Khuzema Qutbuddin (and related topics)

[M Taha]

even common sense says when ever there is a dispute power should go to next person who is highest in position.

even in army if commander dies in war next best position person becomes leader by defacto.

Common sense & religion/faith don't go together

you are very very wrong brother, I am not muslim because I am born in muslim family but because QURAAN and ISLAAM really makes sense to me.

offcourse I was born in muslim family, but this is not a reason for me to remain muslim but my sense and concious agrees with every aspects of ISLAAM.

[adna_mumin]

A mumin is one who has an "aqeedat" which he holds firm. That firm aqeeda is that "For not a split second is the zameen void of hujjat of Khuda ta who is Haq" -> which implies no Imam will pass on without appointing his janasheen who is his hamshaan. In zaman of Satr the same holds for the Dai mutlaq.

This is where your "common sense" and army analogy do not apply brother M Taha. There is no defacto business and the new Dai does not assume by some default but by appointment by his predecessor.

[shehzada]

Nicely done adna-mumin - You did your masters bidding by coming up with a jamea translation of the word "mumin" and by default forbidding any more questions cause applying common sense or thinking shows a lack of "aqeedat" ( a big word from such an adna_mumin). Here is a problem though. The appointment by the predecessor is not crystal clear in this case for either candidates nor is this forum the property of the kothar where people can't be allowed to think or ask questions.

[AgnosticTheist]

A mumin is one who has an "aqeedat" which he holds firm. That firm aqeeda is that "For not a split second is the zameen void of hujjat of Khuda ta who is Haq" -> which implies no Imam will pass on without appointing his janasheen who is his hamshaan. In zaman of Satr the same holds for the Dai mutlaq.

This is where your "common sense" and army analogy do not apply brother M Taha. There is no defacto business and the new Dai does not assume by some default but by appointment by his predecessor.

Then Sir - why do you need those (mumin) signatures on the papers? Why submit all those memorandum to collectors all over the country? Why ask for support from politicians? Why do you need a non-muslim (using a soft word here) to testify your nass?

Where does aqeeda goes in this case? Can someone become a Dai by popular voting?

[bohrabhai]

Davedar half rasta si pacho wali nai bhagi gayo
Kem k j j police na senior ye aagal thana police ne inform kidu k hamari bahar ni guarantee chai roza na under we cant do any thing hamai andhar entry nahi kari sakta

At last maula tus ni doaa si napak ziyarat si mehrum rahyo ane aage b mehrum j rehsai
He is back to thane
Force b aavi hati
Zyada nai 10 jana hata force ma
Muminin ghana hazir thai gaya hata ane sagla ne rodat ma besva na instruction aaya hata

Look at these foul language. Can any one confirm it?

[adna_mumin]

Nicely done adna-mumin - You did your masters bidding by coming up with a jamea translation of the word "mumin" and by default forbidding any more questions cause applying common sense or thinking shows a lack of "aqeedat" ( a big word from such an adna_mumin). Here is a problem though. The appointment by the predecessor is not crystal clear in this case for either candidates nor is this forum the property of the kothar where people can't be allowed to think or ask questions.

Not by a distance did i mean to say one must refrain from applying thought. In fact quite the opposite. Apply careful thought with the ilm that is acquired with sincerity.

What i wrote as "aqeedat" is my understanding of the basis of Valayat, the first Daim of Islam according to us Bohras. If that is a "big" word somehow implying ceasing of application of thought i can use any other term that is more appropriate. So go ahead suggest what is a good word for that statement if you so like.

We must go where our hearts say with yaqeen is haq- and not because of some Worldly institutional analogy such as the Army, is my limited point.

Thank you for attributing me to the institution of jamea - i wish i had attended and learnt much much more than what least i have. And no i have no love lost for the administration. I made a similar sincere request in another thread, let us refrain from attributing motivations to each other if we can and stick to the messages in discussion.

Allah ta knows best.

[shehzada]

what "ilm" are you talking about ? the "ilm' that you can only get when you get to a certain level of your kothar propaganda? I'm sorry but I'm not falling for this trap where you can claim love for the administrators yet shy away from the administration. The institution you are defending does not allow careful thought if it goes against the views of your masters and that's a fact that you can't deny. In any case. I'm happy you have your "yaqeen" based on your faith and I have my "yaqeen" based on the facts but that does not mean that you go around preaching as to who you think a real "mumin" is.

As you said Allah ta knows best and lets leave it to that.

[Fatema MN]

An absolutely mind blowing personality and life...A must read
http://fatemidawat.com/bayan/golden-panorama/
Lots of other updates too on the http://fatemidawat.com/ site

[M Taha]

this picture alone from entire album is enough for me to take syedna khozeima as my dai, finally I am seeing what I always wanted to see in a dai.

Love compassion ilm understanding hiqmat humbleness

[M Taha]

its a bad luck of community that mazoon was sideline for years, and muffy joker team took over dawat for years, and bohras lost so much time.

[M Taha]

normally I dont play any arabic qasida specially any thing from bohras, but today I played qasida written by SKQ which is not kept on fatemidawat.com yesterday.

and amazingly my neighbour knocked me and says what was u playing, it sounds so good and soothing.

now this is what I call mojiza.

[think_for_yourself]

A mumin is one who has an "aqeedat" which he holds firm. That firm aqeeda is that "For not a split second is the zameen void of hujjat of Khuda ta who is Haq" -> which implies no Imam will pass on without appointing his janasheen who is his hamshaan. In zaman of Satr the same holds for the Dai mutlaq.

This is where your "common sense" and army analogy do not apply brother M Taha. There is no defacto business and the new Dai does not assume by some default but by appointment by his predecessor.

adna_mumin if we had heard from our Aqa Burhanuddin's lips that Mufaddal Bhaisaheb was his successor we would not be here.Thousands of Mumineen who flocked to masjid and centers all over the world to watch the "Nass" video , went home with an uneasy feeling. I personally went home feeling that I had just been taken for a ride and Mumineen would have to accept that the Dai did Nass e jali when it was Dr. Moizbhaisaheb who had done it.
Aqa Burhanuddin never did nass e jali when he had his full speech faculty because he had already pronounced Nass and was at peace. That is my aqeedah. Upon Burhanuddin Moula RA wafat, not a moment existed when there was no Dai. Qutbuddin Moula is that Dai. That is my aqeedah. My aqeedah is born out of introspection and thought over the Dai's amal and the touchstone of our Dawat, which is Misaq. I am not sure where your aqeedah stems from.

[M Taha]

Milaad Mubarak to Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin, his family and to his supporters.

[Dr Fatema]

This is my straight question to all those who are supporting SKQ - When are they going to give misaak to him.
Otherwise do not write rubbish here.

[james]

This is my straight question to all those who are supporting SKQ - When are they going to give misaak to him.
Otherwise do not write rubbish here.

You are asking this question on a wrong forum . The modern , slavery hating , reformist people don't believe in the institution of misaq in its current form . Infact , FBI is gonna look into it .

[Bohra spring]

This is my straight question to all those who are supporting SKQ - When are they going to give misaak to him.
Otherwise do not write rubbish here.

Why does SKQ need misaq from his supporters , all they need is to escort him to have access to the community facilities and allow him the pulpit.

If the followers who complain oppression are not switching sides we need to find out why ? Fear of excommunication is not enough excuse. Kothar cannot afford to excommunicate 200,000 followers .

There is something unknown to us that is holding them back. May be they have not appreciated SKQ yet. May be SKQ needs to differentiate themselves more ...they have to state they are not continuation of SMB policies, but that would be self destructive in the current climate.

[M Taha]

This is my straight question to all those who are supporting SKQ - When are they going to give misaak to him.
Otherwise do not write rubbish here.

have u already given ur misaaq? and if yes then to whome?

[james]

There is something unknown to us that is holding them back. May be they have not appreciated SKQ yet. May be SKQ needs to differentiate themselves more ...they have to state they are not continuation of SMB policies, but that would be self destructive in the current climate.

Dr Fatema ,

You see this is what I was talking about . Wrong forum to ask people to give misaq to Khuzaima . This Bohra Spring character criticizes not only Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS but also Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA . He has the idiocy to suggest that one has to differentiate oneself from the 52nd Dai RA's policies to be appreciated.

[Bohra spring]

James who did you give your misaq to ?

Differentiate SMB policies , why do you think reformist were silent before 17 Jan 2014. Search through my posts did I ever say I am an abde of SMB !

So why are you offended or surprised to come on a reformist site and experience opposing views. I think you are more of an idiot if you think this site was all praise to 52 and 53.

[salsabeel]

This is my straight question to all those who are supporting SKQ - When are they going to give misaak to him.
Otherwise do not write rubbish here.

You are asking this question on a wrong forum . The modern , slavery hating , reformist people don't believe in the institution of misaq in its current form . Infact , FBI is gonna look into it .

slavery hating and reform are both very good things with the way the current situation of dawat is. Rather then having a problem with the misaq, I feel they have a problem with the way people have been taken for a ride, and have been taken advantage of and have been extorted in the name of the misaq. I believe that SKQ's dawat, with the transparency it is offering in all areas, will propel us in the world where the community as a whole will benefit, and not just the people in power.

[Dr Fatema]

This is my straight question to all those who are supporting SKQ - When are they going to give misaak to him.
Otherwise do not write rubbish here.

have u already given ur misaaq? and if yes then to whome?

Not decided yet. Both candidates credentials are doubtful. But my husband gave his misaq to SMS as he felt going with SKQ is not worth. What about you brother M. Taha?

[M Taha]

have u already given ur misaaq? and if yes then to whome?

Not decided yet. Both candidates credentials are doubtful. But my husband gave his misaq to SMS as he felt going with SKQ is not worth. What about you brother M. Taha?

I am not in INDIA, but yes I am in contact with SKQ camp by emails.

btw what kind of worth ur husband is looking for? wealth?

[M Taha]

In situation when husband and wife give misaaq to different parties, I am sure muffy will declare such nikah void and say husband and wife are haraaam for each other, so people should take care of this.

[Being_Bohra]

Some Specifics of Vision & Philosophy of the Fatemi Dawat

•Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin is the 53rd Dai al Mutlaq of Imam uz Zaman with full authority.
•Misaq is a pledge of allegiance and obedience to the Imam and his Dai and to the laws of Shari‘at, by which one attains najaat and salvation. It is done by one’s free will for his or her najaat.
•The scale for religion is taqwa (goodness) and Ilm (knowledge), not money. Honors are achieved through khidmat of dawat and mumineen, through kindness, compassion and goodness.
•Access to the Dai is available for all mumineen, and is not exclusive for only a select few.
•Islam is a religion of Rehmat, kindness, compassion and mercy. Coercion and extortion of any kind are NOT tolerated.
•Vajebaat: Compulsory Zakat is 2.5% of money saved through the year; in other words, 2.5% of that portion of annual income which remains unspent at the end of the year. Mumineen should araz silat, najwa, khumus, nazrul maqam, kaffaarat as per their capacity.
•Najwa: Mumineen araz Najwa when they come to the Dai, as per our doctrine, but it is done as per their wish and capacity.
•Jamaat Operations: Operating under guidance and authority from the Dai, all jamaats have a fully empowered local administration, a Jamaat Committee, comprised of men and women in separate committees from the local community. Details of jamaat organization will be posted soon inshaallah.
•An annual budget will be created by the Jamaat Committee. Jamaat finances will be transparent and audited regularly. The Jamaat Committee will present accounts and budgets to their local mumineen.
•Jamaat Committee should encourage and seek active participation from mumineen.
•A central commission will investigate all complaints.
•No one has immunity: every person in the Dai’s administration is accountable to the Dai, and needs to explain his/her actions when questioned. There will be no discrimination.
•There will be no segregation. Safai Chitthis will not be color coded red, yellow and green. It is for Allah subhanahu and his wali the Imam and Dai to judge the virtues of each mumin.
•There will be no persecution of people under any circumstances. It is Mola Ali’sSA hidayat to conceal another mumin’s faults. Publicly exposing a mumin’s faults is not acceptable.
•Raza for darees, majlis, vajebaat, or similar issues, will not be withheld on the basis of other cited shortcomings. It is for the Allah Subhanahu to judge and forgive. Mumineen will not be stopped from doing their farizats or supplementary hasanats.
•Raza for dafan must not be denied. Special consideration should be made for those who cannot afford basic dues. Representatives must deal with these situations with sensitivity and compassion.
•People are encouraged to attend Dawat majalis. But there will be no scanning of identity cards or reporting of attendance at majlises and other jamaat events.
•Business: While keeping within Shariat rules at all times, mumineen are encouraged to pursue a dynamic business outlook. Riba is Haram. In present day economy there are many ways to conduct business within the conformity of shari’at laws. Any guidance required in this matter will be provided by contacting Fatemi-Dawat office.

[Fakhruddinsuratwala]

Some Specifics of Vision & Philosophy of the Fatemi Dawat

•Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin is the 53rd Dai al Mutlaq of Imam uz Zaman with full authority.

OK Accepted.

•Misaq is a pledge of allegiance and obedience to the Imam and his Dai and to the laws of Shari‘at, by which one attains najaat and salvation. It is done by one’s free will for his or her najaat.

How and examples have to be cited from History.


•The scale for religion is taqwa (goodness) and Ilm (knowledge), not money. Honors are achieved through khidmat of dawat and mumineen, through kindness, compassion and goodness.

Why SKQ has claimed the Dawat E Hadiyah Trust? If it is not about money why claim the trust.

•Access to the Dai is available for all mumineen, and is not exclusive for only a select few.
You know that this temporary if at all the whole thing gets its momentum agin the the poor and the average bohra will be forgotten.

•Islam is a religion of Rehmat, kindness, compassion and mercy. Coercion and extortion of any kind are NOT tolerated.
Time will show.

•Vajebaat: Compulsory Zakat is 2.5% of money saved through the year; in other words, 2.5% of that portion of annual income which remains unspent at the end of the year. Mumineen should araz silat, najwa, khumus, nazrul maqam, kaffaarat as per their capacity.

Will there be no ziyafat of SKQ or no fixed Salaam. No Talakki( finally I got the word right I hope) Will the poorest of the poor can have SKQ at his home.

•Najwa: Mumineen araz Najwa when they come to the Dai, as per our doctrine, but it is done as per their wish and capacity.

Ok that answers my previous question partially.

•Jamaat Operations: Operating under guidance and authority from the Dai, all jamaats have a fully empowered local administration, a Jamaat Committee, comprised of men and women in separate committees from the local community. Details of jamaat organization will be posted soon inshaallah.
Jamaat Committee will be appointed on what basis? Will there be sheikh or Mullah of Ilm as we have Shiekhs here who cant say Azaan properly.

•An annual budget will be created by the Jamaat Committee. Jamaat finances will be transparent and audited regularly. The Jamaat Committee will present accounts and budgets to their local mumineen.
who will audit them? are they ready to appoint E&Y or some noted name.

•Jamaat Committee should encourage and seek active participation from mumineen.
Explore more on how and which manner...

•A central commission will investigate all complaints.
this is really impressive but what is the SOP of correction.?

•No one has immunity: every person in the Dai’s administration is accountable to the Dai, and needs to explain his/her actions when questioned. There will be no discrimination.

Will this include his sons or grand sons or son in laws?

•There will be no segregation. Safai Chitthis will not be color coded red, yellow and green. It is for Allah subhanahu and his wali the Imam and Dai to judge the virtues of each mumin.

this is nice..some stationary supplier loss...but this is nice...

•There will be no persecution of people under any circumstances. It is Mola Ali’sSA hidayat to conceal another mumin’s faults. Publicly exposing a mumin’s faults is not acceptable.

Than how they will rectify Mumin?

•Raza for darees, majlis, vajebaat, or similar issues, will not be withheld on the basis of other cited shortcomings. It is for the Allah Subhanahu to judge and forgive. Mumineen will not be stopped from doing their farizats or supplementary hasanats.
****Excellent*****

•Raza for dafan must not be denied. Special consideration should be made for those who cannot afford basic dues. Representatives must deal with these situations with sensitivity and compassion.
this doesnt even need a mention. If this is the case now than in 80's and 90's when this was practiced so frequently on many why Mazoon e Dawaat was quiet.

•People are encouraged to attend Dawat majalis. But there will be no scanning of identity cards or reporting of attendance at majlises and other jamaat events.
This sounds like "Reasos to beleive SKQ"

•Business: While keeping within Shariat rules at all times, mumineen are encouraged to pursue a dynamic business outlook. Riba is Haram. In present day economy there are many ways to conduct business within the conformity of shari’at laws. Any guidance required in this matter will be provided by contacting Fatemi-Dawat office.

Will they accept the pricinples like Murabha, Musharakah, Mudaraba, Istasna or Ijara concepts? Presently Shezada Mufaddal Saheb doesnt accept this pricinples. Will people made to understand this concepts.

[mohamedshah]

I believe Islamic Finance concepts like Murabha, Musharaka, and Ijara will be accepted by SKQ as it allows us to raise finance and access financial services in a Sharia Compliant manner. Islamic Finance is Riba free not cost free. I believe Fakhruddin Properties - Owned one of the leading Dawoodi Bohra families from Dubai have also done Sukuk issues to Finance its projects http://www.fakhruddinholdings.com/en/br ... properties . I have also done for my projects. My MBA dissertation was on Risk Management in Islamic Finance.

[tasneempati]

Can any one tell who is appointed as Mazoon and Mukasir for SKQ camp ????????

and who is actually running the Muffi camp? is it his brother SQJ or is it his wife (and her family) who are actually pulling the strings?

Shehzada they are same.. belongs to one family only. Both are making adna-mumins fool. ( A mumin is born fool & like to die fool- it is in our blood.)

[New]

I had already posted that the SKQ mission is nothing but an old medicine in a new bottle, more pallatable and less bitter indeed a cure for anything? A zada is a zada is a zada and an adna is an adna is an adna, it is not in our blood but in our genes (DNA). Why the fatemidawat website refers all zadas as shehzada bhaisaab? They may have Ph.Ds. but who made them zadas? God's gift to us.

[M Taha]

I had already posted that the SKQ mission is nothing but an old medicine in a new bottle, more pallatable and less bitter indeed a cure for anything? A zada is a zada is a zada and an adna is an adna is an adna, it is not in our blood but in our genes (DNA). Why the fatemidawat website refers all zadas as shehzada bhaisaab? They may have Ph.Ds. but who made them zadas? God's gift to us.

I dont think they will kill you if you call them DR or may be just BHAI?

why dont u email them and clarify your doubts? I think thats the right thing to do.

[fulan ibn fulan]

KQ definately doesn't like it when you don't refer to them as doctor. Have you not seen the video where they don't referto BT as Dr and he starts waving his hands around telling them to correct it. So while they may not kill you I am sure they will ask for forgiveness and possibly some dirty looks as well