Mutah

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Mutah

#1

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:13 am

ok lets forget fighting for a while,and talk some thing islaamic.

what do u guess think about mutah? is it allowed for a DB to do mutah?

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#2

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:22 am

ithnaa ashari belives in it...they have two kind of mutah sexual and non sexual.


i know no DB does mutah this days but was it ever allowed in fatemi dawat history?

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mutah

#3

Unread post by Smart » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 am

Why don't you ask this question to your masters? Or is it that you can't ask questions there? Or you are convinced that they don't know any thing?

merchant786
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:50 am

Re: Mutah

#4

Unread post by merchant786 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:51 am

No brother Smart,

He is told by his master "Aaa Saglu Gaib noo Ilam che....Tamare jaanva ni jarurat nathi"

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#5

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:39 am

Smart wrote:Why don't you ask this question to your masters? Or is it that you can't ask questions there? Or you are convinced that they don't know any thing?

well i was expecting some thing stupid from you and u did not surprise me with that non-sense reply :mrgreen: ....but any ways if some body is intelligent on this forum and quite learned about bohra faith he is welcomed to reply my query.

merchant786
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:50 am

Re: Mutah

#6

Unread post by merchant786 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:59 am

Well why are you asking us about something when you need a proof for everything mr Haggu,

According to you Insaf,Zulfikar etc are hatred full Syedna enemies rite?

So r u allowed to take the knowledge from us?

Please take the raza from your local aamil before you do that or else your taxes will increase!!!!!HAHAHAHAHA

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#7

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:06 am

merchant786 wrote:Well why are you asking us about something when you need a proof for everything mr Haggu,

According to you Insaf,Zulfikar etc are hatred full Syedna enemies rite?

So r u allowed to take the knowledge from us?

Please take the raza from your local aamil before you do that or else your taxes will increase!!!!!HAHAHAHAHA

merchant u are not really that businessminded dont you? I am bohri and i know my business very well...guys with just pranks shud stay out of this i am in no mood to talk non sense.


any ways i am still waiting for some intellectual reply.

candela
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mutah

#8

Unread post by candela » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:26 am

haqqun nafs wrote:ok lets forget fighting for a while,and talk some thing islaamic.
haqqun nafs wrote:any ways i am still waiting for some intellectual reply.
Come on everyone, haqqun nafs started this post in the spirit of openly communicating (and *not* fighting). Let's honor a serious inquiry with a serious answer, and perhaps put aside the concept of seeking knowledge from DB amils/sheikhs for another time/thread.

Insha-Allah I'd answer the question if I had some knowledge on the matter.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mutah

#9

Unread post by Smart » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:46 am

merchant u are not really that businessminded dont you? I am bohri and i know my business very well...guys with just pranks shud stay out of this i am in no mood to talk non sense.


any ways i am still waiting for some intellectual reply.
Well, I did not know that you could be serious. you have been ridiculing serious answers here. do you have the credibility for that? IMHO, this is a leading question. Anyway since when have been interested in knowing the views of the reformists seriously. This is obviously a red herring.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#10

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:01 am

candela wrote:
haqqun nafs wrote:ok lets forget fighting for a while,and talk some thing islaamic.
haqqun nafs wrote:any ways i am still waiting for some intellectual reply.
Come on everyone, haqqun nafs started this post in the spirit of openly communicating (and *not* fighting). Let's honor a serious inquiry with a serious answer, and perhaps put aside the concept of seeking knowledge from DB amils/sheikhs for another time/thread.

Insha-Allah I'd answer the question if I had some knowledge on the matter.
thankyou this is called true spirit of seeking knowledge no matter from where it comes.

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#11

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:35 am

Mutah is an unislamic practice introduced to get around prostitution. There is no evidence of this in the sunnah of the prophet.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#12

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:47 am

anajmi wrote:Mutah is an unislamic practice introduced to get around prostitution. There is no evidence of this in the sunnah of the prophet.

lol anajmi


u mean all ithnaa ashari doing haraam? i will suggest you to google and find out more about it then come up with your personal fatwa...by the way Imam Ali performed Mutah,usmaan banned it.better u google and get more details.

porus
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#13

Unread post by porus » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:41 am

faazil bhai Haggun,

ba'ad salaam-e-jammel,

Is not 'mutah' lisaan-e-daawat for urine? Sort of goes well with Haggun, doesn't it? But, does everything you post deserve to be flushed down the toilet?

Dua ni iltimaas. Moula ni umar ta roze qayamat daraaz ane daraaz rahe, aameen.

alaykum salaam.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#14

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:46 am

porus wrote:faazil bhai Haggun,

ba'ad salaam-e-jammel,

Is not 'mutah' lisaan-e-daawat for urine? Sort of goes well with Haggun, doesn't it? But, does everything you post deserve to be flushed down the toilet?

Dua ni iltimaas. Moula ni umar ta roze qayamat daraaz ane daraaz rahe, aameen.

alaykum salaam.

have nothing concrete to contribute? no wonder progressives are not able to develop any strong point or presence coz most are stupid like you.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#15

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:54 am

haqqun nafs wrote:
i am in no mood to talk non sense.

any ways i am still waiting for some intellectual reply.
haggu,

so you admit that most of the time you are talking nonsense, but are not on this occasion? a person like you does not need any mood, talking nonsense comes naturally to you.

and why would you expect that you could get an intelligent reply on this forum and not in your sabaks and taweel sessions? are you acknowledging that there are intellectuals on this forum who have better knowledge of islam and our deen than your money grabbing amils and zaadas? normally you are making fun and using vulgar language against each and every scholar and reformist on this forum and claiming that syedna and his sons and the amils are the best muslims on earth, then why come here and ask questions on religion?

normally we would answer a question like this at length if it came from someone genuinely eager to learn, but knowing your fitnati nature and biased mind, i would respectfully decline and suggest you take your query to your amil and get his response. if you are not satisfied with his explanation, then come back here, quote what he said and then we will clarify.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#16

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:05 pm

Al Zulfiqar wrote:
haqqun nafs wrote:
i am in no mood to talk non sense.

any ways i am still waiting for some intellectual reply.
haggu,

so you admit that most of the time you are talking nonsense, but are not on this occasion? a person like you does not need any mood, talking nonsense comes naturally to you.

and why would you expect that you could get an intelligent reply on this forum and not in your sabaks and taweel sessions? are you acknowledging that there are intellectuals on this forum who have better knowledge of islam and our deen than your money grabbing amils and zaadas? normally you are making fun and using vulgar language against each and every scholar and reformist on this forum and claiming that syedna and his sons and the amils are the best muslims on earth, then why come here and ask questions on religion?

normally we would answer a question like this at length if it came from someone genuinely eager to learn, but knowing your fitnati nature and biased mind, i would respectfully decline and suggest you take your query to your amil and get his response. if you are not satisfied with his explanation, then come back here, quote what he said and then we will clarify.

ok stay out of it...i got ur level of understanding...lemme see if some body else have some solid thing to talk about this sensitive issue.

by the way whole idea of this forum is to create a fitnat i was just trying to make some thing good out of it.

Al Zulfiqar
Posts: 4609
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#17

Unread post by Al Zulfiqar » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:39 pm

haqqun nafs wrote:
lemme see if some body else have some solid thing to talk about this sensitive issue.

by the way whole idea of this forum is to create a fitnat i was just trying to make some thing good out of it.
the day you have something 'solid' to discuss about reforms in the bohra administration, then come back. meanwhile take your query about 'liquid' mutaa and dump it on your amil or nearest zaada.

as for doing good for this forum, the day you grow up, learn respect, learn a more mature and civilised form of language and improve your pathetic IQ, then return, or send one of your pompous zaadas to debate. this forum is too intelligent for retards like you to be in.

Smart
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mutah

#18

Unread post by Smart » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:02 pm

^
Agree with this post. The topic of this post has no concern with the bohra beliefs. The idea is to provoke people into answering and then take this answer to ithna-asharis are create fitna and problems.

The way the query is posted after ridiculing everything about the reformists and doing gaali galoch, the intentions of haqqun nafs are clearly malafide.

This guy's intentions are clearly questionable and dishonest.

Mubarak
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:01 am

Re: Mutah

#19

Unread post by Mubarak » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:49 pm

haqqun nafs wrote:
anajmi wrote:Mutah is an unislamic practice introduced to get around prostitution. There is no evidence of this in the sunnah of the prophet.

lol anajmi


u mean all ithnaa ashari doing haraam? i will suggest you to google and find out more about it then come up with your personal fatwa...by the way Imam Ali performed Mutah,usmaan banned it.better u google and get more details.

Per Dawoodi Bohras shariyat, 'mutah' is absolutely haram.

Google search result is not necessarily right but Dawoodi Bohra Shriyat was, is and always be fully right.


To justify the injustice, Ithanashari cooked a false story that Mola Ali (a.s.) performed mutah (mazallah).

Mola Ali (a.s.) is a man of character indeed where Ali goes there goes 'haq'.

Whereas the last five Ithnashari Imams are not from the 'Aseel' mother i.e. their mother were the 'londi' (slave girl) purchased with money or won in wars. Thus, those last five Ithnashari Imams can justify characterless mutah as halal not Mola Ali (a.s.)

FYI, Shri Burhanuddin, his late father Taher Saifuddin in particular and Kothar in general enjoys getting the touch of ‘gair mehram’ ladies (they get their hand kissed by gair mehram ladies) = Ithnashari with mutah and characterless Burhanuddin and his father all are “eik hi theli ke chatte batte”!!!

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#20

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:47 pm

haggun nuts,
u mean all ithnaa ashari doing haraam?
Yes. They are doing haraam. Besides, just because you are an ithnaa ashari doesn't mean that everything you do is halaal.
by the way Imam Ali performed Mutah
No he didn't. Can you provide any evidence that he did? And if he did, then he did something that was haraam. No one is above the quran and sunnah of the prophet. Not even Hazrat Ali.

porus,

I love your response to this hagg and then muut guy.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#21

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:55 pm

ok as per the replies form you guys it is very clear and evidient you guy are not well learned about the religion it self...it was a genuine query and i do wanted to know whats ismailism says about Mutah,and not just one but there are thousand evident Imam Ali did performed and allowed Mutah,while he was in war.


and even practically it seems okay to me coz sex is a major need of human life,and those sahaba had to stay away from there wives for months and years while they are in war.....usmaan banned it for some reason (most probably just coz of jeolousy against Imam ALI)

Imam Ali said if Usmaan would not have altered Mutah adultery would not exist in world.

for more information you can visit many shia websites and forums.

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#22

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:11 am

haggun nuts,

Imam Ali has said that in the 21st century Dawoodi Bohras will spread lies about him.

I can attribute anything to Hazrat Ali if I do not need to provide evidence. I do not need to look at shia websites. What is your evidence?? If your evidence is shia websites, then you have much to learn about religion.

If Hazrat Ali had allowed adultery and called it allowedtery, even then adultery would not exist in the world. Now go bring some genuine evidence or stop blaming everything on Hazrat Ali.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#23

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:18 am

anajmi wrote:haggun nuts,

Imam Ali has said that in the 21st century Dawoodi Bohras will spread lies about him.

I can attribute anything to Hazrat Ali if I do not need to provide evidence. I do not need to look at shia websites. What is your evidence?? If your evidence is shia websites, then you have much to learn about religion.

If Hazrat Ali had allowed adultery and called it allowedtery, even then adultery would not exist in the world. Now go bring some genuine evidence or stop blaming everything on Hazrat Ali.

ok lol seems now i have flood this forum with proofs of mutah by Imam Ali and all other Imam.give me some time i will give you what u asking for.

i have no doubt about Ali did mutah or not but my question was,did fatema dawat ever had this concept? coz many a things have been changed as per the time including salah.

Biradar
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Mutah

#24

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:48 am

haqqun nafs wrote: Imam Ali said if Usmaan would not have altered Mutah adultery would not exist in world.

for more information you can visit many shia websites and forums.
Brother "haqqun nafs",

I do not believe you know anything about Bohra beliefs. You use the term "Imam Ali". First, I want to remind you that Bohras always use the term "Maulana Ali". After every farizat prayer (except for asr) you recite that Maulana Ali was the foundation of the Imamat, the wasi of the prophet and the friend of god. The first imam of this era is Imam Hassan. Ali has a higher rank than all imams as he was the foundation of the imamat and the wasi of the prophet. The ithna-asharis count Ali as the first imam and hence use the term "Imam Ali". The bohras are not ithna-asharis. Do not believe something because it appears on a shia website or forum.

Also, I have to say: shame on you. You claim to be the follower of S. Mohammad Burhanuddin. However, your behavior is more like that of a follower of Iblis. You use foul language, you abuse people on the board without any reason and, in short, make a complete fool of yourself. I strongly advise you not to continue down this path. You are slinging more mud on your maula than any progressive has done. Do not make a mockery of yourself and your maula. Leave this board alone. I am sure you have better things to do where you will appear less of a fool.

I also advise you to look carefully around you and learn about Islam and bohra history. You will learn that the control which the da'i and his administration exerts on the community has no precedence or authority in our history. The da'i, in the absence of the imam, has the duty to call towards the dawaat. Not to frighten people away from it. Please read, for example, the chapter on Zakaat from the Daim ul-Islam. You will see that Ali clear told the collectors of Zakaat not to frighten the people and be compassionate. Contrast that to the thugs who collect Zakaat today. Also, learn about how Ali used the public funds. In the lectures of the Sayedna you will hear that he was careful to not misuse public money, that he would use one lamp, with oil purchased from public funds, for state work and another lamp with oil purchased from his own funds for his private work. He would eat simple food and wear torn clothes while his sons, Hassan and Hussain, would serve good food to everyone who came. Just contrast this to the decadent and luxurious life-style led by the da'i, his children and his large extended family. All of this on public funds without any accountability. Brother, your leaders are now addicted to a life of gluttony and extreme decadence. They will not give this up easily and will keep milking the community. Worse, they are leading you down the path of perdition.

You have developed a thick fog around your intellect which prevents you from seeing the atrocious things happening in our community. I suggest you look long and hard and question your self if any of this is justified and is historically justifiable. If you want, you can continue to be a part of the problem. Continue to be the ignorant fool you are. You and your children and grandchildren will continue to be slaves and feed the greed and gluttony of your leaders.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#25

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:36 am

Biradar wrote:
haqqun nafs wrote: Imam Ali said if Usmaan would not have altered Mutah adultery would not exist in world.

for more information you can visit many shia websites and forums.
Brother "haqqun nafs",

I do not believe you know anything about Bohra beliefs. You use the term "Imam Ali". First, I want to remind you that Bohras always use the term "Maulana Ali". After every farizat prayer (except for asr) you recite that Maulana Ali was the foundation of the Imamat, the wasi of the prophet and the friend of god. The first imam of this era is Imam Hassan. Ali has a higher rank than all imams as he was the foundation of the imamat and the wasi of the prophet. The ithna-asharis count Ali as the first imam and hence use the term "Imam Ali". The bohras are not ithna-asharis. Do not believe something because it appears on a shia website or forum.

Also, I have to say: shame on you. You claim to be the follower of S. Mohammad Burhanuddin. However, your behavior is more like that of a follower of Iblis. You use foul language, you abuse people on the board without any reason and, in short, make a complete fool of yourself. I strongly advise you not to continue down this path. You are slinging more mud on your maula than any progressive has done. Do not make a mockery of yourself and your maula. Leave this board alone. I am sure you have better things to do where you will appear less of a fool.

I also advise you to look carefully around you and learn about Islam and bohra history. You will learn that the control which the da'i and his administration exerts on the community has no precedence or authority in our history. The da'i, in the absence of the imam, has the duty to call towards the dawaat. Not to frighten people away from it. Please read, for example, the chapter on Zakaat from the Daim ul-Islam. You will see that Ali clear told the collectors of Zakaat not to frighten the people and be compassionate. Contrast that to the thugs who collect Zakaat today. Also, learn about how Ali used the public funds. In the lectures of the Sayedna you will hear that he was careful to not misuse public money, that he would use one lamp, with oil purchased from public funds, for state work and another lamp with oil purchased from his own funds for his private work. He would eat simple food and wear torn clothes while his sons, Hassan and Hussain, would serve good food to everyone who came. Just contrast this to the decadent and luxurious life-style led by the da'i, his children and his large extended family. All of this on public funds without any accountability. Brother, your leaders are now addicted to a life of gluttony and extreme decadence. They will not give this up easily and will keep milking the community. Worse, they are leading you down the path of perdition.

You have developed a thick fog around your intellect which prevents you from seeing the atrocious things happening in our community. I suggest you look long and hard and question your self if any of this is justified and is historically justifiable. If you want, you can continue to be a part of the problem. Continue to be the ignorant fool you are. You and your children and grandchildren will continue to be slaves and feed the greed and gluttony of your leaders.

I dont understand why u guys are just interested to talk about money? lol

there are many other issues apart from Money

duniyaa mein gum aur bhi hain sakir paiso ke siwaa :mrgreen: sorry i am not so good in shero shaayire may be Mr Kulfi(zulfi) can correct me lol

Maqbool
Posts: 848
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Mutah

#26

Unread post by Maqbool » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:09 am

HN
and even practically it seems okay to me coz sex is a major need of human life,and those sahaba had to stay away from there wives for months and years while they are in war.....
O.K. Now will you please tell us if sahaba is away from home then the wives will be at home all alone! Any mutha for ladies are provided in sharia?

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#27

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:27 am

hahaha Imam Ali talked about dawodi bohraa? are u in your senses?
haggun nuts,

That proves the level of intelligence that we are dealing with when we deal with abde idiots. You have no idea about what I was trying to say. If this is what the dawat is doling out as it's defenders then I am willing to bet every last penny of mine on the progressives.
.give me some time i will give you what u asking for.
Take as much time as you want. Instead of wasting it on idiotic postings, do some research and then come back.

haqqun nafs
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:08 am

Re: Mutah

#28

Unread post by haqqun nafs » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:55 am

Maqbool wrote:HN
and even practically it seems okay to me coz sex is a major need of human life,and those sahaba had to stay away from there wives for months and years while they are in war.....
O.K. Now will you please tell us if sahaba is away from home then the wives will be at home all alone! Any mutha for ladies are provided in sharia?

is there any religion on earth which allows women to get married once more or to get involve in sex by any means while she is married to some one.

anajmi
Posts: 13417
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Mutah

#29

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:52 am

If you look at the ithna asharis, they probably believe in something called "hatum". This is a practice where women can do what you are looking for. They might also tell you that Hazrat Ali allowed it. Islam allows no such practice and unless you are a greek god, or Draupadi, I don't think any other religion allows this either.

Biradar
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Mutah

#30

Unread post by Biradar » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:56 pm

haqqun nafs wrote:
Biradar wrote:
Brother "haqqun nafs",

You may be "lol" or even "rofl", but remember the mullahs will have the last laugh. At your expense, literally.

The progressives are not interested in talking about money for its own sake. Money is the instrument of power and oppression. Simple bohras who do know any better are dazzled by the wealth and ostentatious display of the sayedna and his immediate family. They do not realize, as clearly you do not do so yourself, that Islam promotes a life of simplicity, charity and respect for parents and kin. Contrary to this, the da'i and his children live a life of decadence, steal from the poor and destroy families.

Yes, there are many other issues apart from money. We are glad to discuss this with you, if you promise to remain civil and not go on a fanatical rampage, cursing and abusing everyone. The present administration has hijacked the community, its history, its literature and its rich philosophy. We will not leave all of this heritage, which belongs to all of us, you and me, to the machinations of the shahzadas or the kothar.

You fail to see that you are allowed on this forum to fling abuses on the progressives. Can you point out one bohra forum where we can criticize or complain about an aamil's high handedness? Try it, just once, and see the consequences. Contrast it to this board: it allows you to participate without too much censorship and it allows you to abuse the progressives. Yet, we have not yet booted you off. We keep you around just so you can continue to make a fool of yourself and sling mud on your own maula. I am sure he is ashamed of your behaviour which portrays him in a worse light than any of us can do. Keep up the good work.