new salafi mosque in bhendi bazar \ bohri mohalla

[Muslim First]

REPEAT POST

Br 6'U and HSU

Have you ever prayed directly to Allah SWT (that is without Wasila)?

What do you think about this?
THE ESSAY- On praying to anybody except Allah SWT
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=2&t=4265

[ghulam muhammed]

A request to all the active participants on this thread :-

This thread has reached a dead end and it is futile to discuss it any further as both sides have made their point and none are willing to accept the other point of view. Viewers have read the contrarion viewpoints so lets leave it to them to decide as to what is right.

[Muslim First]

I second

[aliabbas_aa]

reg Ganpati, they do say that Ganpati is not god but only an intercessor to make them closer to God. And shia beliefs are as fictitious as hindu beliefs , you respect their mythology! and i condemn both but i do respect their people.

It has been consistently proven on this forum that Ya Ali madad is shirk and one of the shia members :Hanif i guess agreed to it too. Many of the informed intellectuals on this forum have also not supported this shirk.

and i urge all the members to condemn and protest against this evil utterance.
We also consider the prophet pbuh and his ahlebayt, pious sahaba as role models, so dont try to project us as haters of ahle bayt, love is good but love can be blind ! and Quran condemns exaggeration in religion .
All muslims(salafi,barelvi,deobandi, etc) would never hesitate to follow ahlebayt and if they are given sufficient proof that a particular didactic teaching has come from ahlebayt they wont hesitate to follow it. But the problem is that you just "claim" to follow ahlebayt, but ur leaders are ayatullahs who have no relations with ahlebayt nor any proven teachings of ahlebayt to agree upon on . hence u see shias divided in hundreds of sects, they cant even agree on their own ahlebayt?? they claim to have leaders in their ayatullah , mola, Imam etc but is that leader a representative of Ahlelbayt, sureLY a BIG NO!. the differences of sects in Islam itself is a sufficient proof that all of them except one is on the true path.Hence either alvi dai is right or dawoodi dai or both of them are wrong and i go with the latter , now i compare ayatulla is right or Aga khan, let us reject aga khan and accept ayatulla, now i compare ayatulla with other Shia leaders of a sects like zaidi, ghullat,etc, in the end, i end up rejecting all! so i acknowledge the fact that there is no leader in this ummah and our prophet pbuh and his Quran is our leader.
The finalty of prophet pbuh is also a substantial proof that there would mot be any divinely appointed leader after prophet pbuh , the prophet pbuh and his teachings are a perfection of all teachings of the past and the future. and anyone who claims to get a divinely appointed leader without the authority of the prophet pbuh then he has insulted the prophet pbuh and his teachings. Allah has protected his Quran and his teachings alhamdulillah.
Wakafa billahi waliyah(Allah is sufficient as a Wali)

And tell me what shia have given to the Muslim ummah except taqiya , disunity and civil wars?

If you say its on intention alone , then what you would say about the ganpati pujak who does Aaarti of ganpati and claims that his intention is not to worship this stone idol , but to worship the one true God alone!

Fyi, Ganpati is a deity of hindus which is worshipped. If not as direct GOD, he is worshipped as the Remover of Obstacles and more generally as Lord of Beginnings and Lord of Obstacles. Here the intention of worshipper is clear because that is what he is declaring and believing into.

Moreover with all due respects the hindu mythology looks fictitious and comparing fictional with reality doesn't make sense.

If you want to make comparisons, You can call your son and parents mushrik when they call you for help and then you are free to call us the same. Next time even when you think about Allah(swt) be careful you might be committing shirk, because something which "can be thought about" cannot be Allah(Swt). Anyways this is too much for you to understand. It is in your intrest to focus on your concept of tawheed rather than branding others as mushriks.

The prophet(pbuh) and his ahlulbait(as) are our best roles models and they are alive as per quran and they listen to us and reply when we call. You need to purify your heart to recieve this. It has been proved consistently on this forum the validity of calling out to these noble creatures but unfortunately the veil of hatred has sealed your heart. No shia worships ahlulbait. We love them, rever them and call them as our leaders. It is through them and their lives we understand islam the way it needs to be understood unlike it was understood by the so called "muslims" of karbala who were shouting "La illaha illalah" and at the same time killing the grandson of the prophet(pbuh). How different are you and your salaf from them. You are also shouting the same kalma and killing shias and other people all around the world just because they do not endorse your way of thinking.

An intention may not manifest itself in an action but your Actions speak out your intention.

This is not true. Have you read Surah kahf. Have you read the story of Musa(as) and his companion.

hence by invoking "ya ali madad" in spite of Quran forbidding it "iyya kanabudu wa iyyakanastaeeim" in surah fateha, your actions go in contradiction with the prohibition of the ACTION of invoking others for help

The way you have understood quran is limited to your intellect where you pick up ayats as per your convenience to suit your ego. Your basic belief system of Tawheed is crooked. Your God (the idol of Allah(swt) which you have created in your mind) is very intolerant and cruel.

[aliabbas_aa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuc9tXdC ... r_embedded

an excellent video by a shia scholar giving proof of wasila! and direct invocation, see how misguided they are!

[khuzema]

All muslims(salafi,barelvi,deobandi, etc) would never hesitate to follow ahlebayt and if they are given sufficient proof that a particular didactic teaching has come from ahlebayt they wont hesitate to follow it. But the problem is that you just "claim" to follow ahlebayt, but ur leaders are ayatullahs who have no relations with ahlebayt nor any proven teachings of ahlebayt to agree upon on . hence u see shias divided in hundreds of sects, they cant even agree on their own ahlebayt?? they claim to have leaders in their ayatullah , mola, Imam etc but is that leader a representative of Ahlelbayt, sureLY a BIG NO!. the differences of sects in Islam itself is a sufficient proof that all of them except one is on the true path.Hence either alvi dai is right or dawoodi dai or both of them are wrong and i go with the latter , now i compare ayatulla is right or Aga khan, let us reject aga khan and accept ayatulla, now i compare ayatulla with other Shia leaders of a sects like zaidi, ghullat,etc, in the end, i end up rejecting all! so i acknowledge the fact that there is no leader in this ummah and our prophet pbuh and his Quran is our leader.

My prospective on this is - I feel becoming Aga Khani is not at all an option. For Bohras becoming aga khani is like asking a Millionaire to reduce himself to an middle class American who has to work hard to meet his family needs. So we don't want to go backwards. Now becoming a Sunni is even worse. It's like asking a millionaire to become a beggar. The worst progress every is to become sunni. The progress should be upward and not down word. It is very difficult but I feel that we have to make change from within. If we have to grow, the revolution should come from within and not by looking for some cheaper alternatives.

[aliabbas_aa]

Br Khozema do you only think in terms of financial success only?, Unfortunately bohra grooming puts a lot of emphasis on financial success alone leaving behind the true deen and being satisfied with the present corrupt beliefs . Infact the bohra deen is conducive to business then to spiritual upliftment hence it narrows down your vision to equate success with only financial success. If you see these bohra mosques at raudat tahera in non ramzan days very few people attend . bohra deen is all about matam, food, business, gossip, mola mola whereas Islam is all about 6 articles of imaan and five pillars that aid this Imaan.

In this Surah Asr an oath has been sworn by the Time to impress the point that man is in sheer loss and only those people are an exception from the loss who are characterized by four qualities:

Faith\IMAAN
Righteous deeds
Exhorting one another to Truth DAAWAH TO ISLAM
Exhorting one another to patience
IMAAN:
1 Belief in God (Allāh), the one and only one worthy of all worship (tawhid).
which includes:

Tawhid al Rubu`biya - meaning Belief in the Oneness of the Lordship of Allah, where it is to believe that there is only one Lord for all the universe, its Creator, Organizer, Planner, Sustainer, and the Giver of security and so on that is Allah. In addition to declaring Allah to be One and Unique in His work being creation, sustenance, bringing to life and causing death and so on.

Tawhid al `Uluhiyya - meaning Belief in the Oneness of the Worship of Allah, where it is to believe in total obedience to Allah, that none has the right to be worshiped (praying, invoking, asking for help (from the unseen), swearing, slaughtering sacrifices, giving charity, fasting, pilgrimage and so on) except Allah. In addition to declaring Allah as the Only God to whom all acts of worship must be dedicated, such as Salah (prayers), Zakah, Saum (fasting), supplications, vowing and so on. This also includes emotions like love, trust, and fear all of which have degrees which should only be directed to Allah. <-----A VERY IMPORTANT NOTE TO BOHRAS

Tawheed-al-Asma was-Sifaat - meaning Belief in the Oneness of the Names and the Attributes of Allah, being affirmation of all the Divine Names and Attributes of Allah in a manner that suits His Majesty, as mentioned in the Qu’ran and the Sunnah. This tenet is further divided into four aspects regarding the affirmation that it is without tashbih (establishing likeness), takyeef (speculating as to "how" they are manifested in the divine), ta'teel (negating/denying their apparent meaning) and ta'weel (giving it secondary/symbolic meaning which is different from the apparent meaning).


2 Belief in the Angels (malāʾika).
3 Belief in the Books (kutub) sent by Allah (including the Qurʾān, Gospel and Torah/Tanakh).
4 Belief in all the Messengers (rusul) sent by Allah (including Muḥammad, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, and Adam)
5 Belief in the Day of Judgment (yawm al-qiyāmah) and in the Resurrection (life after death).
6 Belief in Destiny (Fate) (qadar).

The first five are based on several Qurʾānic creeds including but not limited to the following the verse

"O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. "
—Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 136[2]

[khuzema]

When i say bohras are better i did not mean that they are better economically. Suni Arabs and Ismailis are much stronger economically. I am more talking about culture and religion. They are richer than Bohras, but you have to look at where the money is coming from.

There is corruption in Bohra clergy, which needs to be fixed and we should fight for it. But Bohra corruption is no where close to corruption in Sunni Clergy. Saudi Arabia makes $30 Billion dollar EVERY YEAR on our Hajj. How much of it have returned back to the community. May be 10%, and out of that 10%, 9% goes for terrorism. You see all Saudi princes' goes to Las Vegas and spend our Hajj money there.

So I think the best way to fight is, fight from within. I think there is more hope in Bohra Islam.

[aliabbas_aa]

Saudi Arabia makes $30 Billion dollar EVERY YEAR on our Hajj.

can you substantiate your claims? Although all know how much KSA spends in welfare and proper upkeep of the holy mosques, and pilgrims.have u seen the pilgrimage site of these hindu, jain, christians ? now compare with saudi arabia hajj pilgrimage see how much facilities, cleanliness , management is done in spite of millions arriving for haj!
Also compare with other pagan shrines of "pilgrimage" like karbala, najaf , ajmer,see how poorly things are managed and you end up spending more in these tours then what you spend visiting KSA normalizing with the rewards earned.
I guess KSA being the worlds largest exporter of black gold , does not need to earn money from haj, infact the built up of these pilgrimage site emphasizes this point.

[SBM]

When i say bohras are better i did not mean that they are better economically. Suni Arabs and Ismailis are much stronger economically. I am more talking about culture and religion. They are richer than Bohras, but you have to look at where the money is coming from.

There is corruption in Bohra clergy, which needs to be fixed and we should fight for it. But Bohra corruption is no where close to corruption in Sunni Clergy. Saudi Arabia makes $30 Billion dollar EVERY YEAR on our Hajj. How much of it have returned back to the community. May be 10%, and out of that 10%, 9% goes for terrorism. You see all Saudi princes' goes to Las Vegas and spend our Hajj money there.

So I think the best way to fight is, fight from within. I think there is more hope in Bohra Islam.

Oh Boy you are so full of ----
Saudi Arabia makes money out of its Oil and not from Hajj. As much as I abhor Saudi Monarchy I have nothing but praises for their managing the Holiest Mosques in Islam. They are doing a wonderful job in managing and NO THOSE MASJIDS ARE NOT MAINTAINED WITH YOUR HAJJ MONEY. you are mistaking that with Bohra Clergy who takes your money to keep their life style and use your money to maintain masjids and Jaman and then call it from Moula No, one not even Mafia can beat Bohra Clergy when it comes to Money Corruption

[Muslim First]

Saudi Arabia makes money out of its Oil and not from Hajj.
Correct. Saudi citizen do benefit from Hujj and umrah commerce like providing lodging and boarding..
As much as I abhor Saudi Monarchy I have nothing but praises for their managing the Holiest Mosques in Islam
Agreed

BTW, by constructing and running musafakhanas at various Dargahs Kothar also makes mullahs. Pretty soon Kothar will own Dargahs tourism industry.

[pheonix]

When i say bohras are better i did not mean that they are better economically. Suni Arabs and Ismailis are much stronger economically. I am more talking about culture and religion. They are richer than Bohras, but you have to look at where the money is coming from.

There is corruption in Bohra clergy, which needs to be fixed and we should fight for it. But Bohra corruption is no where close to corruption in Sunni Clergy. Saudi Arabia makes $30 Billion dollar EVERY YEAR on our Hajj. How much of it have returned back to the community. May be 10%, and out of that 10%, 9% goes for terrorism. You see all Saudi princes' goes to Las Vegas and spend our Hajj money there.

So I think the best way to fight is, fight from within. I think there is more hope in Bohra Islam.

Oh Boy you are so full of ----
Saudi Arabia makes money out of its Oil and not from Hajj. As much as I abhor Saudi Monarchy I have nothing but praises for their managing the Holiest Mosques in Islam. They are doing a wonderful job in managing and NO THOSE MASJIDS ARE NOT MAINTAINED WITH YOUR HAJJ MONEY. you are mistaking that with Bohra Clergy who takes your money to keep their life style and use your money to maintain masjids and Jaman and then call it from Moula No, one not even Mafia can beat Bohra Clergy when it comes to Money Corruption

Are you kidding me. Have you been to Mecca lately. Have you seen the mockery they have made of the Holy Kaaba.

[SBM]

Phoenix
And how about the Mockrey of Ramadan Kothar Made by having Ziyafats every night including Fadil Nights when Allah has commanded one to indulge in intensive Prayers.. OH I FORGOT FOR KOTHARI GOONS GETTING FAT SALAAM IS THE INTENSIVE PRAYERS

[ghulam muhammed]

Are you kidding me. Have you been to Mecca lately. Have you seen the mockery they have made of the Holy Kaaba.

There is no iota of doubt that the saudis are turning Makkah into las vegas and for which they should be strictly condemned and also for the mass destruction of prominent holy sites but it is surprising and rather sad that NONE of the so called muslim leaders have vociferously opposed the saudis. All that they have done is mere lip service without any concrete action. This is one big problem with sectarian divides. However saudis deserve due credit for the way they maintain the Holy Kaaba and Masjid-un-Nabawi and their treatment of pilgrims.

[Muslim First]

Being in infrastructure business, I admire and approve changes they have made and planned future changes.
I am talking about transportation, movement of pilgrims aroun both Masajids and accommodating. New planned scheme about tawaf is example.

[Fatwa Banker]

I admire and approve changes they have made and planned future changes

saudis deserve due credit for the way they maintain the Holy Kaaba and Masjid-un-Nabawi

praises for their managing the Holiest Mosques in Islam

When I read your posts, it is evident why Muslim are in the pathetic shape they are in. You are no different than Bohris who, when asked about all the $$$ they have to give, speak of the accommodations at various Ziyarats and Hajj.

You morons, you are being fleeced by these Arabs and they hire you wannabes to sweep and clean these sites, while selling you their religion. It is all foreign to you....the religion, the language, and the currency they pay you in.

Not sure if you are aware but the non-Muslims are discovering Mars while you get a hard on from the cleanliness of Mecca, which you get paid to clean, from the oil money they keep.

[anajmi]

Not sure if you are aware but the non-Muslims are discovering Mars

Not sure if you are aware, but Mars was discovered centuries ago.

[porus]

I admire and approve changes they have made and planned future changes

saudis deserve due credit for the way they maintain the Holy Kaaba and Masjid-un-Nabawi

praises for their managing the Holiest Mosques in Islam

When I read your posts, it is evident why Muslim are in the pathetic shape they are in. You are no different than Bohris who, when asked about all the $$$ they have to give, speak of the accommodations at various Ziyarats and Hajj.

You morons, you are being fleeced by these Arabs and they hire you wannabes to sweep and clean these sites, while selling you their religion. It is all foreign to you....the religion, the language, and the currency they pay you in.

Not sure if you are aware but the non-Muslims are discovering Mars while you get a hard on from the cleanliness of Mecca, which you get paid to clean, from the oil money they keep.

When you visit Harmayn (Islam's holiest masjids ion Makka and Madina), you will see an army of low paid South Asians sweeping the floors at set times being supervised by a Saudi or two. I have heard that every one wants to sweep the floors even if they get paid a pittance because the very act of sweeping the masjids earns them a lot of barakaat guaranteeing them a place in heaven. Needless to say, not very many high-income expatriates or Saudis would be seen taking advantage of the barakaat.

This issue is especially fine-tuned for Bohras. It has been drummed into them that cleaning masjids and dargahs including their toilets earns lots of sawab and has additional merits of being granted miraculous cures. The only requirement is that the person offering to clean must have absolute faith in Sayedna. If you visit shrines you will see scores of Bohras perform this task without pay. No, they even pay faakhir najwas for the opportunity. Needless to say, you will never observe a Royal or Aamil ever performing such noble deed to get heavenly rewards.

Let us look at the other side of the coin. Go to a public facility (toilets) in any major Department Store in the USA and compare their cleanliness with that in Bohra musafarkhanas. The difference. Harmayn servants and supermarket staff get paid to clean. Bohra divines expect their minions to clean for free. It appears that Sawaab has not got many takers.

Bohras will be the first perform Matam on Mars. So there is a chance yet of being the first even in Space.

[Fatwa Banker]

No doubt However, if Dai is God on Earth, Mars is beyond his jurisdiction, no ?

[khuzema]

Saudi makes $30 billion every year with Hajj and Umra. This is not their money, this is Umah's money and they should return it back to Umah. Assume how much development we can have it in Indian sub-continent if we gets $10 billion (Indian sub continent contributes 30% of hajj income) every year to uplift the poor and help the needy. We can make Bill gates foundation look dwarf.

$10 billion dollar every year will guarantee college for every Muslim. Muslims will soon become very prosperous. Unfortunalty this money is currently getting wasted no very wrong things.

[khuzema]

I have disused this with a lot of Sunnis in the past and here are some of the answers I have got from them

1. We give money with good intention and we should keep faith and not look at how it is used

2. Allah has selected saudi's for some reason, Allah is all knowing and we don't know the secrete behind this

3. We should not look at how money is being used, our job is to give them money, Allah will give us our reward, Allah will treat them according to their deeds

4. Some of the sunnis like to hide their face in sand and reject the corruption altogether. They say since Allah has selected Saudi to protect the holly place, they can't do no crime

After talking to them I don't see there is any difference in Abdes and Sunnis. Both of them are blind believers. The advantage of being bohrs is at least you can raise your voice againt the Kothars, in worst case you are fortunate to be beaten up by kothars. For a normal sunni, he can never even reach his voice to Sauidi corruption.

This way the chance of success with Bohras is a lot more than with sunnnis. Hopefully one day Bohras will be able to decrease corruption to great extent.

[aliabbas_aa]

Khuzema ,

If you live in mumbai , then please don't sit in your den commenting without any exposure and first hand knowledge, there are many place you can go to get accurate information only if you wanted to!

[sumi]

What is salafi mosque for bohras?? Is this mosque for ex bohras?

[sumi]

I checked that this mosque has very simple prayer hall like looks with multiple floors and also this is the only mosque which allows even ladies to pray which is surprising for such a mosque . This mosque does have a progressive appeal.