Dawoodi Bohra Forum

This video may give you cause to reflect on the contributions of the Aga Khan community vs the Bohras. Unfortunately, some of my Bohra friends have a 'holier than thou' attitude as they compare bohra religious practices to Ismaili ones. I sincerely believe that our community is now a cult disguised as a outwardly Islam practicing group. The truest expression of religion is service to fellow humans...


http://aku.edu/ video/Difference _we_make_ 1.html

a legitimate Shia Imami Nizari Ismaili tariqua of Islam with an IMAM living and present to guide the momins , , directly decendent from the Holy Prophet thru Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fateemah tu Zahra , ahl-e-bayt, from the holy panj-tan-pak , infallible spiritually : and materially a guide of over 25 million Ismailis in over 30 countries.[ source AKDN.com , AKF canada . com ]
compare that to a cult like group with no Imam , hazar and maujood , a Dai that operates with force , illegally , and is not respected and IS openly defied and challenged by followers.

Whats the truth with this bohra cult ?

zak wrote:a legitimate Shia Imami Nizari Ismaili tariqua of Islam with an IMAM living and present to guide the momins , , directly decendent from the Holy Prophet thru Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fateemah tu Zahra , ahl-e-bayt, from the holy panj-tan-pak , infallible spiritually : and materially a guide of over 25 million Ismailis in over 30 countries.[ source AKDN.com , AKF canada . com ]
compare that to a cult like group with no Imam , hazar and maujood , a Dai that operates with force , illegally , and is not respected and IS openly defied and challenged by followers.

Whats the truth with this bohra cult ?

Wrong

hes far from a sayed in fact the alamut imams were grandsons of hasan-i sabbah

hadi ibn nizar died with his father al-nizar after rebbeling against ahmad ibn mustansir billah(s.w.s)

they even admitted this and amde a story that hadi musteve committed zina witht he dais wife to continue the lineage


his folowers are worst off then the Dawoodi branch of bohras his''Noorani''princess Daughter is allwoed to attend discotheques and marry a kafir ,


Hasan-i sabbah kileld his own son for Drinking Alcohol

whereas the agha khan serves alcohol in his 5 star hotels!lo00ol!
www.Mostmercifull.net

zak wrote:a legitimate Shia Imami Nizari Ismaili tariqua of Islam with an IMAM living and present to guide the momins , , directly decendent from the Holy Prophet thru Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fateemah tu Zahra , ahl-e-bayt, from the holy panj-tan-pak , infallible spiritually : and materially a guide of over 25 million Ismailis in over 30 countries.[ source AKDN.com , AKF canada . com ]
compare that to a cult like group with no Imam , hazar and maujood , a Dai that operates with force , illegally , and is not respected and IS openly defied and challenged by followers.

Whats the truth with this bohra cult ?

let em ask u somthing?


the imamate in shiasm has always been Father to son to the exception of Hasan to hussein this became the rule

but the agha khans father was no imam ,his Grandfather was the ''imam''ánd agha khan was appointed by his grandfather


this is in contradiction with the Principle of Nass

in fact agha khans father was a major playboy and according to western magazines admitted to Affairs with peoples wives

when shias beelive the imam has a pure and masoum lineage back to Adam


www.mostmercifull.net

zak wrote:a legitimate Shia Imami Nizari Ismaili tariqua of Islam with an IMAM living and present to guide the momins , , directly decendent from the Holy Prophet thru Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fateemah tu Zahra , ahl-e-bayt, from the holy panj-tan-pak , infallible spiritually : and materially a guide of over 25 million Ismailis in over 30 countries.[ source AKDN.com , AKF canada . com ]
compare that to a cult like group with no Imam , hazar and maujood , a Dai that operates with force , illegally , and is not respected and IS openly defied and challenged by followers.

Whats the truth with this bohra cult ?

i can also say i have a sayed descendancy to mawla ali(a.s) but unless its Authenticated by the Experts of shajarah in Baghdad it remains conjecture

just like the other millions of Iranian and pakistani ''''sayeds'' who faked lineage in order to get khums money when the qajari dynasty was Handing out khums money like crazy'

the Sulaimani's Look at them they are the most progressive of all ismaili groups and they are bohra

reseach a bit on them\

anyway im off to lunch

not with bush,Reagan and other free mason war criminals like the Agha khan does

questions wrote:This video may give you cause to reflect on the contributions of the Aga Khan community vs the Bohras. Unfortunately, some of my Bohra friends have a 'holier than thou' attitude as they compare bohra religious practices to Ismaili ones. I sincerely believe that our community is now a cult disguised as a outwardly Islam practicing group. The truest expression of religion is service to fellow humans...


http://aku.edu/ video/Difference _we_make_ 1.html

I guess You never knew Bohras are building hospitals,Schools,and charity networks probably more then the agha khan if not on Par with him...how much charity work in front of the Camera and other funny Quick Shot poses Are not a proof of anybodies Divinity,imamate or Morality.since i am assuming you are a Agha khan Follower can you Explain how Hasan-i Sabbah KilledHis Son for drinking alcoholic beverage,yet this Man freely serves it to his guests?
Yet Agha Khan has no ghira towards his own daughter?the prophet ,Peace and Benedictions upon him,Was Walking and one companion saw a woman with non-mahram man.He said'''' if that was my Wife i would have Cut his Head off''The prophet said ibn abbas(i beleive was the companion)is protective of his Womenfolk,I am the Messenger of god,and i am Much more Protective of my Womenfolk''the prophet also exclaimed that the '''Dayyouth'''''would be in Hell,they asked him what is the ''Dayyouth'''?he told them a man who doesnt care if his womenfolk Walk with no hijab and shamelessly!!!!!!
Question : Since you Beleive the Agha khan kareem Al-Husayni is the Re-incarnation of ali ibn Abu Talib(pbuh),Brother and successer to God's Prophet,How can Agha khan not have even simple Ghira?

Al-Uqul wrote:

questions wrote:This video may give you cause to reflect on the contributions of the Aga Khan community vs the Bohras. Unfortunately, some of my Bohra friends have a 'holier than thou' attitude as they compare bohra religious practices to Ismaili ones. I sincerely believe that our community is now a cult disguised as a outwardly Islam practicing group. The truest expression of religion is service to fellow humans...


http://aku.edu/ video/Difference _we_make_ 1.html

I guess You never knew Bohras are building hospitals,Schools,and charity networks probably more then the agha khan if not on Par with him...how much charity work in front of the Camera and other funny Quick Shot poses Are not a proof of anybodies Divinity,imamate or Morality.since i am assuming you are a Agha khan Follower can you Explain how Hasan-i Sabbah KilledHis Son for drinking alcoholic beverage,yet this Man freely serves it to his guests?
Yet Agha Khan has no ghira towards his own daughter?the prophet ,Peace and Benedictions upon him,Was Walking and one companion saw a woman with non-mahram man.He said'''' if that was my Wife i would have Cut his Head off''The prophet said ibn abbas(i beleive was the companion)is protective of his Womenfolk,I am the Messenger of god,and i am Much more Protective of my Womenfolk''the prophet also exclaimed that the '''Dayyouth'''''would be in Hell,they asked him what is the ''Dayyouth'''?he told them a man who doesnt care if his womenfolk Walk with no hijab and shamelessly!!!!!!
Question : Since you Beleive the Agha khan kareem Al-Husayni is the Re-incarnation of ali ibn Abu Talib(pbuh),Brother and successer to God's Prophet,How can Agha khan not have even simple Ghira?

I am not an Ismaili but a Dawoodi bohra with questions. I leave morality, ghairat, namaz. hijab,drinking, etc to Allh to judge. owever I can safely challenge you to bring a list of Dawoodi Bohra and ismaili schools not madrassas, hospitals and world class universities. My criterion of expression of religiousness is service to mankind, and in that alone the kothar fails miserably, let alone comparison with the Aga Khan.

my point is the agha khan.with all Respect to him,despite my disagreements, has a tendency of showing up in front of the Camera when the time is right.yes,he built some schools,but theyre aimed at gaining muslims away from islam over to his ''i am the math-har(mirror)of god''Personality cult.the free masons and many christian aswell as Saudi funded salafi groups and dawa missions do more then the agha khan's apparent orginization.a history of the assassins will show their true face.and i can build a school for the purpose of indoctrinating children but when i support the killing of muslim children by my best freind bush and reagan then i should re-evaluate my true intention.

especialy what Strikes us is his apparent support for Western culture asking muslims to adopt it,whereas he is against islamic culutre and values and morals and considers it barbaric,as if allah has sent down no shariah to his prophet and the Fatimid dynasty didnt See themselves as Protecters of shariah.as if Imam al-hakem bi amrallah didnt implement shariah to one extent that he was the one most seriouis in it,forbidding wine,stoning the adulterer(l.a) and adulteress(l.a),appointing a sunni as cheif Qadhi because of his sence of Adalat(justice),preventing ghiyar-muslimeen having muslim slave girls and the like according to sunni historians!


p.s i am not for the dawoodi bohra eshtablishment of Muhammad burhanudeen nor the ''progressives''of Asghar ali engineer ,theyre both enemies of islam and tashayo in my opinion,even though i defend the isma'iliyah from the salafi's on this Board, but be objective and realistic

may allah (S.W.T)and his Prophet(saas) and Wazirah Ali(a.s)guide us to the right path

Walaykoum al-salam

Dear Bro Al Uqal,

Maybe i hve failed to understnad the underlying meaning but who guides us to the right path?

Is it Allah(swt) or Prophet(saw) or hazrat Ali (ra)?. I thought it is only and only Allah (Swt) who guides people. He sent his prophet (saw) to only show us the right path through preaching and practicing so when you say Allah(swt), RasulAllah(saw) and Hazrat Ali(ra) guide us to the right path, im not able to understnad this. Maybe i am missing something?

Also whose responsiblilty is it to preach the commandments of Allah (saw). Who was given the task to spread Allah(swt)'s word?

TBG wrote:Dear Bro Al Uqal,

Maybe i hve failed to understnad the underlying meaning but who guides us to the right path?

Is it Allah(swt) or Prophet(saw) or hazrat Ali (ra)?. I thought it is only and only Allah (Swt) who guides people. He sent his prophet (saw) to only show us the right path through preaching and practicing so when you say Allah(swt), RasulAllah(saw) and Hazrat Ali(ra) guide us to the right path, im not able to understnad this. Maybe i am missing something?

Also whose responsiblilty is it to preach the commandments of Allah (saw). Who was given the task to spread Allah(swt)'s word?

allah Thru prophets and imams so who after the prophet?doesnt koran say''you are but a warner and to every people there is a guide?

this detailed imamate doctrine of nass and Election by allah is discussed http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ ... /index.php and http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ ... _guide.pdf
with compeling proofs and arguments from the sunni brothers themselves.
Wasalam

say''you are but a warner and to every people there is a guide?"

can also be interpreted that there is a warner for every nation and to every nation there is a guide (this guide refering to RasulAllah (saw)) and not anyone else.

my point is simple, if we had to follow the immate then why are we asked to follow and read the Quran and the Sunnah. Do we have doubts the way the Sunnah has been cascaded down through centuries that we need to be told by someone else. Whether its the sunnis, shias, bohris, baring a few difference, basics are the same for most religious activities. Quran says that it was sent down in the arabic language to make it easier. It repetedly asks us to ponder the wonders of nature. The life of RasulAllah (saw) is in front of us through his actions and teachings and one many scholars confirm the same thing.

In the PDF it talks about protecting the deen. The deen is here due to Quran and how RasulAllah(saw) preached it. Allah (swt) has promised to protect the Quran so i dont think that needs any protection. Sunnah of RasulAllah (Saw) as confirmed by all scholars has come through without change. So what protection we need i dont get.

Another question to you is what is it that the imams and Hazrat Ali teaches that RasulAllah (saw) has not? Also if the imams are here to teach and preserve the religion and protect it .. where is he?




I dont need compeling proofs from the sunni brothers to believe a story. I want to understand

say''you are but a warner and to every people there is a guide?"

can also be interpreted that there is a warner for every nation and to every nation there is a guide (this guide refering to RasulAllah (saw)) and not anyone else.

but if you read the shia enyclopedia and this treatise they show the guide mentioend was Ali the son of Abu Talib(pbuh)from sunni scholars tafasir.who is the hadi today?rasoolallah(sws) has Passed away?you expect allah not to leave a guide for his beloved servants?he loves us more then a mother loves her child.,when even the body has the heart at its center and guide,without it the other functions of other organs would be vain.imam sadiqs sahibi hisham ibn hakam has made this analogy very well.rasoolalalh said whoever boarded the ahl al bayt is saved and whoever doesnt is perished like noahs Ak.

allah leaves even animals with a leader,the ants,wolves,mammal,termites,yet the human being he would leave just there?

my point is simple, if we had to follow the immate then why are we asked to follow and read the Quran and the Sunnah. Do we have doubts the way the Sunnah has been cascaded down through centuries that we need to be told by someone else. Whether its the sunnis, shias, bohris, baring a few difference, basics are the same for most religious activities. Quran says that it was sent down in the arabic language to make it easier. It repetedly asks us to ponder the wonders of nature. The life of RasulAllah (saw) is in front of us through his actions and teachings and one many scholars confirm the same thing.
this is deen al-Zahari ,not essence of din imam teaches us.and even deen al-zahari wich is not the same one bit,even between al Mathahib al Arba'ah(four sunni sects)
In the PDF it talks about protecting the deen. The deen is here due to Quran and how RasulAllah(saw) preached it. Allah (swt) has promised to protect the Quran so i dont think that needs any protection. Sunnah of RasulAllah (Saw) as confirmed by all scholars has come through without change. So what protection we need i dont get.

firstly no,allah has said to protect his thikr(reminder),this is interpreted as quran by many people,but also his Messenger who was a reminder by others.but what about the fact ahl al bayt are the sole interpreters of quran since theyre the oens allah said-;;only the pruified can reach it'''.yani thye have the explanation of quran.in fact the quran says it contains everything mentioend in this book''íf we took this the Zaheri way we would become quran only followers,but indeed ali testified all is in quran but they ahl al bayt have access to this esoteric guidance.
so many interpretatins of quran and islam and sunnah(distorted on large scale by banu umamyah,banu abbas,abu hurayrah ,aisha and umar)
leading to numerouis fira'aq(sects)wich is haram in islam.if only we held to the rope of allah wich is ahl al bayt we wouldnt have this issue.

quran 65:10] Allah has prepared for them severe chastisement, therefore be careful of
(your duty to) Allah, O men of understanding who believe! Allah has indeed revealed to
you ''''a reminder'''',
quran 65:11] ''A Messenger'' who recites to you the clear communications of Allah
so that he may bring forth those who believe and do good deeds from darkness into
light; and whoever believes in Allah and does good deeds, He will cause him to enter
gardens beneath which rivers now, to abide therein forever, Allah has indeed given
him a goodly sustenance.


Another question to you is what is it that the imams and Hazrat Ali teaches that RasulAllah (saw) has not? Also if the imams are here to teach and preserve the religion and protect it .. where is he?

the Dai is his representative,imam is in seclusion,the dai should guide the momins today in such matters,for 12er shias it iz the ahadith and for the usuli school the maraja taqlid.

The guide left behind are the Quran and life of RasulAllah (Saw). Can there be a bigger guide than this ???? Brother im really trying to understand why do i need anything else if i have these two. Also if these guides were not enough than why read the quran at all .. you said that ahl al bayt are the sole interpreters of the quran. I do not find this comment comprehensible. If that is the case then really we should just leave the quran becaue it is out of our reach .. why then are we commanded to read it and understand it .. why has RasulAllah (saw) said i leave behind two things .. it shoud be one thing if the real knowledge is only with ahl bayt. So basically no matter how great a person is by word and action he cannot understand the deeper meanings !!!
I have no doubt that the knowledge of everything is in the quran. I dont need any one to tell me that. I read it and i try to understand it bit by bit and it confirms each time that all is included in this.

Did RasulAllah (saw) mentioned ever that the knowledge of the Quran is only with Ahl al baut??

We all know what the dai is doing ... that alone shoudl suffice that if the dai is what he is .. that alone puts the entire credibility of the immate in question? if such is a representation of imam need i say more ? More importantly if it is what it is then what is the imam waiting for ? can he not see the suffering and pain in the world???

And if they, having wronged themselves, had come to you and sought God’s forgiveness and the Messenger had also sought God’s forgiveness for them, they would have certainly found God Forgiving and Merciful. (4:65)

True believers are those whose hearts are filled with awe at the mention of God, and when His revelations are recited before them their faith grows stronger and they are those who put their trust in their Lord alone, are diligent in their prayers and spend [in Our cause] what We have given them. Such are the true believers. For them are ranks before God and forgiveness and a very respectable sustenance. (8:2-4)

True believers are those who have faith in God and His messenger and then were never entangled in any doubt and fought with their wealth and with their persons in the cause of God. It is these who are true [in their faith]. (49:15)

Allah (swt) sent his word directly to the prophet(saw) and only he experienced the miracle of Mairaj and saw what no man has seen before and ever will. only he in my view was delegated the responsibility of teaching the religion.

[''The guide left behind are the Quran and life of RasulAllah (Saw). Can there be a bigger guide than this ???? Brother im really trying to understand why do i need anything else if i have these two. Also if these guides were not enough than why read the quran at all .. you said that ahl al bayt are the sole interpreters of the quran. I do not find this comment comprehensible. If that is the case then really we should just leave the quran becaue it is out of our reach .. why then are we commanded to read it and understand it .. why has RasulAllah (saw) said i leave behind two things .. it shoud be one thing if the real knowledge is only with ahl bayt. So basically no matter how great a person is by word and action he cannot understand the deeper meanings !!!
I have no doubt that the knowledge of everything is in the quran. I dont need any one to tell me that. I read it and i try to understand it bit by bit and it confirms each time that all is included in this.

firslty the qurna is here,the sunnah well even the ''sunnis''ádmit falacies in it,the corredct sunnah with contradictions.
surely the sunna should be given to us by means of his own family who were with him 24/7
and retain the tradition of their ancestor(saas)
but bukhari considered imam jafar al-sadiq to be a liar.......'

the two things are quran and ahl al bayt ,there is one hadith of abu hurayra the liar about koran and sunnah

but it is in mustadarak hakim nayshapouri and graded ''Weak''whereas thaqalayn of muhamad wa aalih is strongh with numeriouis sana''id(chains)of thuqaat(reliable narraters)

Did RasulAllah (saw) mentioned ever that the knowledge of the Quran is only with Ahl al baut??
Yes,he did,he ordered us to take the quranic guidance from them aswell

We all know what the dai is doing ... that alone shoudl suffice that if the dai is what he is .. that alone puts the entire credibility of the immate in question? if such is a representation of imam need i say more ? More importantly if it is what it is then what is the imam waiting for ? can he not see the suffering and pain in the world???


it depnds the 12ers take the hadith of ahl ul bayt to interpret the quran they forbid tafsir bil rayy(according to own opinion wich ur advocating)

personally i beelive in the Sulaymani Dai not the dawudi one,the dais of dawoodi are exceptions
And if they, having wronged themselves, had come to you and sought God’s forgiveness and the Messenger had also sought God’s forgiveness for them, they would have certainly found God Forgiving and Merciful. (4:65)

True believers are those whose hearts are filled with awe at the mention of God, and when His revelations are recited before them their faith grows stronger and they are those who put their trust in their Lord alone, are diligent in their prayers and spend [in Our cause] what We have given them. Such are the true believers. For them are ranks before God and forgiveness and a very respectable sustenance. (8:2-4)

True believers are those who have faith in God and His messenger and then were never entangled in any doubt and fought with their wealth and with their persons in the cause of God. It is these who are true [in their faith]. (49:15)

Allah (swt) sent his word directly to the prophet(saw) and only he experienced the miracle of Mairaj and saw what no man has seen before and ever will. only he in my view was delegated the responsibility of teaching the religion.[/quote]

you may ahve this opinion i respect it,in my view but then islam is nothing for the intelligent people in that case,because his sunnah is mainly lost in sunnism,with sunnis in turkey even advocating reforming the hadiths.many sunni hadiths contradict the koran aswell.but shias judge hadith in light of koran not other way around.per order of al-sadiq

concerning al-miraj please share and watch my recent vid on miraj akhi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmlernpHBUU

Sanafrughu lakum ayyuha aththaqalan!We shall attend to you, O you two Heavy Weights({الثَّقَلَينِ}!(Quran 55:31 surah rahman verse 31)

The honorable Messenger of Allah (a.s) said: Iwill soon be called to my Lord and will accept it.I leave two invaluable entities( الثَّقَلَينِ ) among you; theDivine Book of the Almighty Allah, stretchingfrom heaven to the earth like a rope; and myfamily, my Household. The Almighty informedme that these two would never be separatedfrom each other until they meet me on the Riverin Paradise (Kawthar). So be aware of what youwill do with them after me!

Brother,

The youtube video is very difficult to read because of the combo of text and background but whatever i was abel to read i was not able to understand the point .. the connection between what has been mention in the zoras text and the actual event so i apologies for that.

On Quran, Sunnah and Hadith please consider this .. http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issu ... px?id=1232

my question earlier was again who from the family is showing us the way to the sunnah ..

bukhari called imam jaffer a liar .. but imam jaffar sadiq was also the teacher of Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik so im sure that poeple realize the status of imam jaffar

whether abu hurairah was a liar is debatable ... while people claim him to be a liar there is an equal emphasis on the fact that he spent a lot of time with prophet(saw) in the years after he converted and had an immaculate memory ..
so its this or that .. whose correct God only knows ? question really is that the hadiths that he has narrated when you read it do they contradict the quran and sunnah ??????

where did rasulAllah (saw) say or order to take guidance only from ahl al bayt???

i have seriously doubts about people who claim that interpretation of quran is only limited to a few people. Allah would not mention that the quran is for all humans and for all time if that was the case. He sent it as a guidance it is Furqan so its for everyone's to read and understand.

brother, the sunnah is not for sunnis and shias ... i have lived with both sunnis and shias and its not like they are both totally doing the opposite ... baring some details in each activity most of it how i percieve is the same .. why are we always hell bent on looking at differences .. why are we not looking athe commonalities .. more importnatly Allah orders in teh quran to DO NOT Divide amongst yourself .... the hadith has to be studied in the light of quran and those who dont are i think not following the right way .. but just because a few are doing does that make everyone wrong ???? i can say the same for all muslim sect .. not everyone is 100% right or 100% wrong ..

at the end of the day i feel the teachings of rasulAllah(Saw) are clear and Quran is clear on what our role is as muslims ... that will be the judge ... by being a particular sect does not save me from hell fire .. i know many people who have the most stubborn beliefs when they have not even bothered to read the translation the quran .. and they act like custodians of religion ..

not sure if i understand your comment on islam is nothing for intellgivent people ... i thought islam is for everyone !!

TBG, concerning abu huiarah al-Douzi http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter9/3.html he was a jew who insulted ali,and ali because of him Destroying jews power in arabia,the jews of arabia ahd a Resentment against ali.Umar ibn al khattab and uthman are good examples of Ex-jews in this case.scientifvcally speaking his narrations are his imagination.well his narrated that moses slapped the angel of Death,Talking Cows,Monkeys stoning an Adulteress Monkey,moses naked in abath and his slippers chasing a Rock.many companions accussed him of lying on rasoolallah including aisha,ali and ibn umar,umar ibn al-khattab aswell threatned to kill him,he was made a ummayad governer and hadith fabricater against ali ,yeah only allah knows his Truthfullness in the meanwhile well Rejct his Traditons you on the other hand can accpet them.no wonder people are leaving islam.

''''Brother,

The youtube video is very difficult to read because of the combo of text and background but whatever i was abel to read i was not able to understand the point .. the connection between what has been mention in the zoras text and the actual event so i apologies for that.

On Quran, Sunnah and Hadith please consider this .. http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issu ... px?id=1232
'

my question earlier was again who from the family is showing us the way to the sunnah ..

Imam tayyib ibn Tayyib and the ahadith of masoumeen thru al-dai.for 12ers its their imam mahdi

bukhari called imam jaffer a liar .. but imam jaffar sadiq was also the teacher of Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik so im sure that poeple realize the status of imam jaffar

i know mashaAllah,But them being abbassid scholar for dollars couldnt take from Abbas al-Safa's and abu Mansoor al-Dawaniqi's Enemy could he?its in answeringansar.org article all what i say.

whether abu hurairah was a liar is debatable ... while people claim him to be a liar there is an equal emphasis on the fact that he spent a lot of time with prophet(saw) in the years after he converted and had an immaculate memory ..
so its this or that .. whose correct God only knows ? question really is that the hadiths that he has narrated when you read it do they contradict the quran and sunnah ??????
super memory mashallah a New computer!!!!!!!!!

where did rasulAllah (saw) say or order to take guidance only from ahl al bayt???


in sunni hadiths to numerous to quote at the moment you can refer to sunnism in shiasm at http://www.ziaraat.net for free download and you can refer the shia enyclopedia i quoted earlier a whole chapter on traditions on ahl al bats hidaya ba3d rasolallah
i have seriously doubts about people who claim that interpretation of quran is only limited to a few people. Allah would not mention that the quran is for all humans and for all time if that was the case. He sent it as a guidance it is Furqan so its for everyone's to read and understand.

brother, the sunnah is not for sunnis and shias ... i have lived with both sunnis and shias and its not like they are both totally doing the opposite ... baring some details in each activity most of it how i percieve is the same .. why are we always hell bent on looking at differences .. why are we not looking athe commonalities .. more importnatly Allah orders in teh quran to DO NOT Divide amongst yourself .... the hadith has to be studied in the light of quran and those who dont are i think not following the right way .. but just because a few are doing does that make everyone wrong ???? i can say the same for all muslim sect .. not everyone is 100% right or 100% wrong ..


yes there is one true sect refer to the hadith of 72 sects one would enter paradise,We never made any Firaq(sects)but you guys did when you refused ahl al abyt(a.s),yes shia follow al-sunnah,but you are from asunni standpoint criticizing our sunnah wich comes from hidayat-e-imamat your sunnay we argue is distorted thru time and governmental reasons.
when u agrree on your mathahib al arbaah wich one si Truth come to us and lecture us on sects,but until then to you your opiinion to us muhamamds Family Ahl al Bayt(a.s)
at the end of the day i feel the teachings of rasulAllah(Saw) are clear and Quran is clear on what our role is as muslims ... that will be the judge ... by being a particular sect does not save me from hell fire .. i know many people who have the most stubborn beliefs when they have not even bothered to read the translation the quran .. and they act like custodians of religion ..

not sure if i understand your comment on islam is nothing for intellgivent people ... i thought islam is for everyone !![/quote]
if wre take islam without guidance at all times,a hadi,a mahdi,a Qa3im then its a dead religion like judaism and christianity strandled in their corrupted Books of old.differing amongst themselves and still cannot come to a conclusion.

''''Brother,

The youtube video is very difficult to read because of the combo of text and background but whatever i was abel to read i was not able to understand the point .. the connection between what has been mention in the zoras text and the actual event so i apologies for that.

On Quran, Sunnah and Hadith please consider this .. http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issu ... px?id=1232
'

my question earlier was again who from the family is showing us the way to the sunnah ..

Imam tayyib ibn Tayyib and the ahadith of masoumeen thru al-dai.for 12ers its their imam mahdi

bukhari called imam jaffer a liar .. but imam jaffar sadiq was also the teacher of Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik so im sure that poeple realize the status of imam jaffar

i know mashaAllah,But them being abbassid scholar for dollars couldnt take from Abbas al-Safa's and abu Mansoor al-Dawaniqi's Enemy could he?its in answeringansar.org article all what i say.

whether abu hurairah was a liar is debatable ... while people claim him to be a liar there is an equal emphasis on the fact that he spent a lot of time with prophet(saw) in the years after he converted and had an immaculate memory ..
so its this or that .. whose correct God only knows ? question really is that the hadiths that he has narrated when you read it do they contradict the quran and sunnah ??????
super memory mashallah a New computer!!!!!!!!!

where did rasulAllah (saw) say or order to take guidance only from ahl al bayt???


in sunni hadiths to numerous to quote at the moment you can refer to sunnism in shiasm at http://www.ziaraat.net for free download and you can refer the shia enyclopedia i quoted earlier a whole chapter on traditions on ahl al bats hidaya ba3d rasolallah
i have seriously doubts about people who claim that interpretation of quran is only limited to a few people. Allah would not mention that the quran is for all humans and for all time if that was the case. He sent it as a guidance it is Furqan so its for everyone's to read and understand.

brother, the sunnah is not for sunnis and shias ... i have lived with both sunnis and shias and its not like they are both totally doing the opposite ... baring some details in each activity most of it how i percieve is the same .. why are we always hell bent on looking at differences .. why are we not looking athe commonalities .. more importnatly Allah orders in teh quran to DO NOT Divide amongst yourself .... the hadith has to be studied in the light of quran and those who dont are i think not following the right way .. but just because a few are doing does that make everyone wrong ???? i can say the same for all muslim sect .. not everyone is 100% right or 100% wrong ..


yes there is one true sect refer to the hadith of 72 sects one would enter paradise,We never made any Firaq(sects)but you guys did when you refused ahl al abyt(a.s),yes shia follow al-sunnah,but you are from asunni standpoint criticizing our sunnah wich comes from hidayat-e-imamat your sunnay we argue is distorted thru time and governmental reasons.
when u agrree on your mathahib al arbaah wich one si Truth come to us and lecture us on sects,but until then to you your opiinion to us muhamamds Family Ahl al Bayt(a.s)
at the end of the day i feel the teachings of rasulAllah(Saw) are clear and Quran is clear on what our role is as muslims ... that will be the judge ... by being a particular sect does not save me from hell fire .. i know many people who have the most stubborn beliefs when they have not even bothered to read the translation the quran .. and they act like custodians of religion ..

not sure if i understand your comment on islam is nothing for intellgivent people ... i thought islam is for everyone !![/quote]
if wre take islam without guidance at all times,a hadi,a mahdi,a Qa3im then its a dead religion like judaism and christianity strandled in their corrupted Books of old.differing amongst themselves and still cannot come to a conclusion.

why agha khanis have not contributed or built any zarih in karbala or najaf,on other hand bhra got this opportunity to built this holy zarih many a times.

incredible wrote:why agha khanis have not contributed or built any zarih in karbala or najaf,on other hand bhra got this opportunity to built this holy zarih many a times.

because they have the incarnation(per their beelifs)of ali,Hasan and Hussain in front of them.why build a zarih when u can build a indoctrination Temple Dedicated to the Worshipping and chants to Israels best buddy?

Dear Al-Uqul,

Would like a point out a few things.

Mostmerciful dot com is run by an ex-Muslim who followed the Nizari Ismaili Shia persuasion of Islam. He is funded by the Saudi Sunni Sunnah Wahabbis, who are AGAINST ALL ---> SHIAS...including YOU, since you claim to be a Mustaali Sulaymani Ismaili Shia.

So before you make a comment about the Aga Khan and his followers next time, you may want to reflect before you type. Many of your community members, Mustaali Dawoodi-Bohras, Ithnnasharis, and others alike take advantage and get treatment from the Aga Khan Hospitals, Clinics, etc., you send your children to Aga Khan Schools, Universities, etc, obtain personal and business loans from Nizari Ismaili Muslim banks and institutions, get funds from him and the community to build your Masjids and Madressas. How about the embarrasing situation of His Holiness Dai Sayedna Burhanuddin who was arrested in Tanzania at some point in the last 20 to 30 years for apparent money extortion from his followers and laundering charges...who helped him out at that time of crisis??? His followers could not do anything, the apparent hidden Imam you guys revere did not do anything...your Imam did not appear out of blue/from the sky & clouds, and or cave. It was not me, not you, or the Mostmerciful dot com fellow, nor the Wahabbi Saudis, who helped out. Answer -> It was the ever present, ever living, (Hazar Imam), that Allah (swt) promised mankind till the Day of Judgement, who helped His Holiness out of his situation. On the other hand, however, you and your community members mock the Aga Khan IV, who is from lineage of Ahlul Bayt, from Ali thru Bibi Fatema onwards. Do you/we see something wrong with the bigger picture here?

Have you paused and considered how beautiful the Masjid al-Haram and the Kaba is? Do you know where the money for the up keep, maintenance, expansion comes from? The custodians of the Holy Masjid, the Wahabbi Saudi Royal family, gets their revenue from petro dollars. Who needs these petroleum products? USA, Israel, India, European countries, etc...most of whom you Shariah bent consider and label them as kafirs...are not these the friends of the Saudis? So next time you go for Hajj, Umrah and visting and worshiping at the Holy Masjid, and Kaba...when your head touches the Holy floor while performing sajda prostration during namaz/salat, leaving aside the historical context of establishment, keep in mind who is funding the environment of your place of Holy pilgrimage and submission

Take care brother!

Mostmerciful dot com is run by an ex-Muslim who followed the Nizari Ismaili Shia persuasion of Islam. He is funded by the Saudi Sunni Sunnah Wahabbis, who are AGAINST ALL ---> SHIAS...including YOU,

Mostmerciful dot com is run by an ex-Muslim

Just bacause he ceased to be Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja he became ex Muslim? I thought beside shahada Salaat/Namaaz is must to be Muslim, then Roza and Hajj. Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja do not perform Salaat/Namaaz, do not fast in Ramadan and do not go to Hajj. What do you call them?

He is funded by the Saudi Sunni Sunnah Wahabbis

I am sure you have proof.

Yes he became an ex Muslim, and converted into Sunni (Sunnah) (Mohammedan) Khoja for not following the path (of Imamate) that was promised to mankind to follow by Allah (swt), in his conversation with and promise to Prophet Ibrahim (ASA)/Abraham (PBUH), as narrated in the Holy Qu'ran.

Please do not generalize a group of people/a community (Khoja Ismailis) because of the actions of a few. Can you quote the namaz/salat prayers from the Holy Qu'ran? Referencing to authentic Muslim Shia Imami Nizari Ismaili sources, is there any instruction for the believers (momins/mumins/momineens) & followers not to keep fast (roza) + not to go for the Holy pilgrimage (Hajj)?

Is it fair to say that Sunnis are terrorists, let's say because of the actions of the 9/11 hijackers, Taliban, Al-Qaeda? These guys look like you folks, they smell like you folks, they attend the same majids as you folks, they pray namaz/salah like you folks, they keep roza, they go for Hajj, the list can go on & on, and they even claim to be you like you folks, Sunnis or alike, those who follow the Sunnah and Shariah. The same butchers who have killed many innocent people lives in the past, including many many Muslim Nizari Ismaili Shias. You guys are all the same right? You guys do practice and worship the same stuff. I have mentioned this to you in the past on this very Forum -> that in the annals of history, the Muslims (Shia Nizari Ismailis) has never resorted to any kind of violence in overcoming differences (esp. theological), except in the Alamut period, when the lives of Holy Imams were in danger.

From day one after the Holy Prophet's passing, there have been quarrels in regards to successorship/leadership. As a whole, Muslims of the Shia persuasion were always persecuted, and still are in present modern day.

I have challenged you in the past, and I challenge you again. Put your foot were you mouth is, and fix your own community first before barking at others. Wish you lots of luck!

You have proofs right!

Re: Ismailis and Bohras
by Muslim First on Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:38 pm

Just bacause he ceased to be Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja he became ex Muslim? I thought beside shahada Salaat/Namaaz is must to be Muslim, then Roza and Hajj. Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja do not perform Salaat/Namaaz, do not fast in Ramadan and do not go to Hajj. What do you call them?

Momin wrote:Dear Al-Uqul,

Would like a point out a few things.

Mostmerciful dot com is run by an ex-Muslim who followed the Nizari Ismaili Shia persuasion of Islam. He is funded by the Saudi Sunni Sunnah Wahabbis, who are AGAINST ALL ---> SHIAS...including YOU, since you claim to be a Mustaali Sulaymani Ismaili Shia.

So before you make a comment about the Aga Khan and his followers next time, you may want to reflect before you type. Many of your community members, Mustaali Dawoodi-Bohras, Ithnnasharis, and others alike take advantage and get treatment from the Aga Khan Hospitals, Clinics, etc., you send your children to Aga Khan Schools, Universities, etc, obtain personal and business loans from Nizari Ismaili Muslim banks and institutions, get funds from him and the community to build your Masjids and Madressas. How about the embarrasing situation of His Holiness Dai Sayedna Burhanuddin who was arrested in Tanzania at some point in the last 20 to 30 years for apparent money extortion from his followers and laundering charges...who helped him out at that time of crisis??? His followers could not do anything, the apparent hidden Imam you guys revere did not do anything...your Imam did not appear out of blue/from the sky & clouds, and or cave. It was not me, not you, or the Mostmerciful dot com fellow, nor the Wahabbi Saudis, who helped out. Answer -> It was the ever present, ever living, (Hazar Imam), that Allah (swt) promised mankind till the Day of Judgement, who helped His Holiness out of his situation. On the other hand, however, you and your community members mock the Aga Khan IV, who is from lineage of Ahlul Bayt, from Ali thru Bibi Fatema onwards. Do you/we see something wrong with the bigger picture here?

Have you paused and considered how beautiful the Masjid al-Haram and the Kaba is? Do you know where the money for the up keep, maintenance, expansion comes from? The custodians of the Holy Masjid, the Wahabbi Saudi Royal family, gets their revenue from petro dollars. Who needs these petroleum products? USA, Israel, India, European countries, etc...most of whom you Shariah bent consider and label them as kafirs...are not these the friends of the Saudis? So next time you go for Hajj, Umrah and visting and worshiping at the Holy Masjid, and Kaba...when your head touches the Holy floor while performing sajda prostration during namaz/salat, leaving aside the historical context of establishment, keep in mind who is funding the environment of your place of Holy pilgrimage and submission

Take care brother!

Dear al-momin,If your Read My Post,i Respect the Agha Khan for His Contribution to Scholarly Research and Awareness.

I Watched some of His lectures and Am on His site Sometimes.

I However See it for what it is.

My Dissagreement wiht The Agha khan is not him Being Freinds with Israel.

it is Him introducing a Doctrine wich is not Originally Isma'ili.

I Defend Khojas all the time and i have Defended the Agha khan Aswell.


Druzes and Agha Khanis Uphold shari'a Just The Batini Aspect of it.

Wich is a Interpretation not Rejection of
muslim code.

concerning agha khan he is not a Descendant of The Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)


The Stories of the Nizaris concerning a alleged son for Nizar ibn Mustansir is Quit funny and there are so many its Hard too Choose wich one is Right.


Also Whyw ould the Imam help Muhamamd burhanudeen when he is a False Da'i?


it is shaykh al-Makrami who is the True Da'i

the wahabis are ostricizing him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ATVbKQ ... re=related جرائم الشيعة الاسماعيلية1/2

(The Crimes of Isma'ili shi'ah)And the Zionist Evil Powers want to Destroy our Da'is.

Whereas Your Imam and Burhanudeen gewt full support.

this shows me they are deceivers.

Easily bought and Sold.


also we benefit from western Hospitals,chinese Paper,Pizza,and Saurkraut(but we are not supporters of these Countries!)

Momin wrote:Yes he became an ex Muslim, and converted into Sunni (Sunnah) (Mohammedan) Khoja for not following the path (of Imamate) that was promised to mankind to follow by Allah (swt), in his conversation with and promise to Prophet Ibrahim (ASA)/Abraham (PBUH), as narrated in the Holy Qu'ran.

Please do not generalize a group of people/a community (Khoja Ismailis) because of the actions of a few. Can you quote the namaz/salat prayers from the Holy Qu'ran? Referencing to authentic Muslim Shia Imami Nizari Ismaili sources, is there any instruction for the believers (momins/mumins/momineens) & followers not to keep fast (roza) + not to go for the Holy pilgrimage (Hajj)?

Is it fair to say that Sunnis are terrorists, let's say because of the actions of the 9/11 hijackers, Taliban, Al-Qaeda? These guys look like you folks, they smell like you folks, they attend the same majids as you folks, they pray namaz/salah like you folks, they keep roza, they go for Hajj, the list can go on & on, and they even claim to be you like you folks, Sunnis or alike, those who follow the Sunnah and Shariah. The same butchers who have killed many innocent people lives in the past, including many many Muslim Nizari Ismaili Shias. You guys are all the same right? You guys do practice and worship the same stuff. I have mentioned this to you in the past on this very Forum -> that in the annals of history, the Muslims (Shia Nizari Ismailis) has never resorted to any kind of violence in overcoming differences (esp. theological), except in the Alamut period, when the lives of Holy Imams were in danger.

From day one after the Holy Prophet's passing, there have been quarrels in regards to successorship/leadership. As a whole, Muslims of the Shia persuasion were always persecuted, and still are in present modern day.

I have challenged you in the past, and I challenge you again. Put your foot were you mouth is, and fix your own community first before barking at others. Wish you lots of luck!

You have proofs right!

Re: Ismailis and Bohras
by Muslim First on Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:38 pm

Just bacause he ceased to be Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja he became ex Muslim? I thought beside shahada Salaat/Namaaz is must to be Muslim, then Roza and Hajj. Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja do not perform Salaat/Namaaz, do not fast in Ramadan and do not go to Hajj. What do you call them?

Tell when did Vishnu become Muhammad and Ali Become Krishna and Salman al-Farsi became Gabriel(a.s)?

when did Vishnu and Krishna become PRe-Islamic Imams?


These people are fictionary and all schoalrs Agree on this today!

also Al-Hakim Bi Amrallah(a.s)

im sure you know his Harsh Stance on Wine Drinking and his Killing of people who sold Wine,Jew,christian or muslim or Whatever,even hindu.

Yet The Agha khan Serves Alcohol.


Hasan-i Sabbah killed His son for Drinking Alcohol.

Have you Read Da'a'im Al-islam?


What does it Say about Marrying a Christian or Jewish woman?

Ali he Said:It is impermissable to marry a Harbiya in dar al-Harb.

the Da'i An-numan also mentions ahadiths on how RasoolAllah Only Allowed marriuage to Kitabi Females when there was a Shortage of Muslim Women.

An-numan also mentions hadiths were a mumina(isma'iliyah) may only marry a mumin(a isma'ili)even if there are none where she lives she must remain patient.


im Sorry but This Contradicts The Agha Khan's Dealings.

With all Respect to him.

and all respect to my Nizari Brethren.

Dear Al-Uqual,

I disagree with everything you have stated.

You have no respect for the Imam of the Nizari Ismaili Shia Muslims as you claim to have on the one hand, and on the other you mock him and his followers. I think there are numerous verses dealing with hypocrites like you and others alike in the Holy Qu'ran.

Doctrine

The doctrine that the Aga Khan IV upholds is very much Ismaili, Shia, and Islamic. "It is the mandate of the Imam of the time to safeguard the individual’s right to personal intellectual search and to give practical expression to the ethical vision of society that the Islamic message inspires." Reference URLs > http://www.akdn.org/about_agakhan.asp & http://iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=103467

Ahlal Bayt

The Aga Khan IV is "49th Imam in direct lineal descent from Prophet Muhammad through Ali and Fatima." Reference URL > http://iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=110993. I dare you to challenge this thru a reputed scholarly institute that will stand behind you. Not even your buddy Mr.ex-Muslim Mostmerciful dot come has had any such success.

Shariah

If you are incorrect again as you mentioned that Muslims of the Nizari Ismaili Shia persuasion only uphold the batini aspects of the Shariah.

"The succession of the line of prophecy by that of Imamat ensures the balance between the shariah or the exoteric aspect of the faith, and its esoteric, spiritual essence. Neither the exoteric nor the esoteric obliterates the other. While the Imam is the path to a believer's inward, spiritual elevation, he is also the authority who makes the shariah relevant according to the needs of time and universe. The inner, spiritual life in harmony with the exoteric, is a dimension of the faith that finds acceptance among many communities in both branches of Islam." Reference URL > http://iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=110993

Prayers

Since you sincerely believe in the Holy Qu'ran Shariff, please back up your Salaah/Namaaz from the HQ, and only from it. Please quote me the verses were it states what to say, etc.m Unless your hidden Imam has commanded you to pray differently.

Imamate

How come I have never heard your Dai or the Dai of the Mustaali Dawoodi-Bohras never say -> "I have spoken to the our hidden Imam, and he has commanded us to etc. etc."?

I'm sorry to say this to you very bluntly, however I totally disagree with the story of the lineage of your guy's Imamate. It seems very familiar with that of the Ithnaasheri Shias.

Throughout the annals of history, the Ithnaasheris used that excuse that our Imam has gone into hidding in a cave, sky, clouds, and so has yours. Even in the course of history of the Nizari Ismaili Muslims, there have been many splinter groups that emerged, but none have succeeded in carrying on the torch/light of Imamate promised by Allah (swt) till the end of time...the Day of Judgement...except that of Nizari Ismaili Shia Muslims.

Fasting (Roza)/Hajj

There are no directives from the current Imam of the Age & Time, Aga Khan IV, commanding his followers/believers, or a particular section (i.e.Khojas) of the community (Jamat/Jamaat) not to fast or go for Hajj. I am a Khoja Ismaili Shia Muslim, and my family members keep Roza and have gone for Hajj. Many other Khojas (Ismaili Muslims) have as well. So your allegation that they do not, does not hold true.

In addition, I encourage all that can to go for Hajj & Umrah, and to circumvent around the Holy Kabaa, which is the birth place of our first Imam...Imam Ali (as).

You claim to have watched some of the Aga Khan's lecture, and in addition are on the Nizari Ismaili Shia Muslim Internet websites...I beg to differ, as it is apparent you have not or have intentionally omitted the factual evidences and information on this forum, however you conveniently copy and pasted material from an ex-Muslim's website >>>> Mostmerciful-dot-com, who is not at all any type of scholar.

Finality

In conclusion, I am not here to say I am right and you are wrong or vice versa, however when you or anyone else makes false allegations about my Imam, the Imam promised by Allah (swt), and his followers, our doctrines, practices, and our tariqah, I will raise my opinion.

The problem in my opinion with you guys, is that you do not have a (one) leader follow. Like I mentioned before, I have never heard a farman from your Imam or from your Dais quoting the Imam. The Ithnaasheris have their own issues, to put it lightly that none of their marjaee seem to be in communication with their hidden Imam Mahdi. So many of their followers are confused as they follow different Ayatollahs, who issue differing fatwas, that sometimes contradict each other. The Sunnis on the other hand seem to be lost, as they have their heads buried in the Holy Qu'ran, however have different interpretations, and cannot get over sectarian violence, terrorism, political issues. They seem to have missed the mark by not following the concept of Imamate as promised in the Holy Qu'ran, by Allah (swt), and not listening to the Holy Prophet (asa).

Yes I do give it to you guys in general that most so-called "Muslims" who follow the traditional Islamic are moderates, sincere to their beliefs, etc. However you guys in are not taught to think outside the box, and are bent stuck on your traditions. Whereas in ours, we have our own ways mandated from our Holy Imam, in addition we are taught to think outside the box, look at the other side of the fence, and accept the diversity in Islam + humanity.

All from One, and All to One.

Love & light!

-Momin

Re: Ismailis and Bohras
by Al-Uqul on Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:31 am

Dear al-momin,If your Read My Post,i Respect the Agha Khan for His Contribution to Scholarly Research and Awareness.

I Watched some of His lectures and Am on His site Sometimes.

I However See it for what it is.

My Dissagreement wiht The Agha khan is not him Being Freinds with Israel.

it is Him introducing a Doctrine wich is not Originally Isma'ili.

I Defend Khojas all the time and i have Defended the Agha khan Aswell.

Druzes and Agha Khanis Uphold shari'a Just The Batini Aspect of it.

Wich is a Interpretation not Rejection of
muslim code.

concerning agha khan he is not a Descendant of The Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)

The Stories of the Nizaris concerning a alleged son for Nizar ibn Mustansir is Quit funny and there are so many its Hard too Choose wich one is Right.

Also Whyw ould the Imam help Muhamamd burhanudeen when he is a False Da'i?

it is shaykh al-Makrami who is the True Da'i

the wahabis are ostricizing him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ATVbKQ ... re=related جرائم الشيعة الاسماعيلية1/2

(The Crimes of Isma'ili shi'ah)And the Zionist Evil Powers want to Destroy our Da'is.

Whereas Your Imam and Burhanudeen gewt full support.

this shows me they are deceivers.

Easily bought and Sold.

also we benefit from western Hospitals,chinese Paper,Pizza,and Saurkraut(but we are not supporters of these

----

Re: Ismailis and Bohras
by Al-Uqul on Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:38 am

Re: Ismailis and Bohras

Just bacause he ceased to be Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja he became ex Muslim? I thought beside shahada Salaat/Namaaz is must to be Muslim, then Roza and Hajj. Nizari Ismaili Agakhani Khoja do not perform Salaat/Namaaz, do not fast in Ramadan and do not go to Hajj. What do you call them?

Tell when did Vishnu become Muhammad and Ali Become Krishna and Salman al-Farsi became Gabriel(a.s)?

when did Vishnu and Krishna become PRe-Islamic Imams?

These people are fictionary and all schoalrs Agree on this today!

also Al-Hakim Bi Amrallah(a.s)

im sure you know his Harsh Stance on Wine Drinking and his Killing of people who sold Wine,Jew,christian or muslim or Whatever,even hindu.

Yet The Agha khan Serves Alcohol.

Hasan-i Sabbah killed His son for Drinking Alcohol.

Have you Read Da'a'im Al-islam?

What does it Say about Marrying a Christian or Jewish woman?

Ali he Said:It is impermissable to marry a Harbiya in dar al-Harb.

the Da'i An-numan also mentions ahadiths on how RasoolAllah Only Allowed marriuage to Kitabi Females when there was a Shortage of Muslim Women.

An-numan also mentions hadiths were a mumina(isma'iliyah) may only marry a mumin(a isma'ili)even if there are none where she lives she must remain patient.

im Sorry but This Contradicts The Agha Khan's Dealings.

With all Respect to him.

and all respect to my Nizari Brethren.

Countries!)

Prayers

Since you sincerely believe in the Holy Qu'ran Shariff, please back up your Salaah/Namaaz from the HQ, and only from it. Please quote me the verses were it states what to say, etc.m Unless your hidden Imam has commanded you to pray differently.

Momin

Brother can you tell me when your MHI is going to reintroduce Namaaz/Salat? I thought it was by end of 2009

Wasalaam

Momi Brother can you go here

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=5444

and take Quran challange

Prayers

From my understanding, a standardized text of the Ismaili Salaah/Namaaz has already been implemented within the Muslim Shia Nizari Ismaili Jamaat. These prayers are recited during Eids, funerals, etc.

Quran Challenge

Quickly glanced over the Qu'ran Challenge.

Let me interject by saying > What are you smoking man?

There are many things to take account in regards to the topic concept and doctrine of Imamate.

Here are a few: History, context, verses of the Holy Qu'ran, Hadiths, etc.

So whatever has been stated in the this so-called "challenge", does not hold water.

Now since you have brought up the topic of the "Qu'ran Challenge", can you provide with quotations from the Holy Qu'ran solely stating the prayers that you may and other so-called "Muslims" recite and perform daily.

Thanks in advance.

>>>>
Re: Ismailis and Bohras
by Muslim First on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:21 am

Prayers

Since you sincerely believe in the Holy Qu'ran Shariff, please back up your Salaah/Namaaz from the HQ, and only from it. Please quote me the verses were it states what to say, etc.m Unless your hidden Imam has commanded you to pray differently.


Momin

Brother can you tell me when your MHI is going to reintroduce Namaaz/Salat? I thought it was by end of 2009

Wasalaam
Muslim First

Posts: 3978
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:01 am
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Re: Ismailis and Bohras
by Muslim First on Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:24 am

Momi Brother can you go here

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5444

and take Quran challange
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