Qutbi Bohras

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:58 pm

It is not day dreaming. It is truth unfolding. Just have patience and keep a close watch.
voice
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:24 pm

voice wrote:It is not day dreaming. It is truth unfolding. Just have patience and keep a close watch.


i am not holding my breath in anticipation...
Al Zulfiqar
 
Posts: 4499
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Location: saifee mahal

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Truly Believe on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:42 pm

Voice

What a great story teller and rumour monger you are , results of a wild , idle and frivolous imagination I would believe .Where do you get all this information from, being what you guys believe to be from the Mazoon Moula's camp , let me clarify, there is no such thing as Qutbi Bohras we are all Dawoodi Bohras under the leadership of our beloved Aqa Moula . Mazoon Moula will never ever do anything which would benefit the dawaat dushmans and go against Aqa Moula . so you progressives can dream on but the division is not going to happen . Mazoon Moula has already given up all his legitimate rights to every thing and is now dedicated to doing all he can to better the lives of momineens every where , we who are ardent supporters of Mazoon Moula are with him in this azeem task and will never ever do anything to divide our community
Let me put to rest all these allegations that Mazoon Moula has taken over Saifee Mahal etc( the fact is that he himself has moved out of Saifee Mahal and is living most of the time in the US,) people are being bribed to join him? (LOL) if at all people follow him it is because of his immense ilm his mission to serve our community and not any lure of money or power,
There are efforts both from within and outside our community to malign him and his family . but Inshallah the community will know the truth soon.
I may never be a part of this forum again but was forced to write to dispel any misconceptions people who visit this forum many nurture
Long Live Aqa Moulaa(TUS) and His Mazoon Syedi Khuzema Bhaisaheb Qutbuddin(TUS)
Truly Believe
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:52 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:20 pm

TB,

welcome to the forum. we appreciate your contribution. from your approach it seems that you are a staunch believer and someone from the vazarat but are here inspite of mola's farmaans. if that is a sign of rebelliousness, we admire your defiance. keep it up!

btw, before you start getting all hyper and gnashing your teeth, please read below what i have posted in response to voice just 2 posts earlier:

"voice, stop daydreaming and don't get your hopes up at all. at the end of the day they are all thieves and rascals and they know that there is no benefit in killing the goose which lays the golden eggs by splitting it or eliminating each other.

the reformists have no interest in getting into mazoon's camp or any other camp. that is not part of their agenda, their demands are clearly spelt out at the top of the forum page. let anyone be the dai, but only as long as he follows the original rules of our deen as was the practice up until the 50th dai.

will it matter to you who is the dai if your taxes keep going up, they keep inventing new ones and you are still being screwed 'royally'? "
Al Zulfiqar
 
Posts: 4499
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Location: saifee mahal

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby humanbeing on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:21 pm

Truly Believe wrote:Mazoon Moula has already given up all his legitimate rights to every thing and is now dedicated to doing all he can to better the lives of momineens every where

Why would Mazoon Maula give up all his legitimate rights ? and what includes everything ?
Truly Believe wrote: ( the fact is that he himself has moved out of Saifee Mahal and is living most of the time in the US,)

Majority of bohra populace is in south asia or middle east, why would mazooon maula choose a far distant lands with rich minority bohra population?

Services of Mazoon are more required in India, Pakistan or other ssouth asian countries, be in in education or philanthropy !
Truly Believe wrote:There are efforts both from within and outside our community to malign him and his family . but Inshallah the community will know the truth soon.

Efforts to Malign Mazoon from within ?? Ahha Interesting … Care to explain.

3 Likes: Al ZulfiqarFatehJC

humanbeing
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby JC on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:30 pm

I can understand what Bro AZ is trying to say. But my point is we should do whatever we could to ensure division occurs, it is like one of the many Reform things we are trying to do. We have to use whatever resources available to help bring Zaadas End near to its logical and inevitable death.
JC
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby JC on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:32 pm

TB, Wake Up!! You are not sitting in a bohra masdir.
JC
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:36 pm

My heartiest welcome to TB and thanks for shedding light on this ongoing power struggle.

Well I can understand the reason of your clarification and as I had said earlier that in the present scenario, Mazoon saheb`s camp has no option but to adopt policy of wait and watch, utilize the time, preparing strategies etc . So shifting gears is also a part of crisis management.

For all those who can read and understand truth between the lines, brother Humanbeing has already sorted and raised questions on many important points. I would just like to add that not even for once you (TB) have mentioned the name of Mansoos. Why???

I agree to this point of yours,
"Inshallah the community will know the truth soon"
. Indeed Allah is best of planners and we all are waiting for the same.

As you have mentioned.
people follow him it is because of his immense ilm his mission to serve our community and not any lure of money or power

My sincere advice to your camp is that please implement your knowledge, stick to the truth, seek help from Allah, try to show light to all those who are in darkness with all the resources bestowed to you by Allah. Instead of Duniya seek Aakhira, I guarantee your camp that you`ll succeed, in-sha-Allah.
voice
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Bohra spring on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:10 am

TB..can you help shade more light..

Mazoom has given up his rights ? What right ? To be the next Diai ?

He want to do good for betterment of the mumineen...what is that ? What about fighting for the freedom and rights of the mumineen ?

Does Mazoom accept that Mufadal is the Mansoos and will he accept him as the 53rd Diai should the time come ?

Mazoom is not young has anyone considered if that will be an issue
Bohra spring
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:37 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby asad on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:00 am

fellow members please do not be swayed by "Truly believe". In all probability he is from Mansoos camp and has posted this to kill the chances of Mazoon to the seat of Daiship. please mark his use of words how he has subtly announced that Mazoon is no more in race and not occupying Saifee mahal rather cooling his heels in US.
asad
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby asad on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:15 am

Mazoon Sahab's bday was on 29th Rabi Ul Akhar. Does any Jamaat, Shiate Ali Mumbai celebrated it as they do for sons of SMB.

Does any kothari PR sites mention it. NO.

Time to move on Mazoon sahab, no one gives a shit about you any more.
asad
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Aymelek on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:40 am

asad wrote:Mazoon Sahab's bday was on 29th Rabi Ul Akhar. Does any Jamaat, Shiate Ali Mumbai celebrated it as they do for sons of SMB. Does any kothari PR sites mention it. NO.


Br. Asad,

Just a correction...

Mazoon's sahebs waras is next week on Monday (29th Rabi Ul Akhar - 11 March 2013). Today is only 25th Rabi ul AKhar. Anyways, like past there will be a subtle mention of his waras / milad on few websites such as malumaat or zeninfo in the section Akhbaar Sadaat Kiram.
Aymelek
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby asad on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:09 am

Aymelek wrote:
asad wrote:Mazoon Sahab's bday was on 29th Rabi Ul Akhar. Does any Jamaat, Shiate Ali Mumbai celebrated it as they do for sons of SMB. Does any kothari PR sites mention it. NO.


Br. Asad,

Just a correction...

Mazoon's sahebs waras is next week on Monday (29th Rabi Ul Akhar - 11 March 2013). Today is only 25th Rabi ul AKhar. Anyways, like past there will be a subtle mention of his waras / milad on few websites such as malumaat or zeninfo in the section Akhbaar Sadaat Kiram.


Br. Aymelek,

My bad. Thanks for the correction. Lets hope Kothar pays more attention this time after the post.
asad
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:54 am

Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Starwars on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:42 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
shabbir4u wrote: Hence as a devoted abde it is your duty to honour and love the people in key posts who are duly appointed by your Dai.


Love? One cannot 'love' someone with whom you have not spent a lifetime. One can love one's own family members with whom you have strong ties but not outsiders - absolutely not. This is such shallow thinking from an adult. In my opinion, one CANNOT 'honour and love' and 'be a devoted abde' towards an avaricious leader(s) in a community or a country? They do not deserve to be endeared or revered.

2 Likes: ConscíousSAJJAD

Starwars
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:29 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby zinger on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:43 am

Starwars... do not equate this love of ours for our Dai as the love that is manifested in a relationship.

This love is based more on the feelings that one has of respect for a man one considers as the father of the community

It is probably easy for you to forget who our Dai is or perhaps was, once upon a time for you, and to hate him, but remember and realise this, a lot of us have begun to see the truth only now. it is not easy for us to overnight forget what love we had for our Dai and suddenly begin to 'hate' him just because our eyes have been opened.

one day, if you realise that your father has made his money by smuggling and looting, you will not suddenly start to hate him. your love and respect might diminish, but it will not turn to hate.

as to who deserves to be enderared and reveared... well lets just say that we arent all as 'evolved' as you, and perhaps, because of that, we arent as angry and full of hate as you are. so, while you continue to hate our Dai, we will continue to love him.... yes with his flaws... call us fools if you want to, but fact remains, our love cannot overnight turn to hate
zinger
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby JC on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:45 pm

Zinger, bohras are not taught to 'love' Dai ........ but brainwashed to 'worship' Dai ...... so it is different. One loves his or her father even though father may have limitations and may have sinned ........ bohra philosophy is that Dai has NO limitations and cannot sin ........ he has to be worshipped or not. We have decided NOT to worship him and place him where he belongs and judge him on his deeds which has resulted in us 'hating' him ...... we NEVER loved him in the first place, so your analogy is wrong. In bohraism Dai Father is not like any other father.

Idols, in whatever shape or form, are either 'worshipped' or 'destroyed'. We are followers of Mohammad and Ali who broke and destroyed idols, which existed in hundreds of forms.
JC
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby zinger on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:57 pm

JC, all i can say is that you have been hanging out with the wrong kind of Bohras then. the extremist variety.

yes, we do look up to him with adoration, but we do not, i repeat, we do not worship him.

Strangely enough, this whole "we worship the Dai" bit is somehow manifested only this forum, which is quite strange... and mischievous i must say.

Yes the Bohra philosophy that the Dai is infallible has taken a severe beating, we agree. the flaws have shown up, but you will only find the more open, moderate yet abde Bohras admit it. so dont make this out to be the POV of the community

you can chose to love him or hate him, thats your prerogative. and yes, parading the Dai around, kissing his takhat, kissing his photo, i agree might seem like idol worship to a lot, but our intentions are clear. we do not worship our Dai, we love him and yes, the love manifests itself in ways that might seem different to others

we am not your typical abdes. although we love our Dai, we always seethed from the inside on the high-handedness of the poeple underneath. this site atleast gave us a forum to express an opinion and find others, like-minded. but we will not tolerate abuse on our Dai. we chose to see him as our father, you may see it differently
zinger
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Conscíous on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:47 pm

zinger wrote:and yes, parading the Dai around, kissing his takhat, kissing his photo, i agree might seem like idol worship to a lot, but our intentions are clear. we do not worship our Dai, we love him and yes, the love manifests itself in ways that might seem different to others


zinger,,
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck..

Ps.. And I dont hate him..

Likes: thinker

Conscíous
 
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:41 pm
Location: Kindergarden

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Humsafar on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:11 pm

Zinger,
I've always had a problem with this "love for Dai" thing, and I've brought it up before also. JC is right, you've been brainwashed into loving your Dai, there can be no other explanation for it. As far as I can tell the idea of "love" in the context you profess it is extra-Islamic. Love is external to Islamic theology, even morality. You're not even required to "love" Allah, leave alone his prophets, Imams or Dais. Now, you could argue that a lot of things that Bohras do are extra-Islamic (even unIslamic), so why not this? Indeed, why not? But this takes us back full circle to innovations in the practice of our faith. And this "love for Dai" is at the top of the list of innovations.
Dais were not "loved" in the past nor were they regarded as "father figures". None of our scriptures or books allude to this kind of paternal and emotional reverence for the Dai. It wasn't there 100 years ago, not even 50 years ago - at least not the kind of abject devotional love we see today. So where has it come from? Obviously it has been systematically cultivated in the Bohra psyche over the years, and it has become so deep-seated that even an aware, open-minded guy like you gets all mushy about it. Yes, as an elder, our spiritual leader he commands respect and reverence - and even deserves it if he lives up to his role and responsibility. But love? No. At least not the kind you're having a hard time explaining and justifying. You've started questioning many things you took for granted about the community. Maybe it's time you started questioning your "love for Dai" too.
Unless you do you'll always be at pains to distinguish between "loving the Dai" and "worshipping the Dai". There is a very thin line dividing the two. You admit to all signs of worshipping (kissing photo etc.) and yet do not want to concede that it's idol worshipping. What is it then? What are your intentions? They are not clear to us. Or to any neutral onlooker, for that matter.

Likes: Zaheen

Humsafar
 
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby ghulam muhammed on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:06 pm

zinger wrote:a lot of us have begun to see the truth only now. it is not easy for us to overnight forget what love we had for our Dai and suddenly begin to 'hate' him just because our eyes have been opened.

Bro zinger,

I agree with you on the above and understand your predicaments as I was also brought up in a fanatic abde environment but with passage of time I too started feeling uncomfortable with a lot of Dai's actions. I began to question his actions and as I couldnt get any satisfactory answers from my family I started interacting with people of different ideologies and did a comparative study of religion. I then realised that the Dai's life and his actions were diagonally opposite to the ones he claims to follow, his sermons were nothing but "mere lip service". He could be nowhere compared with the true torchbearers of islam as our great leaders LED us by living a life of piety, austerity and personal sacrifices which he totally lacked.

My attitude towards the Dai then changed from love to indifference and finally hate !! I hate him not because he has done any personal harm to me or my family, infact I was NEVER harrased by anyone in Kothar till date. I can still get any work done in Kothar very easily but what Iam doing is fighting my own small battle for the benefit of the poor and helpless bohras who are tortured and humiliated 24x7 by the zaadas and I believe that the Dai is fully aware of the goings on and everything is done on his instructions only. The atrocities commited by zaadas in the recent past may probably be unknown to the Dai as he is in a vegetable state at present and lost all his vital senses due to old age and fragile health but that cannot be the reason to absolve him of the crimes commited in his name as the process was initiated by him only. No one can forgive the actions of Dawood's henchmen just because dawood himself has become old, sick and helpless, he has to reap what he has sowed !!
ghulam muhammed
 
Posts: 8451
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby Al Zulfiqar on Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:17 pm

ghulam muhammed wrote:
... may probably be unknown to the Dai as he is in a vegetable state at present and lost all his vital senses due to old age and fragile health


bro gm,

how can you say such disrespectful things??! whether he has become a vegetable, is suffering from dementia and alzheimers or whatever, he is still ghaib na malik. moreover he has transferred his powers to his son muffy, in whom those powers have got multiplied manifold. the whole world knows that muffy is the first dai who can hear voices from the grave and even from jannat, he can recall secret conversations between imam hussain and his horse before his shahadat,

all this happens because there is the light of noor and divinity which shines in bewe mola. so mola 52nd or 53rd - his proxy, they know exactly what is going on under their noses, how much each amil is looting and terrorising, how each committee member is bullying ordinary abdes and withdrawing funds from qarzan hasanah, how abdes and amtes are crying and struggling while paying wajebbat.... nothing is hidden from bewe mola.

surely, you must repent for insulting mola burhanuddin and his mansoos - kaderbhai. by doing so you are hurting the sentiments of loyal syedna lovers like zinger and phoenix et al.

2 Likes: SAJJADvoice

Al Zulfiqar
 
Posts: 4499
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Location: saifee mahal

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby dawoodfakhruddin on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:07 pm

bhaiyo saifee mahal par mazoon ne case kiya tha????? aur bohot kuch drama chal raha tha !! to decision kya aaya ???
dawoodfakhruddin
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:06 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby voice on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:50 pm

Clarification by TB (representative from VIzarat) and his silence on all the questions raised by Humanbeing and myself is clearly indicating on the inside controversies and inevitable rift.

Lets not get deviated on other issues. Formation of Qutbi bohra is important for all of us. Abdes as well as Reformists. Everyone wants change for better future. Lets hope to see fruitful outcome soon.
voice
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby lawyer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:41 am

voice wrote:Clarification by TB (representative from VIzarat) and his silence on all the questions raised by Humanbeing and myself is clearly indicating on the inside controversies and inevitable rift.

Lets not get deviated on other issues. Formation of Qutbi bohra is important for all of us. Abdes as well as Reformists. Everyone wants change for better future. Lets hope to see fruitful outcome soon.


and how do u know mazoon will bring better change? while he was silent on miserable situation of momeenin from years?

what he has done so far? other then settling all his family in USA? and buying properties in India?

sab chor hain....
Last edited by lawyer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Likes: SAJJAD

lawyer
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am
Location: Australia Melbourne

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby lawyer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:43 am

lets have different way of selecting DAI , same as catholics, only the most educated and qualified shud posses chance to serve dawat.

and even then he wont be all mighty power holder, people shud have power to change any one...
lawyer
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:17 am
Location: Australia Melbourne

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby zinger on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:56 am

BooM wrote:
zinger wrote:and yes, parading the Dai around, kissing his takhat, kissing his photo, i agree might seem like idol worship to a lot, but our intentions are clear. we do not worship our Dai, we love him and yes, the love manifests itself in ways that might seem different to others


zinger,,
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck..

Ps.. And I dont hate him..



No probs Boom, you have your opinion, we have ours. Challo, ab chill karte hain :)
zinger
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby zinger on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:56 am

BooM wrote:
zinger wrote:and yes, parading the Dai around, kissing his takhat, kissing his photo, i agree might seem like idol worship to a lot, but our intentions are clear. we do not worship our Dai, we love him and yes, the love manifests itself in ways that might seem different to others


zinger,,
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck..

Ps.. And I dont hate him..



No probs Boom, you have your opinion, we have ours. Challo, ab chill karte hain :)
zinger
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby zinger on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:56 am

BooM wrote:
zinger wrote:and yes, parading the Dai around, kissing his takhat, kissing his photo, i agree might seem like idol worship to a lot, but our intentions are clear. we do not worship our Dai, we love him and yes, the love manifests itself in ways that might seem different to others


zinger,,
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck..

Ps.. And I dont hate him..



No probs Boom, you have your opinion, we have ours. Challo, ab chill karte hain :)
zinger
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby zinger on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:57 am

ghulam muhammed wrote:
zinger wrote:a lot of us have begun to see the truth only now. it is not easy for us to overnight forget what love we had for our Dai and suddenly begin to 'hate' him just because our eyes have been opened.

Bro zinger,

I agree with you on the above and understand your predicaments as I was also brought up in a fanatic abde environment but with passage of time I too started feeling uncomfortable with a lot of Dai's actions. I began to question his actions and as I couldnt get any satisfactory answers from my family I started interacting with people of different ideologies and did a comparative study of religion. I then realised that the Dai's life and his actions were diagonally opposite to the ones he claims to follow, his sermons were nothing but "mere lip service". He could be nowhere compared with the true torchbearers of islam as our great leaders LED us by living a life of piety, austerity and personal sacrifices which he totally lacked.

My attitude towards the Dai then changed from love to indifference and finally hate !! I hate him not because he has done any personal harm to me or my family, infact I was NEVER harrased by anyone in Kothar till date. I can still get any work done in Kothar very easily but what Iam doing is fighting my own small battle for the benefit of the poor and helpless bohras who are tortured and humiliated 24x7 by the zaadas and I believe that the Dai is fully aware of the goings on and everything is done on his instructions only. The atrocities commited by zaadas in the recent past may probably be unknown to the Dai as he is in a vegetable state at present and lost all his vital senses due to old age and fragile health but that cannot be the reason to absolve him of the crimes commited in his name as the process was initiated by him only. No one can forgive the actions of Dawood's henchmen just because dawood himself has become old, sick and helpless, he has to reap what he has sowed !!



GM saab, i do not know what work you are doing, but i will take your word for it and admire what you are doing for the poor. keep it up. sincerely meant. do not look for any hidden meaning.
zinger
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Qutbi Bohra

Unread postby zinger on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:41 am

Humsafar wrote:Zinger,
I've always had a problem with this "love for Dai" thing, and I've brought it up before also. JC is right, you've been brainwashed into loving your Dai, there can be no other explanation for it. As far as I can tell the idea of "love" in the context you profess it is extra-Islamic. Love is external to Islamic theology, even morality. You're not even required to "love" Allah, leave alone his prophets, Imams or Dais. Now, you could argue that a lot of things that Bohras do are extra-Islamic (even unIslamic), so why not this? Indeed, why not? But this takes us back full circle to innovations in the practice of our faith. And this "love for Dai" is at the top of the list of innovations.
Dais were not "loved" in the past nor were they regarded as "father figures". None of our scriptures or books allude to this kind of paternal and emotional reverence for the Dai. It wasn't there 100 years ago, not even 50 years ago - at least not the kind of abject devotional love we see today. So where has it come from? Obviously it has been systematically cultivated in the Bohra psyche over the years, and it has become so deep-seated that even an aware, open-minded guy like you gets all mushy about it. Yes, as an elder, our spiritual leader he commands respect and reverence - and even deserves it if he lives up to his role and responsibility. But love? No. At least not the kind you're having a hard time explaining and justifying. You've started questioning many things you took for granted about the community. Maybe it's time you started questioning your "love for Dai" too.
Unless you do you'll always be at pains to distinguish between "loving the Dai" and "worshipping the Dai". There is a very thin line dividing the two. You admit to all signs of worshipping (kissing photo etc.) and yet do not want to concede that it's idol worshipping. What is it then? What are your intentions? They are not clear to us. Or to any neutral onlooker, for that matter.


humsafar saab, its actually quite difficult to brainwash the current generation of Bohras because we are all much more educated than what our fathers are.

as for whether Dais in the past were loved or revered, well yes, it is not written in any books, but that does not mean that people did not feel it.
yes you are right, it may not have been there in the past, but can you say it with absolute certainty? im guessing not. maybe you will look at your family enviorenment and say perhaps no. others might look at their family enviorenments and say perhaps yes. i dont think there really is any correct answer for this.

yes, i do get all mushy when i think of my Dai, i see nothing wrong in it. i doubt if my upbringing has anything to do with it :) im rational enough to be not swayed by my parents. my love stemmed from what i have known him to be all these years. seeing parts of reality now, does not change my opinion of him drastically

yes, i agree, loving and worshipping the Dai is a very thin line, which is why i agreed that there are some extremist Bohras out there, here too, who 'worship' the Dai. We try to guide them, but dont do it to overtly or strongly... consequences could be hazardous to health you see :wink:

I didnt realise i was having a hard time justifying my love for my Dai and in all honesty janaab, i see no reason why i need to.
zinger
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

PreviousNext

Return to Bohras and Reform

cron