You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
grounded
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:01 pm

You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#1

Unread post by grounded » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:25 pm

You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time
25 years ago, when I was about to marry a Hindu man, I had to go to Galiakot to meet Syedna so I could exonerate my parents and their parenting, and claim rightfully that this decision was completely my own. I remember before meeting Maulana I was made to meet Muffadal Bhaisab, and he could not for the life of him, fathom why I did not believe in the Dawat and Maulana. I was then sent to his wife, Zohra Begum, who was very smart and first, figured out what was my support system, if indeed I did marry the Hindu man. Once she figured that out, she then pronounced in her loud and flaunting way that now you’re “dead” for your family. Anyway, I was finally produced before Maulana, Mohammad Burhanuddin, and to everyone’s surprise Maulana held my hand and said “Khuda Tamane Tuhfeeq Aape”. He repeated the same thing again, when the Chamchas around him, kept telling him that she is about to marry a HINDU.
Anyway, the day after I returned, I did get married to the man I loved. About six months later, Zohra Begum called my mother and close family and made sure that they would have no relations with me. For almost 10 years I did not have proper relationship with my family just because of Zohra Begum’s instructions, despite the fact that Maulana himself had not said anything to me. I basically think that was their way to make sure that other girls in the community would not do this, and that if they dared to go against the community, then they and their families will suffer a punishment.
In 2002, when Maulana came to Houston, there was a push for us to do ‘ Nikah’. I resisted it as I did not want a mere show, and did not want to commit a sin by pretending to convert to Islam when we actually did not believe in it.
I have since found my ‘spiritual path’ and feel blessed on my spiritual journey.
Now so many years later, being a relative outsider, I see this drama of succession to the 53rd dai, and know for sure that all of this has been ‘humbug’: a means to control and maim people. Nothing ‘spiritual’. Everything about ‘money and power’. When you’re an outsider you can see dispassionately how the Muffadal Bhaisab’s troupe is trying to brainwash the people with the propaganda machinery that they have, and they will probably succeed. Similarly the Mazoon Saheb’s group are trying their best to win over the people to their side as well. People are so gullible, they need the crutch of Dawat, so they will believe in anything. It is very sad to see this happen. But I hope some people will begin to question and ask themselves ‘what’ and ‘how’.
It is very true what Abraham Lincoln once said “ It is possible to fool some people all the time, or all the people for some time, but it is impossible to fool all the people all the time”.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#2

Unread post by wise_guy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:43 pm

I liked 1 line though that Maula Burhanuddin (RA) said "Khuda tamne taufik aape" implies Burhanuddin Maula (RA) was moderate and didn't push or force you. This fact would be hard for many on this forum to digest.

taara
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:46 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#3

Unread post by taara » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:12 pm

Grounded, thank you for sharing your story. I, too, have left the bohri fold some years back and am also looking at these events as a bit of an outsider. It is so obvious to me that the shehzadas and their henchmen that are running the show are just running a business, it's a mafia. It is a multi-billion dollar empire, nothing more. In a time when you and your family needed compassion, you got none. They didn't think twice about tearing apart your family or the emotional toll that would have on you or your family. It's always about control and power....the abdes are merely pawns in their game. I wish people would wake up and see this basic fact.

grounded
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#4

Unread post by grounded » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:20 pm

I agree completely with you Taara. It is much easier to see this whole thing unfold and look at its implications as a relative outsider.

taara
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:46 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#5

Unread post by taara » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:32 pm

BTW, Grounded.....I'm glad you followed your heart in the face of all that pressure 25 years ago. It's still hard for my friends today to marry outside the bohri fold. Twenty-five years ago...I cannot imagine the what you had to overcome. I'm glad it ended well for you!

Kaka Akela
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#6

Unread post by Kaka Akela » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:13 pm

All my sisters, Lamiya, Grounded and Tara :

Welcome to this forum, Lamiya converted to Bohraism and grounded and Tara left Bohraism which is no concern of anyones but I welcome them and encourage others to join in speak up as these daring ladies have done.

No religion is pristine and pure as mother's milk, each one has its faults, so does ours. But overall I stay in this religion because it is the best when it comes to praying, cleanliness and social and the basic dogma and teachings. Lately though the Dai has been raised to such a high pedestal that it has become ghuloo (excess) in his praises. If you ignore this ghuloo then it is the best among all Muslim sects.

What you have faced so daringly whether coming in or going out is admirable. I am impressed with sister Lamiya's knowledge of our history to discuss and stand her ground with the best on this Forum. Hope to hear more from all of you, even though I am not a frequent contributor, I visit often to know whats happening all over the world as related to our community. Again WELCOME.

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#7

Unread post by wise_guy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:15 pm

Nowadays, marrying anyone bohri (clean shaved, interest taker/reciever, corrupted, criminal) or non bohri is not a problem so long as you have fat najwa covers ready !

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#8

Unread post by wise_guy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:16 pm

I have observed this phenomena on several occasions during qadambosi baithak of Syedna Burhanuddin (RA). Relating it now after seeing this post by 'grounded'. The Bhai sahebs and the lowly chamchas or the yes men are the ones who create trouble. Maula (RA) has always been moderate and not forceful as long as I know. The chamchas in their zealousness to show that they are working towards khushi of Maula reprise or scold the common bohras if they see even minor shortcomings in a person.
grounded wrote:You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time
25 years ago, when I was about to marry a Hindu man, I had to go to Galiakot to meet Syedna so I could exonerate my parents and their parenting, and claim rightfully that this decision was completely my own. I remember before meeting Maulana I was made to meet Muffadal Bhaisab, and he could not for the life of him, fathom why I did not believe in the Dawat and Maulana. I was then sent to his wife, Zohra Begum, who was very smart and first, figured out what was my support system, if indeed I did marry the Hindu man. Once she figured that out, she then pronounced in her loud and flaunting way that now you’re “dead” for your family. Anyway, I was finally produced before Maulana, Mohammad Burhanuddin, and to everyone’s surprise Maulana held my hand and said “Khuda Tamane Tuhfeeq Aape”. He repeated the same thing again, when the Chamchas around him, kept telling him that she is about to marry a HINDU.
Anyway, the day after I returned, I did get married to the man I loved. About six months later, Zohra Begum called my mother and close family and made sure that they would have no relations with me. For almost 10 years I did not have proper relationship with my family just because of Zohra Begum’s instructions, despite the fact that Maulana himself had not said anything to me. I basically think that was their way to make sure that other girls in the community would not do this, and that if they dared to go against the community, then they and their families will suffer a punishment.
In 2002, when Maulana came to Houston, there was a push for us to do ‘ Nikah’. I resisted it as I did not want a mere show, and did not want to commit a sin by pretending to convert to Islam when we actually did not believe in it.
I have since found my ‘spiritual path’ and feel blessed on my spiritual journey.
Now so many years later, being a relative outsider, I see this drama of succession to the 53rd dai, and know for sure that all of this has been ‘humbug’: a means to control and maim people. Nothing ‘spiritual’. Everything about ‘money and power’. When you’re an outsider you can see dispassionately how the Muffadal Bhaisab’s troupe is trying to brainwash the people with the propaganda machinery that they have, and they will probably succeed. Similarly the Mazoon Saheb’s group are trying their best to win over the people to their side as well. People are so gullible, they need the crutch of Dawat, so they will believe in anything. It is very sad to see this happen. But I hope some people will begin to question and ask themselves ‘what’ and ‘how’.
It is very true what Abraham Lincoln once said “ It is possible to fool some people all the time, or all the people for some time, but it is impossible to fool all the people all the time”.

SBM
Posts: 6467
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 4:01 am

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#9

Unread post by SBM » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:38 pm

The Bhai sahebs and the lowly chamchas or the yes men are the ones who create trouble. Maula (RA) has always been moderate and not forceful as long as I know
Ultimately Moula is responsible, being a Ghaib na Jankar, he should be aware of his subordinates and if he did not know what is going in immediate surrounding how would he know what is going on in Jamaats.
Remember BUCK STOPS THERE.

Mazakyo
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:01 am

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#10

Unread post by Mazakyo » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:07 pm

grounded wrote: I was then sent to his wife, Zohra Begum, who was very smart and first, figured out what was my support system, if indeed I did marry the Hindu man. Once she figured that out, she then pronounced in her loud and flaunting way that now you’re “dead” for your family.
Zohra Begum ???? Apa grounded tum kahin ghalti say Muqaddar Ka Sikander kay set pay tu nahi challi gai thi Rekha say milnay !!!

wise_guy
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#11

Unread post by wise_guy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:16 pm

@taara - You & many people on this forum say that you/they wished that people would wake up. But before that you need to look at the ground reality in the bohra world. Majority of bohras reside in India/Pakistan/Africa/Gulf nations. As far as I know, the education systems in these countries are more focussed towards creating a bunch of service men and factory workers. (You must also remember the fact that so many of bohras in these countries born in 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s or even 90s are illiterate or sparsley educated.) There is hardly any incentive or initiative for free thinking, innovation present in those countries. So the children are suited or accustomed to that line of thinking (thinking such as religious figures are always right and are revered no matter what) So when these children become adults, they have the same mentality and questioning religious authority is a taboo subject that shouldn't be violated at any instant. Then there is constant brain wash from the religious institutions (be it bohras or non bohras. Check out the following of Asaram Bapu accused in sexual abuse cases) There are many more intricacies involved which keep people from revolting or waking up. Even if there are thousands of people who feel that Kothar excess and arrogance is too much, no1 is ready to revolt for reasons known and discussed since time unknown.
taara wrote:Grounded, thank you for sharing your story. I, too, have left the bohri fold some years back and am also looking at these events as a bit of an outsider. It is so obvious to me that the shehzadas and their henchmen that are running the show are just running a business, it's a mafia. It is a multi-billion dollar empire, nothing more. In a time when you and your family needed compassion, you got none. They didn't think twice about tearing apart your family or the emotional toll that would have on you or your family. It's always about control and power....the abdes are merely pawns in their game. I wish people would wake up and see this basic fact.

MusaKarimji
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: You Cannot Fool All the People All the Time

#12

Unread post by MusaKarimji » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:36 am

I hope now you are happy with your hindu man.you have no faith in dai it is okay, but you should have faith in Quraan.

any ways ALLAH says momeen will get momeena,mushriq will get mshriqa and kafir will get kafira.


"[Believing men], Do not marry women of the idolaters until they believe. A slave girl who is one of the believers is better for you than a woman of the idolaters, even though she may attract you. [Believing women], Do not marry men of the idolaters until they believe, a male slave who is one of the believers is better for you than a man of the idolaters, even though he may attract you. Such people call you to the Fire whereas Allah calls you, by His leave, to the Garden and forgiveness. He makes His verses clear to people so that they may pay heed." (Qur'an 2:221)




"Corrupt women are for corrupt men, and corrupt men are for corrupt women. The upright women are for upright men and the upright men are for upright women. The good are innocent of what has been said against them; they will have forgiveness and generous provision." (Qur'an 24:26)