joins the community...You didnt elaborate that after payment of a certain amount of money!!! I had a relative who wanted to get married to a Bohri girl in the UK and was told that the marriage was only possible upon parting 15000 pounds! Also not all marriages are allowed ans sometimes people are advised to change their choice of spouses based on the families contribution to the jamaat. These are real life scenarios not stories.

With regard to whether the problems exist or not...Well the truth be told is that it has become a normal scenario in a Bohora household to go back to the Bhaisaheb to discuss the issue of reducing the Sabeel and Wajebat which are increased every year in Jammaats all over the world. Because of family issues and fear of being thrown out of the community people fearfully pay up what is demanded. Some of the "fanatics" on this site are the same ones who go for request for reduction. If you can afford it, then, yeh, by all means pay up for the benefit of the community but dont force it down peoples throats!! There are people out there trying to make ends meet and every penny counts! Again these are real life scenarios and not stories and try siting with a group of Bohoras and see how these issues are discussed!! Just because you havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt happen!!!!!

[bensaheba]

Dear Mr. Jamali: Welcome to the forum,I am only a couple of postings older than you here. I read your background of suffering over 3 generations at the hands of Amils and his goons. Sorry about that. I myself am a renegade bensaheba, very disgusted with what is going on in all our jamaats. If my husband the bhaisaheb found out that I visit here then I won't remain a bensaheba either.
The basic problem of Maola not doing anything about all the bad things is that the people surrounding him will not allow any bad news to reach his tender ear and more tender heart, he is given only fateh mubin news all the time and thats how you live to be 100 years old. All his tasks are delegated to his 7 sons and other close relatives(i.e,brothers). So, we have a lot of mini-dai(s). Even naming the baby duty is assigned to one of his sons. Since they are doing it with his raza then in the minds of bohras it is the same.
one time accidentally Maola found out that Shahzada saheb was asking people to do 5-7 lakhs salaams to Aqa Maola for misaq of their kids, Maola got very upset and cancelled the misaq that day. next day he took misaq with freedom to people to do salaams whatever they like. I heard that in LA the amil wanted each family to contribute $10,000 for Maola's arrival for masjid iftetah but after the visit of a shahzada saheb the amount was increased to $14,000 per family. This obviously shows the greed of the shahzadas not Aqa Maola. Hadiyat najwa is also under the control of shahzadas and Maola has no knowledge as to what is being asked for najwa, shahzada write $52,000 for some,@72,000for others and over $100,000 for other fat cats. Where does it all go????
it all goes in buying palatial homes in every country of the world in the most exclusive neighborhoods and in most touristy cities so that their youngster have a place to romp. all these properties and thousands of normal homes are bought in the name of Dawat-e-Hadiyah which is tax free organization. Every big city aamil has several home in their cities to oversee and take care of. The income from these rental places again goes into that tax free account, no one benefits except the royal family members from this income.If Maola knew how much property is owned by his organization or how much of the money is hiding in Swiss bank and how much money is hiding in interest bearing accounts he surely will have a heart attack. But like I said earlier he is kept unaware and only given the very sanitized news. None of us have any good solutions for this,but we must stay with Maola.