Wahabi Scholar Defends Wahabism.

[ghulam muhammed]

*The Movement Of Sheikh Muhammad Bin Abdul Wahhab*

by Shaykh Suhayb Hasan 'Abdul Ghaffaar

Prologue
All Praise belongs to Allah Almighty, Creator of the worlds. Peace and salutations be upon the Prophet Muhammad, his family and all his Companions.

The revivalist movement begun by Sheikh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab (1115AH - 1206AH / 1703AD - 1792AD) in the Arabian Peninsula was destined to take root and become widely accepted. It sowed the seeds for a wise leadership which pledged upon itself the implementation of Islamic Shariah in its totality, using the Book of Allah and the Sunnah to enlighten all its activities. It was honoured with victory and success from Allah, the Almighty, and so has remained a potent force since its inception two centuries ago, despite severely hostile attacks on both religious and political levels. The movement exceeded the boundaries of the Arabian Peninsula and bore fruit in a number of other countries in the hands of
many sincere scholars and propagators of Islam who were inspired by its teachings and guided by its example. It was a blessed movement, like a good tree, the root of which is firm, and the branches of which stand tall in the sky.

But like any reformatory movement, it too faced an onslaught of arrows, thrown both at the founder of the movement and at his beliefs and teachings. For a start, it was given the derogatory title of Wahhabism which, although unacceptable to its founder and followers, was nevertheless widely accepted and adopted. Worse still, the State was subjected to strong
criticisms and dreadful slanders in the most vulgar language, which exposed the measure of animosity felt by its opponents. Such critical writings had a great appeal among those fond of innovations and superstitions, but a host of knowledgeable people from various Muslim countries stood up to refute each and every allegation, using convincing proofs and evidences, and fragmenting all the attacks into particles of scattered dust. As most of these writings, whether positive or hostile, are extant in Arabic works, it was felt that there was no need to repeat them here. So the author of
this paper searched for other writings on the subject in English or Urdu, and chose a few of them to mention in this paper. He has endeavoured to refute all the doubts which were raised in the books in question in the light of the writings of Sheikh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab and all the scholars who defended him at home and abroad..

In the confines of this paper it was not possible to cover all the different ramifications of this extensive subject, so the author hopes that readers will accept his apologies for any shortcomings (unintentional as they are) and will pray for him for Allah's guidance and rewards if they benefit from this humble effort.

Indeed Allah is the One Who Guides to the Right Way..

Margoliouth
We begin this discussion with writings from the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics. This work is considered to be among the oldest and most exhaustive reference works to discuss religion in the English language.

William Margoliouth, author of the chapter on 'Wahhabism', writes that Wahhabis differ from Ahl us Sunnah wal Jama'ah in ten areas:

1.They attribute to Allah physical characteristics such as a Face and Hands
2.Reasoning has no place in religious questions, which must be settled solely on tradition
3.Consensus is rejected
4.Analogy is rejected
5.The Imam's of Madhahib have no authority and those who follow them are not Muslims
6.Those who do not join them (the 'Wahhabis' are also not Muslims
7.Neither the Prophet (SAS) nor a saint will be allowed to intercede
8.Visiting the graves is prohibited
9.To take an oath in the name of other than Allah (SWT) is prohibited
10.To offer an vow for other than Allah (SWT) and to slaughter besides the graves in the names of the saints are not allowed

However he acknowledges that there is a doubt concerning the authenticity of point no.5 which has been attributed to Wahhabism, as they are the followers of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, himself one of the four Imams. Morgoliouth ends his article with the observation that Imam Ahmad ash Shaheed (d. 1831) introduced Wahhabism to India following a pilgrimage to Makkah in 1824. What is strange is that an eminent orientalist like W. Morgoliouth finds plenty of quotations from the opponents of Sheikh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab, yet nothing to defend him except for point no. 5.

So let us remedy this by discussing the list and including our refutation where necessary.

1- The belief of Sheikh Ibn Al Wahhab regarding the Attributes of Allah is the same belief of the Salaf, our pious predecessors. They said that Allah Almighty has all the attributes which He has declared for Himself. These include Attributes related to his own self, such as the Face, Hands and Eye, and Attributes of action, such as His Pleasure, Anger, Being on. the Throne and Descending from it. They accept all such descriptions without Takyeeef (asking how they happen), Ta'teel (negating them altogether) or Tashbeeh (anthropomorphic analogy). The basis of this belief is the statement of Allah, 'Nothing is similar unto Him, and He Listens and Sees.' Just as Allah's Attributes do not resemble in any way the attributes of human beings, so His Being does not resemble the being of humans.

2- The criticism that the followers of Sheikh Muhammad ibn al Wahhab have no regard for intellectual reasoning is a total fabrication. What we do say is that reason cannot be independent of revelation. If we take the analogy of the eye and light, we know that the eye needs light to function. This can be natural light from the sun, moon or stars, or artificial light. In
the same way, the human intellect is enlightened by and functions within divine revelation, which makes it trustworthy. If it lacks divine revelation, it will go astray in the darkness of ignorance. Human intellect varies and differs; the reasoning of a thinker will be different from the reasoning of a philosopher; the reasoning of a historian will be different from the reasoning of a mathmetician.

3- They have claimed that the Wahhabis rejected the concept of Ijma' Consensus. This too is untrue. Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal considered the true Ijma' to be that of the Companions. The time of the Companions is a specific period, known for its beginning and end. The Companions witnessed revelation and accepted the message of the Messenger of Allah at first-hand.

Imam Muhammad Abu Zahra said in this issue that Ijma' is of two types: Ijma' on the basic obligatory actions, which is recognised by all. And Ijma' on other rulings of Shariah, such as fighting apostates. A difference of opinion regarding the second type has been attributed to Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal. Some scholars have reported the following from him:

'Any person who claims the existence of Ijma' is a liar.'

Imam Ibn al Qayyim has said, '*The person who claims Ijma' has lied,'* and he did not like giving preference to Ijma' over an authentic Hadith.

Abdullah, son of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, said, *"I heard my father say, 'Whenever a man claims al Ijma', he is a liar. It may have been the case that difference of opinion occurred among the people, but he did not know about it. At the most he should say: We do not know anyone who opposed."*

This statement shows that Imam Ahmad did not deny the principle of Ijma', but denied knowledge of its occurrence after the period of the Sahabah.

4- It is also claimed that Sheikh Muhammad ibn al Wahhab denied Qiyas (analogy). This is incorrect as the Sheikh held the same opinion about this subject as the Hanbali School in general. Imam Abu Zahra said, *'It is reported from Ahmad that one cannot be free of Qiyas as it was adopted by the Sahabah.' *

Once Imam Ahmad had established this principle, the Hanbali school accepted it widely. Qiyas was used whenever a new situation arose for which they could not find a reference from the Hadith or sayings of the Sahabah.

5- The allegation that leaders of other mazahib have no authority and their followers are not Muslims, and that'

6- 'anyone who does not join the Wahhabi movement is a Kafir.

Both the above allegations are clear fabrications. Sheikh Abdullah, son of Sheikh Muhammad ibn al Wahhab, wrote a treatise after he entered Makkah victoriously with Prince Saud bin Abdul Aziz on Saturday 8 th Muharram 1218 AH. In this he wrote, 'Our mazhab in the principle of the deen is the deen of Ahl ul Sunnah wal Jama'ah. Our way is the way of the Salaf, the pious predecessors. Our branch of mazhab is that of Ahmad bin Hanbal, but we do not reject anyone who follows any of the four Imams excluding other mazahib which are not fully regulated.'

He continues,

'Those people who invent lies against us to conceal the truth and deceive the people; they make the people believe we degrade the status of the Prophet (SAS), we teach he has no intercession and visiting him is not recommended; we do not depend on the sayings of the ulama, we declare the people in general to be kafirs, we stop people sending salutations on the Messenger of Allah (SAS), and we. do not recognise the rights of Ahl ul Bayt ' to all these allegations our answer is,

'May Allah be glorified, this is indeed a great lie.'

Therefore anyone who attributes any of these beliefs to us has attributed a lie.

7-The claim that Sheikh ibn al Wahhab believed there is no intercession on the part of a prophet or saint. Our reply is that the author of the article was obviously ignorant of the difference between two types of Shafa'a (intercession). The first contains Shirk, and this was rejected by Sheikh ibn al Wahhab. The second which was approved by him, is the Intercession
performed only with permission from Allah on the Day of Judgement, by a being chosen by Allah for this honour. If the critics of Wahhabism mean by this that the Sheikh has forbidden Al Waseelah through prophets and saints, our reply is that most people do not understand the opinions of both Sheikh ibn al Wahhab and Imam ibn Hanbal on this issue and have levelled false charges against them. Imam ibn Taymiyyah said that Imam Ahmad has been reported in the 'Rituals of Al Marwazi' as to how to achieve Waseelah of the Prophet (SAS) through his du'a. But there are others who did not approve of it. Tawassul achieved through faith in the Prophet (SAS), through love for him, through following him and through obeying him is acceptable to both parties. But Tawassul through the person of the Prophet (SAS) is a contentious issue, and wherever a dispute arises, it should be referred back to Allah and His Messenger.

8- The claim that Wahhabis declare the visiting of the graves and tombs to be haram will be discussed later, alongside the writings of Ignaz Goldziher.

9- They claim that Wahhabis declare haram the taking of oaths with anyone other than Allah. This is indeed true as it is proven by authentic ahadith. Umar bin al Khattab narrated that the Prophet (SAS) said,'Anyone who swears by any other than Allah has committed Shirk.'This is reported by At Tirmidhi who declared it as hadith hasan. It was also declared Sahih by Al Hakim.

Ibn Mas'ud said,

'It is preferable to me to swear by Allah when lying than to swear by other than Allah when speaking the truth.'

10- It is also claimed that Sheikh ibn al Wahhab believes that vows in the name of others than Allah is haram, and that meat slaughtered besides graves in the name of saints is also haram. This is perfectly true, as it is from the deen of Allah, and every Muslim should believe it as long as he believes in Allah and His Messenger. In his great book 'Kitab al Tawhid',
Sheikh ibn al Wahhab includes a chapter under the title, 'No slaughtering should be offered for Allah in a place where slaughtering is offered for beings other than Allah.' His next chapter title is, 'To vow in the name of someone other than Allah is Shirk.' Both chapters contain extensive proofs from the Qur'an and Sunnah to support these statements.

[ghulam muhammed]

Continued.........

Goldziher
We now come to the writings of the German orientalist Ignaz Goldziher in 'Muslim Studies'. This appeared in two volumes in German in 1889 and was translated into English in 1967. The author devoted a long chapter of 96 pages to the subject of 'Veneration of Saints in Islam'. He discusses at great length the excessive attribution of miracles to saints whether living
or dead, by Muslims. He also gives a wealth of examples of sanctifying graves and tombs from Islamic literature and general Muslim practice. His aim is to show that there is no difference between Christians and Muslims in the veneration of saints. Pointing to Qur'anic verses and Hadith which refute such practices, he comments,


'After all this there is no need to explain in detail that within Islam in its original form there was no room for the veneration of saints as it so largely developed later. The Koran itself polemizes directly against the veneration of saints in other confessions which consider their ahbar and ruhban as arbab, divine masters (Sura 9:31)'

He then quotes Karl Hase regarding the saint cult and says,

'That it 'satisfies within a monotheistic religion a polytheistic need to fill the enormous gap between men and their god','

After the author has included numerous examples of veneration of saints by the general Muslim public and the visiting of graves and tombs for praying for one's needs, he also gives examples of scholars who objected to such forms of Shirk. He quotes the impenetrable stance of Imam ibn Taymiyya in the issue of Tawassul and journeying to places other than the three Mosques. He then says,

'This shows that Wahhabism had its forerunners and that it only expressed in a corporate way what was also earlier the inner conviction of old traditional Muslims. From this point of view it would be of great interest for the cultural and religious history of Islam to collect all pre-Wahhabi manifestations of a monotheistic reaction in Islam against pagan survivals which it inherited from paganism or which infiltrated from outside, and to relate these manifestations to the surroundings which gave them rise. Apart from the older manifestations just mentioned it would be possible to list one which can probably be counted the latest: the scene which took place six decades before the beginning of the Wahhabite movement in 1711 in the Mu'ayyad mosque at Cairo. One evening in Ramadan the catechism of Birgewi was being interpreted when a youth ' he is called a Rumi ascended the pulpit and preached passionately against the ever increasing cult of saints and graves, branding this degenerate form of Islamic worship as idolatory. He said,Who has seen the hidden tablet of fate. Not even the prophet himself. All these graves of saints must be destroyed, those who kiss the coffins are infidels, the convents of the Mewlewi and Bektashi must be demolished, the dervishes should study rather than dance. The zealous youth, who interpreted the fatwa issued against him in a derisive manner and who repeated his provocative speeches for several evenings, disappeared mysteriously from Cairo. The ulama do not cease to decorate the graves of their saints and to confirm the people in their disbelief in this complete nonsense.

[Muslim First]

Amazing
No comment from anti Wahhabis!

[ghulam muhammed]

Saudi funding fuels jihadist terror

Large chunks of the country's huge oil earnings have been spent on spreading a violent and intolerant variety of Islam

The ultimate responsibility for recent atrocities like the Boston Marathon bombing and the butchering last week of an off-duty British soldier is very clear.

It belongs to Saudi Arabia.

Over more than two decades, Saudi Arabia has lavished around $100 billion or more on the worldwide promotion of the violent, intolerant and crudely puritanical Wahhabist sect of Islam that the ruling royal family espouses.

The links of the Boston bombers and the London butchers to organizations following the Saudi royal family's religious line are clear.

One of the two London butchers, Nigerian-born Michael Adebolajo, was radicalized by the cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri, who headed the outlawed terrorist group Al-Muhajiroun.

The group follows Wahhabist teachings and advocates unifying all Muslims, forcibly if necessary, under a single fundamentalist theocratic government. Similarly, the Boston bombers, Tamerlan and Dzokhar Tsarnaev, hailed from Russia's southern predominantly Muslim province of Chechnya. Starting in the late 1980s, Saudi Arabia began dispatching Wahhabist clerics and radical preachers to Chechnya.

The spread of Wahhabism sparked not only a separatist war against the Russians, but also a good deal of violence among Muslims.

Wahhabism is now institutionalized in Chechnya and is particularly attractive to young men.

There are similar strands leading back to Wahhabist indoctrination in the histories of very many of the known Muslim terrorists of the last 20 years.

The founder of the sect, Muhammad ibn abd al-Wahhab, was an 18th-century Muslim zealot allied to the Al-Saud clan who promoted an extreme version of Salafism.

Salaf is the Arab word meaning pious ancestor and refers to those who attempt to emulate the pure Islamic life of the Prophet Muhammad and his generation of followers.

But Wahhab and his modern disciples take this notion to extremes. The list of people whom Wahhabists should consider their enemies includes not only Christians, Jews, Hindus and atheists, but also Shiite, Sufi and Sunni Muslims.

And yet no western politicians seem prepared to accept the obvious.

The chances of disaffected young men being drawn into the evil web of Wahhabist murderous extremism would be significantly decreased if the Saudi funding was blocked.

The Saudis began exporting Wahhabism in the early 1970s when the country's oil wealth began growing at an ever-increasing rate.

The amount the Saudi royal family, both by government donations and the generosity of individual princes, now lavishes on Wahhabist schools, colleges, mosques, Islamic centres and the missionary work of fundamentalist imams around the world is extraordinary.

In 2003, a United States Sente committee on terrorism heard testimony that in the previous 20 years Saudi Arabia had spent $87 billion on promoting Wahhabism worldwide.

This included financing 210 Islamic centres, 1,500 mosques, 202 colleges and 2,000 madrassas (religious schools).

Various estimates put the amount the Saudi government spends on these missionary institutions as up to $3 billion a year.

This money smothers the voices of moderate Muslims and the poison flows into every Muslim community worldwide.

Key figures in the September 2001 attacks on the United States were radicalized at mosques in Germany.

Britain is now reckoned by some to be the worst breeding ground anywhere for violent Muslim fundamentalists

Indian newspapers recently reported Saudi Arabia has a massive $35-billion program to build mosques and religious schools across South Asia, where there are major Muslim communities in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and the divided territory of Jammu and Kashmir.

Indian police and Central Intelligence officers were quoted as saying their information came from American intelligence agencies.

There are unconfirmed reports that Saudi Arabia and members of the royal family have donated millions of dollars to fund mosques and Islamic centres in Toronto, Ottawa, Calgary and Quebec.

The money, and the emphasis on Wahhabist teaching that comes with it, has caused sharp divisions among Canadian Muslims.

Over the years, there have been repeated complaints to Saudi Arabia about its funding of radical indoctrination. But while there has been some toning down of the most inflammatory language in the Wahhabist texts the Saudi's disperse, the overall message of the propaganda program has changed little.

Where the Saudi government has retreated under pressure from Washington is in the direct funding of terrorist organizations.

It is widely believed by western intelligence agencies that in the 1980s and '90s, the Saudi government had a deal with Wahhabist terrorist groups like al-Qaida that their fundraising would not be hindered so long as they only operated in foreign countries.

However, after the terrorist attack on a residential compound for foreigners in Riyadh in May 2003, the Saudi government began a crackdown on terrorism.

But even though the Saudi government ended official support for groups like al-Qaida, the Taliban and the Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, private donations from Saudi Arabia still find their way to these and similar groups.

But when all is said and done, curbing direct payments to terrorist groups is a small matter when so many billions of dollars continue to be directed at creating terrorists.

jmanthorpe@vancouversun.com

[shapur]

Ghulam mohdbhai,

I fail to see the wisdom in posting the above article written by jmanthorpe whoever, which is yet another oft-repeated mental masturbation indulged into by the western writers. By posting it are we to believe that you are endorsing its crap contents ?
He writes:
The list of people whom Wahhabists should consider their enemies includes not only Christians, Jews, Hindus and atheists, but also Shiite, Sufi and Sunni Muslims.

And yet no western politicians seem prepared to accept the obvious.

This is a clear attempt to create fitnah amongst Muslims. On the contrary the first 4 sects which he has mentioned still consider the muslims as their enemies and crusaders and leave no stone unturned in articulating their hostility towards them.

He also writes:
In 2003, a United States Sente committee on terrorism heard testimony that in the previous 20 years Saudi Arabia had spent $87 billion on promoting Wahhabism worldwide.

This included financing 210 Islamic centres, 1,500 mosques, 202 colleges and 2,000 madrassas (religious schools).

Various estimates put the amount the Saudi government spends on these missionary institutions as up to $3 billion a year.

This money smothers the voices of moderate Muslims and the poison flows into every Muslim community worldwide.

So according to you building Mosques, colleges and madrassas in the backward and underdeveloped muslim regions an act of evil ? And the islamic education imparted therein "poison" ?? ( nauzobillah). Sir, what about the several lakh christian schools , colleges, propagation centers and missionaries the world over sponsored and run by the vatican and protestant think-centers ? Propagation of christianity is virtuous and legal ??
He further writes :
Indian newspapers recently reported Saudi Arabia has a massive $35-billion program to build mosques and religious schools across South Asia, where there are major Muslim communities in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and the divided territory of Jammu and Kashmir.

A true muslim will say ameen, Alhamdolillah and JazakAllah to that. That theres a persevering group which is taking care of these needs unlike the majority ayaash self-focussed muslim govts like the UAE, Oman, etc.

I say hats off to the Saudi royalty who , inspite of their inbred indulgent leanings owing to their massive wealth, still allocate, concentrate and take care of the islamic holy sites and the needs of the underprivileged muslims globally.

The bottom-line of their philosophy is belief in the worship of God alone which is not an evil thought and one need not agree if they dont wish to,to their other hardline stances but to label them as evil and destructive is outright playing into the hands of the ill-wishers and enemies of Islam. Sorry to say- but your post was very disappointing and the intent, baffling.

[Qutbi-Hero]

A true muslim will say ameen, Alhamdolillah and JazakAllah to that. That theres a persevering group which is taking care of these needs unlike the majority ayaash self-focussed muslim govts like the UAE, Oman, etc.

Are you kidding me? Are you insane? Are you a Sunni?

I say hats off to the Saudi royalty who , inspite of their inbred indulgent leanings owing to their massive wealth, still allocate, concentrate and take care of the islamic holy sites and the needs of the underprivileged muslims globally.

These evil scum have destroyed countless holy sites! They couldn't give damn about any underprivileged Muslims, even those living in their own Kingdom!

The bottom-line of their philosophy is belief in the worship of God alone which is not an evil thought and one need not agree if they dont wish to,to their other hardline stances but to label them as evil and destructive is outright playing into the hands of the ill-wishers and enemies of Islam.

Wahhabis are a rotten cancer that is eating away at our Deen. If they get their way then Islam will be dragged backed to the dark ages, with Shias persecuted in to extinction. Thankfully, Wahabbism will die when the oil runs out. They only have a few decades left now.

Sorry to say- but your post was very disappointing and the intent, baffling.

What exactly was your intent? To support the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt? You must be a Sunni.

[Muslim First]

Are you kidding me? Are you insane? Are you a Sunni?

Did you loose your cool? Getting personal?

Wahhabis are a rotten cancer that is eating away at our Deen.

Our Deen?
Bohra Islam and Mainstream Islam has many differences. You probably do not like when they point out grave worshipping and foot kissing by you.

If they get their way then Islam will be dragged backed to the dark ages,

They do not force wahabi Islam down throat of anybody. You do not have to go to Wahabi mosque or school, but you as Bohra have no choice. You have to bend down and take what ever your Mulla dishes out

with Shias persecuted in to extinction.

NC, time will tell

Thankfully, Wahabbism will die when the oil runs out. They only have a few decades left now.

Wahhabism is strain of Puritan Islam. So how it will die?

BTW I am mainstream Muslim

[Muslim First]

What exactly was your intent? To support the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt? You must be a Sunni.

What makes you think Sunnis are enemies of AB?

[shapur]

A true muslim will say ameen, Alhamdolillah and JazakAllah to that. That theres a persevering group which is taking care of these needs unlike the majority ayaash self-focussed muslim govts like the UAE, Oman, etc.

Are you kidding me? Are you insane? Are you a Sunni?

I say hats off to the Saudi royalty who , inspite of their inbred indulgent leanings owing to their massive wealth, still allocate, concentrate and take care of the islamic holy sites and the needs of the underprivileged muslims globally.

These evil scum have destroyed countless holy sites! They couldn't give damn about any underprivileged Muslims, even those living in their own Kingdom!

The bottom-line of their philosophy is belief in the worship of God alone which is not an evil thought and one need not agree if they dont wish to,to their other hardline stances but to label them as evil and destructive is outright playing into the hands of the ill-wishers and enemies of Islam.

Wahhabis are a rotten cancer that is eating away at our Deen. If they get their way then Islam will be dragged backed to the dark ages, with Shias persecuted in to extinction. Thankfully, Wahabbism will die when the oil runs out. They only have a few decades left now.

Sorry to say- but your post was very disappointing and the intent, baffling.

What exactly was your intent? To support the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt? You must be a Sunni.

Apart from "sunni","salafi", "wahabbi","hanaffi","shafi","humbali", "shia", "khoja", bla bla, theres another word too if you have ever heard it- its called "muslim", one who believes in "islam" or in other words- "surrender" to the will of God. One who believes in the obedience and worship of God and works righteousness to please God. This is the simple message of God which he sent through His various messengers to man and whosoever has accepted and followed it will have the rewards as mentioned in sura 5:69 " Those who believe(in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish(scriptures) and the christians and the sabians, ANY WHO BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND THE LAST DAY AND WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS, shall have their reward with their lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve".
So boss, far from what you believe, not only Muslims but anyone who believes in the message of God sent through His various messengers will be rewarded. Also refer Sura 3:199 and Sura 21,ayats 92 and 93 for a similar assertion by God.

Every prophet's mission was faced with some difficulty caused by their adversaries either in their lifetime or after their death.
Adam's own sons quarelled and khabil killed habil. We are not to sit in judgement over this unfortunate event and bring it to bear on our faith in the message as given by Adam , because Allah will judge and decide.

Similarly, Noah faced disobedience from his own kin- leave it to Allah to address it as He deems fit.

Moses's mission was besieged by the nastiness of the Pharoah who finally accepted faith in his dying moments- We should leave it to Allah to decide his fate in the hereafter.

Jesus's mission was thwarted after his death by his disciples who deified and started worshipping him instead of the God he preached about. Their affair will rest with Allah on the day of judgement and we should concentrate on the essence of Jesus's message instead.

Lastly, Mohammad's wish and decree was bitterly betrayed and given a go-by by his own companions and history had to take a different turn- but who better than Allah to judge and decide the fate of the wrong-doers of that time. Why should we bring it to bear on the practice, faith and the worship of God as conveyed and taught by Mohammed and create divisions.

In sura 30, ayats 31,32 Allah warns " Turn ye in repentance to Him and fear Him; establish regular prayer and be not among those who join gods with Allah", " those who split up their religion and become mere sects each party rejoicing in that which is with itself" . And also in sura 6, ayat 159 " As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them of all that they did"
Its clear that Allah expects unity of not only mohammad's followers but of the correct believers of all the prophets which he terms as Ummah.
As shias and DBs while we pride in and cherish our acknowledgement and recognition in the imamat of the continued lineage of Mohammad and their appointees till our present dai, let us not lose sight of the larger picture and the ultimate goal and message of God by spewing and living in hatred of our co-believers.

[Qutbi-Hero]

Are you kidding me? Are you insane? Are you a Sunni?

Did you loose your cool? Getting personal?

They were questions - what are your answers?

Wahhabis are a rotten cancer that is eating away at our Deen.

Our Deen?
Bohra Islam and Mainstream Islam has many differences. You probably do not like when they point out grave worshipping and foot kissing by you.

I don't worship graves nor have I ever kissed anyones feet, although I suppose if I wanted to, it would be the feet of my Mother.

If they get their way then Islam will be dragged backed to the dark ages,

They do not force wahabi Islam down throat of anybody. You do not have to go to Wahabi mosque or school, but you as Bohra have no choice. You have to bend down and take what ever your Mulla dishes out

Billions of Petro-Dollars are forcing Wahhabism down the throats of the gullible and making them cruel and violent. See what is happening around the world for clear evidence.

with Shias persecuted in to extinction.

NC, time will tell

You are another Non-Shia on here?

Thankfully, Wahabbism will die when the oil runs out. They only have a few decades left now.

Wahhabism is strain of Puritan Islam. So how it will die?

It is misguided and deviant Islam. It will die out like so many of the other misguided and deviant sects of the past.
What in your opinion made Wahhabism rise? What has propelled it to the world stage? What future do you think Saudi Arabia has once their main export is depleted?

BTW I am mainstream Muslim

Is that code for Sunni? Why did you join this forum I wonder...

[Muslim First]

You are another Non-Shia on here?

Why is this Shia Bohra site only?

[Muslim First]

Is that code for Sunni? Why did you join this forum I wonder.

Majority of Muslims even in Prophets time and after his death followed Quran and Sunna of The Prophet. Shiasm was invented much later. Therefore I prefer mainstream Muslim over Sunni Muslim. Most of Muslim except Khoja Ismailis follow Sunna with some differences.

For passing time, increasing my knowledge of Quran and Ahadith. Makes me study. You do not join you participate in discussion if you wish but never get personal.

Wasalaam

[Muslim First]

Billions of Petro-Dollars are forcing Wahhabism down the throats of the gullible and making them cruel and violent. See what is happening around the world for clear evidence.

Can you describe Wahabism as you understand. Do they have horns? Have they tried to force their brand of Islam down your throat? Have ever seen them in your Jamatkhana preaching their ideology? Have they tried to convert Bohri kids. So why such vile reaction?

[Muslim First]

It is misguided and deviant Islam

And what is Ismaili Bohrism?

They pray 5 times and try to immolate Prophets Namaaz is that deviant?
They argue against grave and saint worshipping, is that deviant?
They strongly believe in Tauhid, is that deviant?
They tolerate secrete deviation of Hujj rituals by Bohras, is that deviant?

[Muslim First]

I don't worship graves nor have I ever kissed anyones feet,

That would be against the norm of your version of Islam. No ziarats, no Kadam Bosi, you must be bad boy!!!

[Qutbi-Hero]

You are another Non-Shia on here?

Why is this Shia Bohra site only?

It is called Progressive Dawoodi Bohras for a reason, don't you think?

Is that code for Sunni? Why did you join this forum I wonder.

Majority of Muslims even in Prophets time and after his death followed Quran and Sunna of The Prophet. Shiasm was invented much later. Therefore I prefer mainstream Muslim over Sunni Muslim. Most of Muslim except Khoja Ismailis follow Sunna with some differences.

The Shia were 'invented' as soon as Bakr disobeyed RasulAllah and decided he was the successor.

For passing time, increasing my knowledge of Quran and Ahadith. Makes me study.

You can go to Sunni forums for that can't you?

You do not join you participate in discussion if you wish but never get personal.

How can a Sunni 'participate' in Shia discussion? You do not subscribe to our beliefs so will only end up arguing and feeling people are getting too personal when they disagree with you.

Can you describe Wahabism as you understand. Do they have horns? Have they tried to force their brand of Islam down your throat? Have ever seen them in your Jamatkhana preaching their ideology? Have they tried to convert Bohri kids. So why such vile reaction?

If Wahhabis are so great, why don't you join their sect and their forums instead of 'passing time' here?

[Qutbi-Hero]

I don't worship graves nor have I ever kissed anyones feet,

That would be against the norm of your version of Islam. No ziarats, no Kadam Bosi, you must be bad boy!!!

That is why I am a 'Progressive' lol. But still very much a Shia.

[Muslim First]

It is called Progressive Dawoodi Bohras for a reason, don't you think?

And this forum is Islam today

[Muslim First]

The Shia were 'invented' as soon as Bakr disobeyed RasulAllah and decided he was the successor.

That is as brother Anajmi would say a "fairy tale"

[Muslim First]

If Wahhabis are so great, why don't you join their sect and their forums instead of 'passing time' here?

I am Muslim, why I need Sunni, Shia, Ismaili, Wahabi etc. etc lable!!!

[Muslim First]

How can a Sunni 'participate' in Shia discussion?

So you are not aware of Shia Sunni discussions on Shia and Sunni web sites!!!
You tell your version and read response from other side. Is it not way to exchange information?

[Qutbi-Hero]

The Shia were 'invented' as soon as Bakr disobeyed RasulAllah and decided he was the successor.

That is as brother Anajmi would say a "fairy tale"

Which is why you don't belong here.

If Wahhabis are so great, why don't you join their sect and their forums instead of 'passing time' here?

I am Muslim, why I need Sunni, Shia, Ismaili, Wahabi etc. etc lable!!!

Because certain people had a habit of murdering the descendants of the Prophet and corrupting the religion of Allah.

How can a Sunni 'participate' in Shia discussion?

So you are not aware of Shia Sunni discussions on Shia and Sunni web sites!!!
You tell your version and read response from other side. Is it not way to exchange information?

So you are here to exchange Sunni information with us Shia? To tell us your 'version' of Islamic history?
Did any Shia here ask for this generous offer of yours?
Do you expect me to join you in your love of Wahhabism?

[Muslim First]

Which is why you don't belong here.

screw

[Muslim First]

Because certain people had a habit of murdering the descendants of the Prophet and corrupting the religion of Allah.

Another fairy tale

[Muslim First]

I think we had enough exchange. Thanks brother

[Qutbi-Hero]

Because certain people had a habit of murdering the descendants of the Prophet and corrupting the religion of Allah.

Another fairy tale

You're right, the likes of Muawiya and Yazeed never existed. It's all made up stories.

I think we had enough exchange.

Hopefully it's the first time and the last time. Goodbye Sunni.

[ghulam muhammed]

S. Arabia will send imams to Pakistan

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia would send imams, one each from Masjidul Haram in Makkah and Masjid-i-Nabawi in Madina, to Pakistan every year.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1031646/s-arab ... o-pakistan

[ghulam muhammed]

Readers comments on the above mentioned article is worth reading !!

[ghulam muhammed]

Found on the internet :-

Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) appointed a woman sahabiya Hazrat Umme Waraqah to lead the prayers in the mosque of a locality in Madinah around the period of Badar Battle i.e. 2AH and she led the prayers of a mixed gender congregation in the same mosque for close to 17 years i.e., till the end of Hazrat Umar's period. Which means even Hazrat Umar did not discontinue her. Her muezzin was a man. This reference is found in "Khutbat e Bahawalpur" by Dr. Muhammad Hamidullah, Islamic Book Foundation, Suiwalan, New Delhi, page 49. The same has been translated in English as "The Emergence of Islam: Bahawalpur Lecture on the Development of Islamic Worldview, Intellectual
Tradition and Policty" by Afzal Iqbal and published by Adam Publishers and Distributors, New Delhi. In English version it is on page 35.

Prof. Ahmed Souaiaia, writing in his book Contesting Justice: Women, Islam, Law and Society, (New York University Press) says that funeral prayer of Hazrat Imam Shafii was led by a woman known as Nafeesah. It is said the practice was common in the first two centuries after the Prophet. Ahmad Ali al-Maqrizi in al-Khutat al-maqrizziyyah.

Many such things have been pushed into obscurity by the madrassa clerics in the sub continent and elsewhere. If these facts are conveyed to people then these clerics would be out of business.

[anajmi]

This is the hadith from Abu Dawud.

Narrated Umm Waraqah daughter of Nawfal:

When the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) proceeded for the Battle of Badr, I said to him: Apostle of Allah allow me to accompany you in the battle. I shall act as a nurse for patients. It is possible that Allah might bestow martyrdom upon me. He said: Stay at your home. Allah, the Almighty , will bestow martyrdom upon you.
The narrator said: Hence she was called martyr. She read the Qur'an. She sought permission from the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) to have a mu'adhdhin in her house. He, therefore, permitted her (to do so).
She announced that her slave and slave-girl would be free after her death. One night they went to her and strangled her with a sheet of cloth until she died, and they ran away.
Next day Umar announced among the people, "Anyone who has knowledge about them, or has seen them, should bring them (to him)."
Umar (after their arrest) ordered (to crucify them) and they were crucified. This was the first crucifixion at Medina.

No mention of leading prayers. People should refrain from putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 7 and a 1/2. If Dr. Muhammad Hamidullah hears about a man delivering a baby, he will probably assume that the man was pregnant too!!