Why Are Bohras Allergic To 'Miyabhais' ?

[ghulam muhammed]

"Miyabhai" is a derogatory term used by bohras for all non-bohra muslims in a bid to elevate themselves above the other muslim sects. This type of bias is delibarately created by the bohra clergy in order to prevent bohras from mingling with muslims of other sects as there is a constant fear that on comparision, the bohra version of Islam would then be questioned by bohras for which they dont seem to have any meaningful answers. Bohras are hence prevented from discussing religious issues with them and also forbidden from praying in their masjids and/or listening to their bayans although this is in direct contravention with tenets of Islam which lays an emphasis on strengthening unity within the ummah. Due to this mindset, bohras in general shun the non-bohra muslims and in the bargain fail to achieve any knowledge of comparative study of religion. They have been forced to live in a cocoon like 'kuva me medak' which is unaware of the existence of vast oceans outside its tiny pond.

The biggest weapon used by the bohra clergy against them is the issue of khilafat thereby projecting all the other muslims as enemies of Ahle bayt which is nothing but a blatant lie thrust upon bohras. In fact all the 'other muslims' also rever Ahle Bayt and on the contrary address them with greater respect then the so called believers of Ahle Bayt. Other muslims or 'Miyabhais' address them as Hazrat Ali (r.a.), Nabi (s.a.w.), Hazrat Hussain (r.a.) and not as AliSAAB, NabiSAAB like bohras, a term used for ordinary mortals like policemen, municipal servants and other govt officials like Patilsaab, Shindesaab, Pawarsaab. One will never find 'Miyabhais' ever disrespecting or showering laanats on Ahle Bayts.

While a sunni/shia divide is already in existence but bohras have gone further by distancing themselves even from the mainstream shias, a sect which is supposed to love and rever Ahle Bayt just like them. This is evident from the fact that bohras are prohibited from attending shia majlis/vayez in Mohurrum although it is a different matter that one sees more bohras in Mughal masjid then even the shias. For bohras, shias too fall in the category of the second class muslims i.e. 'Miyabhais'. Hence it is evident that the hatred created by bohra clergy against sunnis with respect to khilafat issue is not the ONLY factor as otherwise why would they prevent bohras from mingling with shias also who share the same beliefs as them. There is a deeper conspiracy which is to keep the bohras ignorant with regard to the true Islamic beliefs as it helps the clergy in amassing more wealth in the name of religion without any questions being raised.

How many bohras are aware that the greatest of auliyas were not shias/bohras but nevertheless their faith was based entirely on the teachings of Mola Ali (a.s.), ALL the auliyas regard him as their peshwa, their first leader !! How many bohras are aware that the great auliya, Hazrat Khwaja Bande Nawaz (r.a.) of Gulbarga (Karnataka) was from the progeny of Imam Ali Zainul Abedin (a.s.) ? How many bohras are aware that the greatest auliya of India, Hazrat Khwaja Garib Nawaz (r.a.) traced his maternal lineage to Imam Hasan (a.s.) and paternal lineage to Imam Hussain (a.s.), hence he was from the progeny of none other but Mola Ali (a.s.) !! There are hundreds of such examples with regard to hundreds of auliyas and even though there is a bohra musafirkhana in Ajmer inspite of the city having a negligible bohra population, NO bohra ever pays a visit to the shrine of Hazrat Khwaja Garib Nawaz (r.a.). In fact when a bohra friend of mine went to Ajmer and stayed at bohra musafirkhana, he casually asked the address of the shrine to the caretaker amil to which the amil frowned upon him and told him "Tamari himmat kem thai ola musalmano ni dargah par jaava ni, su apni raudat tahera ni dargah nathi". It is a mystery as to why then a musafirkhana is still in existence although there is negligible bohra population and NO bohra dargahs within its vicinity.

There are numerous dargahs of auliyas in Ahmedabad like the Shah Alam dargah and there are holy relics of Prophet (s.a.w.) but bohras are never told about it lest the flow of bohras in their own dargahs reduces which would result in less revenue by way of galla collections and other hoobs. There is a dargah of a revered saint in Burhanpur also but hardly any bohra is aware of it. By this, I do not mean to propagate visits to other shrines but just to prove that bohras are deprived the knowledge of other muslims and great auliyas who trace their lineage to Mola Ali (a.s.), a figure whom bohras claim to rever and respect more then other muslim sects. By doing this they are even deprived of the teachings and life of these auliyas whose teachings were in perfect line with that of Panjatan Pak (a.s.). By learning more about them bohras are bound to find loopholes in the life of the present day dai and his zaadas which are diametrically opposite, a factor which could loosen the clergy's grip over them.

The clergy doesnt mind bohra's close proximity to non muslims like hindus, christians, jews, sikhs and parsis but have a BIG problem when it comes to mainstream muslims who are addressed in derogatory terms like 'Miyabhais' and 'Ola musalman', a factor which would prove harmful to them in future. There seems to be a hadith which says that Prophet (s.a.w.) has predicted the emergence of a muslim world before qayamat and if that happens then what would be the fate of bohras who are at loggerheads with other muslims and who have always stressed on a different identity away from them ? The Dai goes out of his way in establishing friendly ties with the arch enemies of muslims like Modi, Thackerey, Advani etc. who are known to be behind the brutal massacres of innocent muslim men, women and children. There is bound to emerge a muslim generation which would question these acts and pay back the bohras in the same coin. These are hard facts which needs to be pondered upon and one needs to find a remedy to cure the same and save our children from any backlash in future.

Although the hardline wahabi and taliban school of thought needs to be condemned in the strictest terms but the 51st Dai didnt have any problem in accepting a Cadillac and a Buick Car from the late saudi king and the 52nd dai even refuses to participate in the protest against demolition of holy sites in the kingdom, has anyone ever heard a line of protest from him although he promises to build a zari made of gold on the shrine of Fatema-tus-Zehra (a.s.) thereby collecting tonnes of gold since decades which could even put the american fort knoxx to shame. Hence it is a hatred of convenience which is politically motivated to adhere to the dirty politics prevalent in present day dawat. On close scrutiny one can easily conclude that the "Divide and rule" policy adapted by the dai from the britishers is a ploy to expand his financial empire in the garb of Islam simultanously keeping his followers ignorant of the true teachings of Panjatan Pak (a.s.). No comparative study of religion is permitted as no religious discussion with 'Miyabhais' is allowed. The ONLY thing that is encouraged is the total and unquestioning slavery to the dai.

[hypocritebohra]

Reminds me of my childhood I used to live in a building where all the tenants were Bohras, whenever some one came looknig for a address with a Mulim name we used tosay, ' Only Bohras lived here no Muslims thereby implying Bohras are not Muslims
A concerted effort is being made to isolate the Bohras from general Mulim Ummah 1.2 billion Muslims are wrong and only a handful of 600,000 odd Bohras a vast majority of whom neither know Arabic , have never read or studied the Quran with full understanding, are oblivious of the glorious history of Islam are correct as their version of Islam is only Sayenda and Ghanoo Jeevo.. Bohras will pray two rakats for Tawassul of Sayedna but hardly ever pray the Sunnat Namaaz.
The Saudis need to be informed that like Kadians etc Bohras be declared non muslim and be barred from Mecca and Madina .

[Yusuf]

not just bohras but almost whole world is allergic to miya bhai.

[Yusuf]

Reminds me of my childhood I used to live in a building where all the tenants were Bohras, whenever some one came looknig for a address with a Mulim name we used tosay, ' Only Bohras lived here no Muslims thereby implying Bohras are not Muslims
A concerted effort is being made to isolate the Bohras from general Mulim Ummah 1.2 billion Muslims are wrong and only a handful of 600,000 odd Bohras a vast majority of whom neither know Arabic , have never read or studied the Quran with full understanding, are oblivious of the glorious history of Islam are correct as their version of Islam is only Sayenda and Ghanoo Jeevo.. Bohras will pray two rakats for Tawassul of Sayedna but hardly ever pray the Sunnat Namaaz.
The Saudis need to be informed that like Kadians etc Bohras be declared non muslim and be barred from Mecca and Madina .

its a good news that hypocrites like u have left bohra fold.

[Fateh]

Reminds me of my childhood I used to live in a building where all the tenants were Bohras, whenever some one came looknig for a address with a Mulim name we used tosay, ' Only Bohras lived here no Muslims thereby implying Bohras are not Muslims
A concerted effort is being made to isolate the Bohras from general Mulim Ummah 1.2 billion Muslims are wrong and only a handful of 600,000 odd Bohras a vast majority of whom neither know Arabic , have never read or studied the Quran with full understanding, are oblivious of the glorious history of Islam are correct as their version of Islam is only Sayenda and Ghanoo Jeevo.. Bohras will pray two rakats for Tawassul of Sayedna but hardly ever pray the Sunnat Namaaz.
The Saudis need to be informed that like Kadians etc Bohras be declared non muslim and be barred from Mecca and Madina .

A famous quote for your reference -Where there is quantity there is no quality but where there is quality there is no quantity. My dear friend we dawoodi boharas are real gem of Islam.Yes we should respect to all our Muslim brothers of any sac.

[asad]

GM,

Bohras have been persecuted by Main stream Muslims whenever they are in power because of their Shia faith. Bohra history is replete with examples of torture at hands of Muslims physically and mentally. Dont go much in past and see what were the conditions in Muslim dominated areas around 40-50 years back, You should be aware about how Bohras had trouble celebrating their Eid one day before, they were even scared to wear new clothes lest they are targeted.

So when a community which is minority in minorities in India they build a cocoon around them where every thing which belongs to majority Muslims is bad, that can be bad but when i see the problems they have faced i dont blame them.

[humanbeing]

not just bohras but almost whole world is allergic to miya bhai.

……. and Bohra world is attracted to Miya Saab. They Will shell out a fortune to get the title !! whereas Miya Bhai are enjoiying the title free.

[ahmedplumber]

"Miyabhai" is a derogatory term used by bohras for all non-bohra muslims in a bid to elevate themselves above the other muslim sects. This type of bias is delibarately created by the bohra clergy in order to prevent bohras from mingling with muslims of other sects as there is a constant fear that on comparision, the bohra version of Islam would then be questioned by bohras for which they dont seem to have any meaningful answers. Bohras are hence prevented from discussing religious issues with them and also forbidden from praying in their masjids and/or listening to their bayans although this is in direct contravention with tenets of Islam which lays an emphasis on strengthening unity within the ummah. Due to this mindset, bohras in general shun the non-bohra muslims and in the bargain fail to achieve any knowledge of comparative study of religion. They have been forced to live in a cocoon like 'kuva me medak' which is unaware of the existence of vast oceans outside its tiny pond.

The biggest weapon used by the bohra clergy against them is the issue of khilafat thereby projecting all the other muslims as enemies of Ahle bayt which is nothing but a blatant lie thrust upon bohras. In fact all the 'other muslims' also rever Ahle Bayt and on the contrary address them with greater respect then the so called believers of Ahle Bayt. Other muslims or 'Miyabhais' address them as Hazrat Ali (r.a.), Nabi (s.a.w.), Hazrat Hussain (r.a.) and not as AliSAAB, NabiSAAB like bohras, a term used for ordinary mortals like policemen, municipal servants and other govt officials like Patilsaab, Shindesaab, Pawarsaab. One will never find 'Miyabhais' ever disrespecting or showering laanats on Ahle Bayts.

While a sunni/shia divide is already in existence but bohras have gone further by distancing themselves even from the mainstream shias, a sect which is supposed to love and rever Ahle Bayt just like them. This is evident from the fact that bohras are prohibited from attending shia majlis/vayez in Mohurrum although it is a different matter that one sees more bohras in Mughal masjid then even the shias. For bohras, shias too fall in the category of the second class muslims i.e. 'Miyabhais'. Hence it is evident that the hatred created by bohra clergy against sunnis with respect to khilafat issue is not the ONLY factor as otherwise why would they prevent bohras from mingling with shias also who share the same beliefs as them. There is a deeper conspiracy which is to keep the bohras ignorant with regard to the true Islamic beliefs as it helps the clergy in amassing more wealth in the name of religion without any questions being raised.

How many bohras are aware that the greatest of auliyas were not shias/bohras but nevertheless their faith was based entirely on the teachings of Mola Ali (a.s.), ALL the auliyas regard him as their peshwa, their first leader !! How many bohras are aware that the great auliya, Hazrat Khwaja Bande Nawaz (r.a.) of Gulbarga (Karnataka) was from the progeny of Imam Ali Zainul Abedin (a.s.) ? How many bohras are aware that the greatest auliya of India, Hazrat Khwaja Garib Nawaz (r.a.) traced his maternal lineage to Imam Hasan (a.s.) and paternal lineage to Imam Hussain (a.s.), hence he was from the progeny of none other but Mola Ali (a.s.) !! There are hundreds of such examples with regard to hundreds of auliyas and even though there is a bohra musafirkhana in Ajmer inspite of the city having a negligible bohra population, NO bohra ever pays a visit to the shrine of Hazrat Khwaja Garib Nawaz (r.a.). In fact when a bohra friend of mine went to Ajmer and stayed at bohra musafirkhana, he casually asked the address of the shrine to the caretaker amil to which the amil frowned upon him and told him "Tamari himmat kem thai ola musalmano ni dargah par jaava ni, su apni raudat tahera ni dargah nathi". It is a mystery as to why then a musafirkhana is still in existence although there is negligible bohra population and NO bohra dargahs within its vicinity.

There are numerous dargahs of auliyas in Ahmedabad like the Shah Alam dargah and there are holy relics of Prophet (s.a.w.) but bohras are never told about it lest the flow of bohras in their own dargahs reduces which would result in less revenue by way of galla collections and other hoobs. There is a dargah of a revered saint in Burhanpur also but hardly any bohra is aware of it. By this, I do not mean to propagate visits to other shrines but just to prove that bohras are deprived the knowledge of other muslims and great auliyas who trace their lineage to Mola Ali (a.s.), a figure whom bohras claim to rever and respect more then other muslim sects. By doing this they are even deprived of the teachings and life of these auliyas whose teachings were in perfect line with that of Panjatan Pak (a.s.). By learning more about them bohras are bound to find loopholes in the life of the present day dai and his zaadas which are diametrically opposite, a factor which could loosen the clergy's grip over them.

The clergy doesnt mind bohra's close proximity to non muslims like hindus, christians, jews, sikhs and parsis but have a BIG problem when it comes to mainstream muslims who are addressed in derogatory terms like 'Miyabhais' and 'Ola musalman', a factor which would prove harmful to them in future. There seems to be a hadith which says that Prophet (s.a.w.) has predicted the emergence of a muslim world before qayamat and if that happens then what would be the fate of bohras who are at loggerheads with other muslims and who have always stressed on a different identity away from them ? The Dai goes out of his way in establishing friendly ties with the arch enemies of muslims like Modi, Thackerey, Advani etc. who are known to be behind the brutal massacres of innocent muslim men, women and children. There is bound to emerge a muslim generation which would question these acts and pay back the bohras in the same coin. These are hard facts which needs to be pondered upon and one needs to find a remedy to cure the same and save our children from any backlash in future.

Although the hardline wahabi and taliban school of thought needs to be condemned in the strictest terms but the 51st Dai didnt have any problem in accepting a Cadillac and a Buick Car from the late saudi king and the 52nd dai even refuses to participate in the protest against demolition of holy sites in the kingdom, has anyone ever heard a line of protest from him although he promises to build a zari made of gold on the shrine of Fatema-tus-Zehra (a.s.) thereby collecting tonnes of gold since decades which could even put the american fort knoxx to shame. Hence it is a hatred of convenience which is politically motivated to adhere to the dirty politics prevalent in present day dawat. On close scrutiny one can easily conclude that the "Divide and rule" policy adapted by the dai from the britishers is a ploy to expand his financial empire in the garb of Islam simultanously keeping his followers ignorant of the true teachings of Panjatan Pak (a.s.). No comparative study of religion is permitted as no religious discussion with 'Miyabhais' is allowed. The ONLY thing that is encouraged is the total and unquestioning slavery to the dai.

Mr. GM,

you have said this once before too, but i chose to ignore it, that you may be wrong, but you have used it once again, hence let me correct you.
We refer to Nabi as RasulAllah, not Nabi Saab. We refer to Ali Maula as Ali Maula, not Ali Saab. We refer to Imam Hussain as Imam Hussain or Maula Hussain and not Hussain Saab.
So, either you are mistaken or you have been hanging out with the wrong kind of people, or you have heard some regular joe named Ali or Hussain being addressed too, or you are lying just to cast us in bad light.
I am yet to come across ANY Bohra who will refer to them as Ali Saab or Hussain Saab or Nabi Saab as you claim.

Miyabhai is an extremely derogatory term, i agree, but you cant blame just us Bohra's of it. Most Shia's and all non-Muslims refer to them as Miya Bhais, so its wrong to lay the blame sqaurely on us.
I must admit, i too am guilty of referring to them in this derogatory term, but atleast now, this site has opened my eyes to the extent that i have developed the decency and courtesy enough, to atleast now, refer to them as Sunni Muslims

As to why we dont want to be associated with them, well, its a universal fact, and you cannot escape from it that most non-Muslims would prefer to be associated with a Bohra, rather than a Sunni Muslim. I agree that this is largely due to the perception that Sunni Muslims have built around themselves as being poor and hence, criminals, dirty, etc. I do not wish to dwell on the negatives, but let it be known that India, by itself, is far more intolerant towards the Sunni Muslim and far more open towards the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim. And this i speak from personal experience and professional.
We are known to be a peace-loving community and not indulge in violence. Yes, i will agree that it is the Sunni Muslim who will be the first in line to stand up against injustice towards Islam and Dawoodi Bohras might be somewhere further down the line, but that is because we, as a culture, are prone to not be violent and will prefer to maintain a low profile, sticking to our own business (literally and metaphorically)

Yes, one will never find a Sunni Muslim ever disrespecting or showering laanats on Ahle Bayts, but that is because they harbour no hatred towards Them. A Shia and a Dawoodi Bohra, historically, blame the Sunni Muslim for the death of Imam Hussain, so it is a natural reaction to curse them...

There is truth in what you claim is the real reason that we are not allowed to mingle with other Muslim sects, and i shall hence not debate that with you. You are probably right about what the real reason is, behind discouraging us to visit other dargahs or the Mughal Masjid. But then again, the fact that there are more Bohras there, than Shias, and that too quite openly in full view, proves 2 things
a. There is no truth that we are forbidden to go there. My mum, in her Ridah, goes there in Muharram
b. All said and done, our heart is still in the right place, even though we might be discouraged from going there

About our Dais relationship with Advani, Modi and Thakeray, well, on that, i have no answer. All i can say that maybe He knows something that you and i dont. There is no personal gain for our Dai to ally Himself with them, except our own wellbeing.

[Muslim First]

Mr. GM,

you have said this once before too, but i chose to ignore it, that you may be wrong, but you have used it once again, hence let me correct you.
We refer to Nabi as RasulAllah, not Nabi Saab. We refer to Ali Maula as Ali Maula, not Ali Saab. We refer to Imam Hussain as Imam Hussain or Maula Hussain and not Hussain Saab.
So, either you are mistaken or you have been hanging out with the wrong kind of people, or you have heard some regular joe named Ali or Hussain being addressed too, or you are lying just to cast us in bad light.
I am yet to come across ANY Bohra who will refer to them as Ali Saab or Hussain Saab or Nabi Saab as you claim.

Miyabhai is an extremely derogatory term, i agree, but you cant blame just us Bohra's of it. Most Shia's and all non-Muslims refer to them as Miya Bhais, so its wrong to lay the blame sqaurely on us.
I must admit, i too am guilty of referring to them in this derogatory term, but atleast now, this site has opened my eyes to the extent that i have developed the decency and courtesy enough, to atleast now, refer to them as Sunni Muslims

As to why we dont want to be associated with them, well, its a universal fact, and you cannot escape from it that most non-Muslims would prefer to be associated with a Bohra, rather than a Sunni Muslim. I agree that this is largely due to the perception that Sunni Muslims have built around themselves as being poor and hence, criminals, dirty, etc. I do not wish to dwell on the negatives, but let it be known that India, by itself, is far more intolerant towards the Sunni Muslim and far more open towards the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim. And this i speak from personal experience and professional.
We are known to be a peace-loving community and not indulge in violence. Yes, i will agree that it is the Sunni Muslim who will be the first in line to stand up against injustice towards Islam and Dawoodi Bohras might be somewhere further down the line, but that is because we, as a culture, are prone to not be violent and will prefer to maintain a low profile, sticking to our own business (literally and metaphorically)

Yes, one will never find a Sunni Muslim ever disrespecting or showering laanats on Ahle Bayts, but that is because they harbour no hatred towards Them. A Shia and a Dawoodi Bohra, historically, blame the Sunni Muslim for the death of Imam Hussain, so it is a natural reaction to curse them...

There is truth in what you claim is the real reason that we are not allowed to mingle with other Muslim sects, and i shall hence not debate that with you. You are probably right about what the real reason is, behind discouraging us to visit other dargahs or the Mughal Masjid. But then again, the fact that there are more Bohras there, than Shias, and that too quite openly in full view, proves 2 things
a. There is no truth that we are forbidden to go there. My mum, in her Ridah, goes there in Muharram
b. All said and done, our heart is still in the right place, even though we might be discouraged from going there

About our Dais relationship with Advani, Modi and Thakeray, well, on that, i have no answer. All i can say that maybe He knows something that you and i dont. There is no personal gain for our Dai to ally Himself with them, except our own wellbeing.

Plumber Saheb

This Miyabhai would like to tell you that you are cutting all Sunni Muslims from same cloth. Grow up and go outside and look around. You will find many decent Miyabhais minding their own business. I am not able to answer your post point by Point. I cannot go into Shia Bohra- Sunni debate.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro ahmedplumber,

Firstly I appreciate the civil manner in which you enter the debate and accept your healthy criticsm if any. You have failed to understand the moot point in my post which is that the unnecessary divide is preventing bohras from having a comparative study of religion and learning and understanding the non-bohra muslim faith which like every religion does have its weaknesses and strengths. I do not expect bohras to adapt their weakness but certainly they must accept their strengths with an open mind. There are a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions about their faith which have been drilled into bohra's minds and which needs to be cleared as it would strengthen the bond between them and which is the urgent need in the present times of unrest and anti-islamic activities undertaken by the enemies of Islam. You may stay away from the tapori type muslims and the ones having the wahabi/talibanic ideology but there are also many refined and civil people who can impart islamic knowledge from their perspectives. To accept it or not is ones own prerogative but to reject them outright just out of sheer hatred and without a meaningful dialogue is very unhealthy.

Regarding the way that bohras address Panjatan Pak (a.s.), I dont deny that they certainly address them as Rasul Allah and Mola Ali but the ground reality and my interactions with many bohras is that MANY address them as SAABS and if you believe me then I know many sabak going bohras also addressing them in this manner. These same people address the dai, mansoos and zaadas in a much much respectful manner. One would have no objection in them addressing their bohra leaders respectfully because it is their personal faith but then why not show the same respect (infact more) to Panjatan Pak (a.s.) ? It is possible that you may not have encountered such attitudes for which I dont blame you.

When you talk of shias then it is a universal fact that they address the sunnis cheaply due to the long standing enimity between them on the issue of khilafat (which too is highly debatable) but then bohras do the same not only to sunnis but even to shias. For them, any non bohra muslim is a 'Miyabhai' which includes shias, this is a ground reality. Just express your desire of attending the Mughal Masjid shia vayez to any amil or zaada and see how vociferously they oppose you. There is no written farman preventing bohras from attending shia majlis just like many other farmans but there is definately an unwritten one ! I agree that bohras attending shia majlis are not reprimanded by kothar on individual basis as they dont want to project themselves as anti-shias for various reasons but the verbal prohibition is always there.

Now let me address some issues to you on a personal level........... An open minded person like you say that bohras hate sunnis because the sunnis martyred Imam Hussain (a.s.). Now isnt this an open lie considering the fact that you will hardly find any sunni praising Yazid although you will find countless who rever Imam Hussain (a.s.), mourn in the month of Mohurrum, distribute niyaz on Ashura and even attend Mohurrum vayez of sunni ulemas which you can see in many pockets of Bhendi bazar, dongri, Nagdevi st, Jogeshwari, Andheri etc., to name a few. The only ritual that they dont undertake is the matam. If you think that matam is the ONLY way to commemarate the martyrdom of Shohadas then I dont have any thing further to say. Go to any auliya's dargah and you will find that people not only commemorate Mohurrum but also mourn the shahadat of Mola Ali (a.s.) in rajab and celebrate his birthday. The number of vazifas in the name of Mola Ali (a.s.) that you will hear on a daily basis will surprise you. The number of times that they pray fateha for Panjatan Pak (a.s.) will astonish you, not to forget the qawwalis in Mola Ali's praise during mehfil-e-sama. Inspite of their strong belief and rock strong faith in Mola Ali (a.s.), show me a single auliya who has addressed himself as a shia.

Your intelligence also needs to be questioned when you indirectly and in a diplomatic manner justify the dai's ties with shaitans like Modi, Advani and Thackerey. I think you have not read my posts on the thread "Gujarat Mas genocide-The Real Truth". How can you justify a spiritual leader's closeness with butchers of muslims ? Even devout hindus have condemned Modi and helped muslims in getting justice at the cost of their lives. You are living in a world of fantasy if you believe that the dai did it for the betterment of his followers. If that was the case then why hasnt Aga Khan cajoled Modi for his follower's sake as khojas too suffered a lot in Modi raj ? Is he less intellegent then the dai ? Is he not the true well wisher of his followers ? Infact his moral and financial help to his followers is thousand times more then what the dai does. Muslim men and children were burnt alive, the women were gang raped and trishuls were pierced in their private parts, the pregnant women's stomachs were ripped open and the foetus thrown in raging fires. Had the dai draped a shawl around Modi and given him a cheque of over Rs.One crore if his own sons were burnt alive and his daughters were raped and tortured in the same manner ? Doesnt he have a moral responsibility towards the Ummat of Rasul Allah (s.a.w.) ? Cross your hearts and tell me what could be the truth !!

[hypocritebohra]

Reminds me of my childhood I used to live in a building where all the tenants were Bohras, whenever some one came looknig for a address with a Mulim name we used tosay, ' Only Bohras lived here no Muslims thereby implying Bohras are not Muslims
A concerted effort is being made to isolate the Bohras from general Mulim Ummah 1.2 billion Muslims are wrong and only a handful of 600,000 odd Bohras a vast majority of whom neither know Arabic , have never read or studied the Quran with full understanding, are oblivious of the glorious history of Islam are correct as their version of Islam is only Sayenda and Ghanoo Jeevo.. Bohras will pray two rakats for Tawassul of Sayedna but hardly ever pray the Sunnat Namaaz.
The Saudis need to be informed that like Kadians etc Bohras be declared non muslim and be barred from Mecca and Madina .

its a good news that hypocrites like u have left bohra fold.

May Allah give toufiq and wisdom to you too to leave ths Dai worshipping cult and embrace true Islam. May that day come soon on which you too give us good tidings that the Light of Allah has guided you true Islam
Look at this video as to how being disgusted with lack of tranparency and true Ilm of Islam converted to Itna Ashari scet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWvM_BRY3gYAsharoLook

[Yusuf]

its a good news that hypocrites like u have left bohra fold.

May Allah give toufiq and wisdom to you too to leave ths Dai worshipping cult and embrace true Islam. May that day come soon on which you too give us good tidings that the Light of Allah has guided you true Islam
Look at this video as to how being disgusted with lack of tranparency and true Ilm of Islam converted to Itna Ashari scet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWvM_BRY3gYAsharoLook

you got all wisdom and taufiq correct? good now stay out of it.

NEXT

[ahmedplumber]

GM bhai,

Hope i can reciprocate your civility too. Let me try

Para 1: I have not missed the moot point, in fact i completely agree that i do not know why is a comparitive not allowed. If at all we are on the right path, then it will only help to reinforce our beliefs. If not, then it can perhaps clear a lot ambiguities. So yes, i agree that it should be allowed

Para 2: Then all i can say for these "sabak-attending" Bohras is that they need to seriously wake up

Para 3: if this is the case, then perhaps it is because they cannot disinguish between a Shia and a Sunni clearly enough. I am sure if they could, they would not say it like that

Para 4: i am not saying that the Sunni Muslims should be abused for what they did and ignore that they too remember Muharram. I am saying that the cultural differences between the 2 communities and the historical enemity is what causes all this cursing

Para 5: I am ok with you questioning my intelligence. i have no problem with it. But however, if you will notice, i have written i dont know the reason behind our Dai to align Himself with these people. I am only saying that perhaps He knows something we dont.

[bohraji]

Salaam Alaikum to all.
I agree with the views of Plumber bhai. I have know muslims from Kerala, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Kashmir, Delhi, MP, Up etc as well as from Pakistan and the Middle East. Unfortunately what Plumber bhai has said, applies to most of them. There is no tahara ,Paaki, saafi at all. There are some communities who get married on Ashura, like the Sunni Bohras of Ahmedabad ! Lack of education, has drawn them into a well and they keep on sinking. Indian government gives free lunch, school bags and even uniforms . But I have seen non muslims avail the facillities as the muslim children are sent out to work,They turn to tobacco at a very young age and refuse to understand personal hygeine.
At the age of 40 I took a hiatus from work for a year recently to do a specialised course. Needless to say I was older than the professors ! and the students were as old as my nephews and neices. Unfortunately in the entire institute there was not a single muslim. I tried to help a young bohra boy with the admission and as well as job to pay for it. All this due to the co-operation of the hindu owner/ principal. Unfortunately it was the Eid holidays and the boy was not able to make it to the interview ,not once but twice !
The muslims marry at a very young age and also start having children as fast as they could. As a community Muslims are far behind and if we are not carefull, soon the top rung bohras will go a few steps down ,like the non bohra muslims, the miyabhais.

[Muslim First]

Salaam Alaikum to all.
I agree with the views of Plumber bhai. I have know muslims from Kerala, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Kashmir, Delhi, MP, Up etc as well as from Pakistan and the Middle East. Unfortunately what Plumber bhai has said, applies to most of them. There is no tahara ,Paaki, saafi at all. There are some communities who get married on Ashura, like the Sunni Bohras of Ahmedabad ! Lack of education, has drawn them into a well and they keep on sinking. Indian government gives free lunch, school bags and even uniforms . But I have seen non muslims avail the facillities as the muslim children are sent out to work,They turn to tobacco at a very young age and refuse to understand personal hygeine.
At the age of 40 I took a hiatus from work for a year recently to do a specialised course. Needless to say I was older than the professors ! and the students were as old as my nephews and neices. Unfortunately in the entire institute there was not a single muslim. I tried to help a young bohra boy with the admission and as well as job to pay for it. All this due to the co-operation of the hindu owner/ principal. Unfortunately it was the Eid holidays and the boy was not able to make it to the interview ,not once but twice !
The muslims marry at a very young age and also start having children as fast as they could. As a community Muslims are far behind and if we are not carefull, soon the top rung bohras will go a few steps down ,like the non bohra muslims, the miyabhais.

Brother
your post is nothing but pile of crap
Wasalaam

[ozmujaheed]

Salaam Alaikum to all.
I agree with the views of Plumber bhai. I have know muslims from Kerala, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Kashmir, Delhi, MP, Up etc as well as from Pakistan and the Middle East. Unfortunately what Plumber bhai has said, applies to most of them. There is no tahara ,Paaki, saafi at all. There are some communities who get married on Ashura, like the Sunni Bohras of Ahmedabad ! Lack of education, has drawn them into a well and they keep on sinking. Indian government gives free lunch, school bags and even uniforms . But I have seen non muslims avail the facillities as the muslim children are sent out to work,They turn to tobacco at a very young age and refuse to understand personal hygeine.
At the age of 40 I took a hiatus from work for a year recently to do a specialised course. Needless to say I was older than the professors ! and the students were as old as my nephews and neices. Unfortunately in the entire institute there was not a single muslim. I tried to help a young bohra boy with the admission and as well as job to pay for it. All this due to the co-operation of the hindu owner/ principal. Unfortunately it was the Eid holidays and the boy was not able to make it to the interview ,not once but twice !
The muslims marry at a very young age and also start having children as fast as they could. As a community Muslims are far behind and if we are not carefull, soon the top rung bohras will go a few steps down ,like the non bohra muslims, the miyabhais.

I am astounded at the level of discrimination and prejudice Bohras are displaying towards their fellow Muslims. what is the point?

Mates in India you may think that you are privileged and better than what you call miyabhai but once you are out of India like west, middle east or africa you are all regarded as Muslims and Indians , you are genetically Indian and look the same like a hindu or Sikh no one cares if you are Bohra, or other.

Muslims in India are known to be less educated, more likely to be discriminated and probably treated like Dalit if you think you are treated or perceived better by claiming converts from Brahmins your mistaken . But for Bohras to take advantage of the situation and ridicule is disturbing. By isolating ourselves and bribing our way to favors is not going to lasts.

So my point is rather then kicking other Muslims while they are being discriminated try supporting and helping them claim their rights and be treated as equals and prosper. If Muslims prosper so will Bohras.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro ahmedplumber,

You are more or less in agreement to what I say hence I will not take the debate further. You may disagree to a few points which is quite OK because one should not expect others to agree FULLY to one's point of view, minor disagreements are bound to happen which is quite normal. Iam glad that you have understood the broader aspects and are in agreement with me on major issues.

May Allah (swt) bless you !

[ghulam muhammed]

There are some communities who get married on Ashura, like the Sunni Bohras of Ahmedabad !

Bro bohraji,

Let me take this a bit further, you have stated that sunni BOHRAS get married on Ashura although they dont fall in the category of average 'Miyabhais' from bohras perspective. I was told that even konkani muslims get their daughters married on Ashura. Now they perfectly fit in the category of 'Miyabhais' according to bohras and hence they should be reprimanded for commiting such a blasphemous act on this holy day..... Right ???? For a moment let us forget that even Imam Hussain (a.s.) married his daughter Sakina (a.s.) with Abdulla (a.s.) in the middle of a bloody battle of karbala in which his near and dear ones were martyred mercilessly. I would leave it to the readers whether this act was justified or not as the same act, later on is looked down upon.

Now let us see what bohras do during Mohurrum........... 1) Wait anxiously for the next venue and hope that the same is an exotic locale or a shopping hub like dubai or USA so that they can get a chance of visiting these places at highly discounted rates with no visa hassles. Note:- The attraction is the PLACE of vayez rather then the vayez itself. 2) Bohras accross the globe feast on icecream, chicken, souffle, biryani as NIYAZ and FATEHA NU JAMAN although just a few seconds before pouncing on the thaal, they have been wailing and mourning the thirst and hunger of shohadas. Infact, a few decades ago during the tenure of late Mukasir Salehbhai saab, there was a bohra anjuman which hosted Ashura niyaz in Najam baug and the entry cards were literally sold for a premium. The reason being that the food was just out of this world. A series of 7 thaals were changed, each thaal having multiple kharas and mithas i.e. the thaal of chicken kharas had almost 5 different varieties of chicken, the icecream thaal had almost 7 bowls of various icecream flavours, the souffle thaal had another 5 varieties and the second last thaal had the jaman i.e. 5 to 6 different types of biryanis and pulaos. After praying fateha on all the items, the last thaal was served which was full of dryfruits. This niyaz went on for many years and many right minded bohras strongly objected to the feast in the name of niyaz and hence Mukasirsaab finally ordered the anjuman to put an end to it. Now tell me whether what you see in bohras is less joyous then the marriage of sunni bohras and konkani muslims !!!

[bohraji]

Salaam Alaikum to all.
I agree with the views of Plumber bhai. I have know muslims from Kerala, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Kashmir, Delhi, MP, Up etc as well as from Pakistan and the Middle East. Unfortunately what Plumber bhai has said, applies to most of them. There is no tahara ,Paaki, saafi at all. There are some communities who get married on Ashura, like the Sunni Bohras of Ahmedabad ! Lack of education, has drawn them into a well and they keep on sinking. Indian government gives free lunch, school bags and even uniforms . But I have seen non muslims avail the facillities as the muslim children are sent out to work,They turn to tobacco at a very young age and refuse to understand personal hygeine.
At the age of 40 I took a hiatus from work for a year recently to do a specialised course. Needless to say I was older than the professors ! and the students were as old as my nephews and neices. Unfortunately in the entire institute there was not a single muslim. I tried to help a young bohra boy with the admission and as well as job to pay for it. All this due to the co-operation of the hindu owner/ principal. Unfortunately it was the Eid holidays and the boy was not able to make it to the interview ,not once but twice !
The muslims marry at a very young age and also start having children as fast as they could. As a community Muslims are far behind and if we are not carefull, soon the top rung bohras will go a few steps down ,like the non bohra muslims, the miyabhais.

I am astounded at the level of discrimination and prejudice Bohras are displaying towards their fellow Muslims. what is the point?

Mates in India you may think that you are privileged and better than what you call miyabhai but once you are out of India like west, middle east or africa you are all regarded as Muslims and Indians , you are genetically Indian and look the same like a hindu or Sikh no one cares if you are Bohra, or other.

Muslims in India are known to be less educated, more likely to be discriminated and probably treated like Dalit if you think you are treated or perceived better by claiming converts from Brahmins your mistaken . But for Bohras to take advantage of the situation and ridicule is disturbing. By isolating ourselves and bribing our way to favors is not going to lasts.

So my point is rather then kicking other Muslims while they are being discriminated try supporting and helping them claim their rights and be treated as equals and prosper. If Muslims prosper so will Bohras.

Where have I propogated the didscrimination of muslims ? In fact it is the other way round.

[humanbeing]

GM : Well said !

Dear Bohraji

I agree and disagree with your POV. Agree for obvious reasons Muslims in India are perceived and few have really spoilt the name. But its more out of Cultural orientation and lack of awareness. I can say its more out of regional influence. In Pune Maharashtra be it Muslims / Hindu / Christians illiterate slum dweller crowd revel their favourite festivals (Eid / Diwali / Christmas) in the same fashion; Obstructive Stages with Blaring Loud speaker and obscene dancing in the middle of the road.

We shall not highlight muslims, in such regard, but any caste or community neglected by its government is responsible and also its community leaders. Bohras are culturally oriented by its Gujju heritage of being business friendly natured. However a miniscule percentage of bohra populace cannot be compared in generalization with Muslims in india.

Muslims of India are as prosperous and friendly as bohras are. There is majority of Liberal muslims in India suffering due to Extremist Minority. Negative publicity is far more stronger than positive opinions.

From India’s independence to advancements in science has muslim names in it credits, but none of Bohra. If we debate even on generic levels, Muslims will outshine in list of achievements as compared to bohras.

A personal experience :
I recently visited India for a recruitment drive :

I observed majority of the candidates were Muslims from leading medical school of India (PGI, CMC, AIMS) their humble attire and approach spoke of their intellect and integrity of securing admission without donations. They were cream of the candidates that we picked. In the entire drive, there was only one bohra doctor. I can put the ratio to 5:1.

Lets not be insensitive atleast in our approach to anyone.

[ahmedplumber]

I am astounded at the level of discrimination and prejudice Bohras are displaying towards their fellow Muslims. what is the point?

Mates in India you may think that you are privileged and better than what you call miyabhai but once you are out of India like west, middle east or africa you are all regarded as Muslims and Indians , you are genetically Indian and look the same like a hindu or Sikh no one cares if you are Bohra, or other.

Muslims in India are known to be less educated, more likely to be discriminated and probably treated like Dalit if you think you are treated or perceived better by claiming converts from Brahmins your mistaken . But for Bohras to take advantage of the situation and ridicule is disturbing. By isolating ourselves and bribing our way to favors is not going to lasts.

So my point is rather then kicking other Muslims while they are being discriminated try supporting and helping them claim their rights and be treated as equals and prosper. If Muslims prosper so will Bohras.

Hi OZ,

It seems that there is no point in discrimination other than the basic, human deadly sin of pride

Across the world, i agree, we are all Indians and Muslims, but in India, it is an open fact that Bohras are looked upon in better light than Sunni Muslims.

This could be attriubted to a couple of factors
1. Our dress code, which is normally white
2. Our quiet demeanour
3. Our business background, due to which we prefer to stay away from controversies

Just my 2 cents really.

Please note, i am not saying that these things make us better than the Sunnis Muslims, just that these things set us aside from the Sunni Muslims from the POV of most Indians

[bohraji]

Dear MF Bhai ,
Salaam Alikum.
Inshallah we will try to meet in Ahmedabd one day. I will ,Inshallah I will take you to the famed bhatyaar gali for delicious muslim fare in not so grand surroundings and if we are able to brave it in the early morning , then we should also go to kalopur to have baara handi na paaya ,tandoori roti and egg maal puva.
Apart from this I will take you to the places where you will see that what I have written is not crap. I can show you similar situations in MP and Rajasthan as well.
I have closely interacted with muslims from various schools of thought.

[bohraji]

Dear GM Bhai,
Salaam alaikum,
I totally agree with you on the moharram locations. In fact I call them tamashaas.
However it does not negate what I have said about the non bohra muslims.

[ghulam muhammed]

However it does not negate what I have said about the non bohra muslims.

Bro bohraji,

Let me sum up your objections-- There is no tahara, paaki safi at all. They turn to tobacco at a very young age and refuse to understand personal hygiene. The muslims marry at a very young age and also start having children as fast as they could.

If Iam correct then your objection is to the unhygienic and dirty conditions they live in. Well, I agree with you that some of them live in extremely filthy conditions but those cases are more highlighted because they are the ones mostly living in surrounding areas of bhendi bazar etc. where bohras are more in number hence bohra form an impression of what they see around them, have you seen effluent muslims in areas like carter road, bandra, lokhandwala complex and colaba ? They are spick and span not only in attire but even in mannerisms. Good and bad people are there in every community, not to forget the bohras. Have you seen the chawls in bohri mohalla and their cramped up rooms ? You wont find much difference between them and the ones you are speaking of. Just visit the common toilets in bohri mohalla chawls, you will have to first wash the shit which is left intact with almost 5 lotas of water before answering your call of nature. See the filthy surroundings in bohra chawls in mumbra and kandivli/dharavi slums. The situation is pathetic. Look at the bohri mohalla during ramzan which is littered with leftover foods. Dirty muslims are visible because muslims are more in number but dirty bohras are less visible because bohras form a very tiny part of the muslim community. I had no intention of dragging bohras into the controversy but because you chose to pinpoint the filthy environment of one set of community, I had to show the other side also.

People live in filthy conditions either out of laziness or out of poverty and discriminating them smells of racism. We should not shrug off someone just because his appearence doesnt match with ours, he may be having his own problems. The ones living such a lifestyle are mostly the poor ones and distancing from them smells of pride and arrogance. If Mother Theresa hadnt healed the wounds of lepers with her own hands then probably the world would not have respected and felicitated her like how it does today.

Regarding muslim children getting addicted to tobacco at an early age, yes this is also true but it seems that you have not seen bohras eating gutkhas, pan and drinking alcohol hence your views are biased.

Regarding muslims getting married at an early age, yes this is true to some extent as it was more common in the earlier days but not so in the present day modern world where there is stiff competition at the workplace and business. The abnormal increase in the cost of living is also preventing them from getting married at an early age.

You also need to visit the tekdas of surat to get a first hand experience of the bohra's living conditions. There are even cases of human trafficking and prostitution in surat and bhendi bazar areas. I will not elaborate on this as it will effect the concerned persons very badly but for your information you can preview the letter of a police inspector of surat wherein he has given a detailed account of this.

In a nutshell, my only thrust was on a healthy and meaningful dialogue with non bohra muslims which could clear a lot of misunderstandings between us on religious matters and strengthen the bonds between the 2 communities which is an urgent need in the present world. Have you ever thought as to why does the Dai or any of his represantative dont enter into religious debates with muslims of other sects. What prevents them from doing so ? Only the ones who are unsure of their own beliefs and/or the guilty ones avoid public debates. That is the reason that none of the bohra clergy has ever proposed a public debate with reformists to iron out their differences.

[Muslim First]

Across the world, i agree, we are all Indians and Muslims, but in India, it is an open fact that Bohras are looked upon in better light than Sunni Muslims.
This did not prevent Hindus from killing, looting and raping Bohras equally.

This could be attriubted to a couple of factors
1. Our dress code, which is normally white
If you had choice you would be wearing normal clothes like Miyabhais. It is not by choice. It is by order of Maulana TUS. Try to go for interview wearing your white Kurta, topi and saya.
BTW BJP wears Bhagwa and RSS wears Khakhi Chaddis.
2. Our quiet demeanour
Learned from lifelong cowering with hands folded.
3. Our business background, due to which we prefer to stay away from controversies
It's money, money money. No backbone to speak up when chips are down

Just my 2 cents really.
If you stck to plumbing it would be worth more then 2 cents
Please note, i am not saying that these things make us better than the Sunnis Muslims,
Who are you kidding
just that these things set us aside from the Sunni Muslims from the POV of most Indians
Is it not objective from top to bottom. You guys do not want to be "ola Musalman"

[humanbeing]

Dear Readers

What bohraji expressed is POV of majority of bohras, they think and are made to believe all is rosy by Kothar clergy and ofcourse human nature. Not only bohras but every community lives in a denial mode. As its leaders are creating a make-believe world of perfection.

I associate badnames of Muslims by it cultural and regional influences which is different from religious influences. But the complexity of this outlook is such, that good/bad affects of regional and cultural influence is projected as that of religious. Example : A person stays clean because religion says so, not because its common sense or beneficial to stay clean etc.

Obvious facts are Abdes Bohras are far more restrained and helpless as compared to free thinking general muslim populace. They are free to offer prayers in any masjid or place on this earth, importance of marriage is with agreement of couple and not clergy, burials are humble and hassle free, etc

However we cannot take away the credit of being humble and friendly community from bohras. General Muslims or Non muslims hold bohra in good respect out of business or social relations. Opinions of bunch of disgruntled people around bhindi bazaar or anyother places does not discredit the face of bohra community in general world.

Hatred and dislike of any faith will not lead us anywhere but cause our own doom. Its not only about muslims but opinion towards hindus, Christians or any religion or any strata of society. Respect for each other must come from within rather than superficial layers due to business and self interest needs.

[ahmedplumber]

Across the world, i agree, we are all Indians and Muslims, but in India, it is an open fact that Bohras are looked upon in better light than Sunni Muslims.
This did not prevent Hindus from killing, looting and raping Bohras equally.

This could be attriubted to a couple of factors
1. Our dress code, which is normally white
If you had choice you would be wearing normal clothes like Miyabhais. It is not by choice. It is by order of Maulana TUS. Try to go for interview wearing your white Kurta, topi and saya.
BTW BJP wears Bhagwa and RSS wears Khakhi Chaddis.
2. Our quiet demeanour
Learned from lifelong cowering with hands folded.
3. Our business background, due to which we prefer to stay away from controversies
It's money, money money. No backbone to speak up when chips are down

Just my 2 cents really.
If you stck to plumbing it would be worth more then 2 cents
Please note, i am not saying that these things make us better than the Sunnis Muslims,
Who are you kidding
just that these things set us aside from the Sunni Muslims from the POV of most Indians
Is it not objective from top to bottom. You guys do not want to be "ola Musalman"

I dont understand your problem. Here i am, trying to be objective, admitting that you guys have been given a raw deal and you still want to bite me?

Well you know what, maybe you guys deserve the bad name that you have, after all

[ahmedplumber]

I dont understand your problem. Here i am, trying to be objective, admitting that you guys have been given a raw deal and you still want to bite me?

Well you know what, maybe you guys deserve the bad name that you have, after all

THERE. HAPPY NOW? DID THAT FEED YOUR PERSECUTION COMPLEX?

[Muslim First]

I dont understand your problem. Here i am, trying to be objective, admitting that you guys have been given a raw deal and you still want to bite me?

WWell you know what, maybe you guys deserve the bad name that you have, after all

Miyabhais do not need any sympathy from turncoats who kiss feet of Namo, who even has not uttered a word of regret.

If I were in India, I would tell all "ola Musalmans" not to patronize Bohra businesses. It is better to do business with Hindus then turncoats. When chips are down they will pont out "ola Musalmans" and say here they are.

Well you know what, maybe you guys deserve the bad name that you have, after all

Yes we are responsible for our deeds and we do not turncoats to defend us.

[ahmedplumber]

Well then, we shall only return the favour by not wanting to be associated with your community Sir.

Have a pleasent weekend.