Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
AbdeYamani
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#1

Unread post by AbdeYamani » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:45 pm

Got the following message from a friend of mine, when I sent him a message that was critical of Amils and Kotharis.
Salaam, no point abusing Aamils or kotharis, Najmi Family has been successfully playing this game of hate deflection for a long time, all the mullahs are produced by whom? Under whose authority do they operate? They derive their power from whom? What is the source of their power? DB-Mullahs and their deeds are symptoms of a disease, the root cause is something else.

For 11 yrs they feed and train these special breeds of mullahs from varied regions & backgrounds. These Jameas are apparently centers of piety and purity but within it runs a deep rot a dark world which only those who have experienced are aware of.. those with good character and ikhlas are thrown into the abyss of nonsignificant khidmats while those of questionable and vile character are inducted in the position of influence.

These Mullahs in turn support and promote the policies and ideology of Najmi family at every level and create the ecosystem that feeds their greed and lust.

The common public has virtually zero access to the Bohra Dai, and is believed to be a demigod by the commoners through successful propaganda ran by Jamea Mullah who were fed and groomed by money that was extorted by Bohra themselves.

The current ideology/aqeeda of DB is similar to that of catholic Christians, hence in common Bohra’s mind access to Jannat is very easy, just one drop of tear for Imam Husain(as), hence no one develops the character needed for a revolution or fight against taagutiat(Evil).

Similar to Jesus(S), Imam Husain(as) sacrificed his life for the forgiveness of sins of those specific Dawoodi Bohras who did true wilayat of 51-52-53.
True walayat=qadambosi, deedar, najwa, and tasleem to all firmans of Syedna, if this is done then no matter how vile and sinful you are.. 52 will come in qabar and save you.. precedent is set by misrepresentation of riwayats of black slave of bani riyah, ziyafat of Abu dharr al gaffari, halli deeno illalhub to support the claims
Hence nobody even dares thinking of questioning the Syedna
But Bohras get kicked and mistreated every day by this system and they have to hold someone accountable, so what if they cannot do anything about it.. they can at least whin and complain or at the most get violent once in a few yrs...so they fix their grievances on Mullahs instead of Moula(Syedna)... and direct their hate towards him. Classis case of hate deflection.
But what they do not realize is that Mullah is one of them.. he is at the mercy of Syedna and his family... you see there is nowhere else a Jamea graduate mullah can go for a job, very cleverly the Najmi family has made sure that the graduates of Jamea are not recognized by any university in the world. Which btw is a very easy job if they want to.. but they don't.. they want this Mullah to be dependent on them.. they want him to be vile they want him to be desperate.. because a Mullah like this will never dare to revolt or do anything that would hurt his masters...

The true enemy of the Bohra are not Mullahs but the false ideology that has been sold to them, Bohras like bani Israel are victims of tahreef and tabdil in deen and are under walayat of those whose policies are of Banu Umayyah and Banu Abbas.. Only Allah can give them hidayat..

RedBox
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#2

Unread post by RedBox » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:29 am

Every one knows it and no one can do any thing about it. This show will run like this.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#3

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:12 pm

Hello, I'm Ilham from Indonesia and I'm new here. I have a few questions about this group.

I have studied Dawoodi Bohra for about 2 years, and I am interested in following it. But I found the controversy discussed in this group.
I hope you can explain to me in more detail about this group.

1. First, if the progressive DB separated from Syedna's Dawoodi Bohra, then what is the hierarchy of leadership here? Do you think the dai period is over? Or do you wish there was a different Dai?

2. Second, are traditions such as linasu da'wat, food, clothing, etc., still the same?

3. Third, where can I get books/videos that can teach me how to worship like prayer and other acts of worship?
Previously I was Shia Imamiyah, now I tend to the Ismaili and want to run it.
Is there a whatsapp number for me to inquire directly?

Thank you.

Admin
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#4

Unread post by Admin » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:05 am

Hello Ilham,

Welcome to the Forum. Please read the articles and discussions below. You'll get your answers and more.

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/reform_issues/articles/

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8319

Hope this helps.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#5

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:27 pm

Thanks for the answer, it helped.

But something is less specific. My question is simple and specific.Do the Progressive Bohra Dawoodis now want another Da'i Mutlaq or end the Da'i hierarchy with independent leaders?

Admin
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#6

Unread post by Admin » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:24 am

It doesn't look like you read any of the articles we suggested. If you had, it would be clear to you that progressive Bohras are for the most part demanding "social and administrative" reforms -- which means accountability of funds collected from people, jamat-level democracy (the right to run our own affairs), the end to ex-communication and raza system, the end to the new kind of misaq which makes Bohras slaves to the Syedna. For details on each of these and for the history of the movement please read the articles.

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#7

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:53 pm

In short progressive doesn't know what they want

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#8

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:52 pm

@ ilhamafief94
Admin has given you a lot of good info to read, but has not directly answered
Your question.
Progressive Dawoodi bohras have no objections to the dai-ship, they accept the dai who is rightfully appointed by Nass. Their objection or fight is with the issues under the dai that Admin has mentioned above. Currently, among the Progressives there are some with Mufaddal Saifuddin and some with Taher Fakhruddin as dai.

Mkenya
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#9

Unread post by Mkenya » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:00 pm

ilhamafief94

I am with neither!

I am on this forum just to observe and, sometimes comment, on the dismemberment of what was once a very united community.
The 'naubat' is before the courts figuring out who of the two is the 'nassed' Dai. The verdict will be like the one of a rich widow (community); either way she will be screwed!

Admin
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#10

Unread post by Admin » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:00 pm

Sheikh Ali sadiq wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:53 pm In short progressive doesn't know what they want
You don't have to be snarky. We wanted Ilam to find out for himself, to read and to understand. Reformists' fight was never about the Dai. We never tire of underlining that we accept the institution of the Dai. In the current scenario with the dispute to succession, reformists officially are and will be with the majority of Bohras (this is our understanding). As Kaka Akela has mentioned, there are a few reformists who support Taher Fakhruddin.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#11

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:59 pm

Dear admin, I have read many articles there since one year ago. But I just signed up to become a member now. I understand that the reformers have criticized the Dai a lot since the 51st Dai leadership. But I haven't found the core conclusion of all that.

On the one hand you are separated from Dai, but there are also still admitting it.
Forget about Taher Fakhruddin's followers, they have clearly gone their own way.
It's about the reformers who also don't recognize Taher. If you againts the Dai, who are walayat you with?

My question is very simple. Do the reformers expect the current 53rd Dai or his successor to turn out for the better or do you want to be independent without Dai, with a new organizational structure, or what?

This is a very simple question. This is related to your religious concept.

Thank you, regards.

Admin
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#12

Unread post by Admin » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:11 pm

We are not separated from the Dai. Nor are we against him as an institution. We are against the regime, the administration, the system which he and his family have created to trap and exploit Bohras. Please read the articles again, and don't expect anyone to spoonfeed you. Also, we are not here clarify your every misconception.

ajamali
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#13

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:51 pm

That’s the funniest answer I have heard….. you are not against the “dai”- the one who runs a blatant con, does no real good, cozies up to the Muslim killer, who cuts up little girls, goes around encouraging wailing lessons for little kids, encourages women to limit themselves to the study of home science, encourages people to lick plates …. Oh did I mention, encourages cutting of the genitalia of little girls….. you are not against that person - you are just against the regime and the administration…just the poor boys his institution has indoctrinated to think of him as God and do his every bidding…. Just them…not HIM…He is innocent in all this….
Last edited by ajamali on Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ajamali
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#14

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:59 pm

No no not only are you not against him, you are not separated from him….Oh boy….

ajamali
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#15

Unread post by ajamali » Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:22 pm

You sicken me Admin….If you are going to take a stand against the dai, take an EFFing stand against all of them…. We know how you already disparage SMB and STF…. Why suddenly go soft on SMS….GEEZ are you starstruck?!!!

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#16

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:35 am

In short progressive doesn't know what they want

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#17

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:38 am

If I was the progressive leader I would say the current dai position is not legitimate because they don't follow the norms of Fatemi dawat.

We want to abolish current family status as DAI

we want penal of neutral scholars who should elect a new DAI who will be DAI nijaam until the Imam returns. he will just have administration powers to keep the community running. misaq will be just for Imam, dai can be replaced by 5 or 10 years of time period.

Admin
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#18

Unread post by Admin » Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 am

ajamali wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:51 pm That’s the funniest answer I have heard….. you are not against the “dai”- the one who runs a blatant con, does no real good, cozies up to the Muslim killer, who cuts up little girls, goes around encouraging wailing lessons for little kids, encourages women to limit themselves to the study of home science, encourages people to lick plates …. Oh did I mention, encourages cutting of the genitalia of little girls….. you are not against that person - you are just against the regime and the administration…just the poor boys his institution has indoctrinated to think of him as God and do his every bidding…. Just them…not HIM…He is innocent in all this….
Please stop hyperventilating! Read carefully, we said "we are not against the Dai as an institution". Which means, let us clarify, that we accept the system of the Daiship (with all its flaws) but have problems with the incumbent. As for the evils of Mufaddal Saifuddin's regime or, for that matter, of his father's and grandfather's, you are in no position to lecture us. You and your Qutbi ilk continue to idol-worship Burhanuddin Maula and Taher Saifuddin Aqa -- the two founders of this evil empire. Mufaddal Saifuddin is taking their pernicious legacy to great heights, or lows rather. And you in fact would have continued to worship Mufaddal too if there was no falling out with him in this shameless game of thrones.

Admin
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#19

Unread post by Admin » Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:50 am

Sheikh Ali sadiq wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:38 am If I was the progressive leader I would say the current dai position is not legitimate because they don't follow the norms of Fatemi dawat.

We want to abolish current family status as DAI

we want penal of neutral scholars who should elect a new DAI who will be DAI nijaam until the Imam returns. he will just have administration powers to keep the community running. misaq will be just for Imam, dai can be replaced by 5 or 10 years of time period.
Sure, we think reformists would be open to discuss these matters.

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#20

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:48 am

Yes, you may want to do all that but the legendary line comes to mind, " who shall tie the bell".?
You even collectively are powerless. Dai has absolute power. Your selected panel of olema are all a product of same jameas that cowtow to Dai's whims. Besides look what happened on the death of Rasulullah S A, a shura (an appointed panel) elected the 3 khalifas. Without Imam uz Zamaan's ilham and guidance in selection, the position of Dai would have no meaning.
Think before you start typing anything that comes to your mind.

Mkenya
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#21

Unread post by Mkenya » Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:18 pm

ilhamafief94: Is your Ilham (inspiration) enlightened now!

ajamali
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#22

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:10 pm

Admin wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 am
ajamali wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:51 pm That’s the funniest answer I have heard….. you are not against the “dai”- the one who runs a blatant con, does no real good, cozies up to the Muslim killer, who cuts up little girls, goes around encouraging wailing lessons for little kids, encourages women to limit themselves to the study of home science, encourages people to lick plates …. Oh did I mention, encourages cutting of the genitalia of little girls….. you are not against that person - you are just against the regime and the administration…just the poor boys his institution has indoctrinated to think of him as God and do his every bidding…. Just them…not HIM…He is innocent in all this….
Please stop hyperventilating! Read carefully, we said "we are not against the Dai as an institution". Which means, let us clarify, that we accept the system of the Daiship (with all its flaws) but have problems with the incumbent. As for the evils of Mufaddal Saifuddin's regime or, for that matter, of his father's and grandfather's, you are in no position to lecture us. You and your Qutbi ilk continue to idol-worship Burhanuddin Maula and Taher Saifuddin Aqa -- the two founders of this evil empire. Mufaddal Saifuddin is taking their pernicious legacy to great heights, or lows rather. And you in fact would have continued to worship Mufaddal too if there was no falling out with him in this shameless game of thrones.
Oh let’s see… as it stands, the dai as an institution does mean that absolute power is vested in him…. Olema blah blah blah…. I don’t think you guys know what you want. That sounded like the most half baked plan ever….

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#23

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:33 am

So people are still thinking that Imam is appointing the same family person from last 300 years.

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#24

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:35 am

Admin wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 am
ajamali wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:51 pm That’s the funniest answer I have heard….. you are not against the “dai”- the one who runs a blatant con, does no real good, cozies up to the Muslim killer, who cuts up little girls, goes around encouraging wailing lessons for little kids, encourages women to limit themselves to the study of home science, encourages people to lick plates …. Oh did I mention, encourages cutting of the genitalia of little girls….. you are not against that person - you are just against the regime and the administration…just the poor boys his institution has indoctrinated to think of him as God and do his every bidding…. Just them…not HIM…He is innocent in all this….
Please stop hyperventilating! Read carefully, we said "we are not against the Dai as an institution". Which means, let us clarify, that we accept the system of the Daiship (with all its flaws) but have problems with the incumbent. As for the evils of Mufaddal Saifuddin's regime or, for that matter, of his father's and grandfather's, you are in no position to lecture us. You and your Qutbi ilk continue to idol-worship Burhanuddin Maula and Taher Saifuddin Aqa -- the two founders of this evil empire. Mufaddal Saifuddin is taking their pernicious legacy to great heights, or lows rather. And you in fact would have continued to worship Mufaddal too if there was no falling out with him in this shameless game of thrones.
you have a valid point here. KQ clan would have continued for more 500 years if their demands were met with MS.

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna. Ajamali, Sheikh Ali Sadiq

#25

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:36 am

Admin says we are with Dai on certain note others want Dai replacement. I see a lot of difference of opinion here. Are you all Bohra reformers? Are the Bohra reformers also divided into camps with different goals?

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#26

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:17 pm

So how? I am an Imami Shia who wants to move to Dawoodi Bohra. Maybe with the reformers. How do I get recognized? Should I do the misaq and to whom?

Then in the Imamiyah Shia there are several ways of salah, between Marja and other there are slight differences.
Then what about in the middle of Bohra itself? I saw many salah videos of Alavi Bohra on youtube. Is Dawoodi Bohra's salah method exactly the same?

ilhamafief94
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Protest Against Mufaddal's Visit

#27

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:24 pm

Hello, I am an Imami Shia who wants to move to Dawoodi Bohra. Maybe with the reformers. How do I get recognized? Should I do the misaq and to whom?

Then in the Imamiyah Shia there are several ways of salah, between Marja and other there are slight differences.
Then what about in the middle of Bohra itself? I saw many salah videos of Alavi Bohra on youtube. Is Dawoodi Bohra's salah method exactly the same?

Kaka Akela
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: Protest Against Mufaddal's Visit

#28

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:44 pm

ilhamafief94:
If you want to switch from imami shia to Dawoodi bohra shia you need a personal mentor or guide, just asking a whole bunch of questions here will not get you there. I have no idea what idea what country or coty you live in, please go to the local bohra masjid and talk to the imam to assign you a person who will be your mentor. After a few months when you have learned enough then the imam will take your misaq. Now there a couple of books in english giving the history of dawoodi bohra religion and the history of all 53 dai (s). Please read those as well, and you will be as good as any bohra in the world. Asking bunch of questions will get you varied answers and that will confuse more and may even turn you off. Good luck

kseeker
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:01 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#29

Unread post by kseeker » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:00 am

ajamali wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:10 pm
Admin wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 am

Please stop hyperventilating! Read carefully, we said "we are not against the Dai as an institution". Which means, let us clarify, that we accept the system of the Daiship (with all its flaws) but have problems with the incumbent. As for the evils of Mufaddal Saifuddin's regime or, for that matter, of his father's and grandfather's, you are in no position to lecture us. You and your Qutbi ilk continue to idol-worship Burhanuddin Maula and Taher Saifuddin Aqa -- the two founders of this evil empire. Mufaddal Saifuddin is taking their pernicious legacy to great heights, or lows rather. And you in fact would have continued to worship Mufaddal too if there was no falling out with him in this shameless game of thrones.
Oh let’s see… as it stands, the dai as an institution does mean that absolute power is vested in him…. Olema blah blah blah…. I don’t think you guys know what you want. That sounded like the most half baked plan ever….
No it does not - that is a creation of the 51st Dai.. No book I have read states such a thing. If you have, please share the reference.
In the absence of the Imaam, the Dai holds the highest rank.. it does not mean he has the full authority of the Imaam.

This is not to take away respect from the position of the Dai.. Our Dais have done great things..
However, TS, MB and MS/KQ/TF are not Dais...

I personally don't agree with many of the progressive demands and expectations with regards to the evolution of our jamaat... we are not a democracy neither is the system based purely on meritocracy.. there is a form of imperialism and hierarchy which trumps all notions republics hold.. we are not a republic either... so trying to 'change' or 'evolve' is in some essence, un-islamic... but without doubth, the group of people mentioned above are purely and unquestionably unislamic.

guy_sam2005
Posts: 836
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

Re: Mullahs, the scapegoats of Syedna.

#30

Unread post by guy_sam2005 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:03 am

Admin wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 am
ajamali wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:51 pm That’s the funniest answer I have heard….. you are not against the “dai”- the one who runs a blatant con, does no real good, cozies up to the Muslim killer, who cuts up little girls, goes around encouraging wailing lessons for little kids, encourages women to limit themselves to the study of home science, encourages people to lick plates …. Oh did I mention, encourages cutting of the genitalia of little girls….. you are not against that person - you are just against the regime and the administration…just the poor boys his institution has indoctrinated to think of him as God and do his every bidding…. Just them…not HIM…He is innocent in all this….
Please stop hyperventilating! Read carefully, we said "we are not against the Dai as an institution". Which means, let us clarify, that we accept the system of the Daiship (with all its flaws) but have problems with the incumbent. As for the evils of Mufaddal Saifuddin's regime or, for that matter, of his father's and grandfather's, you are in no position to lecture us. You and your Qutbi ilk continue to idol-worship Burhanuddin Maula and Taher Saifuddin Aqa -- the two founders of this evil empire. Mufaddal Saifuddin is taking their pernicious legacy to great heights, or lows rather. And you in fact would have continued to worship Mufaddal too if there was no falling out with him in this shameless game of thrones.
In this game of thrones what role do you play????littlefinger would suit most given your ideologies.