Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

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Ambassador_Mumbai
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#1

Unread post by Ambassador_Mumbai » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:40 pm

Dear Learned Members on this forum,

Is it true that Dai al Mutlaq in Daur as Satr is Infallible?

Is there any proof for this claim from primary dawat literature?
if yes, can you please provide the references?

Thanks.

kseeker
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#2

Unread post by kseeker » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:13 am

Infallible is a very broad term - If you mean it in the sense that someone who cannot fail then no, absolutely not.. Dai-al-Mutlaq are not infallible.

Ambassador_Mumbai
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#3

Unread post by Ambassador_Mumbai » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:03 pm

kseeker wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:13 am Infallible is a very broad term - If you mean it in the sense that someone who cannot fail then no, absolutely not.. Dai-al-Mutlaq are not infallible.
Thank you for your reply.

What I meant to ask was.

Does he have faculty of Ismah in any limited sense whatsoever. Because as you rightly said that Ismah is a very broad term, and Ismah of Bab al Abwab is also not equivalent to that of an Imam, so does Dai al mutlaq is daur satr has any level of Ismah?

Because mainstream ulemas openly claim complete Ismah for Dai al Mutlaq on every occassion and call him Masoom.

Earlier they use to say Kal Masoom, but that term is also not used anymore.

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#4

Unread post by Humsafar » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:30 pm

Why even care about what the scriptures say? Let's suppose the books say that the Dai is infallible, does it make him so?
One does not need to go far into history to prove that even Imams -- let alone Dais -- were not infallible. Please do your research and don't ask me for evidence.
As for the Dais, look at the last few characters -- 51, 52, two 53s, and a 54. Do you see any trace of infallibility in them? On the contrary they are the most fallible and flawed leaders one could come across. Their failings larger than life.
Infallibility is a made-up concept to keep idle minds busy with pointless discussion. One only needs to use reason, as the Quran keeps admonishing, to know the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#5

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:04 pm

IMHO, isma is related to gunah in the way of God. Not in the worldly administration of dawat.
In this sense, dai is masoom or kal masoom as you wish.
Surely they make mistake in worldly judgements and administration as others have mentioned above, but they do not committ gunah in the way of Allah.

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#6

Unread post by Humsafar » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:50 pm

Kaka Akela wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:04 pm IMHO, isma is related to gunah in the way of God. Not in the worldly administration of dawat.
In this sense, dai is masoom or kal masoom as you wish.
Surely they make mistake in worldly judgements and administration as others have mentioned above, but they do not committ gunah in the way of Allah.
Personal opinion doesn't count. In any case, how can you be sure they have NOT committed gunah in the way Allah? Also please explain what do you mean by "gunah in the way of Allah"? To me it seems another airy-fairy concept.

Ambassador_Mumbai
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#7

Unread post by Ambassador_Mumbai » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm

Humsafar wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:30 pm Why even care about what the scriptures say? Let's suppose the books say that the Dai is infallible, does it make him so?
One does not need to go far into history to prove that even Imams -- let alone Dais -- were not infallible. Please do your research and don't ask me for evidence.

As for the Dais, look at the last few characters -- 51, 52, two 53s, and a 54. Do you see any trace of infallibility in them? On the contrary they are the most fallible and flawed leaders one could come across. Their failings larger than life.
Infallibility is a made-up concept to keep idle minds busy with pointless discussion. One only needs to use reason, as the Quran keeps admonishing, to know the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
"Why even care about what the scriptures say? Let's suppose the books say that the Dai is infallible, does it make him so? "

So that the claims of current dispensation can be refuted in a proper academic theological way.

"One does not need to go far into history to prove that even Imams -- let alone Dais -- were not infallible. Please do your research and don't ask me for evidence."

Without evidence your claim holds no water as per theology, it's your choice whether you want to back your claims with evidence or not. But if you would, there might be hope for guidance to those who may come here looking for one with objective mindset.

"As for the Dais, look at the last few characters -- 51, 52, two 53s, and a 54. Do you see any trace of infallibility in them? On the contrary they are the most fallible and flawed leaders one could come across. Their failings larger than life."

"Infallibility is a made-up concept to keep idle minds busy with pointless discussion. One only needs to use reason, as the Quran keeps admonishing, to know the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

It is a made up concept if you do not understand or believe in the institution of Imamat.
by the way institution of Imamat is extensively proved through Quranic references..

Ambassador_Mumbai
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#8

Unread post by Ambassador_Mumbai » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:54 pm

Kaka Akela wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:04 pm IMHO, isma is related to gunah in the way of God. Not in the worldly administration of dawat.
In this sense, dai is masoom or kal masoom as you wish.
Surely they make mistake in worldly judgements and administration as others have mentioned above, but they do not committ gunah in the way of Allah.
Dear Kaka Akela,

Please keep your personal opinions to your own self, you are no alim by your own admission.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#9

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:58 pm

You show your small mindedness by rejecting opinions that is not in your favor or to your liking.
This is a public Forum and i have a right to express my opinion whether you like it or not.

AbdeYamani
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#10

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:41 pm

.

Rashida Behnsaheba
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:53 pm

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#11

Unread post by Rashida Behnsaheba » Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:23 pm

Baad al Salaam al Jameel
Mumineen Dawoodi Bohras

Aap sagla si guzarish karoo choo ke har chez na usool ane Qaida huway che. Qanoon na mutabiq amal deen ane duniya beway ma karwo pare chey. Nahee tu duniya ma jail and Akhirah ma Jahannam. Mukhtasar - Je Ismaili Dawoodi aqida ne na manto huee te ne A forum par bahss karwa ne ijazat na Aapo. Fuzool lugoo waqt barbad kare chey te sath topic ghalat bahas ma phnsi ne lambaan thee jaee che.

Aqaid ni baat ma puta no opinion iblis ye didu hatu ane ye Abu Hanifa ni tradition chay. Ahl al Bayt (AS) si Je Bayaan Ayo chey ane Doaat ye Je Kutb e Dawat ma likho chey ye sadiyoo si imani dawat na farzando follow kari rahya chey.

Haway Ismah nu Sawaal kido - tu mukhtasar ma em kehwo baja che ke Nabi, Wasi and Imam Masum huway chey ahna opar Tamam shia kutub muttafiq chay. Ismaili and Ithna Ashari.

Tayyab Imam (AS) ni Dawat na farzando ni hidayat khatir 5ma Dai syedna Ali b moula al Waleed ye jaanfishani kari ne "Taaj Ul Aqaid" Kitaab shaan si likhi ane Mumin ne ek ek aqida ni marifat karawi. Koe aqida app ye muko nahe. Ahma taqriban 100 Aqaid nihat shaan si bayaan kida. Islam ane Iman na Aqaid ma si koee aqida ne awnaar zaman waste na muka.
Aap Zahur ane Satr beway ni barakaat ne hasil kidi hati. Imam uz Zaman na Amr si Kitaab ne likha ta ke koee bhi mukhalif hujjat kare tu Saheb e dawat ye amr si jawaab na apnaar batil shikan jawaab api sake. Ghani Zakheem kitaab likhi. Magar ahma koee jaga em na farmayu ke Satar ma Dai masum huey chey. Aa tu 51 wa bawaji ye sagla Ulama ne bolti band karwa khatir mulla ane shaikh ne kitaboo khangali ne ek chaploos Luqmanji na risala ma si nikaloo ke Dai "Kal MasooM" che. Deen na Aqaid Mulla ne shaikh ni tafsir si bayaan nathi thata. Shariat na ahkaam Nabi Bayaan Kari gaya ane Wasi ye Ahni Marifat karawi. Haway Je ahma izafat kare tu sagla samjhi sake che ke nabuwat ane imamat na dawedaar bhi ghana thaya. quote][/quote]

Mara sasrajisaheb Baite Zaini na mahuta sardaar hata pan khara shakhs hata. Em farmaota ke shoro ma court ma 51 wa saheb ni court ma zabani thee tu ahma kahiyu ke kal masum ane pachii thoora arsa baad masoom bani gaya.
Haway Apni Qaom ne Imam uz Zaman ni so zarurat. Agar ye Padhaarse tu Pachi Mufaddal moula ni dukaan band thase - ziyafat, najwa, saglo Imam and ahna farzando na pase Jase. Tu Imam si door karwa nu har hela Aa Saify mahal na safeed kapra pehnwa wala kare chey.

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#12

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:22 am

Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm So that the claims of current dispensation can be refuted in a proper academic theological way.
Fine for the academically minded that refutation might be important. From my limited reading I can say that Dai ul Mutlaq is not infallible. But again, the point is do the mafia clergy care what is theologically correct? Do Bohras care? The community is turned into a circus, theology is being invented on the fly.

Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm Without evidence your claim holds no water as per theology, it's your choice whether you want to back your claims with evidence or not. But if you would, there might be hope for guidance to those who may come here looking for one with objective mindset.
I do not have the time or the inclination to go into it again. Those interested can look up previous threads where myself and more erudite members have discussed the subject.
Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm It is a made up concept if you do not understand or believe in the institution of Imamat.
by the way institution of Imamat is extensively proved through Quranic references..
Right, it's a matter of belief. But from the point of reason to accord anyone infallibility doesn't make sense. Humans are flawed, no matter how exalted. Nobody is perfect, even in terms of faith.

Ambassador_Mumbai
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:47 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#13

Unread post by Ambassador_Mumbai » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:10 pm

Humsafar wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:22 am
Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm So that the claims of current dispensation can be refuted in a proper academic theological way.
Fine for the academically minded that refutation might be important. From my limited reading I can say that Dai ul Mutlaq is not infallible. But again, the point is do the mafia clergy care what is theologically correct? Do Bohras care? The community is turned into a circus, theology is being invented on the fly.

Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm Without evidence your claim holds no water as per theology, it's your choice whether you want to back your claims with evidence or not. But if you would, there might be hope for guidance to those who may come here looking for one with objective mindset.
I do not have the time or the inclination to go into it again. Those interested can look up previous threads where myself and more erudite members have discussed the subject.
Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm It is a made up concept if you do not understand or believe in the institution of Imamat.
by the way institution of Imamat is extensively proved through Quranic references..
Right, it's a matter of belief. But from the point of reason to accord anyone infallibility doesn't make sense. Humans are flawed, no matter how exalted. Nobody is perfect, even in terms of faith.
On a lighter note, with all due respect, you Biradar and SBM are in a way mafia clergy on this Forum.. :-)

TalibBhai
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#14

Unread post by TalibBhai » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:51 pm

putting some thing in the book is not so hard these days especially when all the books are just in your possesion, suppose some jamiya idiot reads this thread and tomorrow decides to add some thing in the book which only jamiya possesses, who is going to stop them.

normal bohras are too stupid to understand that these things can be added in the book.

Rashida Behnsaheba
Posts: 18
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Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#15

Unread post by Rashida Behnsaheba » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:07 pm

Afsus Aa Waat Par Thaey Chey Ke DB Progressive Website Par Ismaili Tayyabi Aqaid par Tanqid ane Bahass Karnar Ahwa Lugu Chey Je Dawat Ni Kitaboo Tu Door Ni Waat basic Aqaid ni details pan nathi janta.

Progressive movement Ibtida ma Dawat Na Ulama si guidance leta. Burhanpur Dargah Case ane Chanda Bhai Galla Case Ne Agar Aaje Koee Parhse tu Dawoodi Bohra History and Aqaid si Ahne Ghani malumaat milse. Kem ke sagla Ulama case ma shamil hata ane arguments religious points par thatee.

Aaj halat kharaab che. roshan khiyaal ni jamaat na bara ma miansaheb Abdeali Madaarwala ye bayaan ma kaho hatu ke ye logu Aqida par amal karnaar chey magar Udaipur no haal barbaad chey. Lucknow si shia na molvi ne bolawi muharram kare chey. Kala kapra Bani Abbas Na libaas pahne chey. Miabhai jewo haal che. Jamea si 2 ustaad Udaipur jaee was magar su thayu ? Bechara bani ne rahya. karan ke lugo ye Aa misal treatment kido ke tamaro kaam mayyat ni namaz, misaq, nikah and masjid ma namaz ane bayaan cheh. baqi hamne jemarzi ma awse karisoo.

Eyj misal yaha zabardasti ni waat karnaar lugu ni bhar maar chey. Jamea and Badri Mahal na 2 - 3 lugu pan active che. Tahir Fakhruddin Na agent bhi ahnu baju bajaway chey. Wahabi balao pan Zahar ghule Che ane suna par suhaga alif be ni khabar nathi ane comments karnaar har topic ma bakwaas kare chey. Movement ni Maut nu Aa saglu ahtimaam che. Jo agar rules huta ke faqat ilm ane daleel si waat thase tu Aaje Asar nazar Aaotu. Pan educated bhi message board par visit karwo pasand nathi karta. Aa website chalaonaar sagla ghoor karjo. Tamara waqt, ane raqam zaya kem thaee che.

Dawat ni Kutub na makhtutaat Duniya ni Ghani Universities ane liberaries ma alag alag saal ma likha huwa mujud chey. Cairo and Labanon si pan published thae chuka chy. Ahma add karwo possible nathi.

TalibBhai
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#16

Unread post by TalibBhai » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:07 am

Rashida Behnsaheba wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:07 pm Afsus Aa Waat Par Thaey Chey Ke DB Progressive Website Par Ismaili Tayyabi Aqaid par Tanqid ane Bahass Karnar Ahwa Lugu Chey Je Dawat Ni Kitaboo Tu Door Ni Waat basic Aqaid ni details pan nathi janta.

Progressive movement Ibtida ma Dawat Na Ulama si guidance leta. Burhanpur Dargah Case ane Chanda Bhai Galla Case Ne Agar Aaje Koee Parhse tu Dawoodi Bohra History and Aqaid si Ahne Ghani malumaat milse. Kem ke sagla Ulama case ma shamil hata ane arguments religious points par thatee.

Aaj halat kharaab che. roshan khiyaal ni jamaat na bara ma miansaheb Abdeali Madaarwala ye bayaan ma kaho hatu ke ye logu Aqida par amal karnaar chey magar Udaipur no haal barbaad chey. Lucknow si shia na molvi ne bolawi muharram kare chey. Kala kapra Bani Abbas Na libaas pahne chey. Miabhai jewo haal che. Jamea si 2 ustaad Udaipur jaee was magar su thayu ? Bechara bani ne rahya. karan ke lugo ye Aa misal treatment kido ke tamaro kaam mayyat ni namaz, misaq, nikah and masjid ma namaz ane bayaan cheh. baqi hamne jemarzi ma awse karisoo.

Eyj misal yaha zabardasti ni waat karnaar lugu ni bhar maar chey. Jamea and Badri Mahal na 2 - 3 lugu pan active che. Tahir Fakhruddin Na agent bhi ahnu baju bajaway chey. Wahabi balao pan Zahar ghule Che ane suna par suhaga alif be ni khabar nathi ane comments karnaar har topic ma bakwaas kare chey. Movement ni Maut nu Aa saglu ahtimaam che. Jo agar rules huta ke faqat ilm ane daleel si waat thase tu Aaje Asar nazar Aaotu. Pan educated bhi message board par visit karwo pasand nathi karta. Aa website chalaonaar sagla ghoor karjo. Tamara waqt, ane raqam zaya kem thaee che.

Dawat ni Kutub na makhtutaat Duniya ni Ghani Universities ane liberaries ma alag alag saal ma likha huwa mujud chey. Cairo and Labanon si pan published thae chuka chy. Ahma add karwo possible nathi.

Rashida khala....

dawat thi har saal ghana risala publish thai che, ane ehwa risala maa kai pun add kari sakay che.... khala ji jara dimaag thi wicharo je logo Quran ne tabdil kari sake che ehwa loko maate ek risala tabdil karwu kitni mohti waat che.

TalibBhai
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#17

Unread post by TalibBhai » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:09 am

btw books which are in Universities are not recognized by dawat because they say the books which we have are right every thing else is wrong or manipulated, go and ask to any amil.

Rashida Behnsaheba
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:53 pm

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#18

Unread post by Rashida Behnsaheba » Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:05 am

"Deen Si Qabal Adab Deen Chey."
Har Ek Nu Ehteraam wajib chey
Dawat Ni Kutub Je Zahur ane Satr Ma Duaat Ye Likhi, Ahno text ekaj che chahe IIS London na nuskha huee ya Surat Jamea na ya University of LA na ya Sanaa University na ya Cairo, Qom, Gemany, UK ni libreries na.

51wa bawaji, 52 wa mamaji ane 53 wa (ahne su kahoo samajh nathi parti) na rasail chokrao likhi rahya chey. Je marzi aye likhe. Ismaili studies na experts na nazdik ahni ahmiyyat nathi.
Beji ahm waat
Apas ma ek beja opar tanqid ya zalil karwa si kaee hasil nathi. Asal ma soti Qaom ne Jagawa waste sagla ne apas ma mili ne ek block ane network banawa ni zarurat chay. Ahna par ghoor karjo




















Risala ma tu ye lugo man si je chahe likhi sake chay pan ahne manwawala faqat dawodi bohra cheen

Humsafar
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#19

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:35 am

Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:10 pm On a lighter note, with all due respect, you Biradar and SBM are in a way mafia clergy on this Forum.. :-)
Would you care to explain?

SBM
Posts: 6467
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#20

Unread post by SBM » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:56 am

Humsafar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:35 am
Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:10 pm On a lighter note, with all due respect, you Biradar and SBM are in a way mafia clergy on this Forum.. :-)
Would you care to explain?
I donot think any response coming from Ambassador Hotel in Mumbai :D

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#21

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:08 am

Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm
Humsafar wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:30 pm Why even care about what the scriptures say? Let's suppose the books say that the Dai is infallible, does it make him so?
One does not need to go far into history to prove that even Imams -- let alone Dais -- were not infallible. Please do your research and don't ask me for evidence.

As for the Dais, look at the last few characters -- 51, 52, two 53s, and a 54. Do you see any trace of infallibility in them? On the contrary they are the most fallible and flawed leaders one could come across. Their failings larger than life.
Infallibility is a made-up concept to keep idle minds busy with pointless discussion. One only needs to use reason, as the Quran keeps admonishing, to know the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
"Why even care about what the scriptures say? Let's suppose the books say that the Dai is infallible, does it make him so? "

So that the claims of current dispensation can be refuted in a proper academic theological way.

"One does not need to go far into history to prove that even Imams -- let alone Dais -- were not infallible. Please do your research and don't ask me for evidence."

Without evidence your claim holds no water as per theology, it's your choice whether you want to back your claims with evidence or not. But if you would, there might be hope for guidance to those who may come here looking for one with objective mindset.

"As for the Dais, look at the last few characters -- 51, 52, two 53s, and a 54. Do you see any trace of infallibility in them? On the contrary they are the most fallible and flawed leaders one could come across. Their failings larger than life."

"Infallibility is a made-up concept to keep idle minds busy with pointless discussion. One only needs to use reason, as the Quran keeps admonishing, to know the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

It is a made up concept if you do not understand or believe in the institution of Imamat.
by the way institution of Imamat is extensively proved through Quranic references..
First thing is that it is not upto Humsafar to prove that the Dai is not fallible. I can claim to be infallible and ask you to prove that I am not. How are you going to do that? You cannot prove a negative. The Dai has to prove that he is infallible. By the way, the Dai is not infallible. Anyone who claims infallibility cannot be infallible. The quality of infallibility is bestowed upon by Allah and only HE can say if someone is infallible or not. The word of Allah is the Quran. There is no mention of the Dai's infallibility in the Quran.

I would love for you to post the ayahs of the Quran that extensively prove the institution of Imamat.

TalibBhai
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#22

Unread post by TalibBhai » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:14 am

which dai ever claimed to be infallible

Like in written format

Rashida Behnsaheba
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:53 pm

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#23

Unread post by Rashida Behnsaheba » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:14 am

Ismah Na Sawaal Jo Mumin Pucha che tu jawaab Aapo choon
Ke Dai hargiz masum nathi, yemen na koee dai ni kitaab ma ye bayaan nathi. agar em huto tu ye sagla laziman bayaan karta
ek mamuli tat punchya luqmanji ye chaplosi kari likhi didu. ehni misal na beja bhi nikli Awose.
Wahabi mumin bani ne Aa website par shia aqaid na khilaf bhuke chay. Aa maloono ne su lewa no ke imam masum che ya nahi. Ahna aqa Yazid ni khuli ma mare, sukaam dawoodi bohra ni website par Awi ne aqida ne bigarwa ni koshish kare chey. Qusoor tu Webmaster nu pan chey, je em kahe ke sagla ne azadi che. tu ehni dalil si waat karoo
ke su yazid ne bhi tamari Website par azadi chey Ke Husain ni misal moula na khilaaf bhunke?
Are nawasib par tu Rasoolullah ane Moula Ali and sagla Imamo ye Lanat zahir ma parhi che. Aa sagla dushmano jahannam ma jae, Ahna saggawala sagla waha milse.
Haway ahm point
51wa bawajisaheb ye Aa aqida ismat e dai ne peda kido ane Naee bani ne aqida na matha ne mundi dedu. Akkha Aalam e iman ma wasnaar ne zahn nashin karayo ke Dai masum huway che. 52wa kakajisaheb ahna karta 10 qadam haji wadhare age, Ei ye Em sagla ni khoopri ma utaroo ke Dai bathroom ma bhi jaee che tu imam ne khabar kari ne ahni raza si jai che.
Ane Aa 53 wa nu su haal, na puchoo, bulta bulta bulti bandh thee jae ane bhuli jae tu pachi jamni bazu daabi bazu jowa lage che, tu Aamilo em samjhawe che ke ilhaam thaee rahyo hatu te si Aap khamosh thaya hata. Aa suni ne baolao moula moula mufaddal moula pukare che.

SBM
Posts: 6467
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#24

Unread post by SBM » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:40 pm

Rashida Ben
Tamey Su Buck buck kari rahaya chau.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#25

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:44 pm

She is doing buck buck alright.
First of all, she is no ben saheba. Any decent or humble real ben saheba will not write bensaheba for herself, she would just sign off as Rashida.
Second of all, calling 51st as Bawajisaheb and calling 52nd as kakaji saheb makes no sense as 52nd would be a bhai not a kakaji.
I know many bensahebas, when they call my home on telephone and i ask who is this they never say i am Rashida bensaheba, they always this is Rashida.
Either she is phony or trying to deceive everyone to gain their respect.
That puts doubt in everything she says about Ismah???

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:15 pm

TalibBhai wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:14 am which dai ever claimed to be infallible

Like in written format
If they haven’t claimed infallibility, then they are fallible. And a fallible person cannot guarantee jannah to anyone since he himself is fallible and his own jannah is not guaranteed. If the dai hasn’t claimed infallibility, then the bohras are bigger morons than originally assumed. Why would you trust a fallible person with your hereafter instead of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (ﷺ)?

AbdeYamani
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#27

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:20 am

Kaka Akela wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:44 pm She is doing buck buck alright.
First of all, she is no ben saheba. Any decent or humble real ben saheba will not write bensaheba for herself, she would just sign off as Rashida.
Second of all, calling 51st as Bawajisaheb and calling 52nd as kakaji saheb makes no sense as 52nd would be a bhai not a kakaji.
I know many bensahebas, when they call my home on telephone and i ask who is this they never say i am Rashida bensaheba, they always this is Rashida.
Either she is phony or trying to deceive everyone to gain their respect.
That puts doubt in everything she says about Ismah???


Are you serious? How does it matter? What matters is this persons postings.. You think anyone here has true identity as their user id? Nobody has a death wish dude..

AbdeYamani
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#28

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:35 am

anajmi wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:08 am
Ambassador_Mumbai wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm

"Why even care about what the scriptures say? Let's suppose the books say that the Dai is infallible, does it make him so? "

So that the claims of current dispensation can be refuted in a proper academic theological way.

"One does not need to go far into history to prove that even Imams -- let alone Dais -- were not infallible. Please do your research and don't ask me for evidence."

Without evidence your claim holds no water as per theology, it's your choice whether you want to back your claims with evidence or not. But if you would, there might be hope for guidance to those who may come here looking for one with objective mindset.

"As for the Dais, look at the last few characters -- 51, 52, two 53s, and a 54. Do you see any trace of infallibility in them? On the contrary they are the most fallible and flawed leaders one could come across. Their failings larger than life."

"Infallibility is a made-up concept to keep idle minds busy with pointless discussion. One only needs to use reason, as the Quran keeps admonishing, to know the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

It is a made up concept if you do not understand or believe in the institution of Imamat.
by the way institution of Imamat is extensively proved through Quranic references..
First thing is that it is not upto Humsafar to prove that the Dai is not fallible. I can claim to be infallible and ask you to prove that I am not. How are you going to do that? You cannot prove a negative. The Dai has to prove that he is infallible. By the way, the Dai is not infallible. Anyone who claims infallibility cannot be infallible. The quality of infallibility is bestowed upon by Allah and only HE can say if someone is infallible or not. The word of Allah is the Quran. There is no mention of the Dai's infallibility in the Quran.

I would love for you to post the ayahs of the Quran that extensively prove the institution of Imamat.
https://www.al-islam.org/shia-rebuts-sa ... ible-masum

SBM
Posts: 6467
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#29

Unread post by SBM » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:05 am

You think anyone here has true identity as their user id?
Mine is True, my initials represent my full name :D

AbdeYamani
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Ismah- Is Dai al Mutlaq in Daur As Satr Infallible?

#30

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:38 pm

SBM wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:05 am
You think anyone here has true identity as their user id?
Mine is True, my initials represent my full name :D
Syedna Burhanuddin Moula?

Why don't you reveal the name and residential address.. Let's see for how long you live after that.