Syedna Saheb is 96 years not 100 years old

[S. Insaf]

Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, 52nd Dawoodi Bohra Dai was born on 6th March 1915 at Surat. So in this 2011 he is only 96 years old.

Even according to Hijri calendar he was born on 20th Rabiul Aakhar 1333. So in this 1432 year he is just 99 and not 100 years old.

Why are Bohras celebrating his 100-birthday this year? Especially when Bohras believe and wish that he will live till the day of Qayamat?
I want my friends from the other side of the divide to respond please.

[aqs]

Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, 52nd Dawoodi Bohra Dai was born on 6th March 1915 at Surat. So in this 2011 he is only 96 years old.

Even according to Hijri calendar he was born on 20th Rabiul Aakhar 1333. So in this 1432 year he is just 99 and not 100 years old.

Why are Bohras celebrating his 100-birthday this year? Especially when Bohras believe and wish that he will live till the day of Qayamat?
I want my friends from the other side of the divide to respond please.

Insaaf Saheb,

i didnt expect this child like whining from you, that oh he is JUST 99 and not 100 and still people are celebrating his 100th bday. We are celebrating his entering the centennial year and not completion of 100 years.
And please do inform me what you believe to be qayamat.

[aziz]

at least he has admitted that he is not a dawoodi bohra, so all his false respect to syedna was all lies ,and non of us responding here from the other dawoodi bohra side are your friends and will never be ,we do not like to be friends with snakes and scorpions.which is what you are in a human form,,
as aqs has rightly pointed out we are entering the centennial year in which the celebrations will be held for the whole year ,

[Al Zulfiqar]

Insaaf Saheb,

i didnt expect this child like whining from you, that oh he is JUST 99 and not 100 and still people are celebrating his 100th bday. We are celebrating his entering the centennial year and not completion of 100 years.
And please do inform me what you believe to be qayamat.

kothari apologist and politician aqs,

a clever self-serving excuse, but which holds no water as the kothar has officially announced that bohra community is celebrating syedna's 100th salgirah. by no stretch of imagination can someone celebrate their birthday a year in advance by indulging in semantics, saying 'oh, he has entered the 100th year, not completed it etc', you can use that lame and stupid argument for the fools of the community who worship syedna and do sajda to him and not for the intelligentsia who have god-given brains to think rationally.

the whole exercise is to hasten the grand celebrations lest the old man pass away before the goose that lays golden eggs disappears. this year collect 1000's of crores and next year collect some more. is there is no end to the greed and shameless deception of the kothari mafia?

as for what i believe to be qayamat, it is the day the present syedna passes away to meet his maker, apparently without a ruku chithhi. isnt that what you abde kafirs pray ten times every day, " khuda hamara dai ni umar ta qayamat rakhjo"? so logically when he dies its officially qayamat. there should be no successors to him and bohra community will be disbanded on the orders of allah through the hidden imam.

[profastian]

please do inform me what you believe to be qayamat

I can tell you what you mean by " live taa qayamat". You believe that Syedna is immortal and eternal. At the same time you say "T.U.S.", may God give him long life.
Quran warns those who wish a long life "Have you not seen old people who are handicapped and dependent on other's help, why do you want a long life?"

By your logic, we should wish for all old handicapped and dependant people to die...

[Conscíous]

By your logic, we should wish for all old handicapped and dependant people to die...

Maybe, we should pray with them, so the Almighty can fulfill their wishes and bring them closer to Him..

[ghulam muhammed]

Insafbhai is talking about Quranic logic and profastian is responding by giving it a colour as Insafbhai's logic. What a reply !!

[Al Zulfiqar]

Insafbhai is talking about Quranic logic and profastian is responding by giving it a colour as Insafbhai's logic. What a reply !!

thats because:

1. quran is not paramount in its importance for bohras, its the natiq-e-quran dai who is paramount.
2. the abde sydena worshipping kafirs like prof and his parrot colleagues have the lost the powers of reason or logic. their IQs are generally around 32-62 max.

[profastian]

Insafbhai is talking about Quranic logic and profastian is responding by giving it a colour as Insafbhai's logic. What a reply !!

thats because:

1. quran is not paramount in its importance for bohras, its the natiq-e-quran dai who is paramount.
2. the abde sydena worshipping kafirs like prof and his parrot colleagues have the lost the powers of reason or logic. their IQs are generally around 32-62 max.

1. You still don't understand do you. There is no difference between the two. Hence, no question of one more or less important than the other.
2. Look who is talking about logic and IQs

[aqs]

please do inform me what you believe to be qayamat

I can tell you what you mean by " live taa qayamat". You believe that Syedna is immortal and eternal. At the same time you say "T.U.S.", may God give him long life.
Quran warns those who wish a long life "Have you not seen old people who are handicapped and dependent on other's help, why do you want a long life?"

Insaaf Saheb,

Please dont put words in my mouth, i will tell what i mean. Just tell me what YOU mean by Qayamat.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Please dont put words in my mouth, i will tell what i mean. Just tell me what YOU mean by Qayamat.

kothari apologist and shameless politician aqs,

what insaf bhai or you think does not matter. what matters is that kothar says that "syedna ni umr ta qayamat baki rakhjo". so according to that logic, the day he dies, its qayamat. thats the official version and gospel truth. the day he dies, you are no longer a bohra, as bohras will cease to exist.

[S. Insaf]

Qayqmqt is believed to be:
1) the end of this world
2) a final day of judgment - when all big and small, irrespective of their belief and position will be arisen and awarded or punished according to their deeds in life here. No one will be able to catch your hand take to heven out of turn.
We will be able to recognise only one person i.e. Prophet Adam (s.a.) as he was not born and thus he will be only one not having navel on his belly.

[porus]

The Bohra concept of Qiyamat derives from medieval Ismaili mythology regarding 'cyclical time'.

Briefly, the Tenth Intellect (al-aql al-aashir) was charged with the creation of light into matter. His human counterpart, aashir-e-mudabbir, was charged with bringing humans back to light through guidance. This role was performed by Prophets in cycles of promulgation of Shariat. With the end of the cycle of Prophets and Shariat, this role is supposed to be performed by Imams. Imamat cycle will be ended by an Imam, known as Qaim al-Qiyamat. This will be when all humans will have been converted to light, interpreted as intellectual and spiritual enlightenment. That day will be the day of Qiyamat. (This is different from literal understanding of Quranic Qiyamat or interpretations of other Shia and Sunni sects.)

Bohras believe that Imam is alive and one of the descendants of al-Tayyib will be Qaim al-Qiyamat. Until his appearance, they believe that the Dai will represent the Imam.

So, when Bohras say 'ta roze qiyamat', they pray for guidance of Dai or Imam, if he decides to appear, to be available till the appearance of Qaim al-Qiyamat.

So, 'ta roze qayamat' refers to Mawla, any Mawla not just the present one. This is similar to raising your hand to touch forehead and lips when mentioning al-Tayyib. It is to represent current Imam and all his descendants.

That is the theory. In current practice, most Bohras believe tha they are referring to present Sayedna when praying for his life till 'the Day of Judgment'. That is the result of deliberate dumbing down of Bohras to serve their masters.

[profastian]

The Bohra concept of Qiyamat derives from medieval Ismaili mythology regarding 'cyclical time'.

Briefly, the Tenth Intellect (al-aql al-aashir) was charged with the creation of light into matter. His human counterpart, aashir-e-mudabbir, was charged with bringing humans back to light through guidance. This role was performed by Prophets in cycles of promulgation of Shariat. With the end of the cycle of Prophets and Shariat, this role is supposed to be performed by Imams. Imamat cycle will be ended by an Imam, known as Qaim al-Qiyamat. This will be when all humans will have been converted to light, interpreted as intellectual and spiritual enlightenment. That day will be the day of Qiyamat. (This is different from literal understanding of Quranic Qiyamat or interpretations of other Shia and Sunni sects.)

Bohras believe that Imam is alive and one of the descendants of al-Tayyib will be Qaim al-Qiyamat. Until his appearance, they believe that the Dai will represent the Imam.

So, when Bohras say 'ta roze qiyamat', they pray for guidance of Dai or Imam, if he decides to appear, to be available till the appearance of Qaim al-Qiyamat.

So, 'ta roze qayamat' refers to Mawla, any Mawla not just the present one. This is similar to raising your hand to touch forehead and lips when mentioning al-Tayyib. It is to represent current Imam and all his descendants.

That is the theory. In current practice, most Bohras believe tha they are referring to present Sayedna when praying for his life till 'the Day of Judgment'. That is the result of deliberate dumbing down of Bohras to serve their masters.

Many major in accuracies in this post...

[Al Zulfiqar]

Many major in accuracies in this post...

porus, welcome back after a long hiatus! we missed you.

profastian, abde kafir gadha rasgulla kya jaane?

[Humsafar]

porus, good to see you back!!

[ghulam muhammed]

The conduct of the dai points to the fact that qayamat is almost there. Some major signs :-

Hadhrat Abu Musa Ash'ari (R.A.) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhii Wassallam) said, "Qiyamah will come...

* When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.
* When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.
* When orators and lecturers lie openly.
* When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.
* When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.
* When lies prevail over the truth.
* When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.
* When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat.

The following is part of a lengthy Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood (R.A.) when he inquired from Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about the Signs of Qiyamah.

* People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.
* Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments.
* The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.
* The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.
* Gangsters and evil people will prevail.


CONCEITED PEOPLE:
Hadhrat Abbas (R.A) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) has said, "Islam will spread far and wide, across the seas. Horses will cross the land and seas in the cause of Jihaad. Then a time will come wherein a group of people will emerge which recites the Quraan. They will claim,
'We have recited the Quraan and is there anyone who understands the Quraan better than us? There is NO ONE more proficient than us in the study of the Quraan.'
Then Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) asked the Sahaba, "Do you see any good in their claims?" The Sahaba replied, "No". Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, "But these conceited claimants will be from my Ummah and will be the fuel of the Fire."
from "Signs of Qiyamah" (excerpts)

[accountability]

Porus As always it is a pleasure and we missed you.

[Al Zulfiqar]

bro gm,

abde kafirs are not afraid of signs of qayama, they know it will come when syedna passes away. they are more afraid and tremble in their torn payjamas at the mention of asgharali engineer and reformists.

[aqs]

The Bohra concept of Qiyamat derives from medieval Ismaili mythology regarding 'cyclical time'.

Briefly, the Tenth Intellect (al-aql al-aashir) was charged with the creation of light into matter. His human counterpart, aashir-e-mudabbir, was charged with bringing humans back to light through guidance. This role was performed by Prophets in cycles of promulgation of Shariat. With the end of the cycle of Prophets and Shariat, this role is supposed to be performed by Imams. Imamat cycle will be ended by an Imam, known as Qaim al-Qiyamat. This will be when all humans will have been converted to light, interpreted as intellectual and spiritual enlightenment. That day will be the day of Qiyamat. (This is different from literal understanding of Quranic Qiyamat or interpretations of other Shia and Sunni sects.)

Their is a difference between Noor and Light, in general terms they can be used interchangeably but the concept in which you have used, its two different things. To comment more on the subject i will violate my oath, Can you name your source as it looks similar but is slightly different from the books its mentioned in.

Bohras believe that Imam is alive and one of the descendants of al-Tayyib will be Qaim al-Qiyamat. Until his appearance, they believe that the Dai will represent the Imam.

So, when Bohras say 'ta roze qiyamat', they pray for guidance of Dai or Imam, if he decides to appear, to be available till the appearance of Qaim al-Qiyamat.

So, 'ta roze qayamat' refers to Mawla, any Mawla not just the present one. This is similar to raising your hand to touch forehead and lips when mentioning al-Tayyib. It is to represent current Imam and all his descendants.

Correct,
though it sounds like we believe that present Dai will live for eternity when we say ta roz qayamat, but its not the case. and Syedna(tus) repeats it in almost every Juma wasila that Rasullalah(saw) has said that when a person dies his qayamat has arrived.

That is the theory. In current practice, most Bohras believe tha they are referring to present Sayedna when praying for his life till 'the Day of Judgment'. That is the result of deliberate dumbing down of Bohras to serve their masters.

Porus, i dont think its deliberate. masses of every community are dumb about what they believe in. only few who wish to learn get the knowledge.

[Muslim First]

by ghulam muhammed on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:27 pm

The conduct of the dai points to the fact that qayamat is almost there. Some major signs

Br Gulam Muhammed

AS

By quoting Ahadith from any other sources besides Rawayat is doing "Bhagwat in front of Bhenses".

People like aqs do not believe in those Ahadith except when it is convient to Kothar.

They are member of secrete society and get secrete knowledge which has no basis in Qur'an or Sunnah of Prophet SAW as known to majotity of religion.

I believe orthodox Bohrism is like scientology. A secrete cult with lot of Gubli gook thrown into Islam.

Br. Biradar has made it plain to me elsewhere that there is no sense in westing time serching for Ahadith to educate these people.

Wasalaam

[porus]

Al Z, Humsafar, Accounty,

Thanks for the words of welcome. I too look forward to your contributions which I find thought-provoking and of enormous value.

Their is a difference between Noor and Light, in general terms they can be used interchangeably but the concept in which you have used, its two different things. To comment more on the subject i will violate my oath, Can you name your source as it looks similar but is slightly different from the books its mentioned in.

I suggest you tell us what the difference is by identifying another Arabic word for 'noor' or its English translation which is different from 'light'. I am not referring to ideas of modern science but to the ideas in Bohra mythological cosmogony. That idea is that the stuff of Universe is 'consciousness' which is transmuted into different types of matter including sentient beings with 'will'. Some very special beings (aashir-e-mudabbir) are empowered with the knowledge to get back to pure 'consciousness'. Thus noor/light is consciousness imbued with 'special' knowledge. This idea predates Islam and is found in various flavors in mystical traditions of ancient India, Babylon, Egypt, Persia and Greece.

though it sounds like we believe that present Dai will live for eternity when we say ta roz qayamat, but its not the case. and Syedna(tus) repeats it in almost every Juma wasila that Rasullalah(saw) has said that when a person dies his qayamat has arrived.

A person's Qiyamat is when that person dies? In that case, to wish that a person lives 'ta roze his Qiyamat' is like wishing a person to live until he dies!! A tautology of sorts, wouldn't you say?

[Biradar]

A person's Qiyamat is when that person dies? In that case, to wish that a person lives 'ta roze his Qiyamat' is like wishing a person to live until he dies!! A tautology of sorts, wouldn't you say?

Modern bohra religion is full of tautologies. According to our resident mathematician, their fundamental axiom is: Dai is divine. Hence, the following propositions (all tautologies) follow:

P1: Allah exists. (Da'i is divine. He says he exists. Hence, Allah exists)
P2: Da'i is speaking Quran. (Da'i is divine. Quran is Allah's word. Hence, Dai is speaking Quran)

many such amazing propositions were proved while you were absent. Too bad for you. Also, you are wasting your time talking about "mystical traditions of ancient India, Babylon, Egypt, Persia and Greece". These people only believe in material display of wealth. Such mystical talk is foreign to them unless it is accompanied with crores of rupees spent on brithdays and other frivolous events.

[JC]

Well said Bro Porus!

Mr. Burhanuddin is 96 or 100, does not matter at all ........

I have heard from someone who has connections in Saifee Mahal that few days there was a big fight between QJ and Muffi. It seems that the issue of NAS is being debated at large and battle lines are being drawn. QJ & Sons and Muffi & Sons are all out convincing other Bros & Sons that they could lead and 'give' them their due share in power and money .....

Also, in the very likely event of 101st not being Milad Mubarak and possibly be 1st Urs Mubarak the power struggle is at its climax. Some are saying Old Man should announce the NAS at this 100th Milad Mubarak and some are of the opinion that that should be done subsequently on another Gala and Milking event ....... the latter seems to be prevailing.

And people remember the dark horse ........... Khozema .......... he is capable of turning the tables!!

[ghulam muhammed]

It is reported that bohras in mumbai are gathered in saifee masjid and started matam ceremonies which will last for 100 hours. Naturally it will be like a relay in racing sports i.e. the one who is tired and fatigued will be replaced by a new abde waiting in the queue. One doesnt know whether to laugh, cry or split hairs on seeing this stupid, unislamic practice being propagated by a so called spiritual leader who calls himself god on earth.

[Humsafar]

GM, that's interesting. It would be a good idea if people can report how abdes are celebrating the birthday in their cities/jamats.

In Udaipur abdes are walking barefoot from Udaipur to Galiyakot - a distance of 160 km.

[Conscíous]

It seems the bhendi bazaar participants of the relay event of 100 hours matam are tired and fully drained out. They have called replacements from bandra from where a group of abdes have left on foot today and will head straight to raudat tahera to relieve the tired bohri mohalla abdes from whom they will take over the penance of beating their chests until a new group from suburban mumbai emerges and bails them out too.

Br GM,
Serious,,?? please say this is a joke?? Because, this is getting so insane .. I'm having problems, differentiating what is reality or fiction in your post

[ghulam muhammed]

Br GM,
Serious,,?? please say this is a joke?? Because, this is getting so insane .. I'm having problems, differentiating what is reality or fiction in your post

Bro BooM,

Its not a joke, a friend of mine from bandra has confirmed this nonsense and moreover you will not find any abdes jumping here and rubbishing this claim bcoz they too know that this is true. This cult has gone haywire and does insane things which are highly unpredictable. We once had Rajneesh whose disciples danced naked in groups which seemed like hysterical bouts and here we have abdes beating chests in chorus to the rhythm of ya husain. This cult claims that matam is an act of grief but surprisingly displays this grief on the happy occassion of their master's birthday, which confirms a fact that deep down in their sub conscious mind the grief of following this leader who has ripped them off royally prevails deep down there. Any naive person watching this mass hysteria will feel like he is visiting a mental asylum.

[ghulam muhammed]

Ghulam
I know how you must be feeling watching this History !!!!
Aqa Maula Zindabad....Long live AQA MAULA.

A few decades back the nazis said something similar..... HAIL HITLER.

[Maqbool]

Syedi Mazoon Saheb DM, Syedi Mukasir Saheb DM ,Shahzada Abbas BS Fakhruddin, Shahzada Qaid Joher BS Ezzuddin and other Qasre Aali Saheb start the Demolation of Bhindi Bazar project