Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

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Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby JC on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:32 am

To all readers from Non-Dawoodi Divisions (including Progressives and Udiapuris):
To my Alavi, Sulemani and upcoming Qutbi bohra friends and bros:

Consider merging all three divisions into one, this will help you stand against corrupt dawoodi mafia and may be you will attract people from dawoodi division. Evaluations of all three divisions have to be made and merger should not be very difficult. Imagine having Saifee Mahal as HQ in Mumbai!! against one of dawoodis!!

Basic thing: All three dais should continue however they should do 'Nass' on one person agreed upon by all the parties. I know this will not be easy, but based on evaluation and market share (there are many business modules available) all can agree on one person, and after that all three current dais should retire (or say resign) and handover the affairs to new Dai. Assume Khozema's son has to become Dai then the slots of Mazoon and Mukasir should be given to other two divisions. This new merged division may attract people from Progressive branch if they see transparency and a fair way to deal with people and community (should be run fairly as a corporatre). This may attract brothers and sisters from Udaipur who currently seemed to be struggling against dawoodi mafia.

Once the new Dai takes over, the issue to 'legitimacy' and 'righteousness' will be automatically solved. The new Dai will be continuation from the point from where divisions occured and all Dais of all divisions should be given respect deserved. People of all three divisions will be contended as their respective Dai would have done 'Nass-e-Jali' so no issues there. This will give more power in regards to Properties of Bohra community.

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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:52 pm

JC wrote:
Basic thing: All three dais should continue however they should do 'Nass' on one person agreed upon by all the parties.


i am more in favour of doing NASS-BANDI on all the male members of the so-called 'royal' family.

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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:04 pm

That hints too much at a democratic system. Won't work in religion.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Bohra spring on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:08 pm

JC why would the others Merge...they do not have rampant corruption as ours. Secondly everyone thinks they are the right choice and they have not seen the need to overthrow their clergy as we do. There is now a major difference in the ideologies between the Bohras too.

We have to solve our problems. The future of Bohra does not need a Diai as it is believed currently. The better option is to get rid of ours and do away with accumulated power within the role of the Diai...over time it has been quite evident is open to abuse, also the Diai is not backed by reliable facts that there is devininty in the the position, even though he may claim and people have pschologically accepted it.

Yes it may be in our scriptures that Dias lineage existed, but over time there has been significant distortion and to seek an authetic decendent of the Imam or identify who should have been the selected Diai is impossible.

Based on the current crowd of Jamia scholars who are output of a distorted knowledge culture over 50 years I would not trust any and is also not credible crowd of scholars. I cannot see where else we would be able to source Islamic scholars from within that will be acceptable to the majority.

In Yemen and over the Fatimid history people who shared our faith have imported scholars from outside or dissolved the spriritual need for the Ismaili religios traditions as is and rejoin the wider Islamic groups such as Shia or Sunni. We could revert to Shia Bohras or Muslim Bohras and follow the mainstream Sunni or Shia beliefs and retain Bohra as a cultural identity. The third option is for Bohras who really need a Diai to complete their faith can join the other Bohras.

We need credible scholars
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:20 pm

Credible scholars? Have has there ever been a "credible" scholar? The only credible source you have is the Quran. All the hadiths which are compiled by people years after the prophet's death? How certain can you be of the credibility of those documents?
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby badrijanab on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:27 pm

Nietzsche wrote:Credible scholars? Have has there ever been a "credible" scholar? The only credible source you have is the Quran. All the hadiths which are compiled by people years after the prophet's death? How certain can you be of the credibility of those documents?


Who will answer to those questions whose answers are directly not in Quran?

It is foolish to say that Quran is enouogh! Quran do not tell how to pray salat? Who will reply to this question? Of course a right and trustworthy scholar i.e. Ahle Bayt and their progeny of Fatimi Imam's.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:35 pm

Is the Quran what Islam is based on or is it not?
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The hadiths of rasulallah were recorded by other authors. I am not necessarily suggesting that they are all fabricated, however, I'm sure you've noticed that people will doubtlessly believe (fabricated, fake) hadiths-- which have no credible source linked to them, besides a corrupt religious leadership. Some of the topics you've discussed in other blogs here discuss those hadiths or other stories.
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Merger of 3000 sects of Non-Dawoodi

Unread postby badrijanab on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:45 pm

Joota Chappal (JC),

There are thousands of sects and sub-sub-sub sects in Sunni's. Why don't you bring your house in order before ordering others?!

I understand there are so much conflicting differences among all thousnads of sects in Sunni's that they will never agree to each other even if they shun many of the differences! You also have to cope with followers of your caste who have turned terrorists! JISKI LAATHI USKI BHENS. JISKE PASS GUN, THAT SECT WON. So, vote for some terrorist head as your next Khaleefa - a united morcha of all sub-sects of your caste!
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby badrijanab on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:48 pm

Nietzsche wrote:Is the Quran what Islam is based on or is it not?
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The hadiths of rasulallah were recorded by other authors. I am not necessarily suggesting that they are all fabricated, however, I'm sure you've noticed that people will doubtlessly believe (fabricated, fake) hadiths-- which have no credible source linked to them, besides a corrupt religious leadership. Some of the topics you've discussed in other blogs here discuss those hadiths or other stories.


Let's take one step at a time. Which Hadees or who quoted hadees is second step. First step: Is Quran sufficient or does one need supplementary to Quran i.e. rightfully appointed teachers to teach the message of Quran and how to perform commands of Quran?
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby anajmi on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:16 pm

Actually, after the Quran comes Oxford and Webster. If a person can answer exotic words from Oxford and Webster, then we can assume that he is rightfully appointed. So in short, what you cannot get from the Quran, you should get from Oxford and Webster as even the rightfully appointed one needs to answer from Oxford and Webster.

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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:37 pm

I'm assuming that you're being sarcastic.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Safiuddin on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:51 pm

Why is it that any of you NEED a religious authority to define morality, integrity, and
ethics? Are you so unintelligent and unwilling to think for yourselves that you need
some pompous God on Earth to tell you how to behave?

Oh, wait. Yes, you are. You've already demonstrated that.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Rising Star on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:03 pm

we dont need any leader now.....

let ALLAH,MUHAMMED and QURAAN lead us.....
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:17 am

Do I? Note my username.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby badrijanab on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:18 am

Rising Star wrote:we dont need any leader now.....

let ALLAH,MUHAMMED and QURAAN lead us.....


Allah created "Ameer" among all classes -
[*] Friday is Ameer among all days of week
[*] Ramzaan is Ameer among all month of an year
[*] Bull is Ameer among all 'chopayas'
[*] 'Sher' is Ameer among all 'Darinda's'
[*] Eagle is Ameer among all birds
etc

"Ameeriyat" is ubiquitous. Islam has never run ever without an "Ameer". So sole Quran and Sunnat will not work, there have to be a leader always.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby anajmi on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:57 am

[*] 'Sher' is Ameer among all 'Darinda's'


When we refer to this 'Sher" are we referring to a 'Sher' that is living? Does this 'Sher' have to be alive to be called Ameer amongst all 'Darinda's'?

Can a 'Sher' that is hiding and reading Oxford and Webster also be called an Ameer? How about a 'Sher' that is a coward?
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby abde53 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:06 pm

badrijanab wrote:
Rising Star wrote:we dont need any leader now.....

let ALLAH,MUHAMMED and QURAAN lead us.....


Allah created "Ameer" among all classes -
[*] Friday is Ameer among all days of week
[*] Ramzaan is Ameer among all month of an year
[*] Bull is Ameer among all 'chopayas'
[*] 'Sher' is Ameer among all 'Darinda's'
[*] Eagle is Ameer among all birds
etc

"Ameeriyat" is ubiquitous. Islam has never run ever without an "Ameer". So sole Quran and Sunnat will not work, there have to be a leader always.

and Bardrijanab bhai is created an Ameer of some of the progressive IDIOTS
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Bori85 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:57 pm

abde53 wrote:
badrijanab wrote:
Rising Star wrote:we dont need any leader now.....

let ALLAH,MUHAMMED and QURAAN lead us.....


Allah created "Ameer" among all classes -
[*] Friday is Ameer among all days of week
[*] Ramzaan is Ameer among all month of an year
[*] Bull is Ameer among all 'chopayas'
[*] 'Sher' is Ameer among all 'Darinda's'
[*] Eagle is Ameer among all birds
etc

"Ameeriyat" is ubiquitous. Islam has never run ever without an "Ameer". So sole Quran and Sunnat will not work, there have to be a leader always.

and Bardrijanab bhai is created an Ameer of some of the progressive IDIOTS


@Mr.abde53
And foolish DB community has created "Ameer" amongst all the Chor's of this world, Qasre Aali/ Kothar. They are a different class of Ameer , "Chori uperse Sinajori"
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:47 pm

badrijanab wrote:[*] 'Sher' is Ameer among all 'Darinda's'


so if sher is an 'ameer' darinda, what about the person who does shikar of this ameer darinda and murders it? is he a bigger 'darinda'??

in that case, saifee mahal is bursting at the seams with 'khooni darindas'... blood dripping from their mouths, torn flesh hanging from their sharp teeth.... !!!!

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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:43 pm

This is, really, a fascist system. Dictator rules with an iron fist, propaganda consumes the minds of the people. And the people, the people are not worth a thing. They either are beneficial entities toward the "country" or they are removed, deemed unworthy. Only, the people in previous fascist countries were somewhat well off economically, whereas here, most people are impoverished.
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Does this metaphor appeal to any of you or is it too harsh?

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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:29 pm

Nietzsche wrote:Does this metaphor appeal to any of you or is it too harsh?


honestly, your metaphor lacks appeal as it is irrelevant in the present bohra context.

i assume, with the id that you have chosen, that you would like to philosophise on the situation in which our community finds itself and the relative positions of the govt v/s the governed, or the tyrants v/s the oppressed and exploited.

the bottom line is, that as a 'subject' of the 'ruling class'. you are not permitted to speculate on your station or indulge in analytical philosophy. the moment it is perceived that you have the mental ability to reflect and analyse and start quoting from philosophers and psycho-analysts, then you are unwelcome, as you no longer fit the profile of an ideal 'subject' and thus ungovernable. either you have to be wise enough to voluntarily remove yourself from this subservient situation or you will be eventually forcibly chucked out. intelligent discourse or logical thought are construed as dissent and open rebellion in the bohra cult.

imagine socrates, aristotle, plato, freud, nietzsche, bertrand russell, stephen hawking et al being loyal abde syednas. does that sound apocryphal or what?

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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:30 am

I guess they'll have to 'remove' me then... More of the mainstream bohras need to stand up to some of the oppressive figures, or nothing will be done. It's tough for most people to simply challenge what they have held a strong belief in for so long.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Bohra spring on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:58 am

Nietzsche ...you need to create uprising in your locality..before going global..What is our location

This site is rich in what resistance and pdb fighters have done small issues for kothar in their own towns and cities..

But you have to give kothar credit they have acted as parasites where they do not kill the host..in other words they have intelligently caused pain by asking for money and mind control but not outright abuse, and not enough to hate them and hence avoid uprising.

I hope you met intellectual poverty and not monetary ? Many bohras as percentage of general society are middle class and higher compared to another minority group. Kothar know they gain most by ensuring the slaves are rich!

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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:13 am

Bohra spring wrote:But you have to give kothar credit they have acted as parasites where they do not kill the host..in other words they have intelligently caused pain by asking for money and mind control but not outright abuse, and not enough to hate them and hence avoid uprising.


very well put, brother bohra spring!
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Nietzsche on Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:42 pm

Concerning the metaphor I made, it's pointed out on this very site (http://dawoodi-bohras.com/about_us/introduction/) that the system, "at worst" represents fascism.
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Re: Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:12 pm

Nietzsche wrote:Concerning the metaphor I made, it's pointed out on this very site (http://dawoodi-bohras.com/about_us/introduction/) that the system, "at worst" represents fascism.


nietzsche,

you have proved your point. so now what? do you think the saifee mahal mafia care about it? are they going to tremble with fear and pee in their hijaars or grant you mafsuhiyat?

sorry, i am not throwing cold water on your philosophy, just giving you a dose of reality.
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Merger of 3 Non-Dawoodi Divisions

Unread postby Starwars on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:44 am

you have proved your point. so now what? do you think the saifee mahal mafia care about it? are they going to tremble with fear and pee in their hijaars or grant you mafsuhiyat?

sorry, i am not throwing cold water on your philosophy, just giving you a dose of reality.


My sentiments entirely. The Kothar's ruler is an anarchist. Their motto must be: 'If you cant put up shut up or shove off.
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