Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

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_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#1

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:53 am

I have been recently noticing this in my interactions with the dawoodi bohras that most of them are choosing to have less children, in some cases just one. I assume and apprehend that the bohra population is on a decline. Following points being the basis of my doubt :-
  • Higher literacy rates
  • Urban character of the populace
  • Conversion to other maslaks
  • High expectations of single candidates
  • Skewed sex ratio where large number of grooms are not finding brides
  • Conversion of females to sunni maslaks through love marriages
  • And so on
I have this feeling but am not able to substantiate my doubts, the leaked xls file from bohra leaks is also showing close to 5.5 Lakh adherents.
I am having a gut feeling that we are the next parsis, can some informed guy dispel my doubts or am I having the wrong view point ?
A good measure of the population decline is the TFR (Total fertility ratio) which I suspect is close to 1.5 in our community.
Can anyone shed some light ? :cry:

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#2

Unread post by think » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:07 am

the huge gathering in Karachi from all over the world is one of the indicators that the bohri population is on the rise. May be in the west parents have one or two kids but in India , Pakistan , Africa and other countries parents have 4 to 12 children and many wives.

momeenbhai
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Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#3

Unread post by momeenbhai » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:24 pm

by no means bohra population declining....but yes most bohras are falling in akhlaaq and knowledge of deen. also they are turning up as robots who have no brain.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#4

Unread post by think » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:52 pm

True , robots with no brains, but then I fail to understand how very well educated surgeons, doctors , engineers and lawyers fall prey to this deception. We are all aware of the money hungry jamaats all over the world and their misuse of funds collected in the name of religion. In Karachi today there is a10 to 25 lakh rs.cash for pagla and 25 lakh rs. and upwards for ziafat and there is a long wait . Two ziafats and several paglas is the itinary of the day. Who do you think has so much cash ?

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#5

Unread post by think » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:54 pm

Again, I am getting off the subject. The question is ,if there is a population rise among the bohri's.

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#6

Unread post by think » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:33 pm

bohri population of Karachi around 30,000 and mumineen from other places around the world 25000. Approximate total population of bohris gathered during Ashura in Karachi 55,000.

SBM
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Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#7

Unread post by SBM » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:13 am

think wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:33 pm bohri population of Karachi around 30,000 and mumineen from other places around the world 25000. Approximate total population of bohris gathered during Ashura in Karachi 55,000.
According to Pakistani Government sources, the gathering is estimated to be around 40,000

think
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#8

Unread post by think » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:21 pm

well, my source of info is the news media which may be off as it always hyped up and exaggerated and most of the time it is a white lie. Regardless the question of the day is " is the bohri population i.e. dawoodi bohras on the decline?

allbird
Posts: 511
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#9

Unread post by allbird » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:36 pm

Definitely a BIG NO..... world Population has crossed over 7 billion. Likewise bohra population is growing exponentially there is huge shortage of spaces during 23th Night Lail-latul qadr and Ashara 10th. I can feel the difference every year, its our masajids are getting smaller or population is GROWING.

think
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#10

Unread post by think » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:12 pm

Well that kills this subject of comparing bohri population with the declining Parsi community. As per Hadees the promise of Allah to Rasool that the entire world will be muslim, so the parsi community still believing in fire as their God has to come to and end one day, slowly but surely.

_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#11

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:32 am

think wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:07 am the huge gathering in Karachi from all over the world is one of the indicators that the bohri population is on the rise. May be in the west parents have one or two kids but in India , Pakistan , Africa and other countries parents have 4 to 12 children and many wives.
Which world are you living in ? I dont in the one that you mentioned.

_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#12

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:34 am

allbird wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:36 pm Definitely a BIG NO..... world Population has crossed over 7 billion. Likewise bohra population is growing exponentially there is huge shortage of spaces during 23th Night Lail-latul qadr and Ashara 10th. I can feel the difference every year, its our masajids are getting smaller or population is GROWING.
That is because of urbanization and lateral movement of bohris coming from the rural to the urban. Most of the unfortunate gaamwala dumbos dont get a bride if they live in their gaams !!!
Think about it. No population increase just lateral movement.

_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#13

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:36 am

_Zulfikaar_ wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:32 am
think wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:07 am the huge gathering in Karachi from all over the world is one of the indicators that the bohri population is on the rise. May be in the west parents have one or two kids but in India , Pakistan , Africa and other countries parents have 4 to 12 children and many wives.
Which world are you living in ? I dont in the one that you mentioned.
I want to definitely live in this world that you mentioned. I want my many bohri wives :D :D :D

_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#14

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:37 am

I just came up with this topicis because like 10 years ago the kothar was screaming for about a 1 million strong population but now that has given way to a 5 lakh population claim.

think
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#15

Unread post by think » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:01 pm

If you can afford it and have the physical strength to please more than one bohri wife, you are free to marry another one. the muslim law allows a man to have more than one wife in any muslim country . The middle east, Indonesia, Malaysia are a few choices.
The reason may very well be because of rural population explosion and dearth of jobs as to why this hoard is moving into urban areas. so such movement is not an indication of decline. It is still an increase in bohra population . The only difference is that it is in the rural areas instead of urban. The reason being because of the busy life of urban living where one has to work hard to pay the bills of city life and facilities.

bohra_manus
Posts: 214
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Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#16

Unread post by bohra_manus » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:59 pm

think wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:01 pm If you can afford it and have the physical strength to please more than one bohri wife, you are free to marry another one. the muslim law allows a man to have more than one wife in any muslim country . The middle east, Indonesia, Malaysia are a few choices.
The reason may very well be because of rural population explosion and dearth of jobs as to why this hoard is moving into urban areas. so such movement is not an indication of decline. It is still an increase in bohra population . The only difference is that it is in the rural areas instead of urban. The reason being because of the busy life of urban living where one has to work hard to pay the bills of city life and facilities.
Your two wives will get you double dose of Muffy Maula. :D

think
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:15 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#17

Unread post by think » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:46 pm

who or which law is stopping one from having two wives if one so desires. For the wife to be muffy walley is not the criteria. Just take the example of Mr.Mufaddal or his father or grand father. They all had more than one wife.

_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#18

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:01 am

Once again you are all moving tangentially to the topic. Lets not talk about the wives but the aspect of the decline.
Lets take the case of Ahmedabad :
Tangible proofs of atleast 40 - 60 houses already converting to other maslaks.
Secondly due to our fabulous dai , doing genuine daawat is long dead and have you seen someone converting to our fold lately ?
Third lots of bohri girls are marrying outside and the vice versa is of a subdued degree !!
Go to any ITNC office and there are scores of unwed youth waiting to get married but find no girls there might be other reasons but such guys will obviously contribute to the decline.

_Zulfikaar_
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#19

Unread post by _Zulfikaar_ » Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:18 am

Population Crisis of Dawoodi Bohra Population

1) Our population is degrading by Approx 25 to 30 Thousand per annum.

2) Approx birth rate of child per year is Approximate 18 to 20 Thousand.

3) But death rate of senior citizen per year is Approximate 45 to 50 Thousand.

4) We are approximately around 7.2 lakhs all over the world.

5) We were highest by 10 lakhs around in the year 2000.

6) Anybody can do survey ib generally in their families and in their society.

7) During 1960 - 1970. There were 3 - 4 - 5 or more than that childrens per dawoodi bohra family.

8) But now in last 20 years. There are only 2 or less then two children per family.

9) Rarely there are 3 or more than 3 children per family.

10) People of 1930 - 1940 - 1950 - 1960 are already old and senior citizen and or many have died.

11) In our community major proportion of people are already 45+ in age or majority of people are senior citizen.

12) And because of this shortage of population. Young Male - Gent are not getting bride ( Girls) for marriage.

13) On an average against 100 young boy there are 70 to 75 girls.

14) And with this ratio in next 10 years. Male to female ratio will further go down to 100: 60 and in next 20 years it will go down to 100 male : 50 female.

15) Already mid range Mumein boys like financially medium, look wise medium, normal economic background or not from Mumbai, Surat, Indore, Dubai are not finding ( getting) girls for marriage in our own community.

16) Because of this population crisis numbersof unmarried matured male is very high in every territory.

17) Already Mumein Boys and families are searching bride out of our community from Muslims Album of Uttar Pradesh and other region.

18) This has pose great threat in our own community.

19) Main reason of children are not born in our community is that costing of born and brought up of 1 Bohri ( Mumein) is equal to 4 to 5 other Muslim children.
Education Costing
Medical Costing
Living Standard Costing
House Rate Costing
Social Culture Costing
Belief Costing
Clothing cost
And most importantly
House Rate Black Market rates in Dawoodi Bohra Areas, Mohallas and Building and society.

20) Due to Black Market House rates Bohras can't purchase big house and that is directly and indirectly affect our family planning.

21) If we degrow with this rate for next 10 years then we will be left with Apx Population of 5.5 to 6.0 lakhs and then in another 10 years we will be left with 4.5 to 5.0 lakhs Mumein on higher side. This is literally an alarming situation. That to on higher and positive side

22) In our community around 50%or more people are senior citizen and every one have to go to the almighty (Allah) one day.
And for any community where its 50% above population is above 50 years means we are in great threat.

23) This situation has pose really very very serious threat to our upcoming generations boys. And it will become very challenging and difficult to find bride for them in our own community.
Already male to female rate is around 100: 70-75 and if we degrow then it may go down till 100:50-55.

24) Already in our community we have started old age homes and this is live example that due to children being not given birth. Alone and single people lives in Old Age Home during their Last phase of their life. Really disturbing situation.

25) Our day to day Expense and social status is so costly that Bohras don't go to Government Hospital, Government School or any other subsidised Expense
And all that directly and directly affects our family planning.

26) If we don't over come with this situation in very near future then be prepared and ready to bring brides from other Muslim Community Albums that too UP and Bihari girl with rate of Nikah ranging from 50K to 2.5 Lakhs
Hope this option remains open or Allah knows what will happen.

27) To overcome this situation we should have centralized policy for
Education Policy
Low cost House Poli
Medical Policy
And other expenses for our childrens. So that we can have proper family planning and proper growth to maintain balance in our community.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 415
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Re: Apprehension of a bohra population decline (Are we the next Parsis ?)

#20

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:26 pm

This is happening in all sectors of population, not just in Dawoodi Bohras. Due to high cost of living and education etc. people are having fewer kids. There was news item recently that China is lifting the ban on 2 kids per family, now they are allowing more kids as population was going down and marriage-able kids were not finding brides or grooms.
We may be facing the same problem but there is no need to sensationalize it by highlighting Dawoodi Bohras.