where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

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Al Zulfiqar
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where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#1

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:43 pm

who is more important in a muslim's life..? the woman who brought him in the world, nurtured him, fed him, protected him, taught him values and made him/her a mature adult, under whose feet lies our jannat...; or his wife, who becomes his life partner in adulthood and bears his children, supports him and takes care of his house and family?

lest someone misinterprets my query, (i do not wish a theological debate!) the thrust of my obviously rhetorical enquiry is directed towards the ignorant and blissfully innocent bohras, in regards to the present syedna's mother. why no mention of her, why no urus, why no importance to the lady, after all she was his blessed mother and syedna taher saifuddins wife..??!!!

when we have a makbara in london for the aisaheba, which has now become an important place on the itinerary of all bohra pilgrims, and there is a lot of fanfare to observe her urus etc, where is the makbara of the mother of syedna mohd burhanuddin?? what is the reason that a complete veil of darkness has been thrown over her..? its a mystery of gigantic proportions...its as if she never existed..!!!why?

tahir
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#2

Unread post by tahir » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:51 am

when we have a makbara in london for the aisaheba, which has now become an important place on the itinerary of all bohra pilgrims, and there is a lot of fanfare to observe her urus etc, where is the makbara of the mother of syedna mohd burhanuddin??
That shows where bohraism has come in the past 50 years. If the next dai decides to have a pet cat, you can expect a grand tomb for the animal as well. Will you then ask "where is the tomb of 51st dai's pet"?

Your query is actually an answer for "Why are we here"?

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#3

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:15 pm

Respected Br.Tahir,

it seems that the hidden intent behind my question has not been understood.

i am not clamouring for the busaheba's grave..far from it! i am challenging those ignorant fanatics, who claim to know everything concerning our bohras from the sabak's and crap dished out by the hordes who have been indoctrinated and brainwashed in the surat daras, to go out and find the answer!!

when i mentioned a 'rhetorical question', what dos it imply? that i and those who are aware, already know the answer!

but i wish to hear about it first hand from that holier-than-thou brigade, which jumps in here to heap abuses and bully others. please do not make me release the proverbial cat out of the bag as yet.. let us sit back and enjoy the fun because there is a reason why the 'establishment' has deliberately put the syedna's mother under a censorship. if they open that subject it will be a virtual pandora's box, too many and too shocking revelations will jump out!!!! it could lead to the utter end of their evil dynasty.

jamanpasand
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#4

Unread post by jamanpasand » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:29 pm

please do not make me release the proverbial cat out of the bag as yet

Can you explain the rationale for keeping this mystery to yourself?

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#5

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:46 pm

dear br.jp,

i have already explained the reasons... let the baskerville hounds give their justifications first. it will be very interesting to see what, if any, convoluted story they can narrate about why there is no mention anywhere of the syedna's mother, i.e. taher saifuddin's wife. why the total exclusion of her name, urus, and ziyarat from the bohra community.

why hasnt anyone anyone asked this question before...?? by doing this, i wish to raise the awareness levels of our rip van winkle community, to wake them up so they start asking questions. i want that people should go and do research, find out, dig, go to your mullahs, sheikhs, aamils and ask them, 'please, when is the urus of the busaheba? why are we not celebrating it?' etc.

dhoondne se khuda bhi milta hai!

jamanpasand
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#6

Unread post by jamanpasand » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:19 pm

I suspect this mystery have some connection to Udaipur. Long shot????

accountability
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#7

Unread post by accountability » Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:59 am

Dear Al Zulfiqar

Suspence is not good for my health. We are quiet inquisite creatures. We want to know the truth.

JP elobrate on your theory.

Kaka Akela
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#8

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:28 am

I may be way off in solving this mystery but methinks her name was also Amatullah Aaisaheba and she is buried within the big compound of Masjidul Moazzam in Surat near the mazaar of Syedna abdeali Saifuddin.As time passes the ladies are and will be forgotten including the one buried in London masjid.
i have seen pictures of current dai doing ziarat of his mother many times.

bohraji
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#9

Unread post by bohraji » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:38 am

Correct me if I am wrong,but I remember a fellow bohra pilgrim from Udaipur,I met in Karbala.He told us that Sayedna really lokes the city of Udaipur.And the gentleman also said that Sayednas beloved mother is buried there as well.
Waiting for responses.

bohraji
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#10

Unread post by bohraji » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:40 am

I meant "likes" not "lokes"

tahir
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#11

Unread post by tahir » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:48 pm

May be the present dai has a secret brother or may be his father is not the one we think. C'mon Zulfiqar ! Reveal it soon. Don't wait for the 'holier-than-thou brigade' to chip in. Almost all of them fled the board after we graduated to flogging 'camel race' and 'interest' horses from of the traditional 'salam' and 'kadam bosi' ones.

tahir
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#12

Unread post by tahir » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:07 pm

Originally posted by tahir:
horses from of the traditional
Delete 'of'

jamanpasand
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#13

Unread post by jamanpasand » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:22 pm

JP elobrate on your theory.

Syeda Burhanuddin was born on the date when late syedna Tahir Saifuddin was sworn in as dai, which means Syedna Tahir Saifudin’s first marriage was before he became dai.

Again Syedna Burhanuddin started his early education in Udaipur at the age of three under the guidance of Udaipuri Ustads and his mother died when he was only five. This means that his mother must have strong Udaipuri connections and probably lived in Udaipur during that period.

Again, if you remember this mysterious question was also raised by
S. Insaf some time back on this board but he felt short of revealing the mystery.

Therefore all indicators suggest that something is buried in Rajisthan deserts.

bohraji
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#14

Unread post by bohraji » Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:23 pm

Why so much debate,on an issue which seems so petty?
If there is something else then I think it is appropiate for it to come on the board asap.So stop beating round the bush and let the topic be debated on by revealing any "secrets" that might be.Or it is better to close it and debate on something more worthwhile!

S. Insaf
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#15

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:37 pm

Since my name has been mentioned let me tell you that Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb's mother's body was buried in Kubba in Surat and one can still find that there. Last I had visited there was on 5th Feb. 2004. Her name was Husaina I-Saheba.

accountability
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#16

Unread post by accountability » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:42 am

Again, if you remember this mysterious question was also raised by
S. Insaf some time back on this board but he felt short of revealing the mystery.
Brother Insaf, if you do know something, then please enlighten us.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#17

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:22 am

Ok, I see that the impatience has grown to such an extent that now people have started thinking that maybe its all nonsense, a trivial issue etc!

Let me assure my dear brothers that I was not deriving any perverse pleasure in prolonging the suspense. I was simply waiting to see what the reaction would be from the know-all fanatics, who usually jump in swinging and hacking in blind fury at anything in sight, like the proverbial bull in a china shop!

Yet, very strangely, even they have decided to maintain a discreet silence. Their 'silence is eloquent', is it not? Havent you wondered why?
Some of you have commented that the pregnant silence is too heavy a burden for them to carry and can actually affect their health!!

Let me wade in, but I warn you, this will unleash a storm that will be memorable. It may not be palatable to most but the truth is often more shocking than fiction.

The present syedna's mother was the first wife of his father, taher saifuddin. she was the daughter of taher saifuddin's mamaji, thus his first cousin. this uncle of the ex-syedna was also amongst one of his first mentors and spiritual advisors. in knowledge he was more senior than ts and counted amongst the most respected ulema of those days.

taher saifuddin, although gotten married to this chaste lady, had actually always had a fervent longing for his bhabhi, the wife of one of his brothers from very young days. unfortunately for him, she was pledged to his brother. her marriage to taher saifuddin's brother wasn't a very happy one, as he took ill soon after and his condition never improved. he was always unwell and frequently bed-ridden, his condition progressively but gradually worsened.

for those in the know, after taher saifuddin (ts) came to the gaadi, initially he was not such a despot as he later became. but a combination of many factors; his undoubted scholarly genius, his superb administrative skills, his command over arabic and current affairs, his masterful sway over the masses, his charismatic personality and the ease and confidence with which he flawlessly mingled with the highest of the land, not only in india but everywhere he went, impressed even his most severest critics. he had some amazing god-given gifts. he was a great poet and writer, composed many original qasida's and treatises on islam, he is also credited with having unearthed many ziyarats of our fatimid saheba's, forgotten in the sands of time.

there is no denying his genius, but all this and the love and adulation of the qoum and others, soon started inflating his ego. the burhaniya school trust affair and the temerity of the administration there to question and counter him, albeit over a minor issue at the time, soon snowballed into a major battle. their 'impudence'in his eyes, was a rebellion he had to firmly put down, to assert his authority and stamp his will over the bohras, so that no one would ever dare to raise his head again.

at the peak of his prowess and his powers, he felt he ruled the world! against this backdrop, whilst his ailing brother lay in bed, ts shamelessly carried on a clandestine affair with his sis-in-law. initially very discreetly, but as time passed and as he consolidated his position and fame more and more, he became increasingly reckless. obviously his wife came to know, as every wife does. her worst suspicions were confirmed when he blatantly carried on with his bhabhi. all her objections and disapproval were summarily dismissed.

as is bound to happen, soon his uncle who was also his sasraji, urgently sought to prevent this bad behaviour by way of dialogue, pressure etc. but drunk with power and his ego and moreover his unrequitted lust, ts soon turned the tables on his own uncle/father-in-law. he started insulting him privately and publicly, maligning him and spreading false stories about his own spiritual ustad and his senior.

the smell of something rotten spreads fast and the situation stated getting quite untenable. ts in his desperation, wanted to get married to his bhabhi, but this was impossible as long as his brother was alive. well...your guess is as good as mine, and lo and behold, his miserable brother was soon 'marhum'!

sensing that his long held desires would now soon come to fruition, he commenced preparations to marry this lady, reputed to have been extremely beautiful. but as per the practice of islamic sharia, the unforced assent and wilful agreement of the first wife is neccessary, if she is alive, before a devout muslim may marry a second wife. this 'raza' from the first wife was not forthcoming, although ts did attempt every method to win her approval. when he realised all his arm twisting and pressure tactics werent working, he stooped to having his uncle beaten up, acid was thrown at him and he was humiliated several times in front of his contemporaries.

this is when his ustads from the daras got involved as well, although most reluctant to advise him, as they knew that by now he was in full flow of his tyrannical reign and it might be not only well-nigh impossible to control him, but might actually provoke him to some megalomaniacal actions and push him over the edge! the thrust of their advice was more for keeping the sanctity and continuity of the august office of the 'dai' and the daawate-hadiyah intact, the immoral and reckless behaviour of the syedna notwithstanding. there was a very real danger that the entire edifice could crumble and the bohra community could disintegrate if such news became public.

that is exactly what happened....!! the megalomaniac was so enraged that he determined to accomplish his nefarious mission come what may. once again, u guess what happened next... yes..as you thought. the wife, the present syedna's mother, soon went on to meet her eternal creator..despatched by express post perhaps! the road was clear to marry his sweetheart,....but not before teaching his infernal teachers a lesson they would never forget!!

the forces of evil were unleashed with all the fury at the command of ts. the 4 respected ustad's were maligned, humiliated, tortured, assaulted and finally eliminated, a la the days of yore, in the best traditions of the ancient and not-so-ancient royal intrigues... all the blood, lust, naked greed, ambition, gore and mayhem...!! you all know the pogrom and purge which followed..

and then came the chandabhai galla case and the court cases with sir adamjee pirbhai..!!! such is the story of intrigue and scandal... all this whilst our community blissfully sleeps...

one of the descendants of the ex-sayedna's uncle -- still lives in london, no longer a part of our dawoodi bohra community. he is testimony to all the dirty deeds of the ex-syedna. he has in his possession all the papers with detailed evidences of all that i have just narrated.

i have a detailed booklet with dates, names and actual eye-witness accounts and corroborating proofs of all that occurred from those days.

is it little wonder that today, the urus of the present syedna's mother is not celebrated on a wide-scale, she is not mentioned with fanfare and every attempt is being made in fact to consign her to the dust heap of history? of course her ziyarat is there.. they wont obliterate that...confident that eventually the pages of history will wither away and our slumbering community will never bother. why should they..? they are busy feasting and gossiping, content and secure like frogs in their own little tiny well..the rest of the world is a big bad ogre, stay away from it...only interact as little as possible with it, then retreat back to the safety and comfort zone where everybody lives in a time warp!

i hope this answers the shocking question that i myself raised. if anyone needs any precise details, i will be glad to furnish them.

Kaka Akela
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#18

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:08 am

-------------------------------------------
the forces of evil were unleashed with all the fury at the command of ts. the 4 respected ustad's were maligned, humiliated, tortured, assaulted and finally eliminated, a la the days of yore, in the best traditions of the ancient and not-so-ancient royal intrigues
--------------------------------------------
I am confused by the above statement. Because the 4 ustad were thrown out in this Dai's time not in TS's time???? Are you mixing them up or am I confused.

tahir
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#19

Unread post by tahir » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:46 am

Zulfiqar ,
Thanks a lot for the story. Anyone who knows the dai's family well enough will not be surprised by this revelation. I am however curious to know why have you held the names of TS' brother and the 'bhabhi'.

tahir
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#20

Unread post by tahir » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:48 am

The present syedna's mother was the first wife of his father, taher saifuddin. she was the daughter of taher saifuddin's mamaji, thus his first cousin.

He (taher saifuddin) had some amazing god-given gifts. he was a great poet and writer, composed many original qasida's and treatises on islam.

Here are my 2 anthropological cents ,

One of the reasons Burhanuddin is not as talented as his father may be that he is a product of consanguineous marriage. Inbreeding usually begets dumbwits.

Most of the royal families (including the british) suffer from this ill.

S. Insaf
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#21

Unread post by S. Insaf » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:53 am

Again, if you remember this mysterious question was also raised by S. Insaf some time back on this board but he felt short of revealing the mystery.
I do not know what mystery you are talking about?
Is it why Sayedna Burhanuddin Saheb's wife is worshipped when no one knows where about of his mother?

Zeal
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#22

Unread post by Zeal » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:35 am

Br Zulfiqar ,
I would be glad to know more details/evidences on the above episode.
Also as Tahir pointed out the names of the brother of ts and bhabhi and the names of the four ustads.

Kindly furnish.

Thanks

belief
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#23

Unread post by belief » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:02 am

what a load of rubbish, yu progs are so good at making up fiction !

gaderaas

jamanpasand
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#24

Unread post by jamanpasand » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:05 pm

I do not know what mystery you are talking about?

Br. Insaf

So far we have 52 Dais, which means 52 mothers.

I don’t remember your exact wording but your question did single out the 52nd?

Do bohras know about the other 51 Ziarats?

That was enough to think that you wanted to hear something from the ortho.

Now br. Zulfiqar started in a very similar manner.

accountability
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#25

Unread post by accountability » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:33 pm

Very shocking revelations.I am in total shock. I had thought that power and wealth are the only elements corrupting our religious heirarchy. This has either to be refuted clearly by present administration with proof, otherwise the whole foundation of our religion will be shaken.

accountability
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#26

Unread post by accountability » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:35 pm

Admin: I would also request if someone tries to distract from the subject, he may be blocked so this most serious of the allegation could be sorted out in appropriate manner.

Al Zulfiqar
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#27

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:24 pm

dear bros.,

i did warn beforehand that the answer to the query that i had raised, will not be easy to digest. believe me, when i came into possession of this entire document, i too was extremely shaken, but not too unsurprised when it all finally sunk in.

wherever absolute power exists and is deliberately cultivated and fostered, the sub-cultures of sycophancy, corruption, nepotism, and all the accompanying ills of greed, lust, tyranny, despotism, exploitation and cruelty are bound to creep in. they are all inseperable.

with the present state of our community, where the syedna and his 'royal' family have absolute powers; they are above any moral, religious or even political laws ( with their paid influence and police protection domestically, and internationally with the immunity accorded to their diplomatic passports ) and the systematic but sinister deprivation of our community from any 'real islamic' knowledge; this same situation now prevails. how can anyone be naive enough to pretend that intrigue and skullduggery does not prevail even now at the highest levels?

in answer to all those who have requested further and more precise information, i will have to beg your patience.. i am trying to re-organise my extensive collection of papers, books and articles on islam and bohras. it is difficult to juggle one's piorities in life on a daily basis anyway; business, family, society, health etc. and then something like this means setting aside quite a bit of time. but i promise that as soon as i can, i will revert with precise details. whatever i have contributed now was entirely out of memory.

i am considering posting that entire document on a web link, perhaps someone more technically inclined can advise me how? perhaps i may also not post the entire thing, but just the relevant excerpts. i am reluctant to mention this, but when this document was given to me, it was with the express understanding that i would be sworn to secrecy. the moral dilemma of doing this weighs heavily on my mind, when i try to balance against the larger good.

lest someone is prompted to mock or accuse me of hiding behind the veil of confidentiality, then let me make it clear that this document does exist and that some people still do have a conscience and a vestige of morals. whether my revealing the entire truth will make any difference in the outcome and destiny of our community is a debatable issue. except for those with an open mind, to the rest of those determined to bury their heads in the sand, it will not make an iota of difference.

someone has mentioned that, let the present kothari admin come up with a clear refutation. do you think that they will even bother to acknowledge? because if they do so, then they will be tacitly admitting that their recent past is tainted with immorality and they have blood on their hands!

where i really wonder is....what sort of moral high ground can the present syedna claim, when his father has done grave injustice to his own mother and committed such immoral and reckless acts? this must be the daily prayer resonating in the guilt-ridden halls of their palaces...

"in the name of the daawat, the most beneficial, the most lucrative, the most ignorant and the most meek and at the altar of the most high, o money and power,! i do sacrifice myself, your humble servant, please forgive me!" amen.

Admin
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#28

Unread post by Admin » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:17 pm

Al Zulfiqar,

You're welcome to put your material on this site. We can help you do that. Let us know when you are ready.

Admin

jamanpasand
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#29

Unread post by jamanpasand » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:12 pm

Proper groundwork is essential prior to any sensational disclosure, it adds to the credibility. Good Luck !!!!!

S. Insaf
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Re: where is the ziarat of present syedna's mother? why no

#30

Unread post by S. Insaf » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:35 pm

Dear brother Al Zulfiqar,
Mia Saheb Sayedi Ismail bhaisaheb was Husaina I-saheba's brother and his son Dr. Ahmed Lukmani is in London. My advise is to get your work varified by him. If you want I can give you his address and phone nos.