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Console
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:35 pm
by listner1
My friend has lost his father and so he is very much depressed ...i want to console him....please guide me how to console him ?
Re: Console
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2003 4:11 am
by humble_servant_us
Peace be upon u...
Indeed it is a sad and difficult moment for ur friend...At this time i think it is very difficult to console someone using words...What i think is spend some time with him which will help him to overcome his lonliness and depression...
Due to his father's dealth if there is some financial crisis on him , and if it is possible for u to help him, do help him...
Lastly ask Allah(swt) to pour patience on him and pray for him....
Accept my condolence too...
Hs
Re: Console
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:19 am
by anajmi
If your friend is a muslim, ask him to pray to allah for his father that may god forgive him and send him to heaven and ask him to read the quran and dedicate it to his father.
Re: Console
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 4:46 am
by Danish
Dear listner:
It doesn't matter whether your friend is a Muslim or not. He is a human being just like you are and besides he is a friend. All you can do is to comfort him. My advice is to never pray for the dead, for the dead's interum is over and that you were not responsible for his/her soul. You must pray for yourself, your friend, family members and all those whom you know and are alive, that they may redeem themselves and submit to GOD Alone for all of you will, one by one, return to HIM, just like your friend's dad did.
Remember, this life is a great test to become righteous and to stray away from all kinds of idol worship in order to reach the "gates of heaven". Once you are dead, your test is over and it becomes useless for anyone to pray for your sins as you were already given a "second chance". If you failed your second chance on this earth, then no prayer can help you nor anyone can intercede on your behalf. The same is true of your friend's dad.
Think of this as a regular test (first chance) that one gives in a classroom and then at the end of the year one gives his final test (second chance).
PEACE.
Re: Console
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:51 pm
by anajmi
Danish,
You can stop spitting garbage now cause it really stinks.
God says no one has the power to intercede except with his permission. So there will be people who will have God's permission to intercede. Who they are, apart from prophet Mohammed, I do not know.
So if you cannot say something to console cut the bs and spare us.
Re: Console
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:06 am
by Danish
Anajmi,
Well, lets see who is spitting garbage on whom:
there will be people who will have God's permission to intercede
Give proof from Quran that people will intercede.
apart from prophet Mohammed
Give proof from Quran that Muhammed will intercede.
So if you cannot say something to console cut the bs and spare us
With a bad mouth like yours, obviously you cannot be a console to anyone. Thus spare yourself first and know what you are talking about. Instead of calming down a friend, you in turn are trying to help a friend to "calm" a dead person by praying ignorantly for them. How stupid can you be.
Re: Console
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:02 am
by ponga bhori
Br Danish,
Keep it up. Interesting reading.
Re: Console
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:15 am
by Muddai
Listner,
As is quite evident from the responses to your post, you posted it on the wrong forum.
You know your friend and his grief better than anyone on this board. It is not a religious guidance, but one that comes from your heart and mind.
Best wishes.....
Re: Console
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:34 am
by Danish
Dear listner,
You know your friend and his grief better than anyone on this board. It is not a religious guidance, but one that comes from your heart and mind.
This is yet another good advice on this forum.
Re: Console
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:26 am
by nausicaa
Some period of depression and grief is normal after the death of a close relative, a person needs time to process the grief. What you can do is be there for him, let him know that there are others who he can depend on at this time of loss in his life. If you knew his father for long you could mention instances where he touched your life and emapathize with his loss. Whatever you do, don't try to belittle his grief by saying something like, at least he didn't suffer much or something like that. If he desires to be alone and not be bothered, I feel one should respect that too.
-N
Re: Console
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:01 am
by anajmi
Danish,
I thought you were the expert at quoting from the quran. Guess that is just to spread mischief huh!!
Anyway,
2:255
Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this wor ld, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî[] extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.]
10:3
Surely, your Lord is Allâh Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istawâ (rose over) the Throne, disposing the affair of all things. No intercessor except after His Leave. That is Allâh, your Lord; so worship Him (Alone). Then, will you not remember?
19:87
None shall have the power of intercession, but such a one as has received permission (or promise) from the Most Beneficent (Allâh).
20:109
On that day no intercession shall avail, except the one for whom the Most Beneficent (Allâh) has given permission and whose word is acceptable to Him.
Please let me know if you need more proof.
Then the second part where I say that the prophet is one who will have Allah's permission to intercede.
Now this deduction requires a little bit of brain, but I guess that shouldn't be expected of you
2:143
Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islâmic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a Wasat (just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind[] and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allâh guided. And Allâh would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allâh is full of kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.
The prophet has been described as been sent as a mercy to all mankind. So if anybody will have the right to intercede, it will be prophet Muhammed (sas). There may be others, but not before the prophet.
Re: Console
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:44 am
by Danish
Anajmi,
Once again, your understanding of the Quran is appalling and a twisted one. Check your Arabic.
2:255
Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this wor ld, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî[] extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.]
There is no "he" in the bold above. If GOD is the one who will choose whomsoever to intercede, how do you know it will be among the people and not among the jinns or angels. Here's a better explanation:
[2:255] GOD: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth.
Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great.
10:3
Surely, your Lord is Allâh Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istawâ (rose over) the Throne, disposing the affair of all things. No intercessor except after His Leave. That is Allâh, your Lord; so worship Him (Alone). Then, will you not remember?
No mention of people here.
19:87
None shall have the power of intercession, but such a one as has received permission (or promise) from the Most Beneficent (Allâh).
No mention of people here either and neither has GOD pointed out as to who will be the intercessor. Only GOD knows and not you.
20:109
On that day no intercession shall avail, except the one for whom the Most Beneficent (Allâh) has given permission and whose word is acceptable to Him.
No mention of people here either.
Please let me know if you need more proof.
I sure do as the none of the verses served your wishful claim.
Now this deduction requires a little bit of brain, but I guess that shouldn't be expected of you
2:143
Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islâmic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a Wasat (just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind[] and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allâh guided. And Allâh would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allâh is full of kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.
There is no mention of the name of prophet "Muhammad and his sunnah" in this verse above. Secondly, the verse talks about the messenger as a witness to his people on earth, not an intercessor in heavens. Besides the verse above carries too many parenthesized and opiniated version. Here's a more accurate one:
[2:143]
We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful.
The prophet has been described as been sent as a mercy to all mankind.
Muhammad CANNOT be merciful as he was only human and fallible, ONLY GOD is. Muhammad was a witness to his people as far as his message of the Quran is concerned. He didn't come down as an intercessor. Muhammad is long gone and dead. He doesn't know you and neither do you know him, so how will he intercede for you, me and the rest of the 'Muslims'.
So if anybody will have the right to intercede, it will be prophet Muhammed (sas). There may be others, but not before the prophet.
Again, that is only your claim as wrongfully understoond of the Quran and your wishful thinking.
[7:46] A barrier separates them, while the Purgatory is occupied by people who recognize each side by their looks. They will call the dwellers of Paradise: "Peace be upon you".
They did not enter (Paradise) through wishful thinking.
[7:47] When they turn their eyes towards the dwellers of Hell, they will say, "Our Lord, do not put us with these wicked people". (No Muhammad or anyone else here to intercede)
[15:3] Let them eat, enjoy, and
remain blinded by wishful thinking; they will find out.
[57:14] They will call upon them, "Were we not with you?" They will answer, "Yes, but you cheated your souls, hesitated, doubted, and became
misled by wishful thinking, until GOD's judgment came. You were diverted from GOD by illusions.
(Even if they call upon Muhammad or Syedena or Dai, it won't work)
Regarding intercession, check my previous posts, in case you overlooked.
Finally:
[7:53] Are they waiting until all (prophecies) are fulfilled? The day such fulfillment comes to pass, those who disregarded it in the past will say, "The messengers of our Lord have brought the truth. Are there any intercessors to intercede on our behalf? Would you send us back, so that we change our behavior, and do better works than what we did?" They have lost their souls, and their own innovations have caused their doom.
PEACE.
Re: Console
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:45 pm
by Khairan
Danish,
it doesn't rightly matter if the intercessor chosen by God is a man or a billygoat - the point is the Qur'an explicitly allows for the possibility that intercession is possible.
No one is arguing that intercession can occur without God's permission, for indeed NOTHING can occur without his leave, if you believe the Qur'an. Many scholars have postulated that intercession is in fact meant as an honour to the interceder, because if he is allowed by God to speak on another's behalf than he must certainly be a great soul. Hence the postualation that if there are any interceders, the Prophet will be foremost among them.
Also: if the Qur'an does not explicitly mention that "people" will intercede, neither does it say anywhere that they will not, so that lack of mention can hardly constitute "proof" for your argument.
In the end, the point is that the Qur'an does not say, as you claim, that no one can intercede for another; in fact it allows for the precise opposite.
salaam
Re: Console
Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 1:43 am
by Danish
Khairan,
Appreciate your thoughful answers and much of them I agree with. Please consider the verses below and let me know if the Quran is contradicting in itself:
[2:48] Beware of the day when no soul can avail another soul, no intercession will be accepted, no ransom can be paid, nor can anyone be helped.
[2:123] Beware of the day when no soul will help another soul, no ransom will be accepted, no intercession will be useful, and no one will be helped.
[2:254] O you who believe, you shall give to charity from the provisions we have given to you, before a day comes where there is no trade, no nepotism, and no intercession. The disbelievers are the unjust.
[9:80] Whether you ask forgiveness for them, or do not ask forgiveness for them - even if you ask forgiveness for them seventy times - GOD will not forgive them. This is because they disbelieve in GOD and His messenger. GOD does not guide the wicked people.
*9:80 If Muhammad could not intercede on behalf of his own uncles and cousins, what makes strangers who never met him think that he will intercede on their behalf? Abraham could not intercede on behalf of his father, nor could Noah intercede on behalf of his son (11:46 & 60:4).
[11:45] Noah implored his Lord: "My Lord, my son is a member of my family, and Your promise is the truth. You are the wisest of the wise."
[11:46] He said, "O Noah, he is not of your family. It is unrighteous to ask Me for something you do not know. I enlighten you, lest you be like the ignorant."
*11:46 Intercession is Satan's most effective bait to entice people into idol worship. However, Abraham could not help his father, nor could Noah help his son, nor could Muhammad help his own relatives (2:254, 9:80 & 114).
[11:47] He said, "My Lord, I seek refuge in You, lest I implore You again for something I do not know. Unless You forgive me, and have mercy on me, I will be with the losers."
[21:28] He knows their future and their past. They do not intercede, except for those already accepted by Him, and they are worried about their own necks.
[21:29] If any of them claims to be a god beside Him, we requite him with Hell; we thus requite the wicked.
[30:13] Their idols will have no power to intercede on their behalf; on the contrary, they will disown their idols.
[30:14] On the day when the Hour comes to pass, they will part company.
Note: Instead of intercession, they will part company.
[39:43] Have they invented intercessors to mediate between them and GOD? Say, "What if they do not possess any power, nor understanding?"
[40:18] Warn them about the imminent day, when the hearts will be terrified, and many will be remorseful. The transgressors will have no friend nor an intercessor to be obeyed.
[63:6] It is the same for them, whether you pray for their forgiveness, or not pray for their forgiveness; GOD will not forgive them. For GOD does not guide the wicked people.
[66:10] GOD cites as examples of those who disbelieved the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were married to two of our righteous servants, but they betrayed them and, consequently, they could not help them at all against GOD. The two of them were told, "Enter the Hell-fire with those who deserved it."
[74:48] The intercession of the intercessors will never help them.
By the way, just out of curiosity, who do you think will intercede on your behalf should your matter confront GOD.
PEACE.
Re: Console
Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:04 am
by anajmi
Danish,
I guess rashad latifa forgot to tell you that the quran was primararily sent down to earth for "people". Get that?
So if it does not explicitly mention jinns or angels, I won't be punished for assuming that it is referring to people.
I guess you are from amongst the jinn or the angels or was rashad khalifa one?
Everything else that you have quoted from the quran is out of context as usual so I won't bother replying.
Re: Console
Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:59 am
by Danish
Anajmi,
I guess rashad latifa forgot to tell you that the quran was primararily sent down to earth for "people". Get that?
It seems to me that you take things personally rather than conversing rationally. What Rashad forgot and what he did or did not, has nothing to do with me or you or anybody else. It is the message of the Quran that one must concentrate on. Don't worry about Rashad, he is dead. Worry about Quran for what its telling you and your own soul for what you are sent down here for in order to face GOD. Everyone will die out one by one, including you and myself, but not the Quran, by GOD's Will. If you have problem in understanding the Quran, then come forward and talk about it rationally, calmly and meaningfully, not accusingly by pointing others to be of jinns or angels or Rashadens or Muhammadens or Burhanuddens or latifatens. You will not be facing Rashad or Muhammad or Syedena or Dai or Ali or Hussain or Aga Khan or Bhudda or Ram Ram or John Pope or Jesus or billygoat or latifa, etc., etc. Present yourself with a little maturity when you talk about GOD's Words.
Everything else that you have quoted from the quran is out of context as usual so I won't bother replying.
Name one and stop playing games. Just because I exposed your quoted translation out-of-context, it doesn't mean that all translations are out-of-context. Try to study and understand the verses with your heart and mind whilst imploring GOD for HIS guidance. You will never be able to understand the Quran with anger and hatred.
PEACE.
Re: Console
Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 3:27 am
by anajmi
All right, I guess I stepped over the line. So I will rectify my post. Here goes.
The quran was primararily sent down to earth for "people". Get that?
So if it does not explicitly mention jinns or angels, I won't be punished for assuming that it is referring to people.
you are being extremely ignorant in assuming that the verses are for jinns or angels.
Everything else that you have quoted from the quran is out of context as usual so I won't bother replying. And I said - Everything else - so there is no point in me naming any one!!
Re: Console
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 1:17 am
by Muddai
The quran was primararily sent down to earth for "people". Get that?
Loud and clear....
...but then again why can't you "people" agree on giving this poor guy advice on how best to console his friend ?
So if it does not explicitly mention jinns or angels, I won't be punished for assuming that it is referring to people.
then the Bohras won't be be punished for assuming that it is referring to Dai, or the Christians won't be punished for assuming that it is referring to Jesus, and the Hindus...well you get the point....
I hope....
Re: Console
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 1:34 am
by anajmi
I get the point, but I think you did not.
Here is what I said in a prior post
The prophet has been described as been sent as a mercy to all mankind. So if anybody will have the right to intercede, it will be prophet Muhammed (sas). There may be others, but not before the prophet.
So yeah, it could be dai, jack the ripper etc etc, but who you think it would be will demonstrate your intellect.
Re: Console
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 1:36 am
by anajmi
As far as consoling is concerned, I did that in my first post on this thread. As far as agreeing is concerned, why can't you just agree with everything I say huh!! Get the point??
Re: Console
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 2:27 am
by Muddai
why can't you just agree with everything I say huh!!
I don't, and as even you will notice I don't use any Holy Book to ignorantly prove a point that does not exist.
Here is what I said in a prior post
...that is your opinion.....and I have come this far in life without necessarily believing your quotes, and I am doing well thus far.
...and you ? Hopefully just as well.
Re: Console
Posted: Fri May 02, 2003 1:48 pm
by quresh8719
Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim
"Say:'I seek refuge with the lord of day break,
From the evil that he created,
From the darkness when it is intense,
From the Witchcraft of the witch,
From the Envier when he envieth."
113-Surah Falaak
Greetings be to those who are the followers of righteous guidance.
I have a question to ask Dr. Syedna Muhammad Burhannudin(may Allah the all knowing and the all hearing bless him and all those who are the followers of the righteous guidance.) I hope one of the Bohras may be able to answer this question for me. I have read somewhere that the Bohra muslims and the sunnis or shias have a different Quran is this true??? They believe that some verse have been abrogated regarding Ali ibn Abu talib (may Allah the all knowing and the all hearing bless him and all those who are the followers of the righteous guidance.. Is this claim True. I hope i get several responses from all you people present there.
Thanking You,
Quresh
Re: Console
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 4:57 am
by Danish
In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
I seek refuge in GOD from Satan the cursed.
Salaams Quresh:
The Bohra's Quran is called "Diamul Islam". Except for a few sincere and the true, you will never find Bohras STUDYING and UNDERSTANDING the Quran. Sadly enough, they only give lip-sevice without perceiving and beliveing that whatever is said by their leader Syedena and his kin, must be true regardless, but have no idea what message the Quran is giving out to all mankind.
I am sincerely thankful to Almighty GOD, the Most Gracious Most Merciful, for showing me HIS true path, for making me a True Muslim and that before my life's end, I am out of darkness into lightness journeying towards HIM, waiting for HIS call, eveready, everwilling and without wavering. MAHSA-ALLAH, ALHAMDU-LILLAH.
GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE is Alone and has no partners. Be HE Glorified.
PEACE.
Re: Console
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 10:14 am
by quresh8719
Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim,
"And when Allah's Succour comes, And you see mankind entering Allahs religion, then hym the praises of your lord and ask his forgiveness, Your god is ever forgiving"
I Bear witness that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and isa is the messenger of Allah, and musa is the mesenger of Allah,and Lut is the mesenger of Allah, and Hud is the messenger of Allah and Ibrahim the friend of allah is his messenger and Adam the first prophet is his messenger and Sulaiman is his messengera and yaqub is his messenger and Yusuf is his messenger and Nuh is his messenger and Ali is the ally of Allah (May Allah the all knowing, the gracious, the beneficent bestow blessings on our messengers and scholars of islam)
Greetings be to those you are the folowers of righteous guidance
Dear Danish,
May Allah be pleased with you and all those whom you know, I did not get the real answer to my question yet what i want to know is that is the Bohra muslim quran diffrent from the sunni muslim quran or shia muslim quran or Rasad quran or khoja quran.
: And say "praise be to God who has never taken a son and who has never had a partner in His sovereignty and who has never had a supporter out of weakness" and proclaim His greatness constantly
please answer soon
Quresh
Re: Console
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 10:41 am
by Muslim
Originally posted by quresh8719:
I did not get the real answer to my question yet what i want to know is that is the Bohra muslim quran diffrent from the sunni muslim quran or shia muslim quran or Rasad quran or khoja quran.
The Quran is the same for all these groups except the Rashad Khalifa's followers who remove 2 verses from the end of Sura 9.
Re: Console
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 2:06 pm
by quresh8719
Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim,
Dear Muslim,
Greetings be to those who are the followers of righteous guifdance. Thank you for replying to my question.But i have to ask you Why is it that the Rashad followers omit the last two verses of Surah 9 in al Quranal Hakim "A messenger has come to you from among you who wants no hardship
to afflict you, and cares about you, and is compassionate towards
the believers, merciful. If they turn away, then say, 'Sufficient
for me is God, there is no god except He. I put my trust in Him.
He is the Lord with the great throne.' " does that not go against the promise of god to preserve the Quran Sharif[15:9] Absolutely, we have revealed the reminder, and, absolutely, we will preserve it.
[85:21-22] Indeed, it is a glorious Quran. In a preserved master tablet.
Re: Console
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 2:18 pm
by quresh8719
Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim
Dear Readers,
Greetings be to those who are the followers of righteous guidance. If the two verse of chapter nine are false it means that the challenge to meet i.e To create a single Surah of the like thereof is met and Allah Taala has been proclaimed wrong. As muslims still consider this verse a part of the quran and dont differentiate.
In hope of a reply
Quresh
Re: Console
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 4:35 pm
by Muslim
But i have to ask you Why is it that the Rashad followers omit the last two verses of Surah 9 in al Quranal Hakim "A messenger has come to you from among you who wants no hardship
to afflict you, and cares about you, and is compassionate towards
the believers, merciful. If they turn away, then say, 'Sufficient
for me is God, there is no god except He. I put my trust in Him.
He is the Lord with the great throne.' "
They omit those two verses because they claim there is a hadith that shows that the verses did not have sufficient witnesses at the time of compilation and because to them any verses praising Muhammad amounted to "idolatory".
It is worth noting that Rashad Khalifa produced two translations, the first of which does not omit the two verses.
does that not go against the promise of god to preserve the Quran Sharif
Depends on whether you interpret preservation as preservation of the literal text of the Quran or preservation of its meaning.
Re: Console
Posted: Sat May 03, 2003 10:42 pm
by Danish
Salaams Quresh,
The Quran is basically the same in all sects, it is the ignorance of the leaders and their people to set it aside and thereby producing other book/s to support the Quran by distortions, fabrications, mismatch and conjecture. In the Bohra mythodology, the teachings of Diamul Islam and certain hadiths are given more preference over Quran and thus they give the Quran a lip-service. Check it out at Jamiat-us-Saifia, Barkate Haidery, Karachi, Pakistan and in Surat, India. The same is true with the Sunnis, Shias, Agha Khanis, etc. as they have their own hadithic supports that they adhere to. Remember, GOD is no need of any support whatsoever. Quran is GOD's Words and doesn't require any support. By supporting GOD's words, one is underestimating HIM and HIS authority and challenging HIS incompleteness and incapability. Be HE Glorified.
If you want to verify anything to do with Rashad, then check out this site:
www.submission.org. Be sure to study it thoroughly, specially his translation and his appendices. Its a fact that anyone who is against anyone, gives a wrong impression of the other, so better understand it yourself. If you have any quesions, ask them, just like I did.
If the two verse of chapter nine are false it means that the challenge to meet i.e To create a single Surah of the like thereof is met and Allah Taala has been proclaimed wrong.
Rashad didn't create anything, he removed the false injunctions as it was disturbing to many during revamping of the Quran in the days of Imaam Ali and has perturbed many others since then. Thus the challenge to create another verse doesn't arise.
does that not go against the promise of god to preserve the Quran Sharif[15:9] Absolutely, we have revealed the reminder, and, absolutely, we will preserve it.
No it doesn't because that's how GOD preserved it via Rashad by taking out the false verses and preserving the Quran back to its pristine condition.
As muslims still consider this verse a part of the quran and dont differentiate.
Incorrect and illogical. The Muslims differentiate themselves tremendously anyways, with or without the 2 verses and that's why they have sects, subsects and microsects as well. All because of hadiths (Satanic innovations). Surprisingly enough, it is the Muslims who are being tortured and bombared all over the world for their disbelief, by GOD's Will.
It is worth noting that Rashad Khalifa produced two translations, the first of which does not omit the two verses.
It is worth noting that even the Quran has TWO versions itself. The HAFS and the TUSHKENT. One in Egypt and the other in Istanbul. Besides, Rashad produced only translations, not revelations, just like many other scholars with revised editions.
PEACE.
Re: Console
Posted: Sun May 04, 2003 12:29 am
by Muslim
In the Bohra mythodology, the teachings of Diamul Islam and certain hadiths are given more preference over Quran and thus they give the Quran a lip-service.
Daimul Islam itself gives preference to the Quran and quotes extensively from it.
The same is true with the Sunnis, Shias, Agha Khanis, etc. as they have their own hadithic supports that they adhere to.
Khalifites simply replace these hadiths with Rashad's interpretation of Quran - Rashad's hadiths.
If you want to verify anything to do with Rashad, then check out this site:
www.submission.org. Be sure to study it thoroughly, specially his translation and his appendices.
Appendices???? Why do you need appendices?
From Appendix 2:
<blockquote>"During my Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, and before sunrise on Tuesday, Zul-Hijjah 3, 1391, December 21, 1971, I , Rashad Khalifa, the soul, the real person, not the body, was taken to some place in the universe where I was introduced to all the prophets as God's Messenger of the Covenant...." </blockquote>
These appendices are Rashad's tales which he added to the Quran.
Appendices = Rashad's hadiths.</B> Don't be a hypocrite, read and follow what you wrote: "Remember, GOD is no need of any support whatsoever. Quran is GOD's Words and doesn't require any support. By supporting GOD's words, one is underestimating HIM and HIS authority and challenging HIS incompleteness and incapability."
Rashad didn't create anything, he removed the false injunctions as it was disturbing to many during revamping of the Quran in the days of Imaam Ali and has perturbed many others since then.
How did Rashad know what happened in the days of Imam Ali??? Through hadith.
Ironic - he uses the same hadiths which he calls "satanic innovations" to show his point.
No it doesn't because that's how GOD preserved it via Rashad by taking out the false verses and preserving the Quran back to its pristine condition.
"preserving the Quran back to its pristine condition" ??????? You can't "preserve" something back. If its preserved, its in a state that requires no changes.
Besides, Rashad produced only translations, not revelations, just like many other scholars with revised editions.
The significance of the two translations is this: Rashad claimed to be a messenger of God. A messenger of God, who produces one translation that includes the 2 verses and later another that excludes them. In other words, a messenger of God who cannot tell the difference between what is revelation from God and what is not.