Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Last friday, there was a mob outside saifee masjid, protesting the loud noise. the jihadis were no where to be seen. oh I forgot they are only used to intimidate mumineen who are not willing to do the bidding of the kothar and MS. Jihadis = MS's republican guard

What was actually the whole protest about and what was the real issue ??

muslameen were getting disturbed by the matam noise from saifee masjid. they protested and blocked the gates of saifee masjid

Yeah burhani gang only shows up to beat poor and helpless mumineens. They usually poop their pants when "real" people show up, where are they now ? There were hundreds ready to kill SKQ, where are they now when it comes to defending the actual property.

Shame on them, just a bunch of pussies

Just by naming a group "Jihadis" doesn't make one a Jihadi......... If this whole group faces only a couple of real life 'Jihadis' they will run for cover and their hizaars will turn yellow !!

Please keep us posted

Can someone confirm whether Our Muslim neighbours are protesting disturbance and noise from our masjids

These Burhani guards are flightless once they are out I of the perimeter of bohra property. There is a saying a guard usually calls help.

There are roles like militants,mercenaries, special ops, stealth operators, we have vacancies for most

If this was an Arab or Pathan community we would be turning away crowds

it seems badrul jamali bs is being ineffective. I wonder who will take his place. Any thoughts James

This kind of incident shows that we are to be blamed......24/7 we are making mockery of maatam. Maatam should be done but in a very sensible manner and on ideal ocassions, this kind of maatam 24/7 is going to make us go down the lane and face a lot more issues with the general muslimeens.

you call this bunch muslameen who stops us frm matam e Hussain oh yeah this is not the first time that such a bunch of muslameen has encircled masjid they appeared in siffin and karbala as well....... "KAISI THI WOH MUSALMANI KAISAY THAE WOH KALMA GOH......APNAY NABI KE NAWASAY KO RAKHA BHOOKA PIYASA HAI"

Bro salaar,

Please analyse the situation first and then comment !! No Muslim prevents Bohras from doing matam during Mohurrum as it has its own significance during that solemn month but doing matam 24x7 at the drop of a hat not only disturbs others but mocks the very 'Ghum e Hussain' which is the main reason behind it. Doing matam during marriages, birthdays, urus, while chatting on cell phones, waking the abdes who are fast asleep due to the boring bayans etc. is in itself a mockery because every ritual has its own time and place. "Matam" in the true sense is an emotional reaction after a Bohra is engulfed in deep grief due to the remembrance of the atrocities committed on shohadas of Karbala. The first reaction is the tears flowing from the eyes after which the individual automatically raises his hands for matam. Now tell me as to how many Bohras have you seen crying whilst doing matam ?

While on the subject, kindly note that "Matam" was altogether prohibited by none other then the Dai Abdeali Saifuddin which is clearly mentioned in Bohra literature.

Moreover, the local muslims objected as it was done at the time of Friday namaz which disturbed their prayers. other then a Friday, they have never raised objections.

Bro Ghulam Mohammad, some critic once said why do you perform matam of Hussain he is a shaheed and zinda e javaid, on that argument a few lines were said by a renowned poet,................................... HAM JANTAY HAI KIS LIYE TUM GHAM NAHI KARTAY........QATIL KABHI MAQTOOL KA MATAM NAHI KARTAY.........MAZLOOM HI MAZLOOM KO ROTA HAI JAHAN MAI.............ZALIM KABHI MAZLOOM KA MATAM NAHI KARTAY............HIMMAT HO TOU MEHSHAR MAE PAYAMBAR SE YE KEHNA...............HUM ZINDA E JAVAID KA MATAM NAHI KARTAY. do you remember what happened when maulatena Fatima tuz Zahra used to weep in grief after RasoolAllah, these so called muslims came threatening her to stop crying and said that we cannot sleep but actually its not the wailing or sound of the matam that bothers them it is the enemity in their hearts against aal e Rasool which pricks them for such attrocities, but history says the more this gham and matam has been suppressed the more it is observed

salaar wrote:Bro Ghulam Mohammad, some critic once said why do you perform matam of Hussain he is a shaheed and zinda e javaid, on that argument a few lines were said by a renowned poet,................................... HAM JANTAY HAI KIS LIYE TUM GHAM NAHI KARTAY........QATIL KABHI MAQTOOL KA MATAM NAHI KARTAY.........MAZLOOM HI MAZLOOM KO ROTA HAI JAHAN MAI.............ZALIM KABHI MAZLOOM KA MATAM NAHI KARTAY............HIMMAT HO TOU MEHSHAR MAE PAYAMBAR SE YE KEHNA...............HUM ZINDA E JAVAID KA MATAM NAHI KARTAY. do you remember what happened when maulatena Fatima tuz Zahra used to weep in grief after RasoolAllah, these so called muslims came threatening her to stop crying and said that we cannot sleep but actually its not the wailing or sound of the matam that bothers them it is the enemity in their hearts against aal e Rasool which pricks them for such attrocities, but history says the more this gham and matam has been suppressed the more it is observed

Dude, read the comments carefully first. No one wants to take away your beloved matam from you. Don't act as a victim and plead fair treatment when the loudspeakers are blasted 24/7. Shouting out matam during friday prayers ofcourse the muslims will get angry. Whats the difference between bohris and wahabis if you cant let others live in peace.

Bohri masjids can only turn up the loudspeakers in the subcontinent. Try doing that anywhere in the Gulf hahah.

Anyways as GM said, there is a time and place for matam. Ask your elders and they would confess matam was only done in Moharram and on specific nights of the year only. This preserved the exclusivity and rigor of the ritual. Nowadays you are made to do matam on Eid, lailatul Qadr, and every gathering as far as I know. It was supposed to be a silent outburst of emotion. Now when you repeat it everyday without any feeling what is the point? You cant really recreate the degree of emotions felt during the Ashura every day of the year. Today, matam is only used to fill the gap left by the mediocre oratory skills of our amils and dai.

If Ma Fatema was stopped from wailing and crying because others could not sleep it IS A VALID REASON. You can do all the gham you want, do all the matam you want to do, but not at the expense of others peace and wellbeing. Do your matam silently and no one would stop you. Dont plead the victim by disturbing others first by blaring loudspeakers and then accusing them of not joining you in matam because of enmity against Aal e Rasool. What bollocks.

Please dont disturb the rest of the society by your loud and extravagant show that passes off as matam these days. They are only bringing more shame to our community, not pride.

our community you black goose how can you call this community your community when you have grudge against matam e hussain, by the way matam was being done in masjid not in your house that annoyed that bunch of hooligans and this mess is created only because enemies like you people are hiding in our ranks who instigate these feelings to the sleeping fitnat, we are proud to start our wedding with matam e hussain and our eids with matam e hussain.

it seems even James is also scared of Badrul and therefore not replied to my post. This proves the point the children of Yusuf Najmuddin that they are coercing mumineen.

our community you black goose how can you call this community your community when you have grudge against matam e hussain, by the way matam was being done in masjid not in your house that annoyed that bunch of hooligans and this mess is created only because enemies like you people are hiding in our ranks who instigate these feelings to the sleeping fitnat, we are proud to start our wedding with matam e hussain and our eids with matam e hussain

Your people misuse the loudspeaker and the rest of society is hooligan. Where do you come up with this stuff? I have no grudge against matam if it is done silently and on its proper times. It is not matam if it becomes a source of pain and dicomfort to others.

Yeah mate, beware of the "enemies" in the ranks. There will be one day when these "enemies" will outnumber the captives and the TRUE Dawat shall be re-established again. Your ringleaders just have to keep on going like this

then you would die with this ambition within your heart but the sons of dawatul haq will keep haunting your generations

Salaar what about the 12 adabs to be followed in Masjid, one of them is "UNCHO AWAAZ NAA KAREY", just wanted to remind you.

The true jihadis are those who consider and use thier God given intellect to distinguish between goodness and evil, right and wrong, forgiveness and curses, and constantly try to improve themselves. Sometimes they are very different from the Jihadis you find fighting on the streets of Cairo or Kabul or Saifee Jubilee st.

The true Jihaadis - the thinking kind are everywhere. Msot of the time they drink a potion that makes them invisible. They rarely go out on streets and pick a fight. They are Here, there, badri mahal, Saifee mahal, thane, udaipur, in your homes. Look left, right, in the mirror. Occasionally they show up in this forum too and you might spot them once in a while. However, you can only spot them when you have had a sip of the thinking potion beforehand, otherwise they become invisible.

Bro salaar,

I think you have completely missed the point, it is not about "Stopping" a matam, it is about the disturbance during Friday prayers as many namazis have to pray on road due to lack of space in masjids. If at all the intention was to "Stop" the matam then they could have done it many times before also and believe me, no bohra would have been able to confront them considering their numbers and their aggression. The other reason was that Bohras have made a collapsible bridge in the middle of the road and during every visit of SMS, they literally close the road for general public which created further problems as SMS made his grand entry at Zohar time when many Muslim namazis were offering prayers on roads. Please think logically and see that this situation could have been tackled very peacefully if some concern was shown for Friday prayers and if SMS avoided the gala show of strength.

I personally feel that it is incorrect to spill religious activities on roads as it creates nuisance for all and sundry, how do you feel when your neighbourhood is cramped up with Ganpati mandals during Ganesh Chaturti, how do you feel when they play loud music at night even during Navratris ? There are old and sick people staying around, there are children who are doing their homework or preparing for their exams. Even the blocking of roads for Namaz and inconveniencing others is not right, if there is no space in Masjid then they can very well pray at home but here the question was firstly the constant disturbance during 40 days and then the loud chants of matam exactly at the time of Friday prayers.

Regarding your examples of Fatema tus zehra (a.s.), I think I better not comment as it will unnecessarily lead to shia/sunni fights and also divert the topic.

salaar wrote:our community you black goose how can you call this community your community when you have grudge against matam e hussain, by the way matam was being done in masjid not in your house that annoyed that bunch of hooligans and this mess is created only because enemies like you people are hiding in our ranks who instigate these feelings to the sleeping fitnat, we are proud to start our wedding with matam e hussain and our eids with matam e hussain.

If you are so arrogant then be prepare for another apology.

ghulam muhammed wrote:"Matam" in the true sense is an emotional reaction after a Bohra is engulfed in deep grief due to the remembrance of the atrocities committed on shohadas of Karbala. The first reaction is the tears flowing from the eyes after which the individual automatically raises his hands for matam. Now tell me as to how many Bohras have you seen crying whilst doing matam ?

Dang! Has somebody made GM our Dai now lol?

Actually, why not dude... afterall, you are a highly qualified man, who has spent years studying Islam at the most prestigious Muslim Institutions, and are a renowned Scholar, whose knowledge is respected the world over!
You're not just some nobody on the internet, who Googles websites and copy/pastes them, are you now... LOL!

On second thought GM... I think I'll stick with Khuzzy if you don't mind lol!

While on the subject, kindly note that "Matam" was altogether prohibited by none other then the Dai Abdeali Saifuddin which is clearly mentioned in Bohra literature.

Dais can, and do, change customs according to the times - that is part their duty and part of our Faith... for example, women used to wear Saris, now they wear Ridas etc etc...
If you don't believe in this, that is fine... simply go join another community.
Thanks!

Actually, why not dude... afterall, you are a highly qualified man, who has spent years studying Islam at the most prestigious Muslim Institutions, and are a renowned Scholar, whose knowledge is respected the world over!

Actually, Qutbi Zero He does have more knowledge then you do..and he is more qualified then you are and his knowledge is respected around the world, see his is India, many of us who respect him, his opinions and knowledge-- reside in USA-Canada-Australia-Saudi Arabia and East Africa so that covers almost entire world lol

Qutbi-Hero wrote:Dang! Has somebody made GM our Dai now lol?

Actually, why not dude... afterall, you are a highly qualified man, who has spent years studying Islam at the most prestigious Muslim Institutions, and are a renowned Scholar, whose knowledge is respected the world over!
You're not just some nobody on the internet, who Googles websites and copy/pastes them, are you now... LOL!

These personal attacks only prove you've got no argument.

Qutbi-Hero wrote:Dais can, and do, change customs according to the times - that is part their duty and part of our Faith... for example, women used to wear Saris, now they wear Ridas etc etc...
If you don't believe in this, that is fine... simply go join another community.
Thanks!

Please tell us the hikmat of wearing fancy dresses on lailatul Qadr. Is there a costume party I didnt know about? Or the hikmat of prohibiting ladies to do tasbeeh in the masjid? Or the hikmat of doing sajda to Dai's photo frame after entering the masjid. These are some of the customs introduced by current Dai and there has to be some hikmat to it. You are probably going to hide behind the holier than thou argument or claim I dont have raza to know top secret intel.

ARB wrote:These personal attacks only prove you've got no argument.

No, they prove that I can attack a person on a personal level with my argument

Please tell us the hikmat of wearing fancy dresses on lailatul Qadr. Is there a costume party I didnt know about? Or the hikmat of prohibiting ladies to do tasbeeh in the masjid? Or the hikmat of doing sajda to Dai's photo frame after entering the masjid. These are some of the customs introduced by current Dai and there has to be some hikmat to it. You are probably going to hide behind the holier than thou argument or claim I dont have raza to know top secret intel.

No idea dude - but I'll ask Khuzzy when I see him!

In the meantime, if you don't like or believe in this stuff - don't do it... I know I don't lol!

If you really can't stand it then... you are free to find another community more to your liking!

Simple

You dont believe in that stuff, yet still believe in the Dai who ordered them?

And why should I leave? SMS is the one bringing in new unheard-of customs he is the one at fault.

Dais can, and do, change customs according to the times - that is part their duty and part of our Faith... for example, women used to wear Saris, now they wear Ridas etc etc...

Actually, the bohras simply took 14 centuries to learn that which the other muslims knew all along. Someone should remind this fool that it wasn't the Dai who asked the women to wear Saris!!

You are a perfect Zero when it comes to matters of faith. Didn't you talk about there being "rational" arguments against your own faith you moron?

Dais can, and do, change customs according to the times - that is part their duty and part of our Faith... for example, women used to wear Saris, now they wear Ridas etc etc...

Rida is an evolved dress from Ghagra – Choli ( indian cultural influence) , which has been adopted / adapted by bohra womenfolk with support of Dai. If Dai wants to follow prophet’s instruction to the “T” then Dai must promote ‘abayas ‘ as they were worn in those days in Arabian lands. Even for men; Kurta- Pyjama and Topi is regionally / culture influenced dressing.

Dais have changed / innovated a lot of customs which has become unislamic or were not Islamic at all in first place.

Changes, Adaptation or Innovations by Dais can be simply be accepted as part of survival rather then matter of faith !

Bro dont you get tired of flogging the same horse over and over and over and over and over again?

You have been having this same problem for the past 3 years now.

Why cant you just accept the fact that this is just some colourful addition made to the main culture and its not unislamic (im talking of the more trivial ones, not the big ones, because you have a problem with all of them, big or small)

come on bro, lighten up. Mama-Mausalu, Chera Cheri, Kaato Kutwanu, colourful ridas... these never harmed anyone. chill kar bhai

And that is why I said, It is matter of adapting to regional cultures for survival and has nothing to do with faith. Morever this colorful additions that are promoted under the guise of religion or faith must be corrected.

humanbeing wrote: Changes, Adaptation or Innovations by Dais can be simply be accepted as part of survival rather then matter of faith !

I don’t have any issues with such colorful additions, I may also enjoy few of them as per my taste. But lets not be hypocritical about it calling it faith or religious !

An interested example : An abde wagar women sprinkles water reciting salwat to purify a sofa as a hindu man was sitting on it.

Sprinkling of water and reciting some shloka or mantra is an hindu practice ! (please correct me if I m wrong)

What an irony !

humanbeing wrote:And that is why I said, It is matter of adapting to regional cultures for survival and has nothing to do with faith. Morever this colorful additions that are promoted under the guise of religion or faith must be corrected.

humanbeing wrote: Changes, Adaptation or Innovations by Dais can be simply be accepted as part of survival rather then matter of faith !

I don’t have any issues with such colorful additions, I may also enjoy few of them as per my taste. But lets not be hypocritical about it calling it faith or religious !

An interested example : An abde wagar women sprinkles water reciting salwat to purify a sofa as a hindu man was sitting on it.

Sprinkling of water and reciting some shloka or mantra is an hindu practice ! (please correct me if I m wrong)

What an irony !

truly ironical bro. never seen the water bit myself. must be some silly old woman

and btw, why are you going back on your words now with "I don’t have any issues with such colorful additions, I may also enjoy few of them as per my taste.".?????

face it bro, you have serious issues with them.... you have always seriously voted for banning some of the practices i mentioned in my earlier post. so why this sudden change in mindset now???

if you agree that small things like these can be overlooked, i agree, there are far greater innovations that have been introduced that need to be questioned. questioned mind you, not outrightly abolished. lets question them, discuss them and then decide what to do. dont be judge jury and executioner and pass judgement, cause then you are not different from kothar