Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Dear Members, here from both sides...

I am living in Kuwait with my family and I have already settled newly house in India, now i have not paid any waajebat and sabil from 7 years and my wife she also with my decision , and we concluded that we will never pay any kind of money to kothar instead we will donate to some needy people around 20,000 rs or more per year (as per my income) . I just want to know what kind of circumstances i am going to face ? I don't have even E-Jamaat card, but my name is registered before 10 years here in Kuwait jamaat and they called me many times to pay my due. As per my knowledge they won't provide me anything like razaa, jiyaraat ,Nikah of my children or grave..etc whatever else ..i don't care at all,, but i want to know what maximum they (jamaat goons) can go against me or my relatives (parents, brothers..etc) ?

there wont be any problem for u at all, but u wont be allowed in any jamaat jaman, and may be in some long time once they notice u are not paying sabil there will be issue, and most probably they will ask u to pay all due wajebaat of last 7 years and they will void ur zakaat and will ask to pay zzakaat once again.

In a place like India do they check if you are registered ? Can they stop you from attending waaz and sneaking in for jaman?

Bohra spring wrote:In a place like India do they check if you are registered ? Can they stop you from attending waaz and sneaking in for jaman?

if anyone stops you from attending waaz, well then, the paap is on the person stopping.

whether you choose to give waajebat or not is your choice, it is not a sin, but stopping from attending vaaz certainly is.

but im surprised that you want to "sneak" in for a jaman.

Ideally, if you want to refuse to pay waajebat, you should have imaan enough that you will not eat food that you have contributed towards, otherwise, you are just eating haram ka khaana.

and by the way, dont bother linking this comment to how the kothar is eating haraam ka khana, because that is something that they have to answer to their imaan.

you decide if you want to "sneak" in for jaman or be man enough to admit that you have no right over it.

zinger wrote:

Bohra spring wrote:In a place like India do they check if you are registered ? Can they stop you from attending waaz and sneaking in for jaman?

if anyone stops you from attending waaz, well then, the paap is on the person stopping.

whether you choose to give waajebat or not is your choice, it is not a sin, but stopping from attending vaaz certainly is.

but im surprised that you want to "sneak" in for a jaman.

Ideally, if you want to refuse to pay waajebat, you should have imaan enough that you will not eat food that you have contributed towards, otherwise, you are just eating haram ka khaana.

and by the way, dont bother linking this comment to how the kothar is eating haraam ka khana, because that is something that they have to answer to their imaan.

you decide if you want to "sneak" in for jaman or be man enough to admit that you have no right over it.

Well caught zinger
""SNEAK IN FOR A JAMAN""
My my the reformists are really caught with their pants down.
Proves all which we have been saying over the years.
The only agenda of the reform movement is not to pay wajebats and SNEAK in for a jaman too.
If we stop all wajebats, I am sure there will be no reformists left except for a trickle of hard core DAI haters.(Bohra spring would certainly be in line first to be taken back)

pheonix wrote:

zinger wrote:
if anyone stops you from attending waaz, well then, the paap is on the person stopping.

whether you choose to give waajebat or not is your choice, it is not a sin, but stopping from attending vaaz certainly is.

but im surprised that you want to "sneak" in for a jaman.

Ideally, if you want to refuse to pay waajebat, you should have imaan enough that you will not eat food that you have contributed towards, otherwise, you are just eating haram ka khaana.

and by the way, dont bother linking this comment to how the kothar is eating haraam ka khana, because that is something that they have to answer to their imaan.

you decide if you want to "sneak" in for jaman or be man enough to admit that you have no right over it.

Well caught zinger
""SNEAK IN FOR A JAMAN""
My my the reformists are really caught with their pants down.
Proves all which we have been saying over the years.
The only agenda of the reform movement is not to pay wajebats and SNEAK in for a jaman too.
If we stop all wajebats, I am sure there will be no reformists left except for a trickle of hard core DAI haters.(Bohra spring would certainly be in line first to be taken back)

look idiot, I am not a reformist and let me talk for my self.....in my life I have paid so many funds in kothar, that even if I sneak for free jaman for remaining of my life, yet kothar will be profitable.

and btw do u even know these jamans are not even done by kothar, but they are done by local jamaats, kothar just extracts money and fillls swis accountss, while local jamaat struggles for small amount, specially for karzan.

how I know all this? coz I my self is jamaat member.

Phoenix how easy it is to trap you to comment ....so predictable..now you feel good

Why are you surprised , I don't need to sneak in , it is my entitlement because I pay sabeel, pay wajebat and some abdes announces every one is invited including mehmano. I have stated before I am a munafik and dushman from within. One that you would say lanat, not say nam during Misaq.

Yes I said sneak in for jaman , to encourage non paying people to attend waaz and Gate crush into every event un invited. It is a public event , I have paid for it and those who don't should make most of it.

pheonix wrote:

zinger wrote:
if anyone stops you from attending waaz, well then, the paap is on the person stopping.

whether you choose to give waajebat or not is your choice, it is not a sin, but stopping from attending vaaz certainly is.

but im surprised that you want to "sneak" in for a jaman.

Ideally, if you want to refuse to pay waajebat, you should have imaan enough that you will not eat food that you have contributed towards, otherwise, you are just eating haram ka khaana.

and by the way, dont bother linking this comment to how the kothar is eating haraam ka khana, because that is something that they have to answer to their imaan.

you decide if you want to "sneak" in for jaman or be man enough to admit that you have no right over it.

Well caught zinger
""SNEAK IN FOR A JAMAN""
My my the reformists are really caught with their pants down.
Proves all which we have been saying over the years.
The only agenda of the reform movement is not to pay wajebats and SNEAK in for a jaman too.
If we stop all wajebats, I am sure there will be no reformists left except for a trickle of hard core DAI haters.(Bohra spring would certainly be in line first to be taken back)

Atleast sneaking in for a Jaman is better than sneaking out of Sri Lanka with diamonds in the Pagri, or sneaking millions out of Tanzania OR SNEAKING OUT OF KARACHI WHEN YOUR FOLLOWERS ARE BOMBED.

Hold down guys before knowing ,,, I am not going anywhere for jaman except day of ashura.. my wife tried to go in some mohram waaz (my wife is not frequent visitor) ,, she try to go by saying e-jamaat is missed by her, and she never tried to have food from jaman or other personal benefits. and she never complains to me that she has no access to any social function ...even she does not like to stay in most of waaz because when watch around people they are always gossiping , childrenes are playing , some of childerens they bring school home work to finish.. and she noticed most of people they came in waaz just for show up and feel like club...

yusuf78 wrote:Hold down guys before knowing ,,, I am not going anywhere for jaman except day of ashura.. my wife tried to go in some mohram waaz (my wife is not frequent visitor) ,, she try to go by saying e-jamaat is missed by her, and she never tried to have food from jaman or other personal benefits. and she never complains to me that she has no access to any social function ...even she does not like to stay in most of waaz because when watch around people they are always gossiping , childrenes are playing , some of childerens they bring school home work to finish.. and she noticed most of people they came in waaz just for show up and feel like club...

I agree with what ever u are saying, but make sure ur family specialy children get drifted away from ahlul bayt and ISLAM.

brother yusuf,

first of all let me congratulate you on your courage and wise way of thinking. you are absolutely right in that the kothar is an evil establishment which is exploiting a gullible and fearful community in the name of religion. their primary tool is social boycott, wherein you are unable to attend any public functions in the masjid/markaz and sometimes they will even act if they come to know that you are attending private parties/dinners etc in bohra homes.

you already know what the consequences are of non-payment or disobedience. as you mention, you do not give a damn whether they prevent you from attending events and jamans etc, but are worried about the consequences for your closest relatives. that is precisely what most bohras are afraid of, being such a close-knit community. even if you walk out with your entire family, there are still some more connections; in-laws, cousins, aunts, uncles and so on, who will still be affected.

it takes a rare individual with the guts to break free, not just from this evil enslavement, but even to break away from your near and dear ones who may not have the gumption to digest this bitter pill. they will perforce abandon you, revile you and curse you. some of them will even turn enemies and do their utmost to damage you in every way possible. a point will come during your decision making process when you will wonder whether you are not being utterly selfish and inconsiderate in taking this extreme way out and causing your parents, siblings and family so much grief and pain. that is the point when even the strongest capitulate and resign themselves to their fate, viz, to remain within the community and pay up the exorbitant moneys demanded and which inexorably keep going up every year. there is no respite, no relief, no mercy. the wheels of cruelty and greed keep grinding you down evermore.

you are now at a crossroads, choose societal comforts and warmth within your friends and family circle or strike out on your own for the sake of your conscience and principles. the sacrifices you will have to make will be enormous, heartfelt and gut-wrenching. the majority of reformists have been through this, but the fires that burned within them, the fires of independence, of ethical and moral outrage which will not accept tyranny, exploitation and injustice kept them going, until they overcame the painful separations and hurdles placed in their path, with loss of jobs, businesses, social networks and familial love.

be prepared to encounter another form of death. one death comes at the end of your life, this death is of your own choosing. it can be very sad and painful as an experience. be prepared also to face the eventuality that some of your relatives who do not join you may be assaulted, both emotionally and even physically simply because of their close associations with you. there will be serious consequences. but what matters at the end is how strong you are. as the death of an individual causes ripples in the lives of all those affected, your 'demise' from the community will cause ripples too. but like all ripples they will be temporary, soon the waters settle and everyone goes back to their comfort zones and routines.

although your question was patently rhetorical in nature, i still felt compelled to be elaborate in my reply for the benefit of all those who visit this forum and struggle with this dilemma every day, every hour. reflect on this, is it better to die only once or die a thousand deaths from indignity, humiliation, injustice and exploitation every day at the hands of a tyrannical and merciless establishment?

Bro yusuf,

You will not be denied entry for vayez as there is no system wherein one has to flash their e-jamat cards while entering the masjid but you will face problems during your children's nikah and funeral of your family (God forbid) as this is the only time when kothar extracts all your past unpaid dues with interest. Although nikah can be performed by a kazi of any sect as it is very much within the tenats of Islam but this is considered to be a big taboo in bohras, a burial also cannot be stopped by kothar on legal grounds but very few bohras have the guts to challenge them. Hence you have to chose whether you want a sect/community to take precedence over Islam or the other way round because these restrictions imposed by kothar are very big sins in Islam but they get away with it as there is no resistance from the community. You may not face a threat of excommunication unless you are a known reformist but you may be deprived of certain social gatherings.

@ Bohra Spring - Sorry, i never meant for anyone to pile on to my words and build on it. i was only saying that the mentality of "sneaking in" is wrong. Pay your dues and by all means, be a part of everything. if you dont want to pay your dues, then it is not right to want to be part of the event.

Although, once again, if they stop you from attending vaaz just because you have not paid your dues, then it is absolutely wrong and let the sin rest on their heads.


@ Yusuf78 - what mmbukhari is saying is right. dont let yur family drift away. Yes, i agree that a number of people attend muharram vaaz just to socialise, but that is only a mere handful, and you will find them in both, us and reformists as well.
i remember seeing a post by some member who had clearly pointed out reformists, in a muharram vaaz, looking bored and disinterested, so to generalise opinions based on few stray incidents is wrong.

brother zinger wrote" i remember seeing a post by some member who had clearly pointed out reformists, in a muharram vaaz, looking bored and disinterested, so to generalise opinions based on few stray incidents is wrong"
Jis ne Biyani ka maza lia hou,ouse sade chawal ras nahi atte.

@ Yusuf Bhai,
Try to follow what I have done. It must have been atleast 6 years since I have not attented a major jamaat function like Muharram or some big raat. However I try to attend the private jamans that my friends invite me, like darees,etc. I try to attend as much as salaat Janaaza and the subsequent burial. I have kept a very low profile in the community and so, have been able to pay the minimum wajebaat required. Any hoob money that I wish to give,I give it through an abde friend who is in many committees without my name. When I go for ziayarat, we normally book a room for some rest and attend the jaman. We do not stay the night. I beleive in staying in the society, it does not matter even on the fringes. This way I know what is going on, I am there for my friends during the happy events and most importantly during the funerals at the death of a loved one. At marriages and normal ups and downs of a middle class life. A lot of fellow bohras are doing something similar. Keep a low profile and do not go to the devri unless absolutely necessary.

seeker110 wrote:brother zinger wrote" i remember seeing a post by some member who had clearly pointed out reformists, in a muharram vaaz, looking bored and disinterested, so to generalise opinions based on few stray incidents is wrong"
Jis ne Biyani ka maza lia hou,ouse sade chawal ras nahi atte.

Magar seeker bhai, roz-roz to biryani nahin kha sakte hain na, roz to hum saade chawal hi kha kar khush rahte hain na

anyways, main samjha nahin aap kya kehna chahta hain. would you mind clarifying your words please?

Yusuf
First Identify your roots of being a Bohra, feel yourself what it is to be a bohra, is it just attending functions, paying taxes, haggling over wajebat and sabeel, fearing amils and Kothari shehzadas.

What is it that keeps you or wanting to remain in bohra fold, what is keeping you attached, fear or love ?

Then decide, how much can you adjust / accommodate / compromise to remain in bohra fold ! Share on these forum your thoughts it will help many of us like you in dilemma agree or disagree.

Any community you live in, be it religious or social. You will incur expenses, rigid rules, difficult people throwing weight around etc. So there is no escape, there is no absolute freedom. If you really seek freedom, seek it from within. Learn about Islam. Its internal salvation, a feeling of satisfaction of what you do in agreement with words of Allah, which is written in Quran, which is common sense, which is fair as natural justice. You may not be able to follow everything, but strive to do so. Aim the Sky you may land on clouds !

You make your own culture, you will define your own culture going forward, so pick and choose what you want to shape your self and family into. Choice is yours not kothar’s or community’s.

You will live and die as destined. You earn your bread and butter so why fear. And once dead who cares !

Dont worry about relatives, we all are living our destinies, sorrows and happiness. Allah has given Aql and tolerance to everyone. You are not responsible for someone’s thoughts or misery. Don’t let anyone blackmail you into something you cant defend.

Zinger bhai jab mei majlis mei jata houn tua mei koie alim sea khuch seekhna mangta houn. Mei chahta houn ke bolne wale ne ous ki taqrir par kutch mehnat ke hou.Waiz mei koie flavor nahi hota.Bilkul koe jahil shaksh uot patang bak ta hou. Jab mei dekhta houn ke merea 18 saala beta 10 sae 15 mintoon ki speech ke leya kae din mehnat karta hai tuo dil chahta hai esea ghor sae snu.Waiz mei wo taste nahi hai.
Ap ko muslim scholars ki taqreer sunni chahye.Phir dekho kiya farak hai. Biryani kae qisim ke hoti hai,sade chawal, sade chawal he hai.

seeker110 wrote:Zinger bhai jab mei majlis mei jata houn tua mei koie alim sea khuch seekhna mangta houn. Mei chahta houn ke bolne wale ne ous ki taqrir par kutch mehnat ke hou.Waiz mei koie flavor nahi hota.Bilkul koe jahil shaksh uot patang bak ta hou. Jab mei dekhta houn ke merea 18 saala beta 10 sae 15 mintoon ki speech ke leya kae din mehnat karta hai tuo dil chahta hai esea ghor sae snu.Waiz mei wo taste nahi hai.
Ap ko muslim scholars ki taqreer sunni chahye.Phir dekho kiya farak hai. Biryani kae qisim ke hoti hai,sade chawal, sade chawal he hai.

Bro seeker in majalis of db there is not religion speech actually these majalis are marketing speeches ,they are selling Islam ,they all are bloody crook merchant under white rob,we all are atm machines for them

seeker110 wrote:Zinger bhai jab mei majlis mei jata houn tua mei koie alim sea khuch seekhna mangta houn. Mei chahta houn ke bolne wale ne ous ki taqrir par kutch mehnat ke hou.Waiz mei koie flavor nahi hota.Bilkul koe jahil shaksh uot patang bak ta hou. Jab mei dekhta houn ke merea 18 saala beta 10 sae 15 mintoon ki speech ke leya kae din mehnat karta hai tuo dil chahta hai esea ghor sae snu.Waiz mei wo taste nahi hai.
Ap ko muslim scholars ki taqreer sunni chahye.Phir dekho kiya farak hai. Biryani kae qisim ke hoti hai,sade chawal, sade chawal he hai.

ok, thanks for the clarification.

seeker110 wrote:Zinger bhai jab mei majlis mei jata houn tua mei koie alim sea khuch seekhna mangta houn. Mei chahta houn ke bolne wale ne ous ki taqrir par kutch mehnat ke hou.Waiz mei koie flavor nahi hota.Bilkul koe jahil shaksh uot patang bak ta hou. Jab mei dekhta houn ke merea 18 saala beta 10 sae 15 mintoon ki speech ke leya kae din mehnat karta hai tuo dil chahta hai esea ghor sae snu.Waiz mei wo taste nahi hai.
Ap ko muslim scholars ki taqreer sunni chahye.Phir dekho kiya farak hai. Biryani kae qisim ke hoti hai,sade chawal, sade chawal he hai.

Munafiq,
Aql aur Imaan ghar par chhod kar masjid mein aayega to Biryani bhi tujhe sukhe saade chaawal hi lagenge....agli baar kaan aur Aql khule aur dil saaf rakh kar waez sunna...inshallah pata chalega ki Ilm ka kaisa dariya behta he....ye to sunne wale ke upar munassar he ki woh is Ilm ke dariya se apni Aql ke ghare mein kitna bhar sakta he.

Fateh wrote:Bro seeker in majalis of db there is not religion speech actually these majalis are marketing speeches ,they are selling Islam

Munafiq,
Is it so? Then, you are stating that DB majalis are sessions for trading Islam? But then, this is such a crime! Or is it that Allah himself wants this to happen?

Maybe a quick reading of Holy Quran, Surah at Tawbah, Ayat 111(Holy Quran 9:111) is what is needed by you.

By God, DBs are trading Islam as per Allah's wish in the Holy Quran, isn't it? Or do you now have objection to what even Allah has ordained in the Holy Quran?

BTW, it would be interesting to know what reformists are trading in the name of Islam, since as per your own admission DBs are the ones trading Islam?

progticide wrote:

seeker110 wrote:Zinger bhai jab mei majlis mei jata houn tua mei koie alim sea khuch seekhna mangta houn. Mei chahta houn ke bolne wale ne ous ki taqrir par kutch mehnat ke hou.Waiz mei koie flavor nahi hota.Bilkul koe jahil shaksh uot patang bak ta hou. Jab mei dekhta houn ke merea 18 saala beta 10 sae 15 mintoon ki speech ke leya kae din mehnat karta hai tuo dil chahta hai esea ghor sae snu.Waiz mei wo taste nahi hai.
Ap ko muslim scholars ki taqreer sunni chahye.Phir dekho kiya farak hai. Biryani kae qisim ke hoti hai,sade chawal, sade chawal he hai.

Munafiq,
Aql aur Imaan ghar par chhod kar masjid mein aayega to Biryani bhi tujhe sukhe saade chaawal hi lagenge....agli baar kaan aur Aql khule aur dil saaf rakh kar waez sunna...inshallah pata chalega ki Ilm ka kaisa dariya behta he....ye to sunne wale ke upar munassar he ki woh is Ilm ke dariya se apni Aql ke ghare mein kitna bhar sakta he.

thank you for that progticide bhai, main yehi kehne wala tha ki waaz main kya sunne ko aur seekhne ko milta hain, sunne waale ke upar hain, albiet, i would have said it a little quietly and thoda shanti se

progticide wrote:

Fateh wrote:Bro seeker in majalis of db there is not religion speech actually these majalis are marketing speeches ,they are selling Islam

Munafiq,
Is it so? Then, you are stating that DB majalis are sessions for trading Islam? But then, this is such a crime! Or is it that Allah himself wants this to happen?

Maybe a quick reading of Holy Quran, Surah at Tawbah, Ayat 111(Holy Quran 9:111) is what is needed by you.

By God, DBs are trading Islam as per Allah's wish in the Holy Quran, isn't it? Or do you now have objection to what even Allah has ordained in the Holy Quran?

BTW, it would be interesting to know what reformists are trading in the name of Islam, since as per your own admission DBs are the ones trading Islam?

Dear brother ,please do not judge me as munafiq ,i have total faith in first of Allah & then shia Ismail mustaali tayabbi dawa thats dawoodi bohara .so let give up this to almighty Allah that wheather i am munafiq or not.Now second thing about trading of Islam ,for your kind info in each & every city of world who ever may go for waiz first do deal with jumat for performing waez.Last year in our city waiezin was from qasre ali took 11lakh to perform waiz.so please what is this ?aur bhai agar aap ashura pure dus din apane kharche se jaman bhi karna chahte ho to najava plus vaezin ka salam plus amil ke salm ki saudabaji karni padati hai. To bhai aap hi batao ye trading nahi hai to aur kya hai?Aur taqrir ki to baat hi na karo to achha hai.

Progticide is definitely a kotari agent. He doesnt see anything wrong with the Dawat and comes on progressive site to defend the his bosses.

progticide wrote:

seeker110 wrote:Zinger bhai jab mei majlis mei jata houn tua mei koie alim sea khuch seekhna mangta houn. Mei chahta houn ke bolne wale ne ous ki taqrir par kutch mehnat ke hou.Waiz mei koie flavor nahi hota.Bilkul koe jahil shaksh uot patang bak ta hou. Jab mei dekhta houn ke merea 18 saala beta 10 sae 15 mintoon ki speech ke leya kae din mehnat karta hai tuo dil chahta hai esea ghor sae snu.Waiz mei wo taste nahi hai.
Ap ko muslim scholars ki taqreer sunni chahye.Phir dekho kiya farak hai. Biryani kae qisim ke hoti hai,sade chawal, sade chawal he hai.

Munafiq,
Aql aur Imaan ghar par chhod kar masjid mein aayega to Biryani bhi tujhe sukhe saade chaawal hi lagenge....agli baar kaan aur Aql khule aur dil saaf rakh kar waez sunna...inshallah pata chalega ki Ilm ka kaisa dariya behta he....ye to sunne wale ke upar munassar he ki woh is Ilm ke dariya se apni Aql ke ghare mein kitna bhar sakta he.

Sahi Baat.
Is baar ,majlis mein bayaan hoga aur hum sab muminen ko batayenge ge jab Karachi mein Bomb Dhamaka hua to Mansoos saahab Columbo Que Tashreef le gaye. Aur yeh bhi bataayenge ke unho ne Bomb blast ke marizon ko chor kar ,Columbo me ziyafat ka mazaa Que luta rahein the. Ek raaz bhi kholeinge ke que ek clean shaven mumin mukhlis ko dargah ke musafir khaano me zaleel kiya jaata hai.Lekin woh clean shaven mumin ko shaikh ka khitaab ataa karte hain. Jaise Columbo me hua. Shayad mood main ho toe, yeh bhi zikar hoga ke kabhi apne sasur ke Ambassador Hotel ke bar mein kisi rangeen shaam ko ...............

Fateh wrote:

progticide wrote: Munafiq,
Is it so? Then, you are stating that DB majalis are sessions for trading Islam? But then, this is such a crime! Or is it that Allah himself wants this to happen?

Maybe a quick reading of Holy Quran, Surah at Tawbah, Ayat 111(Holy Quran 9:111) is what is needed by you.

By God, DBs are trading Islam as per Allah's wish in the Holy Quran, isn't it? Or do you now have objection to what even Allah has ordained in the Holy Quran?

BTW, it would be interesting to know what reformists are trading in the name of Islam, since as per your own admission DBs are the ones trading Islam?

Dear brother ,please do not judge me as munafiq ,i have total faith in first of Allah & then shia Ismail mustaali tayabbi dawa thats dawoodi bohara .so let give up this to almighty Allah that wheather i am munafiq or not.Now second thing about trading of Islam ,for your kind info in each & every city of world who ever may go for waiz first do deal with jumat for performing waez.Last year in our city waiezin was from qasre ali took 11lakh to perform waiz.so please what is this ?aur bhai agar aap ashura pure dus din apane kharche se jaman bhi karna chahte ho to najava plus vaezin ka salam plus amil ke salm ki saudabaji karni padati hai. To bhai aap hi batao ye trading nahi hai to aur kya hai?Aur taqrir ki to baat hi na karo to achha hai.

I don't call you Munafiq because I enjoy calling you by that appellation. It is because your characteristics require me to call you so.

Let me explain......i dont like using analogy, but just have to use them to make my point clear...So be it.
An expert heart surgeon examined a patient and recommended a bypass surgery to avoid an imminent cardiac failure. All the reports and diagnosis were supportive of the doctor's prognosis of the ailment and the doctor undertook great care and insight to perform all necessary pre-operative procedures. The doctor did every operative procedure during the operation with utmost care. The anaethesia was administered professionally, the chest cavity was opened skillfully, the graft artery was added to the blocked package neatly, the loss of blood was kept at minimum. All the procedures were performed elegantly and the operative procedure was successful except that the doctor overlooked the patient's glycemic/sugar level while prescribing post operative medication. The patient suffered internal bleeding and a massive myocardial infartion and died before even being discharged from the hospital. Would you term the operation to be successful?

Moral of the story - "Your total faith in first of Allah & then shia Ismail mustaali tayabbi dawa thats dawoodi bohara" is no good. In the end your enmity and hatred and disrespect and distrust toward the Dai makes you a Munafiq.

Now, coming to trading/saudebaji as you put it. I know how much pain you are experiencing to see your fellow brethren doing so-called trading/saudebaji after performing Niyaaz and salaam and all that. Lekin zara ye batau ki woh niyaaz karnewala aur salaam najwa arz karnewala shakhs mumin baki he aur tum uska dard aur taqleef dekh kar munafiq ho gaye? Kya dard mehsoos karne wala dil paya he janab aapne? Paisa kharch karnewale ka imaan mehfooz he aur aapka kamzor aur naazuk dil uska dard nahi dekh paya aur isliye aap munafiq ho gaye? Aapki misaal to us aadmi ki tarah he jo phut phut kar ro raha he kyunki uske padosi ki beti ki shaadi he. Beti ka baap toh khushi ke aansoo chhalka raha he kyunki uski beti ki shaadi ho gayi aur uska ghar bas gaya, aur padosi is gum mein ro raha he ki baap aur beti juda ho gaye.

BTW, reading your above post makes me wonder, have you ever considered seeking medical opinion for your mental state.

Now, coming to trading/saudebaji as you put it. I know how much pain you are experiencing to see your fellow brethren doing so-called trading/saudebaji after performing Niyaaz and salaam and all that. Lekin zara ye batau ki woh niyaaz karnewala aur salaam najwa arz karnewala shakhs mumin baki he aur tum uska dard aur taqleef dekh kar munafiq ho gaye? Kya dard mehsoos karne wala dil paya he janab aapne? Paisa kharch karnewale ka imaan mehfooz he aur aapka kamzor aur naazuk dil uska dard nahi dekh paya aur isliye aap munafiq ho gaye? Aapki misaal to us aadmi ki tarah he jo phut phut kar ro raha he kyunki uske padosi ki beti ki shaadi he. Beti ka baap toh khushi ke aansoo chhalka raha he kyunki uski beti ki shaadi ho gayi aur uska ghar bas gaya, aur padosi is gum mein ro raha he ki baap aur beti juda ho gaye ".

@ Progticide : Sau (100) baat ki ek baat. Kya aap ko lagta hai Mansoos Saahab is baar Eid ki majlis mein apne sasur ki hotel ka zikr karenge ?
Kya woh bataaenge ke ? Aap ki taar hai badri MAhal main.To jawaab dijiye.
Kisi haseen shaam aur rangeen raaton ka zikr hoga ?

@ progicide
Ok but as per my opinion you are original Munafiq coz for you Allah is second, Dai is first but for me Allah is first & dai is only a guru(master) for me nothing else.So let Allah is better to judge who is munafiq you or me.
Aur baki rahi bat trading ki to thanks for accepting that there is trading for mohurrum waeiz as well as for jaman.To sath sath ye bhi accept karlo ke Ramdan mein namaz padhane ke liye bhi saudabaji hoti hai Ikaram ke naam se .aap bhi jante hi hoge kyunki aap ko bhi shayad isme se commission milta hoga agar aap amil ke ya jade ke karibi chamche hai ya ye ammount fix karane wale agent(dalle) hai.Kyunki aap jeise log har jumat mein hote hi hai her ek mumeen ye janata hai so ye sab dil per mat lena,
Aur ha progicidebhai pain to hota hai yaar koi hamara bhai bewqufi kare to yaar pain to hoga hi na yaar.Socho agar apake dost ya karibi rishtedar ke samane hi koi chor usaki milqat dharam ke naam se loote to apako dukh nahi hoga?Sach bolna hoga ne?Don't worry sab ko hota hai

Khuda aapaki mental status ko fir se achhi kar de amen

proticide the more u try to defend criminals the more u look ugly and pointless....

u are giving an analogy that people are happily contributing salaam and najwa?

no way, I belong to middle class family (atleast at this moment) so I know middle class mentality and there doings, none is contibuting with willingness, they are just doing it by fear of kothar and ex communication and zillat done by local amils.

and btw Imam Ali has taught us to feel sorrow of another human being, if fateh feels pain looking at other bohars miserable condition, what is wrong with it?

actualy this feelings shud be in current leader heart but unfortunately its missing for some reason, wallaho alam.