Dawoodi Bohra Forum

I mean how logical is this that u pay some body to pay and then he pray for u. I mean does does Allah will really consider such dua?

I dont know when and where this wierd custom originated but there are many bohras who pay other bohras (mostly women) to recite the Quran and pass on the sawab to the souls of the dear ones who are dead. I know of many bohra women who take this 'contract' for as much as 100 Quran recitals and the best part is that this ritual is to be carried out in the month of ramzan. Now how can anybody recite the whole of Quran 100 plus times in a span of 30 days ! It is known as 'Quran khatam'.

ghulam muhammed wrote: Now how can anybody recite the whole of Quran 100 plus times in a span of 30 days !

They probably learnt it from my son. When he was a toddler, he would avidly listen to prayer relays from Makka and Madina. When we would ask him to recite surat Fatiha he would go:

"midullah daa...lin, me...em" imitating what he heard on the tv. I really liked his "Aameen" as cute elongated "meem", followed by triumphant smile blaring out "pari lidhu".

Seriously though, I know several people who can complete a para in about 15 minutes. That would mean they could complete the Quran in about 8 hours. So 30 'khatams' appear manageable. If 4 ladies get together they could, between them, knock out 100 'khatams' easily and share the, hopefully very generous' payment.

porus wrote: If 4 ladies get together they could, between them, knock out 100 'khatams' easily and share the, hopefully very generous' payment.

But there are individuals who claim to do 100 plus khatams in ramzan, mostly in surat and mumbai. They are mostly poor ladies who charge a pittance i.e. Rs.101/- per khatam.

It is quite common in our community for people to read one Para in 15 minutes.
We have these old ladies who will normally read out a yaseen or khatam at a price. This is usually done by poor ladies and Mulla Saahebs withlimited income. They call the renumeration "Hadya" or gift,as a price cannot be put on holy verses.
I believe that this is a fairly decent thing to do. I personally know of a poor lady in Ahmedabad doing this. Her husband is a ricshaw driver and this supplements their income, This is also common in other muslim communities. There are children of madrassas doing this as well and then there are groups of maulvis who will come to your house and do a khatam in a few hours. You just give them tea and biscuits and a small hadya .If you want you can also offer them dinner. But they do not demand for food or salaams .

In mainstream community it is custom to call children of yatim khana. They will come and do Khatam. Cost is Daal Chaval dinner, transportation cost by public bus and Hadiya to Yatim Khana.

Dear Bohraji
It all depends on the Niyyet (Intention) of this act. I personally feel whatever name we give to hadya for transacting Quran Recitations with material offerings can lead to complete deviant practice. Where rich will pass on the responsibility of being pious to service providers as such.

I had once debated with my family over reciting yaseen or quran for dead relatives over their graves. It’s a standard practice that every Friday or death anniversaries of relatives ones go to Qabrastan and recite yaseeen with intention that Sawaab will reach the dead. Also many a times it’s a casual see off greeting to those who are embarking on Hajj or Ziyarat tours to say “Humara Taraf thi Ziyarat Karjo” and Humara taraf thi Yaseen padhjo Turbat par” etc

In my opinion, we take with us whatever we do. We cant pray Namaaz, Quran, Hajj, Umra or Ziyarat on anyone’s behalf. We can always pray and ask Allah to bless our relatives and friends by virtue of our piety.

I m open to change my opinion on convincing arguments without abuse ( This comment is for special readers) Dear Bohraji please ignore this line.

The system would be rigged in favor of the rich. Good or bad, a person has to earn it while alive. A persons own character will determine the fate.

I had once debated with my family over reciting yaseen or quran for dead relatives over their graves.

In my opinion, we take with us whatever we do. We cant pray Namaaz, Quran, Hajj, Umra or Ziyarat on anyone’s behalf.

According to a narration, a woman from the tribe of Has`am went to the Prophet and said that her father was too old to sit on a mount and asked whether she could make Hajj for him. The Prophet replied that she could. (Bukhari, Hajj, 1; Muslim, Hajj, 407).

Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) also narrates: Sinan b. Salama al Juhani’s wife wanted someone to ask the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) if she could make Hajj on behalf of her mother who died. The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: “Yes” and added, “if your mother had owed some money and if you paid for it, her debt would be removed, wouldn’t it? Then, let her make Hajj for her mother.” (Bukhari, Jazau’s Sayd, 33)

I like the analogy from the prophet (saw) of Allah about the clearing of someone else's debt.

There are various etiquettes for doing Hajj on behalf of others for which you can google.

One other practice that I have been following for many years is that when I pray tahajjud, I ask Allah to send the sawab of my prayer to various groups of people. Sometimes I ask Allah to send the sawab to my living family, sometimes to those family members that have passed away, sometimes to the prophet (saw) and his family and sometimes to the entire muslim ummah. I learned this many years ago from an Imam in Chicago.

We've all heard about Sadaqa-e-Jariya. Where the sawab of the sadaqa keeps coming even after you are gone. One of the sadaqa-e-jariya is a well raised child who prays for the sake of his parents. Another one is helping build a mosque. Every person who prays in that mosque that you helped build will contribute towards your sawab without reducing his own.

So yes, you can ask Allah to send the sawab of Quran recitation, salah, hajj and other good deeds to other people. Whether they get it or not, is between Allah and them. Does that reduce your good deeds? Consider sending sawab to others as a good deed in itself. Like the example the prophet (saw) gave of helping someone out of his or her debt.

Hi Anajmi

Thanks for the references and explanation. I agree with your post. I m wrong in my opinion. I shall change my attitude. Richness of deeds depends on the intention of the doer. But as matter of rule. Prayers and obligation can be performed on other’s behalf. Point taken.

Thanks

humanbeing wrote:Dear Bohraji
It all depends on the Niyyet (Intention) of this act. I personally feel whatever name we give to hadya for transacting Quran Recitations with material offerings can lead to complete deviant practice. Where rich will pass on the responsibility of being pious to service providers as such.

I had once debated with my family over reciting yaseen or quran for dead relatives over their graves. It’s a standard practice that every Friday or death anniversaries of relatives ones go to Qabrastan and recite yaseeen with intention that Sawaab will reach the dead. Also many a times it’s a casual see off greeting to those who are embarking on Hajj or Ziyarat tours to say “Humara Taraf thi Ziyarat Karjo” and Humara taraf thi Yaseen padhjo Turbat par” etc

In my opinion, we take with us whatever we do. We cant pray Namaaz, Quran, Hajj, Umra or Ziyarat on anyone’s behalf. We can always pray and ask Allah to bless our relatives and friends by virtue of our piety.

I m open to change my opinion on convincing arguments without abuse ( This comment is for special readers) Dear Bohraji please ignore this line.

Your opinion is completely correct(according to the Dawoodi borhra POV). we take with us whatever we do. We cant pray Namaaz, Quran, Hajj, Umra or Ziyarat on anyone’s behalf. We can always pray and ask Allah to bless our relatives and friends by virtue of our piety.

pheonix wrote:

humanbeing wrote:Dear Bohraji
It all depends on the Niyyet (Intention) of this act. I personally feel whatever name we give to hadya for transacting Quran Recitations with material offerings can lead to complete deviant practice. Where rich will pass on the responsibility of being pious to service providers as such.

I had once debated with my family over reciting yaseen or quran for dead relatives over their graves. It’s a standard practice that every Friday or death anniversaries of relatives ones go to Qabrastan and recite yaseeen with intention that Sawaab will reach the dead. Also many a times it’s a casual see off greeting to those who are embarking on Hajj or Ziyarat tours to say “Humara Taraf thi Ziyarat Karjo” and Humara taraf thi Yaseen padhjo Turbat par” etc

In my opinion, we take with us whatever we do. We cant pray Namaaz, Quran, Hajj, Umra or Ziyarat on anyone’s behalf. We can always pray and ask Allah to bless our relatives and friends by virtue of our piety.

I m open to change my opinion on convincing arguments without abuse ( This comment is for special readers) Dear Bohraji please ignore this line.

Your opinion is completely correct(according to the Dawoodi borhra POV). we take with us whatever we do. We cant pray Namaaz, Quran, Hajj, Umra or Ziyarat on anyone’s behalf. We can always pray and ask Allah to bless our relatives and friends by virtue of our piety.

I think that you are the Abde of a new era,who knows nothing but Buhanruddin Mola and Muffy Mola. You will probably miss your namaaz just to get the deedaar of Sayedna. ( I have witnessed this many times )

If you do not pray Beori regularly then you must have atleast prayed the bevri on lait ul Qadr. There is a namaaz for parents, whether they are alive or dead.
Even when you go for Hajj, The mulla Saaheb will advice you on the same.You can also perform tawaafs for the dead parents. Please do not post false news as this maya lead you to commit a great sin on behalf of others.

Biraadar tu naseehat sun
Haqiqat na gulon tu chun.........
haq ne tu apnavi le
Haraam ne tu thukraavi le.
Halaal na ek rupya ma barakat che
Haraam na crore to naiz che