Where do they get these Amil Sahebs

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Sister Lovely<br>It's lovely to see you here. People lets add the name Malayzia's Amil sahib in the list of Aqa Moula and 40 thieves. <p>Following entry has been made the ever-expanding list<br>- Amil of Toronto, Chicago& NY, Malayzia, Singapore, Hongkong, Mumbai, Karachi, East Africa and the gang <p>Back to the topic of this thread.."Where do they get these Amil Sahebs"<p>Ans : From the School of Dawaat

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So Br Qiyam ;It is o.k . to divorce your wife if she does not bear your children? Is this a kind of sabaq this daakoo Amil is going to teach?I still believe 100% in my sources because they were all members of the jamat!

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lovely, or does anybody else know this malaysian amil´s name?

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Been watching silently for a long time didnt post because this forum was getting nasty and personal.<p>But could not restrain my self when I saw Br Qiyam's posting about the AAmil he mentioned.<p>The above mentioned Aamil is famous for Dozing off when you are on your knees in front of him, requesting Raza or any other matter.<p>Are you aware of that Br Qiyam???<p>Honestly????

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Dear Mhd. Hussain,<br>I do not judge the actions of another person as morally right or wrong from my opinion. If he chose to only keep one wife but wanted children..he has the legal right to divorce them. I personally do not agree...but I have a child...and would be in the wrong to judge him for wanting a child too.<p>For him it was probably better to divorce a woman who couldn't provide something he wanted...then remaining married and holding a deep felt grudge against her.<p>Dear wondering,<br>I had never experienced such a thing with him...nor ever heard anyone in the jamats mention such a thing of him, honestly.

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Qiyam<br>Even if you know any wrongdoing or corruptions in the community I doubt you are going to come out right and say it. You are Khotars most trusted Ghullam. It's always up to you to be ignorant and insincere.

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sister jinx<br>thanks. i am always there for you , if you need any support. don`t ever give up!we must be united esp. when innocent people are simply persecuted due to awareness!!<p>the malaysian amil`s name i do not know as i do not attend the functions there.<p>i hope someday we all can meet without any fear!

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Dear Sister Jinx,<br>Did you read any of my replies to Mhd. Hussain. Where have I denied that amils such as Salman bhaisahib have not done wrong. I have had discussion with you and others on this and have said the same things. Maybe you've forgetten.<p>But it wrong to say all clergy are corrupt. It is wrong to say a majority are corrupt...because they are not. Some are..and they should be reported. Firstly, they should not be allowed by the Jamat to become corrupt...they are partially to blame...especially if they do nothing..and complain amongst themselves. These amils, bhaisahibs, mullahs, and muminin are human and make mistakes...but must be corrected.<p>Let me give you a simple example. Let say you, Sister Jinx, insulted me (though unintentionally) by something you said. This method of bad speech of your is something your not aware of. If I don't correct you...are you at fault. Obviously not. Let say you continue this for a number of years. Like most bohras...a rumor will come about that all women named Jinx have this trait...and are bad persons. You know this habit of bohras, I'm sure.<p>I am wrong in this scenario??? By me not correcting you (putting you in check) you continue you ways. And a rumor started. This is same rumor labeled with all amils and bhaisahibs. Some are bad...most are not.

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Br Qiyam: I still repeat most of these Amils are corrupt Because the Kothari system of commision & quotas make them do so-Those ideal & learned Amils are the stories of the past!

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Dear Mhd. Hussain,<br>Do you know of most of the amils and bhaisahib in the community...do you even know 15-20 of them? "Most" insinuated the majority...do you know of the majority amils in the community?

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Qiyam,<p>" These amils, bhaisahibs, mullahs, and muminin are human and make mistakes...but must be corrected."<p>This is inconsistent with your posts that recognize the Dai as the almighty. Should he not correct this ? If he is not in the know, should he not be ? If not, how can you trust him to lead you to Jannat ? After all he is quoted as speaking to the chosen few in his dreams, correct ?<p>Furthermore..." These amils, bhaisahibs, mullahs, and muminin are human and make mistakes...but must be corrected." Can you add the Dai to that ? If not, is he not human ?<p>Thanks....

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Good questions raised Beleiver- Br qiyam- Your turn!!!

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Qiyam<br>People who are chased out of Toronto are placed in Banglore. Why should you defend evil people if you are sincere? Do you know what is the punishment for thievery?? If you don’t punish people when they commit crimes it will destroy the community. That is why you see this corruption. <p>They recycle thieves from East Africa to Toronto to India- to Malayzia to Karachi.

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Dear Believer,<br>You could have easily answered these yourself:<p>"This is inconsistent with your posts that recognize the Dai as the almighty."<p>---In Islam, the teacher doesn't get blamed for the wrong actions of the student...nor does the son take the sins of the father. I didn't included the name of the Dai...because he has not made an islamic sin or ill action. He is responsible for appointing a proper amil. If the amil doesn't bad...he should be reported...and please don't use the sorry excuse that he gets transfer. The vast majority if reported...don't just get transferred. These are blanket statement with little based...but a few occurances.<p>"Should he not correct this? If he is not in the know, should he not be?<p>--He does when notified...but most people like to talk load to each other and not do anything.<p>"Can you add the Dai to that? If not, is he not human?"<p>--No...anyone human is capable of not commiting a sin according to Islam. It is the weak adherence to Islam of the human that makes him/her fail. Islam is not hard to follow...but most are weak in following it. We put other worldly thing ahead of it.<p>

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Br Qiyam: you are really talking crap here!So Dai is not human according to you ?Is he Infalliable like his dad claimed in Chandabhai galla case?

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That is just excuse from someone who hates Allah swt and his Prophet.<p>If you love Allah then you should know that no one would be spare from the punishment from Al-mighty God by claiming ignorance. Do you think Sayedna Burhanudin will get a chance to say - "O Allah, I wasn’t aware of what my Amil and my family were doing with my community"<p>Do you think there is no accountability in this kingdom of Allah??<p>Do you think collaborators of evildoers do not get punish?

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Dear Jinx,<br>What are you talking about? What has anything you written in your last post have to do with the topic.<p>Do you think Sayedna is responsible for the misdeed of a amil if he (the Dai) doesn't know about it? Your a fool if you think so.<p>The one who commits the misdeed is responsible for the misdeed. This basic teachings of Islam.

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So this Idiot Moulana knows everything else,infact Qiyam makes him out to be "all knowing" even knows the Imam in Pardah and he does not know anything about the amil doing wrong and even after having bought to light ignores knowledge.Qiyam you are fucked up in your mind, stop fooling arround<p>He is an accomplice and hence as much punishable for the wrong.

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to all,<p>I think an important or relevant question here is whether the corruption that is spoken of with regards to the bohra clergy any greater than the corruption found in any other clerical community. If one was doing an objective, scientific, sociological study on this matter, in order to establish credibility one would have to compare with other groups and demonstrate in some way relative levels of corruption. <p>Basically - is it the bohra community that is at fault, or is it simply a product of human nature.<p>(see Stanley Milgram's experiment regarding Americans and German populist collaboration in the Holocaust).<br>We obviously cannot conduct such a study on this board, but examples and the like would be particularly useful for progressing this discussion beyond the "he said - she said" stalemate.<p>I think qiyam has made a point that has not been addressed - while the dai is supposed to be kal masoom in religious matters, he is not omniscient like God, and so cannot be expected to know before hand which of his clerics is corrupt. Is he less effective at dealing with this corruption than other communities? Evidence? Or is there no community which deals with corruption effectively, and what does that imply about religion as a whole?<p>(sorry, this post sounds like an essay assignment for college students...)

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These people are lootings from the community and no attempt is made by Sayedna Burhanudin or his thugs to eradicate this problem. Well with the recent dahod incident we know how much Khotar is looting from the community. <p>He is 'supposedly' teaching religious and moral value but he failed to install in any of his own agent. And you are telling me this is the Dai/preecher/summoner to Islam????<p>Sayedna Burhanuddin is supposedly in contact with the hidden Imam & draw inspiration but amazingly this same old man cannot even handle his own employees’ affair. And amazingly can feign total ignorant of everything that is happening under his very own eyes.

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Just because some other religion or group does it, even if the majority allows such corruption does not mean that it is allowed.<p>This man ,moulana is himself currupt, he is manipulating human nature, taking money on false promises the best being the promise of being led to "jannat".<p>It is first that the indiviual- YOU is at fault. Stop protecting the wrong doer. Stand up, rise, recognise the wrong being done. It is not the amil clergy it is the "old man".<p>A fool and his money are easily parted.<p>Salaams.

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Like all other employers he could scrutinze. And after exposure why appoint him else where. Infact more the pointers of ill on the resume the sure appointment to ammalat to exploit the "maassom" moomeens.

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Dear Khairan,<br>You will not a college level response to your question...that's hopeful thinking.<p>Also, so far we a total of six to seven names of amils that are listed as having done corrupt things (actual evidence of for three). How many amils are there...I would guess at 50 to 60 throughout the world...possibly more. Yet we have the blanket statement that all amils are corrupt. Words speak for themselves.

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Br Qiyam : Has it ever occured to you that just because there are not reg complaints -things are o.k.?- Most bohris are meek like have you heard the saying- Biladi na gale Ghant (Bell) bandhva kon jaye? (Biladi=Amil & Mice=mumins) Hope you got my point & stop defending those suckers!

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So Br Qiyam ;You stiil have not answered my question about The Dai being the super human Or Infalliable?

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Qiyam,<p>It is one thing to be an apologist, but your responses now are bordering on being nonsensical.<p>He is the representative of God on earth, he talk to people in his sleep, he is not a mere mortal, but he has to be told that he has some corrupt Amils ?<p>Hell, can anyone tell him to just view this website ?<p>This is silly....

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According to Q stats 7 of the 50 amils "reported" corrupt, that is 14% currupt. These 14% oppress how many %age of bohras of the most intellect and rich ammalats.<p>Moula better talk to the Imam about this, does he report this in his dreams or just sleeps through!!!<p>Immam Tayeb, better come to the help of Sheikh Tayebally of Singapore.

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Dear Mhd Hussain,<br>I have answer your question two times now...he is human. To not commit sins..is not a superhuman traits...it is something Allah has placed on every human. It is the internal strenghth of the person to adhere to Islam.<p><br>Dear Believer,<p>"He is the representative of God on earth, he talk to people in his sleep, he is not a mere mortal, but he has to be told that he has some corrupt Amils ?"<p>---Was the Prophet mortal? What about Maulana Ali? Both of these persons have reports from both shiah and sunni of coming to them in their dreams..and both are rep. of Allah on earth (Awliya). They were in the mists of far more corrupt persons than Sayedna could ever imagine.

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Bhai Qiyam and all other like minded:<p>I guess you guys are living in fool’s paradise. The followers follow the leader. When leader himself never set precedence how these Amils could set such precedence. Let me share you some more pieces of information with people on this board.<p>Shiekh Zohair was made Amil of Toronto Jamaat despite the fact that he is not from Bait-e-Zainee (Syedna’s family). Guest what was the reason behind giving him Amalat of such a lucrative station! He saved the life of one of Syedna’s son while that idiot killed an innocent villager during his hunting spree (of course by making prompt moves and bribing in Bhai Engineer’s words govt. within govt. people). The latest news is he has bought a villa worth of about 10 million rupees in a posh Bombay locality (because he stayed for 4 full years). Cheers!<p>Another example: in 1997 when Syedna visited Bangkok Jamaat (last visited by his father in 1953) the then Amil of Bangkok Jamaat, Shiekh Saifuddin plundered the Jamaat’s funds [about 2 million US $ donated by one philanthropist lady to Jamaat] to make arrangements for Syedna and kins. When 3 days shopping/pleasure trip was over, people asked for accounts. He posted accounts on the Masjid’s notice board (remember where doing and talking about business is HARAM). People rejected his accounts and asked Shiekh Saifuddin to give HISAB of every single penny he spent for. He obviously failed to produce. He flew overnight to an undisclosed location after closing Darul Imarat without letting anyone know after getting continuous threats from jamaat members. Shiekh Moiz (Wali Mullah) flew to Bombay with all details. For sure, he was hidden under the umbrella of corrupt Kotharis and never brought to justice as of to date.<p>Another example is Tamim Bhai Saheb of Jeddah jamaat. He is not only corrupt (gets commission for jamaats business apart from purse full of salaams in Ryals) and a complete auocrate. Due to his misdeeds Jeddah Jamaat is almost broken down and Saudis have forcefully extradited all jamaat's nobles.<p>Please not that I am the witness of most of these events which I have mentioned while working abroad on my professional assignments.So Jinx please update your list of "Ali Baba and Chalees Chor".<p>These are not only examples. Jamaat’s history is full of such examples. All these amils are equally corrupt. They all receive their share in the loot in the name of Wajeebats. What else you could expect? <p>The worst part is we people are still in deep slumber and when it will be broken perhaps than it would be too late.<p>Questions:<p>1. Why Syedna children are called Shehzada and Zhezadies despite of knowing that even Rasool (SAW) and Mola Ali never aclaimed such titles for their children?<p>2. Why Syedna makes Zaris om qabars of our ISLAF despite of knowing the fact that they never liked Sona Chandi and Zaro-Javaher and mall in their lives?<p>3. Why he celerbrates his birthdays and accepts with Zaro-Javaher (to match the number of his birtdays as now he is 91)despite of knowing the fact that such show offs have never ever seen during prophet (SAW) or Mola Ali's time?<p>Can somebody get me the answer of these question so that I can post more?<br>

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Dear Sajid,<br>"When leader himself never set precedence.."<p>---Yes you are living in fool's paradise..if you believe this statement. No one, even on this board, can deny the self practiced leadership of the Dai. He recommended to the muminin to fast in Rajab...as there is much thawab in it...he first fasted for 10 years straight during this month as an example.<p>"Shiekh Zohair was made Amil of Toronto Jamaat despite the fact that he is not from Bait-e-Zainee"<p>--There is no precondition that an amil or bhaisahib be a member of the Dai's family.<p>Regarding the bhaisahibs you mentioned...the only one I can confer is Tamim bhaisahib...who is not the amil of the Jeddah jamaat. He was reported of his misdeeds and extradicate by the Khotar..not Saudi.<p>My take on the Bangkok Jamat is a view you report...but yourself entirely overlooked. The Jamat wanted reports of spending and in the end extracated the amil from the jamat. The money you complain about was, according to your report, donated willing by a philantropic lady. Where is the coercion you rant and rave about. If he indeed plundered the funds...where was the jamat secretary and treasurer??? They are also accountable just as much to the jamat. I would remind you, it is typical not the amil making the arrangement (money spending) for the Sayedna coming to a jamat in the first..it is the committee (usually led by the treasurer and secretary).<p>to your question:<p>1. Why Syedna children are called Shehzada and Zhezadies despite of knowing that even Rasool (SAW) and Mola Ali never aclaimed such titles for their children?<p>---Shazada and shazadi mean son and daughter in farsi. The Prophet and Maulana Ali spoke arabic. However, in their case, because of the stature of their children..the muslims refered to them with the terms maulana and maulatena for their sons and daughter.<p>2. Why Syedna makes Zaris om qabars of our ISLAF despite of knowing the fact that they never liked Sona Chandi and Zaro-Javaher and mall in their lives?<p>---based on what have you obtain this info.<p><br>3. Why he celerbrates his birthdays and accepts with Zaro-Javaher (to match the number of his birtdays as now he is 91)despite of knowing the fact that such show offs have never ever seen during prophet (SAW) or Mola Ali's time?<p>---based on what have you obtain this info.