Bohra and Ithna Asharis Shiahs

Guest · #1

Assalamu alaykum Dear Jinx, The topic has been covered extensively in past thread (I think that is why most didn't reply). I think it is very wrong for any shia (be they Bohra or Aghani or Ithna ashari) to ridicule another on their imaan. It is one thing to criticize belief, but not on their sincerity of that belief (ref. "bohras being halfway shias). If there are specific questions then present them.

Guest · #2

I had no intention to make fun of anyone. By saying half way shia I ment that Bohri belifs are much like those of the Shia, but not all beliefs. Eg they observe Moharram yet offer prayers like Sunni.I am sorry if I had hert anyones feelings.

Guest · #3

Dear Br. ShiaMuslim Assalaamo-AlaikuMajority of muslims in this world pray five parayers at five distinct times. They do not combine Zohr-Asar and Maghrib-Ishaa prayers unless they are travelling or impeding natural calamites (like rain, snow or sand storm which, will prevent them form going to Masjid). They pray Jumma prayer in Masjid. A Khutba is delivered by Imaam and Fard prayer is Shortened to two Raka's. Also Fatiha and other sura is recited loudly by Imaam. This is whow Rasool(SAW) prayed thousand of times in Madina and Mecca.If I made any mistake, I seek allah's forgiveness and stand ready to be corrected. Wassalaam

Guest · #4

Assalamu alaykum Dear ShiaMuslim, I thank you for you clarification. I am not exactly sure what you mean by saying bohras pray like sunni..please explain how.Dear MuslimFirst, Do not observe by the majority as the correct method. Imam Malik taught prays exactly like shias and this is the method taught by those of Madina. If you ever saw the Hajj prays last year (broadcasted on Dubai TV) from the Haramain...the imam did the salat like Imam Jafar Sadiq taught.Also the times of salat are: Zhuhr is determined when the shadow is the same length as the object. Asr is after the last time of Zhuhr until just before maghrib. Maghrib is from true sunset until you see the redness glow of the sun in the sky. Isha is after the last time from Maghrib until nisfil layl or half the night (this does not mean midnight though). Fajr is at true dawn until shuruq.This is according to the Imami, Malik and Hanbali schools. There is no mention of five times but only five prayers. There are mainly hadiths where the Prophet prayed them together without being in danger or calamity.

Guest · #5

Qiyam,Well spoken...it's not 5 times, rather 5 prayers!

Guest · #6

Br. Qiyam Please explainWhen is last time of Zuhr and bgining of Asr?If prophet commbined Zuhr-Asr, Maghrib- Isha sometimes without reason why the bohris combine them all the time?Why bohri's do not have Jumma prayers with Khutba (Sermon), 2 Raka Fard and loud recitation by Imaam like Fajr-Maghrib and Ihah prayers.?Dint Prophet pay five prayers at five distinct times?This is for my understanding and clearing misconceptions

Guest · #7

Br. Qiyam Here is how Br. Khalid Shaukat a consultant to Major Islamic Organization calculates prayer times. This is from his web siteWWW.moonsighting.comZuhrin most Prayer Schedules is shown at Noon (which is before Zawaal). Noon time, when the sun is at its highest point, is Haraam time for any Prayer. Theoretically, the sun does not go into Zawaal phase until its edges are out of the zenith line (line between the observer to the center of the sun when it is at Noon-phase). It takes about 1.5 minutes for the sun's disk come out of zenith. Additional 1 minutes must be added for a 30 miles radius consideration mentioned for Maghrib time. Thus, a minimum of 2.5 minutes must be considered as the minimum limit past Noon time for the beginning of Zuhr. Considering, that this precise theoretical definition is not mentioned in Ahadith, a little factor of safety (additional 2.5 minutes) is considered as a minimum for the beginning of Zuhr. Thus, 5 minutes are added in Noon time for Zuhr. Asris calculated for Shafei/Maliki/Hambali Fiqh (Shadow = Length + shadow @ noon), and for Hanafi Fiqh (Shadow = twice length + shadow @ noon). Maghribshould be calculated at least as 3 minutes after sunset for the following considerations: 1. The effects of actual humidity, temperature, and pressure in the atmosphere may cause a different refraction of sun light than assumed in calculations. 2. In some areas there could be a downward sloping ground towards western horizon that causes a delayed sunset for an observer compared to a perfectly level ground as assumed in calculations. 3. For major metropolitan cities, the sunset in a 30 mile radius from the point taken in calculation varies. Since the people using this schedule may live all around the city, this may delay sunset for some areas. For more informationgo to Khalid Shaukats address as follows http://www.moonsighting.com/prayer.html

Guest · #8

Assalamu alaykum MuslimFirst, Insha'Allah I will try to answer your posted questions as best I can:"When is last time of Zuhr and bgining of Asr?" --The time of dhuhr is from when the sun has passed the zenith, and that is when the shadows start to get longer. The end of the time of Dhuhr is when the shadow of an object is the same length as that object in addition to the length of its shadow at noon. The beginning of the time of 'Asr after Dhuhr Its end of 'Asr is when the shadow of an object is twice the length of that object in addition to the length of its shadow at noon. "If prophet combined Zuhr-Asr, Maghrib- Isha sometimes without reason why the bohris combine them all the time?" --They are not combined as a requirement but out of practical necessity. You can if you want pray all the salats during their any time during their individual time spans and your prayers are valid. If the jam'at sees it is more pratical for combing the prays for getting the most amount of people to all the prayer…isn't this better than getting half at five separate times. The main idea is not (as the sunnis have done) made a requirement to pray at five times when it wasn't during the times of Rasullah (sa). Many times Maulana (tus) has given bayans after dhuhr and prayed Asr at a later times. This is the same for Isha. Remember on Laytul Qadr, we pray Isha at its latest time. "Why bohri's do not have Jumma prayers with Khutba (Sermon)" --The only person allowed to give the Jumah khutba is the Imam az'Zaman (AS). Not just the imam of the salat. Remember no one was allowed to lead the salat without the Prophet (SA) permission to lead."Recitation by Imaam like Fajr-Maghrib and Isha prayers.?" --The recitation of the surahs during Fajr, Maghrib, and Isha prayers are said aloud. I am not sure what your question is. Why bohri's do not have Jumma prayers with Khutba (Sermon), 2 Raka Fard and loud recitation by Imaam like Fajr-Maghrib and Ihah prayers.? Dint Prophet pay five prayers at five distinct times? This is for my understanding and clearing misconceptions

Guest · #9

Dear Br.qiyam-Assalamo-Alaiku Thank you for your post and clearification. Object of combining the two prayers is convience and need to draw more people to Masjid. That is very nice. but may I ask you why my bohri frainds combine this prayers when they are praying at home? Remember Bohri Jamaat does not have masjid in city where we are located. The combine prayers even on weeekends when they have all the time on hand. When I am at my bohri fraind's house and when it is Maghrib time I pray magrib at his house and he does Isha also at same tome. I was My Iranian fraind who lactures on quran at our center told me that Imaam Khumani has instructed people not to be lazy and pray at five separate times.We can argue about only Imaam-uz -Azmn delivering Khutba. I am that will never happen.

Guest · #10

Assalamu alaykum Dear MuslimFirst, Regarding Bohris combining at homes is their own personal reasons (I would not comment), but you are inadvertantly implying that they are wrong in what they are doing. Remember there is nothing that says you cannot perform one after the other. Your Iranian friend is right in what Ayatullah Khomeni has said. However, other ayatullahs have said it is preferable to pray them together.I don't want to argue about the khutba as well, but remember will the Prophet (sa) was alive, he was one that gave the khutba on Yawmil Jumah. Najhul Balagha is a complication of khutbahs by Ali (as).

Guest · #11

This is a very long article, sorry

. It talks about combining prayers. Joining Prayers and Other related IssuesOne of the issues, among many others, that the Sunnis quarrel with the Shia about is the form, method, and time of the Prayer (Salat) prescribed on every male and female believer. Indeed, they make a mockery of the Shi'i prayer!The Shia acknowledge FIVE daily PRAYERS. However, they are allowed to pray them in THREE distinct TIMES, not five; the five prayers are: Fajr (Morning), Zuhr (Noon), `Asr (Afternoon), Maghrib (Sunset), and Isha (Night).The Fajr (morning) is prayed at the same time as the Sunnis do; however, the Shia usually wait 10 minutes before they consider it to be time for Fajr.We are allowed to pray noon and afternoon prayer one after another (without a lot of delay between the two). Similarly we are allowed to pray sunset prayer and night prayer one after another. Actually it is better to pray in their own specific time (close to what Sunnis do), but it is not necessary. Thus instead of five separate times, we can pray all the five daily prayers only in three separate times.(NOTE: The prayers in ALL cases are DISTINCT (separate), it's NOT that they (the Shia) pray eight Raka't (for Zuhr and `Asr) straight, or seven Raka't (for Maghrib and Isha) straight, as part of ONE prayer. It is the SAME regular form of prayer, but combined into one TIME, NOT one PRAYER.)It should also be noted that the Sunnis agree to the combining of prayers in the case of Rain, Travel, Fear, or other emergencies. Two forms are allowed: Jam'a Taqdeem (Early Combination) or Jam'a Ta-ikheer (Late Combination). An example of Early combination is the combining of Zuhr and `Asr to be prayed in the time of Zuhr. An example of Late Combination is the combining of the Zuhr and `Asr to be prayed in the time of `Asr. The EXCEPTION among the Sunni schools are the Hanifites (Followers of Abu Hanifa): They contend that you CANNOT combine the prayers at any time, not even if you're traveling. This clearly violated the other Sunni schools of thought, but it was and still is tolerated. The Maliki's, Shafeei's, and Hanbali's all agree to the combining of prayers when one is traveling, but are in conflict on other times. The Shia said that one can combine the prayers ANYTIME without ANY cause of fear, rain, or whatever. Nonetheless, the Shia also contend that if you want to pray them separately, it is acceptable as well.Now, let's question why the Shia perform the Prayers as described above, and who is more accurate in their Prayer, the Sunnis or the Shia? Here is what Allah (SWT) says in the Holy Quran: "Establish regular prayers at the Sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the recital of the Quran in the morning prayer; for the recital of the dawn is Witnessed. [17:78]"How many prayer times are mentioned? THREE, NOT five. Count them: the "Sun's Decline, Darkness of the Night, and the Morning Prayer." That's THREE, not FIVE.Now, what did the Prophet (PBUH&HF) do? Here's what Ibn Abbas, one of the most famous narrators, says according to the Musnad of Ibn Hanbal (One of the books of tradition): "The Prophet (PBUH&HF) prayed in Madina, while residing there, NOT TRAVELING, seven and eight (this is an indication to the seven Raka't of Maghrib and Isha combined, and the eight Raka't of Zuhr and `Asr combined)."Musnad al-Imam Ibn Hanbal, vol. 1, page 221. Also, in the Muwatta' of Malik (Imam of Maliki sect), vol. 1, page 161, Ibn Abbas says: "The Prophet (PBUH&HF) prayed Zuhr and `Asr in combination and Maghrib and Isha in combination WITHOUT a reason for fear or travel." As for Sahih Muslim, see the following under the chapter of "Combination of prayers, when one is resident": Ibn Abbas reported: The messenger of Allah(may peace be upon him) observed the noon and the afternoon prayers together, and the sunset and Isha prayers together without being in a state of fear or in a state of journeySahih Muslim, English version, Chapter CCL, Tradition #1515 Ibn Abbas reported that the messenger of Allah(may peace be upon him) combined the noon prayer with the afternoon prayer and the sunset prayer with the Isha prayer in Medina without being in a state of danger or rainfall. And in the hadith transmitted by Waki(the words are): "I said to Ibn Abbas: What prompted him to do that? He said: So that his(prophet's)Ummah should not be put to (unnecessary) hardship."Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter CCL, Tradition #1520 Abdullah b. Shaqiq reported: Ibn Abbas one day addressed us in the afternoon(after the afternoon prayer) till the sun disappeared, and the stars appeared, and the people began to say: Prayer, prayer. A person from Banu Tamim came there. He neither slackened nor turned away, but (continued crying): Prayer, prayer. Ibn Abbas said: May you be deprived of your mother, do you teach me sunnah? And then he said: I saw the messenger of Allah(may peace be upon him) combining the noon and afternoon prayers and the sunset and Isha prayers. Abdullah b. Shaqiq said: Some doubt was created in my mind about it. So I came to Abu Huraira and asked him(about it) and he testified his assertion.Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter CCL, Tradition #1523 Abdullah b. Shaqiq al-Uqaili reported: A person said to Ibn Abbas(as he delayed the prayer): Prayer. He kept silent. He again said: Prayer. He again kept silent, and he cried: Prayer. He again kept silent and said: May you be deprived of your mother, do you teach us about prayer? We used to combine two prayers during the lifetime of the messenger of Allah(may peace be upon him).Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter CCL, Tradition #1524 Ibn Abbas reported: The messenger of Allah(may peace be upon him) observed the noon and afternoon prayers together in Medina without being in a state of fear or in a state of journey. Abu Zubair said: I asked Sa'id[one of the narrators] why he did that. He said: I asked Ibn Abbas as you have asked me, and he replied that he[the Holy prophet] wanted that no one among his Ummah should be put to [unnecessary] hardship.Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter CCL, Tradition #1516 Ibn Abbas reported that the Messenger of Allah(may peace be upon him) observed in Medina seven (rakahs) and eight(rakahs), i.e., (he combined) the noon and afternoon prayers(eight rakahs) and the sunset and Isha prayers(seven Rakahs).Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter CCL, Tradition #1522Now, who is it that follows the customs and tradition of the Prophet (PBUH&HF)??? The Shia who follow it to the letter, or the Sunnis who don't even acknowledge the traditions in their own books? This is a SIGN for those who reflect!Furthermore, Allah (SWT) continually reminds us in the Quran that Islam was revealed to make your life easier, not more difficult. How then, can one work, eat, sleep, study, etc... with five prayers a day in five different times? You pray Maghrib, and an hour later, you pray Isha. Is this convenient, say for doctors in a surgery room? Believe me, if the Sunnis followed what the Prophet (PBUH&HF) did (five prayers in three TIMES a day), many people would be praying today. I witnessed this myself in this holy month of Ramadan. My Sunni friends pray Zuhr, then sleep. They then wake up about 30 minutes before Iftar (the time to break the fast), and pray `Asr. Many also miss the prayer! Is this really convenient??? Question and ask for the TRUTH, and if you are honest and sincere, Allah (SWT) will guide you.

Guest · #12

Mash'Allah Br. Jinx! Good Post.

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