Nurse accused of FGM ‘horrified’ when child protection workers investigated
Court hears former nurse at centre of Australia’s first FGM trial panicked because she ‘thought she had broken the law by touching the girls genitals without medical reason’
The New South Wales supreme court where Australia’s first prosecution of female genital mutilation has been taking place.
A former nurse accused of carrying out female genital mutilation on two sisters has described her actions as “allowing the skin to sniff the steel” and spoke of being horrified when child protection workers became involved.
The mother of the two girls, who are known as C1 and C2, and the former nurse, KM, are accused of carrying out FGM on the sisters when they were each aged seven years old in a “khatna” ceremony.
It is the first prosecution of FGM in Australia and KM was called to the stand of the New South Wales supreme court on Tuesday to give evidence about the ceremonies.
KM told the court she at first refused when asked to carry out khatna by the girls’ mother, known as A2, concerned that it was not legal in Australia, but relented.
She said part of the ceremony included placing steel forceps on the genitals “allowing the skin to sniff the steel”.
KM allegedly undertook khatna on the older girl, C1, in Woollongong between 2010 and 2011 and said the girl was a bit anxious about the ceremony and was naked from the waist down lying on a bed when KM entered the room.
“She said ‘it hurt me’, my hands were trembling. I’m insulin dependent diabetic and it was way past my lunchtime ... I may have touched her a bit harder on one side because my hands were trembling and that’s when she said ‘it hurt me Mum’,” KM said.
KM said she had discussed the khatna with the girls’ mother, but not their father.
“We don’t talk about these things to men,” she said.
Asked why she decided to carry out the ceremonies after at first being hesitant, KM responded: “I felt I was helping [the girls’ mother]. It’s an age-old ritual that’s been carried out. Why? I have never found out. When my grandmother pulled me over and said now you have a daughter and this is the ceremony they have to go through, I never asked my grandmother as to why, she explained to me this is the way it has to be done.”
KM said when A2 rang her to tell her the Department of Community Services (Docs) and police were investigating she was worried.
“I was horrified, because I thought if Docs have come then I must have done something wrong,” she said. “Because I’d done the ceremony and I thought it could have been illegal in this country, though I did not think that at the time when I was doing it.”
KM’s barrister, Stuart Bouveng, said when police began investigating, KM panicked because she “thought she had broken the law by touching the girls genitals without medical reason”.
During evidence on Tuesday, the doctor who examined the two sisters said it was possible they had been mutilated but she could not conclude one way or the other.
Dr Susan Marks, a paediatrician and head of the child protection unit at Westmead children’s hospital, examined the girls after police began investigating. She could not “visualise” the hood of the clitoris on either girl and said it was possible it had been cut or was simply tucked behind the hood.
There was no obvious scarring but Marks said it was possible it could have healed.
“I can’t answer the question if it’s normal or abnormal [not to be able to visualise the clitoris] because it could be either,” she said.
Marks said there was a lot of medical opinion in literature that says injuries to the genital area could heal without leaving a scar.
She was also questioned on how much blood there would be if the clitoris of a seven-year-old girl was cut
“If doing a procedure and you did a cut and there’s bleeding you would use a swab or cotton,” she said when asked what the volume of blood would be to deal with.
“There would be bleeding but there wouldn’t necessarily be much at all.”
Marks said she did not find an injury in the examination of either girl and it was possible there was no injury.
She also could not exclude the possibility of type one or type four FGM. Type one is partial removal of the clitoris while type four is any harmful procedure done for non-medical reasons that is not included in other definitions of FGM.
The prosecution closed its case on Tuesday after almost six weeks of evidence.
Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Woman accused of FGM of sisters 'told their father to say they got hurt playing'
The woman allegedly carried out female genital mutilation on the two sisters when they were each aged seven in ‘khatna’ ceremonies between 2010 and 2012
Supreme Court of New South Wales
In phone conversations recorded by police, the father said the girls were being taken for gynaecological examinations at Sydney’s Westmead children’s hospital.
Bridie Jabour
@bkjabour
Tuesday 27 October 2015 14.00 AEDT Last modified on Tuesday 27 October 2015 14.03 AEDT
A woman accused of carrying out female genital mutilation on two young sisters told their father if a doctor noticed any injury he should say the girls had hurt themselves playing, a court heard.
Nurse accused of FGM ‘horrified’ when child protection workers investigated
Read more
The woman, known as KM, is facing trial alongside the mother of the two girls in New South Wales supreme court in Australia’s first prosecution of FGM.
The woman is accused of carrying out FGM on the sisters when they were each aged seven years old in a “khatna” ceremony some time between 2010 and 2012. She says she simply touched the girls’ genital areas with forceps as a symbolic part of the ceremony.
In phone conversations recorded between KM and the father of the girls, the father told KM the girls were being taken for gynaecological examinations at Sydney’s Westmead children’s hospital in 2012 on the orders of police.
When the father asked if the examinations would show anything KM responded: “No, no, because the way I do, nobody knows even a little bit.”
“No one knows even anything happened there, if they ask say kids can play on swing, they play in the garden, graze can happen if they fall,” she said according to an interpretation of the phone call.
KM was also recorded saying she did not want to go to jail.
“At my age I don’t want to go sit down in a jail,” she said.
Father in FGM trial tells court he lied to police about what he knew of ceremony
Read more
When asked by the prosecution if KM was giving the girls’ father an excuse in case a doctor found an injury on their genitals, KM said they were just having a general discussion.
“If they come up with any injuries then it was not me ... I don’t do it that way,” she said, referring to not cutting the young girls.
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In a phone call recorded by police, KM was confident no injury would be found and when asked by crown prosecutor Nanette Williams why that was so KM responded: “I do symbolic forceps ceremony, there will be no injury.”
The medical examination of the two girls was inconclusive with the doctor finding while it was possible the girls’ clitorises could have been cut or partially removed, there was no scarring or evidence it had happened.
The court is now sitting in front of an 11-person jury after one was discharged on Tuesday on medical grounds.
KM has previously told the court the “khatna” ceremony involved “the skin to sniff the steel” when explaining why she used forceps.
The two sisters, known as C1 and C2, have both given evidence with C1 saying she was told to imagine herself as a princess in a garden when the alleged FGM took place and C2 saying she felt “hurting” in her “bottom” during it.
The accused are members of the the Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim community and are facing trial along with a high ranking member of the community’s clergy, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri.
The trial continues
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
For the readers there is ruling placed and end of the case will be evident why the accused are called "A1 A2 , children as "C1,C2", nurse as "KM" but all the while the Amil with full name published.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
FGM trial: accused developed technique that would leave no scarring,
Defendant an experienced ‘khatna’ practitioner who was calculated in her approach, crown prosecutor says in closing address
The New South Wales supreme court in Sydney
The New South Wales supreme court in Sydney. Three people are on trial for allegedly carrying out female genital mutilation on two sisters between 2010 and 2012. Photograph: Tracey Nearmy/AAP
Bridie Jabour
@bkjabour
Thursday 29 October 2015 13.20 AEDT
The woman who allegedly carried out female genital mutilation on two sisters developed a technique that would leave no scarring and told them to close their eyes so they could not properly report on her, a court has heard.
The crown prosecutor in the first FGM trial in Australia used her closing address in the New South Wales supreme court to accuse the woman, known as KM, of being an experienced “khatna” practitioner who was calculated in her approach.
Woman accused of FGM of sisters 'told their father to say they got hurt playing'
KM, along with the girls’ mother and a senior cleric in their Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim community, is on trial for allegedly carrying out FGM on two sisters between 2010 and 2012, when they were about seven years old.
The court has heard the older girl, known as C1, allegedly underwent the khatna ceremony at the Wollongong home of KM between 2010 and 2011. That the ceremony took place is not in dispute but the case centres around whether the girl was cut on the clitoris as part of khatna or “touched” with a pair of forceps in a symbolic way.
Her younger sister, C2, allegedly had her khatna ceremony in western Sydney.
When the alleged FGM took place KM told C1 to close her eyes and imagine she was a princess in a garden while she was lying naked from the waist down on a bed, the court has heard.
“Not only did it allow [C1] to indulge this very clearly bright girl’s imagination, how convenient for KM that in one way she [C1] would be deprived of that visual sense of being able to see what was being done to her,” the crown prosecutor Nanette Williams said in her closing remarks on Thursday.
“With her eyes closed she would never be able to report what she saw and she would never be able to explain what was seen happening to her.
“If it was a purely symbolic ceremony why did [C1] need to close her eyes? Why did [C1] need to distract herself? Imagine herself somewhere where she was supposed to be?
“You would think if it was symbolic ceremony with prayers being said then she would be invited to be in the moment, to share the moment. Instead she was asked to dissociate herself from what was happening by engaging in that active imaginative process.”
Medical examination of both sisters has been inconclusive, with a doctor finding that although it was possible both girls had been cut on their clitorises, or had part of their clitorises removed, there was no scarring to prove it.
Williams alleged this was because KM was a “very experienced” khatna practitioner in the Dawoodi Bohra community and had perfected a technique that would leave no scarring, the court heard.
“When you look at all of [C1’s] evidence it is consistent with being a khatna procedure involving a cut or injury to her clitoris and it was a not a benign procedure,” Williams said. “She has spoken elegantly, forcefully and powerfully that what was done to her was a khatna procedure involving injury to her clitoris.”
The trial has entered its seventh week, with KM giving evidence in the past week. A recorded phone call between her and the father of the girls was played to the court in which KM told the father to say the girls had hurt themselves playing if any injury was found.
The trial continues.
Defendant an experienced ‘khatna’ practitioner who was calculated in her approach, crown prosecutor says in closing address
The New South Wales supreme court in Sydney
The New South Wales supreme court in Sydney. Three people are on trial for allegedly carrying out female genital mutilation on two sisters between 2010 and 2012. Photograph: Tracey Nearmy/AAP
Bridie Jabour
@bkjabour
Thursday 29 October 2015 13.20 AEDT
The woman who allegedly carried out female genital mutilation on two sisters developed a technique that would leave no scarring and told them to close their eyes so they could not properly report on her, a court has heard.
The crown prosecutor in the first FGM trial in Australia used her closing address in the New South Wales supreme court to accuse the woman, known as KM, of being an experienced “khatna” practitioner who was calculated in her approach.
Woman accused of FGM of sisters 'told their father to say they got hurt playing'
KM, along with the girls’ mother and a senior cleric in their Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim community, is on trial for allegedly carrying out FGM on two sisters between 2010 and 2012, when they were about seven years old.
The court has heard the older girl, known as C1, allegedly underwent the khatna ceremony at the Wollongong home of KM between 2010 and 2011. That the ceremony took place is not in dispute but the case centres around whether the girl was cut on the clitoris as part of khatna or “touched” with a pair of forceps in a symbolic way.
Her younger sister, C2, allegedly had her khatna ceremony in western Sydney.
When the alleged FGM took place KM told C1 to close her eyes and imagine she was a princess in a garden while she was lying naked from the waist down on a bed, the court has heard.
“Not only did it allow [C1] to indulge this very clearly bright girl’s imagination, how convenient for KM that in one way she [C1] would be deprived of that visual sense of being able to see what was being done to her,” the crown prosecutor Nanette Williams said in her closing remarks on Thursday.
“With her eyes closed she would never be able to report what she saw and she would never be able to explain what was seen happening to her.
“If it was a purely symbolic ceremony why did [C1] need to close her eyes? Why did [C1] need to distract herself? Imagine herself somewhere where she was supposed to be?
“You would think if it was symbolic ceremony with prayers being said then she would be invited to be in the moment, to share the moment. Instead she was asked to dissociate herself from what was happening by engaging in that active imaginative process.”
Medical examination of both sisters has been inconclusive, with a doctor finding that although it was possible both girls had been cut on their clitorises, or had part of their clitorises removed, there was no scarring to prove it.
Williams alleged this was because KM was a “very experienced” khatna practitioner in the Dawoodi Bohra community and had perfected a technique that would leave no scarring, the court heard.
“When you look at all of [C1’s] evidence it is consistent with being a khatna procedure involving a cut or injury to her clitoris and it was a not a benign procedure,” Williams said. “She has spoken elegantly, forcefully and powerfully that what was done to her was a khatna procedure involving injury to her clitoris.”
The trial has entered its seventh week, with KM giving evidence in the past week. A recorded phone call between her and the father of the girls was played to the court in which KM told the father to say the girls had hurt themselves playing if any injury was found.
The trial continues.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
The conversation between the woman and the sheikh, intercepted by NSW Police, was played in the Supreme Court on Tuesday, and a written translation from Gujarati and Arabic to broken English was given to the jury to read.
http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/female-genital- ... js7ue.html
Note article mentions dawat zaban and maula ni dua translated in English
http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/female-genital- ... js7ue.html
Note article mentions dawat zaban and maula ni dua translated in English
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
young girl in Australia recalled how she was told to imagine that she was "a princess in a garden" before she was forced to go through female genital mutilation at the age of seven in 2009. The unidentified girl belongs to a family that is part of the Dawoodi Bohra community in Sydney, which is a branch of Shia Islam.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/australia-seve ... al-1520173
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/australia-seve ... al-1520173
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Final stretch
09 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
10 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
11 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
12 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
13 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney Unassigned -
09 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
10 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
11 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
12 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney King St Building
Court 5 King Street Sydney 3
13 Nov 10:00 am 2012/00285639 R v SHABBIR MOHAMMEDBHAI VAZIRI Criminal Supreme Court Trial
Justice P Johnson
Supreme Court Sydney Unassigned -
-
qutbiranglaya
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Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Sydney
All three found guilty
Sentencing early Feb 2016
Full report to follow
All three found guilty
Sentencing early Feb 2016
Full report to follow
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
This is a major blow to the conservatives. Perhaps the beginning of the end of Khatna.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Australia’s first prosecution of a female genital mutilation case ends in guilty verdict over procedures on girls when they were about seven years old
A retired nurse and the mother of two young girls have each been found guilty of carrying out female genital mutilation in Australia’s
The mother and the nurse, who was referred to as KM, were both found guilty of carrying out FGM on each sister between 2009 and 2012 by a jury in the NSW supreme court on Thursday.
Another defendant, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, a spiritual leader in the Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim sect, was found guilty of being an accessory after the fact by attempting to help cover up the FGM after police began investigating.
The FGM had been carried out on the sisters, now aged 10 and 12, when they were each about seven years old.
The older sister, known as C1, underwent FGM in the Wollongong home of a member of their community in a ceremony known as “khatna”. Her younger sister’s FGM was carried out in the family’s western Sydney home.
After the guilty verdict was delivered it was revealed that while the trial had been under way, the father of the girls had received an award for his commitment to the Dawoodi Bohra community.
C1 was told to imagine she was a “princess in a garden” while FGM was carried out on her by KM after her mother asked KM to perform the khatna ceremony.
The girl’s grandmother was also in the room and prayers from the Koran were read while the ceremony took place.
In each case the girl lay down on a bed naked from the waist down and was told to close her eyes while KM cut their clitorises with a silver tool. The girls suffered either type one or type four FGM with a cut or partial removal of their clitoreses which did not leave scar.
Justice Peter Johnson granted bail to all three despite the opposition of crown prosecutor Nanette Williams who wanted them held until sentencing on 5 February.
They each face seven years in jail.
Williams called detective sergeant Eugene Stek to give evidence opposing the bail saying the flight risk was too great. He also spoke about their increased standing in the community because of the trial.
The court heard all three had travelled overseas a number of times when they were on bail and had returned each time.
“She’s [KM] a senior member of the Dawoodi Bohra community and has a great network in respect to that community, there is a network of orthodox followers who fully support of FGM and the fact she has been convicted only enhances [that] they would do anything to protect her and assist her in fleeing,” he said.
Stek said Vaziri was arrested because he was planning to fly to India the same day. Vaziri’s counsel, Robert Sutherland SC, said he was travelling on a return ticket with his wife for an eye operation.
The mother, aged 38, and KM, aged 72, had each travelled overseas on bail and returned to Australia.
The mother’s parents live in Africa and she is in frequent contact with them.
“As an orthodox member of community being fully supported worldwide by members of the community, we believe strongly they will also help her flee the jurisdiction if the opportunity presents,” Stek said.
Police also stated concerns about the trio continuing to influence people to carry out FGM.
“The other concern is the continual, in my opinion, pressure they put other members of the community to keep FGM quiet, to continue the status quo and fight this until it goes away and everything will be alright,” Stek said.
Johnson said the flight risk could be mitigated and ordered all three surrender their passports with Vaziri asked to report to police six days a week.
The women will report twice a week.
A retired nurse and the mother of two young girls have each been found guilty of carrying out female genital mutilation in Australia’s
The mother and the nurse, who was referred to as KM, were both found guilty of carrying out FGM on each sister between 2009 and 2012 by a jury in the NSW supreme court on Thursday.
Another defendant, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, a spiritual leader in the Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim sect, was found guilty of being an accessory after the fact by attempting to help cover up the FGM after police began investigating.
The FGM had been carried out on the sisters, now aged 10 and 12, when they were each about seven years old.
The older sister, known as C1, underwent FGM in the Wollongong home of a member of their community in a ceremony known as “khatna”. Her younger sister’s FGM was carried out in the family’s western Sydney home.
After the guilty verdict was delivered it was revealed that while the trial had been under way, the father of the girls had received an award for his commitment to the Dawoodi Bohra community.
C1 was told to imagine she was a “princess in a garden” while FGM was carried out on her by KM after her mother asked KM to perform the khatna ceremony.
The girl’s grandmother was also in the room and prayers from the Koran were read while the ceremony took place.
In each case the girl lay down on a bed naked from the waist down and was told to close her eyes while KM cut their clitorises with a silver tool. The girls suffered either type one or type four FGM with a cut or partial removal of their clitoreses which did not leave scar.
Justice Peter Johnson granted bail to all three despite the opposition of crown prosecutor Nanette Williams who wanted them held until sentencing on 5 February.
They each face seven years in jail.
Williams called detective sergeant Eugene Stek to give evidence opposing the bail saying the flight risk was too great. He also spoke about their increased standing in the community because of the trial.
The court heard all three had travelled overseas a number of times when they were on bail and had returned each time.
“She’s [KM] a senior member of the Dawoodi Bohra community and has a great network in respect to that community, there is a network of orthodox followers who fully support of FGM and the fact she has been convicted only enhances [that] they would do anything to protect her and assist her in fleeing,” he said.
Stek said Vaziri was arrested because he was planning to fly to India the same day. Vaziri’s counsel, Robert Sutherland SC, said he was travelling on a return ticket with his wife for an eye operation.
The mother, aged 38, and KM, aged 72, had each travelled overseas on bail and returned to Australia.
The mother’s parents live in Africa and she is in frequent contact with them.
“As an orthodox member of community being fully supported worldwide by members of the community, we believe strongly they will also help her flee the jurisdiction if the opportunity presents,” Stek said.
Police also stated concerns about the trio continuing to influence people to carry out FGM.
“The other concern is the continual, in my opinion, pressure they put other members of the community to keep FGM quiet, to continue the status quo and fight this until it goes away and everything will be alright,” Stek said.
Johnson said the flight risk could be mitigated and ordered all three surrender their passports with Vaziri asked to report to police six days a week.
The women will report twice a week.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Br Oz,
Indeed its a Fateh Mubeen for all of us and credit goes to you for relentlessly pursuing this matter.
I am sorry for the three individuals but this had to happen for the Bohras specially in the western world to atleast stop this barbaric practice.
Indeed its a Fateh Mubeen for all of us and credit goes to you for relentlessly pursuing this matter.
I am sorry for the three individuals but this had to happen for the Bohras specially in the western world to atleast stop this barbaric practice.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
The 59-year-old, who is not an Australian citizen, allegedly made plans to leave the country just as police were preparing to swoop.
"The investigation was really hotting up at that time," Sergeant Eugene Stek told the Sydney court during a brief bail hearing on Thursday.
"He'd arranged for another senior member of the community ... to pick him up very early in the morning.
"He told him to be very quiet about it."
FTBA
Three people convicted of mutilating the genitals of two girls will be released into the community - despite evidence one of them made plans to flee before he was arrested.
NSW Supreme Court Justice Peter Johnson made the decision to continue bail for a high-ranking member of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, as well as a retired nurse and another woman, on Thursday afternoon.
The two women, neither of whom can be named, were responsible for cutting the two sisters' clitorises in separate incidents in Sydney when the girls were aged about seven.
The nine-week trial heard the retired nurse carried out the acts in 2009 and 2012.
Vaziri was found guilty on a charge of accessory after the fact.
The 59-year-old, who is not an Australian citizen, allegedly made plans to leave the country just as police were preparing to swoop.
"The investigation was really hotting up at that time," Sergeant Eugene Stek told the Sydney court during a brief bail hearing on Thursday.
"He'd arranged for another senior member of the community ... to pick him up very early in the morning.
"He told him to be very quiet about it."
But Vaziri's barrister Robert Sutherland SC, who also acts for one of the women, told the court those travel plans related to treatment for a medical issue.
Sgt Stek also warned that other members of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community "fully supported" female genital mutilation and that the offenders' actions would be celebrated.
"The fact that (the retired nurse) has been convicted will only further enhance that support from those other members of the community, who I believe will do anything to assist her in fleeing," he told the court.
But Justice Johnson ruled that the trio of offenders be allowed to walk free from court, on the condition that they surrender their passports and report to police several times a week.
In addition, the elder of the two women "must not in any way conduct or facilitate female genital mutilation" upon any person.
Justice Johnson said it was a "novel case", in that it was the first time that genital mutilation offences had been argued at trial in the 20 years that they have been on the law books.
The three defendants will not be sentenced until the new year.
Mr Sutherland has told the court the level of the injuries suffered by the victims "falls at the lower end of the spectrum" and that a sentence other than full-time custody may be appropriate.
Even if the offenders do serve time, however, they will face a maximum penalty of seven years' imprisonment on each count, because their offences were committed before new laws pushed the applicable maximum terms up to 21 years.
"The investigation was really hotting up at that time," Sergeant Eugene Stek told the Sydney court during a brief bail hearing on Thursday.
"He'd arranged for another senior member of the community ... to pick him up very early in the morning.
"He told him to be very quiet about it."
FTBA
Three people convicted of mutilating the genitals of two girls will be released into the community - despite evidence one of them made plans to flee before he was arrested.
NSW Supreme Court Justice Peter Johnson made the decision to continue bail for a high-ranking member of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, as well as a retired nurse and another woman, on Thursday afternoon.
The two women, neither of whom can be named, were responsible for cutting the two sisters' clitorises in separate incidents in Sydney when the girls were aged about seven.
The nine-week trial heard the retired nurse carried out the acts in 2009 and 2012.
Vaziri was found guilty on a charge of accessory after the fact.
The 59-year-old, who is not an Australian citizen, allegedly made plans to leave the country just as police were preparing to swoop.
"The investigation was really hotting up at that time," Sergeant Eugene Stek told the Sydney court during a brief bail hearing on Thursday.
"He'd arranged for another senior member of the community ... to pick him up very early in the morning.
"He told him to be very quiet about it."
But Vaziri's barrister Robert Sutherland SC, who also acts for one of the women, told the court those travel plans related to treatment for a medical issue.
Sgt Stek also warned that other members of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community "fully supported" female genital mutilation and that the offenders' actions would be celebrated.
"The fact that (the retired nurse) has been convicted will only further enhance that support from those other members of the community, who I believe will do anything to assist her in fleeing," he told the court.
But Justice Johnson ruled that the trio of offenders be allowed to walk free from court, on the condition that they surrender their passports and report to police several times a week.
In addition, the elder of the two women "must not in any way conduct or facilitate female genital mutilation" upon any person.
Justice Johnson said it was a "novel case", in that it was the first time that genital mutilation offences had been argued at trial in the 20 years that they have been on the law books.
The three defendants will not be sentenced until the new year.
Mr Sutherland has told the court the level of the injuries suffered by the victims "falls at the lower end of the spectrum" and that a sentence other than full-time custody may be appropriate.
Even if the offenders do serve time, however, they will face a maximum penalty of seven years' imprisonment on each count, because their offences were committed before new laws pushed the applicable maximum terms up to 21 years.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Photos
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... itals.html
When the little girl appeared on the courtroom television screen, Justice Peter Johnson removed his horsehair wig.
The NSW Supreme Court judge asked the three barristers acting in Australia's first female genital mutilation trial to do the same, to make the nine-year-old witness, known as C2, feel at ease.
"I don't think it will have a magical effect, but I hope it will make us look a little more human," Justice Johnson told the jury.
It was a poignant act that symbolised the youth of C2 and her sister C1, the victims of the mutilation, and the extremely sensitive nature of the things they were to talk about, via video link from another room.
Ozdundee words. You foolish heartless bohras see the difference how gentle and compassionate the judge is that out of respect child comfort compromised his ritual took of his wig when dealing with a child, while you so called mothers and daughters shia of Fatema drag your little daughters to brutality and have audacity to find scriptures to defend your barbaric practise. This is really sad.
It is even more sad the this heaven gatekeeper leaders that you worship.both Qutbuddin and Muffy ... ..have not one single ounce of feeling or care to protect their control to make any public comment to lead the community and make the change. Shame on you leaders. it is time to eradicate this fgm, do it via grassroot revolt or just ignore the clergy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... itals.html
When the little girl appeared on the courtroom television screen, Justice Peter Johnson removed his horsehair wig.
The NSW Supreme Court judge asked the three barristers acting in Australia's first female genital mutilation trial to do the same, to make the nine-year-old witness, known as C2, feel at ease.
"I don't think it will have a magical effect, but I hope it will make us look a little more human," Justice Johnson told the jury.
It was a poignant act that symbolised the youth of C2 and her sister C1, the victims of the mutilation, and the extremely sensitive nature of the things they were to talk about, via video link from another room.
Ozdundee words. You foolish heartless bohras see the difference how gentle and compassionate the judge is that out of respect child comfort compromised his ritual took of his wig when dealing with a child, while you so called mothers and daughters shia of Fatema drag your little daughters to brutality and have audacity to find scriptures to defend your barbaric practise. This is really sad.
It is even more sad the this heaven gatekeeper leaders that you worship.both Qutbuddin and Muffy ... ..have not one single ounce of feeling or care to protect their control to make any public comment to lead the community and make the change. Shame on you leaders. it is time to eradicate this fgm, do it via grassroot revolt or just ignore the clergy.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Respected Br Asad. Thank you but the credit is to the children who suffer this brutality and dont know where to go because their own mothers who they expect to protect them are doing and have faith it should the right thing , this was achieved as there are dozens of Bohras like you and others like those morally supporting the change and those behind the scene putting time, effort and resources and countless law enforcement , govt officials and social workers who have worked behind the scenes. There is no one superman or super woman ..asad wrote:Br Oz,
Indeed its a Fateh Mubeen for all of us and credit goes to you for relentlessly pursuing this matter.
I am sorry for the three individuals but this had to happen for the Bohras specially in the western world to atleast stop this barbaric practice.
This is more about social justice, human and child rights and less about typucal reform.Time for pussy footing was over 5 years ago we could not go on like this endless debating and bloging while a child somewhere was being brutalised. There is limited disclosure until sentencing is over....there is more to it than what is being repeated from the media.
I am sad that the 3 families will be living their worst unimaginable nightmare, but again as the justice process said ,let's be clear the victims are the children in this case not dawat, not the parents , they are bearing the consequences of their actions, this was all avoidable, we have higjly educted famililes so compliant to everything the clergy says ,and the false power that Maula ni dua che, mojizo thase , ... . But we have to look beyond the case .will we stop this slam the brakes or more people need to be arested and charged before we say enough is enough.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -australia
Australia's first female genital mutilation trial: how a bright young girl convinced a jury
Three people have been convicted of FGM in a landmark trial in Australia. It was a complex case in which medical evidence was inconclusive, which meant the outcome turning on phone tapping – and also the testimony of two young girls
Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, who was convicted in a landmark female genital mutilation court case in Sydney this week.
Bridie Jabour
@bkjabour
Friday 13 November 2015 17.28 AEDT Last modified on Friday 13 November 2015 21.49 AEDT
Emma* is 11 and uses phrases like “the best that I am able” when asked by an adult if she will answer their questions. Strikingly intelligent, the western Sydney daughter of African and Indian migrants can recall in vivid detail everything that happened on a recent school excursion, right down to the detailing on pottery she saw.
So when she was called to give evidence against her mother in the supreme court, Emma was a reliable witness.
She testified in a landmark Australian case which centred around what happened to her in a room, about an hour away from her home, on an unspecified date which is likely to have been when she was seven years old.
Emma and her sister Caroline* were the – at times unwilling and overwhelmed – protagonists in the first female genital mutilation (FGM) trial in Australia, which has been playing out for the past nine weeks.
The sisters were born two years apart into the Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim community. Their path to the supreme court to give evidence while their mother sat in the dock began in 2012 when police officers arrived at their school asking to interview them.
app
Download the free Guardian app
Read the latest news from across the world on the Guardian app for iOS and Android and save articles to read across your devices and desktop.
Click here
The tapes of that interview, a textbook demonstration of police and social workers’ professionalism and patience, cover a range of subjects with each girl as interviewers slowly circle the real reasons they are there.
At one point Emma is asked about her family.
Interviewer: What do you like about your mother?
Emma: I like that she does some really nice things for me, like packing and making my lunch, and Dad, he helps me when I’m sick.
Interviewer: What else do you like about your mother?
Emma: She is kind.
Interviewer: Is there anything you don’t like about your mother?
Emma: No.
That day, Emma told the police officer and the social worker about “khatna”, a ceremony which girls from the Dawoodi Bohra community typically undergo when they are seven years old. A type of “coming of age” ceremony, to put it in clumsy western terms.
Advertisement
The trial centred around exactly what happened to Emma and her younger sister, who has a cognitive disability, during their khatna ceremonies.
That these girls had taken part in the ceremonies, that they had lay on a bed naked from the waist down during them, that other older women, such as their mother and paternal grandmother, were in the room reciting prayers, these were facts that were not disputed.
That the girls were touched on the genitals by an older woman, known in the trial as KM, was not disputed. What KM did to their genitals with what she described as “forceps” and Emma described as a silver tool “a bit like a scissor” was what the verdict hinged on.
KM said she simply “touched” the genitals of the girls in a “symbolic” part of the ceremony. The prosecution argued the girls had been cut and a medical examination by a doctor could not determine what happened either way, though type one or type four FGM was not ruled out.
I’m not used to talking about it because my mum tells me not to go around telling everyone that much
Emma's response to being asked about Khatna
KM was in the stand along with the girls’ mother for the duration of the case, tried alongside a senior clergy in the Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim community, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, who was accused of being an accessory after the fact by trying to help the women cover up the mutilation inflicted on the two young girls.
KM, 72, would come into court each day with the girls’ mother, Tanya*, 38, each dressed in the traditional rita, a long cotton dress and head covering. Leaning on a walking stick as well as other people to help her in and out of the courtroom, KM would sometimes have to leave abruptly, her blood sugar level crashing due to her diabetes.
The testimony
Emma gave her evidence in the first week. Peering into the courtroom via a video link, the small girl leaned into the camera, eager to please, likely eager for it to be over. Her long dark hair was pulled back from her face and she wore a simple T-shirt.
How much she knew about why exactly she was there or what the potential consequences could be for her family was unclear. Emma answered the first few questions in a voice that was clear, confident, considered. When the barrister cross-examining her, Stuart Bouveng, commented that she was embarrassed to be asked about her private parts, Emma agreed emphatically. Asked if she would still answer his questions, she responded: “the best that I am able”.
Nawal El Saadawi: ‘Do you feel you are liberated? I feel I am not’
Read more
Emma wanted to get every question an adult asked her correct, whether it was her timetable or exactly what she had to drink after her khatna ceremony (lemonade). She was bright and bubbly, and it almost shone out of every pore that this was a very loved little girl.
But answering questions about khatna in the video of her 2012 police interview, which was played to the court, Emma’s entire face drooped, along with her body, as her shoulders hunched down. “I don’t really want to talk about that,” she said.
When first asked if she could explain what khatna was, she said: “Not very much because I’m not used to talking about it because my mum tells me not to go around telling everyone that much.”
Tanya, who sat halfway between serene and expressionless throughout most of the trial, visibly winced during her daughter’s evidence. When the police interview started playing and Emma spoke of her love of arts and craft, Tanya bowed her head and put her face in her arm.
As Emma talked about what she liked about her mother, Tanya covered her face with her hands and KM put a comforting hand on her arm.
The courtroom
Advertisement
The jury was made up of six men and six women. Three looked as though they could be parents and only two looked like they did not have a Caucasian background. Most would not have passed for older than 30.
The way the supreme court is laid out at the old building on King Street, Sydney, has everyone more or less sitting on top of each other. For nine weeks, the jury sat facing the table of barristers. If one of the jury members in the first row had stood up and reached across the jury box they would have almost been able to touch the outstretched arm of one of the defence team.
The crown prosecutor was Nanette Williams. Two women prosecuted the case and two men defended it. Williams was often asked by the judge what the point of her questioning was or told that she was being repetitive. She was rarely flustered, but did get frustrated. She said some people were not telling the whole truth, or even part of the truth, and her voice would grow accusatory as she prodded them a bit harder.
She was up against Robert Sutherland SC and Bouveng. Sutherland was easily the most at ease in the courtroom, the most cool-headed of the three. He was representing Tanya and Vaziri. Bouveng was conversational in his statements to the jury.
While Williams had used her opening address to lay out the complexities of the case, Bouveng spelled it out to the jury as if they were high schoolers. All they needed to decide, he told them, was that the girls had indeed been cut.
Which seemed a simple enough task.
Emma told the court she “imagined she was a princess in a garden” as KM cut her clitoris with a steel instrument. She had her eyes closed during the mutilation, though she could describe what she saw KM holding in her hand beforehand. When asked by the judge, she obediently drew it for the court.
It looked like a pair of scissors but with just one handle.
Caroline’s evidence was less emphatic. She has learning difficulties but is able to function in a mainstream school with some assistance. When it came to the khatna ceremony, there was little she could properly recall.
She also gave evidence via video link. She spoke so softly you could hear the room straining to hear her. She swung nervously on the chair, from side to side. While Emma seemed almost adult, Caroline was all child.
When the oath was read out to her and she was asked if she agreed to it, Caroline just stared straight ahead. After some prodding she was told to say “I do”, which she obediently did. An objection was swift – the child obviously did not understand what she was saying, Bouveng argued.
The judge considered for a few moments and then decided she was freaked out by the whole setting – the formality and the wigs probably adding to how off-kilter she felt. Johnson took off his wig, trying to appear more normal. A court reporter muttered that she had never seen a judge do that before.
Anti-FGM activist Nimco Ali says Australian feminism stuck in the 1980s
Gay Alcorn
Gay Alcorn Read more
“Caroline?” he said. “Do you promise to tell the truth?”
Caroline responded with a finger in her mouth: “Yes.”
Her police interview from 2012 was played. In it she was asked what her mum’s name was. “Mummy,” she responded.
Much of Caroline’s evidence relied on the police interview, as in court most of her answers were that she did not know, was not sure, could not remember. Even the police interview evidence was mostly monosyllabic.
Interviewer: I heard someone came to your house for something special, can you tell me about it?
Advertisement
Caroline: No.
Interviewer: You don’t know or you don’t want to talk about?
Caroline: Don’t know.
After some discussion about khatna and what Caroline remembered of lying on a bed at her house while her sister watched a movie downstairs, she was asked what she felt during the ceremony.
Caroline: Hurting.
Interviewer: Where?
Caroline: In the bottom.
Interviewer: Do you still feel the hurting now?
Caroline: No.
During a break, court reporters huddled out on the steps talking about the two girls. Where traumatised victims had been expected, they had seen thriving young children. Thriving, loved, young children who could not think of a single thing when asked what they did not like about their mum or dad, but who had one thing they did not want to talk about.
“She’s gorgeous! Did you hear how clever she was?”
“She used words I would never use”
“They’re still living with their mum aren’t they?”
“She must be a good mum,” and then a pause. “Most of the time.”
The defence
Medical evidence presented to the courtroom was inconclusive. Dr Susan Marks, a paediatrician and head of the child protection unit at Westmead Children’s hospital, examined both the girls and said it was possible they could have been cut or even had part of their clitorises removed.
It is allowing the skin to sniff the steel
KM's explanation of khatna during the trial
The injury had healed with no obvious scarring to either. The crown prosecutor later explained to the court this was because KM had perfected a technique that left no scarring.
When KM took the stand, in the final stages of the trial, she was defiant. Every accusation, every suggestion that she had mutilated the two young girls was met with frustrated proclamations of innocence.
At the beginning of her evidence, which ran for days, she waffled, a sweet old lady telling the love story of her second marriage after the disastrous end of her first.
“I worked two jobs to support children in university and the only time I had time [and money] for myself was $3 on a Sunday when I went to to Park Royal for half the day and had a cup of coffee and listened to music,” she said.
KM was reminded by the judge to keep her answers to simple questions short.
In the witness box she was animated, eager to tell stories from long ago, from becoming a nurse in England (where she hated the weather) to her immigration to Australia in 1997. When KM sat in the dock, as the accused, she rarely showed expression.
What had she done to those two little girls? Symbolic khatna, was her answer.
“It is allowing the skin to sniff the steel,” she said. A simple light touch with steel forceps on the genitalia.
There were other witnesses in the room but none could – or would – say exactly what happened. Alexandra, the girls’ grandmother, was present at both of the girls’ ceremonies.
Advertisement
Entering court slowly, she made sure to remind the court of her age at every opportunity.
Speaking through an interpreter when gaps in her testimony were pointed out by Williams she would say “I am not able to remember anything after so many years” or “I can’t remember everything because I’m not able to remember all, my age is 80.”
Alexandra told the court she could not say exactly what had happened to the girls’ genitals in each ceremony as she had been too busy praying from the Qur’an.
But it was not just the girls’ word against what the adults said happened. It was their own word against themselves. Police had bugged phones, bugged cars and even bugged the waiting room where the parents met after their initial police interviews.
Excerpts played in court revealed the “Africa checking story”, a plan hatched to say part of the ceremony involved “checking” the girls to make sure they had not been mutilated in Africa. Those involved admitted to hatching the plan and that it was a lie in court, but maintained the girls had not been cut.
In a 2012 phone conversation between Tanya and the woman at whose house the first mutilation took place, they could be heard complaining about the FGM laws in New South Wales.
Tanya told the woman the girls had been checked by a gynaecologist – they spoke in Punjabi, and the court was provided with an English translation.
“I believe that it is not visible, they couldn’t even see it, however I think that matter is not going to finish here,” Tanya said.
Sierra Leone's secret FGM societies spread silent fear and sleepless nights
Read more
The older woman then said: “I was talking with [someone] about how funny it is, look at body piercing where it is.”
Tanya: “Ha ha, that no problem.”
Other woman: “No problem about it, ridiculous laws they have.”
After almost nine weeks of evidence, it took the jury just a day to decide they believed the girls. Their mother, KM and Vaziri were found guilty on every count. When the forewoman read out the verdict, Tanya and KM were stoic in the dock.
KM stared at the judge and then straight ahead. Tanya looked down the entire time and her face did not reveal how she felt.
The charges carry a maximum sentence of seven years in jail. They will learn their sentence on 5 February.
• Names have been changed.
Australia's first female genital mutilation trial: how a bright young girl convinced a jury
Three people have been convicted of FGM in a landmark trial in Australia. It was a complex case in which medical evidence was inconclusive, which meant the outcome turning on phone tapping – and also the testimony of two young girls
Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, who was convicted in a landmark female genital mutilation court case in Sydney this week.
Bridie Jabour
@bkjabour
Friday 13 November 2015 17.28 AEDT Last modified on Friday 13 November 2015 21.49 AEDT
Emma* is 11 and uses phrases like “the best that I am able” when asked by an adult if she will answer their questions. Strikingly intelligent, the western Sydney daughter of African and Indian migrants can recall in vivid detail everything that happened on a recent school excursion, right down to the detailing on pottery she saw.
So when she was called to give evidence against her mother in the supreme court, Emma was a reliable witness.
She testified in a landmark Australian case which centred around what happened to her in a room, about an hour away from her home, on an unspecified date which is likely to have been when she was seven years old.
Emma and her sister Caroline* were the – at times unwilling and overwhelmed – protagonists in the first female genital mutilation (FGM) trial in Australia, which has been playing out for the past nine weeks.
The sisters were born two years apart into the Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim community. Their path to the supreme court to give evidence while their mother sat in the dock began in 2012 when police officers arrived at their school asking to interview them.
app
Download the free Guardian app
Read the latest news from across the world on the Guardian app for iOS and Android and save articles to read across your devices and desktop.
Click here
The tapes of that interview, a textbook demonstration of police and social workers’ professionalism and patience, cover a range of subjects with each girl as interviewers slowly circle the real reasons they are there.
At one point Emma is asked about her family.
Interviewer: What do you like about your mother?
Emma: I like that she does some really nice things for me, like packing and making my lunch, and Dad, he helps me when I’m sick.
Interviewer: What else do you like about your mother?
Emma: She is kind.
Interviewer: Is there anything you don’t like about your mother?
Emma: No.
That day, Emma told the police officer and the social worker about “khatna”, a ceremony which girls from the Dawoodi Bohra community typically undergo when they are seven years old. A type of “coming of age” ceremony, to put it in clumsy western terms.
Advertisement
The trial centred around exactly what happened to Emma and her younger sister, who has a cognitive disability, during their khatna ceremonies.
That these girls had taken part in the ceremonies, that they had lay on a bed naked from the waist down during them, that other older women, such as their mother and paternal grandmother, were in the room reciting prayers, these were facts that were not disputed.
That the girls were touched on the genitals by an older woman, known in the trial as KM, was not disputed. What KM did to their genitals with what she described as “forceps” and Emma described as a silver tool “a bit like a scissor” was what the verdict hinged on.
KM said she simply “touched” the genitals of the girls in a “symbolic” part of the ceremony. The prosecution argued the girls had been cut and a medical examination by a doctor could not determine what happened either way, though type one or type four FGM was not ruled out.
I’m not used to talking about it because my mum tells me not to go around telling everyone that much
Emma's response to being asked about Khatna
KM was in the stand along with the girls’ mother for the duration of the case, tried alongside a senior clergy in the Dawoodi Bohra Shia Muslim community, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, who was accused of being an accessory after the fact by trying to help the women cover up the mutilation inflicted on the two young girls.
KM, 72, would come into court each day with the girls’ mother, Tanya*, 38, each dressed in the traditional rita, a long cotton dress and head covering. Leaning on a walking stick as well as other people to help her in and out of the courtroom, KM would sometimes have to leave abruptly, her blood sugar level crashing due to her diabetes.
The testimony
Emma gave her evidence in the first week. Peering into the courtroom via a video link, the small girl leaned into the camera, eager to please, likely eager for it to be over. Her long dark hair was pulled back from her face and she wore a simple T-shirt.
How much she knew about why exactly she was there or what the potential consequences could be for her family was unclear. Emma answered the first few questions in a voice that was clear, confident, considered. When the barrister cross-examining her, Stuart Bouveng, commented that she was embarrassed to be asked about her private parts, Emma agreed emphatically. Asked if she would still answer his questions, she responded: “the best that I am able”.
Nawal El Saadawi: ‘Do you feel you are liberated? I feel I am not’
Read more
Emma wanted to get every question an adult asked her correct, whether it was her timetable or exactly what she had to drink after her khatna ceremony (lemonade). She was bright and bubbly, and it almost shone out of every pore that this was a very loved little girl.
But answering questions about khatna in the video of her 2012 police interview, which was played to the court, Emma’s entire face drooped, along with her body, as her shoulders hunched down. “I don’t really want to talk about that,” she said.
When first asked if she could explain what khatna was, she said: “Not very much because I’m not used to talking about it because my mum tells me not to go around telling everyone that much.”
Tanya, who sat halfway between serene and expressionless throughout most of the trial, visibly winced during her daughter’s evidence. When the police interview started playing and Emma spoke of her love of arts and craft, Tanya bowed her head and put her face in her arm.
As Emma talked about what she liked about her mother, Tanya covered her face with her hands and KM put a comforting hand on her arm.
The courtroom
Advertisement
The jury was made up of six men and six women. Three looked as though they could be parents and only two looked like they did not have a Caucasian background. Most would not have passed for older than 30.
The way the supreme court is laid out at the old building on King Street, Sydney, has everyone more or less sitting on top of each other. For nine weeks, the jury sat facing the table of barristers. If one of the jury members in the first row had stood up and reached across the jury box they would have almost been able to touch the outstretched arm of one of the defence team.
The crown prosecutor was Nanette Williams. Two women prosecuted the case and two men defended it. Williams was often asked by the judge what the point of her questioning was or told that she was being repetitive. She was rarely flustered, but did get frustrated. She said some people were not telling the whole truth, or even part of the truth, and her voice would grow accusatory as she prodded them a bit harder.
She was up against Robert Sutherland SC and Bouveng. Sutherland was easily the most at ease in the courtroom, the most cool-headed of the three. He was representing Tanya and Vaziri. Bouveng was conversational in his statements to the jury.
While Williams had used her opening address to lay out the complexities of the case, Bouveng spelled it out to the jury as if they were high schoolers. All they needed to decide, he told them, was that the girls had indeed been cut.
Which seemed a simple enough task.
Emma told the court she “imagined she was a princess in a garden” as KM cut her clitoris with a steel instrument. She had her eyes closed during the mutilation, though she could describe what she saw KM holding in her hand beforehand. When asked by the judge, she obediently drew it for the court.
It looked like a pair of scissors but with just one handle.
Caroline’s evidence was less emphatic. She has learning difficulties but is able to function in a mainstream school with some assistance. When it came to the khatna ceremony, there was little she could properly recall.
She also gave evidence via video link. She spoke so softly you could hear the room straining to hear her. She swung nervously on the chair, from side to side. While Emma seemed almost adult, Caroline was all child.
When the oath was read out to her and she was asked if she agreed to it, Caroline just stared straight ahead. After some prodding she was told to say “I do”, which she obediently did. An objection was swift – the child obviously did not understand what she was saying, Bouveng argued.
The judge considered for a few moments and then decided she was freaked out by the whole setting – the formality and the wigs probably adding to how off-kilter she felt. Johnson took off his wig, trying to appear more normal. A court reporter muttered that she had never seen a judge do that before.
Anti-FGM activist Nimco Ali says Australian feminism stuck in the 1980s
Gay Alcorn
Gay Alcorn Read more
“Caroline?” he said. “Do you promise to tell the truth?”
Caroline responded with a finger in her mouth: “Yes.”
Her police interview from 2012 was played. In it she was asked what her mum’s name was. “Mummy,” she responded.
Much of Caroline’s evidence relied on the police interview, as in court most of her answers were that she did not know, was not sure, could not remember. Even the police interview evidence was mostly monosyllabic.
Interviewer: I heard someone came to your house for something special, can you tell me about it?
Advertisement
Caroline: No.
Interviewer: You don’t know or you don’t want to talk about?
Caroline: Don’t know.
After some discussion about khatna and what Caroline remembered of lying on a bed at her house while her sister watched a movie downstairs, she was asked what she felt during the ceremony.
Caroline: Hurting.
Interviewer: Where?
Caroline: In the bottom.
Interviewer: Do you still feel the hurting now?
Caroline: No.
During a break, court reporters huddled out on the steps talking about the two girls. Where traumatised victims had been expected, they had seen thriving young children. Thriving, loved, young children who could not think of a single thing when asked what they did not like about their mum or dad, but who had one thing they did not want to talk about.
“She’s gorgeous! Did you hear how clever she was?”
“She used words I would never use”
“They’re still living with their mum aren’t they?”
“She must be a good mum,” and then a pause. “Most of the time.”
The defence
Medical evidence presented to the courtroom was inconclusive. Dr Susan Marks, a paediatrician and head of the child protection unit at Westmead Children’s hospital, examined both the girls and said it was possible they could have been cut or even had part of their clitorises removed.
It is allowing the skin to sniff the steel
KM's explanation of khatna during the trial
The injury had healed with no obvious scarring to either. The crown prosecutor later explained to the court this was because KM had perfected a technique that left no scarring.
When KM took the stand, in the final stages of the trial, she was defiant. Every accusation, every suggestion that she had mutilated the two young girls was met with frustrated proclamations of innocence.
At the beginning of her evidence, which ran for days, she waffled, a sweet old lady telling the love story of her second marriage after the disastrous end of her first.
“I worked two jobs to support children in university and the only time I had time [and money] for myself was $3 on a Sunday when I went to to Park Royal for half the day and had a cup of coffee and listened to music,” she said.
KM was reminded by the judge to keep her answers to simple questions short.
In the witness box she was animated, eager to tell stories from long ago, from becoming a nurse in England (where she hated the weather) to her immigration to Australia in 1997. When KM sat in the dock, as the accused, she rarely showed expression.
What had she done to those two little girls? Symbolic khatna, was her answer.
“It is allowing the skin to sniff the steel,” she said. A simple light touch with steel forceps on the genitalia.
There were other witnesses in the room but none could – or would – say exactly what happened. Alexandra, the girls’ grandmother, was present at both of the girls’ ceremonies.
Advertisement
Entering court slowly, she made sure to remind the court of her age at every opportunity.
Speaking through an interpreter when gaps in her testimony were pointed out by Williams she would say “I am not able to remember anything after so many years” or “I can’t remember everything because I’m not able to remember all, my age is 80.”
Alexandra told the court she could not say exactly what had happened to the girls’ genitals in each ceremony as she had been too busy praying from the Qur’an.
But it was not just the girls’ word against what the adults said happened. It was their own word against themselves. Police had bugged phones, bugged cars and even bugged the waiting room where the parents met after their initial police interviews.
Excerpts played in court revealed the “Africa checking story”, a plan hatched to say part of the ceremony involved “checking” the girls to make sure they had not been mutilated in Africa. Those involved admitted to hatching the plan and that it was a lie in court, but maintained the girls had not been cut.
In a 2012 phone conversation between Tanya and the woman at whose house the first mutilation took place, they could be heard complaining about the FGM laws in New South Wales.
Tanya told the woman the girls had been checked by a gynaecologist – they spoke in Punjabi, and the court was provided with an English translation.
“I believe that it is not visible, they couldn’t even see it, however I think that matter is not going to finish here,” Tanya said.
Sierra Leone's secret FGM societies spread silent fear and sleepless nights
Read more
The older woman then said: “I was talking with [someone] about how funny it is, look at body piercing where it is.”
Tanya: “Ha ha, that no problem.”
Other woman: “No problem about it, ridiculous laws they have.”
After almost nine weeks of evidence, it took the jury just a day to decide they believed the girls. Their mother, KM and Vaziri were found guilty on every count. When the forewoman read out the verdict, Tanya and KM were stoic in the dock.
KM stared at the judge and then straight ahead. Tanya looked down the entire time and her face did not reveal how she felt.
The charges carry a maximum sentence of seven years in jail. They will learn their sentence on 5 February.
• Names have been changed.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Reports and chatter indicate the convicted are considering appealing the Supreme Court judgement by going to the Court of Criminal Appeal, this appeal is planned to commenc after sentencing.
Dawaat will fight the conviction at all costs anf throw everything at it regardless of community standing in public. Costs will be funded and will take a long time.
Dawaat will fight the conviction at all costs anf throw everything at it regardless of community standing in public. Costs will be funded and will take a long time.
The Court of Criminal Appeal is the State's highest court for criminal matters. A person who has been convicted or who pleaded guilty and been sentenced by a Supreme Court or District Court judge, may appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeal. Appeals may also be brought from decisions of the Land and Environment Court in its criminal jurisdiction.
The judges hearing any particular case are selected from the Chief Justice, the President of the Court of Appeal, the judges of appeal, the Chief Judge and other nominated judges of the Common Law Division.
Appeals are generally heard by three judges, although five judges may sit when significant legal issues need to be considered. If the judges do not agree, the majority view prevails.
When sentence appeals do not involve a dispute on any issue of legal principle, only two judges need to sit.
There are a number of grounds for appeal, including a challenge to a conviction involving a question of law. The Court of Criminal Appeal may also grant leave to appeal in matters involving questions of fact or mixed questions of fact and law. It may also grant leave to appeal in cases where the severity or adequacy of the sentence is challenged.
To appeal to the High Court from the Court of Criminal Appeal, an applicant must first obtain special permission from the High Court.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
A bit out of topic:
Calling all Sydney, Australia Markaz ......
Mubina Jaamdar and Siraj Jaamdar (ex-Bohra) are fighting against the fgm case as individualists in Sydney. However after knowing about this site, are keen to join hands. Mubina has recently registered with this forum and is waiting admin's approval.
Calling all Sydney, Australia Markaz ......
Mubina Jaamdar and Siraj Jaamdar (ex-Bohra) are fighting against the fgm case as individualists in Sydney. However after knowing about this site, are keen to join hands. Mubina has recently registered with this forum and is waiting admin's approval.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Ateka wrote:A bit out of topic:
Calling all Sydney, Australia Markaz ......
Mubina Jaamdar and Siraj Jaamdar (ex-Bohra) are fighting against the fgm case as individualists in Sydney. However after knowing about this site, are keen to join hands. Mubina has recently registered with this forum and is waiting admin's approval.
Ateka what did you actually mean the 2 individuals waiting for the blog login are" fighting against the fgm case"...the case is decided completed the accused were found guilty and they now have a criminal record. ..what is pending is how much jail sentence they will get. .of course they can apeal to a higher court
are your mates ...that means are they really against the the Police, I and few witnesses have managed to achieve success , i really ask them to think very very carefully , taking on the Australian government, with millions in resources, talent, when 22 million public is against FGM plus in these difficult times of ISIS matters including not having Muslim support is a path a lot of damage for them , to take us on who are against fgm is not a wise choice.
I was hoping you meant they are gearing up to fight against FGM and stop it. if that is what you really meant PM me and I will connect you with the right authorities or directly contact the state Police sex crimes command through the police hotline or DOCS and state your objective and they will advise further.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... e-practice
A New South Wales supreme court judge says he has not seen any evidence that three people convicted of female genital mutilation charges will work to stamp out the practice in their community.
On Friday Justice Peter Johnson presided over a sentencing hearing for the three co-offenders, all of whom are connected to the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community.
The trio includes two women – the mother of the two girls who underwent FGM and a retired nurse – who were accused of arranging for the two young sisters’ clitorises to be cut in separate incidents in Sydney when the girls were aged about seven.
A high-ranking member of the religious community, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, was found guilty by a jury of acting as an accessory after the fact.
The women’s lawyers have previously argued the procedure was symbolic, and that the retired nurse only touched the girls’ skin with a set of forceps.
Johnson said that act alone would be considered criminal assault.
But although the court heard the defendants were remorseful, Johnson did not think the evidence before him showed the three would actively oppose the future practice of female genital mutilation by members of the local Dawoodi Bohra community, symbolic or otherwise.
“I’m not sure that I have seen any of these accused saying they reject all practices of that sort,” he said.
Johnson has also been asked to consider whether an order banning journalists from identifying the retired nurse should remain in place.
The older woman’s lawyer has argued the ban is necessary to protect her safety, adding that the frail woman had been jostled by members of the media and received threatening phone calls.
But the crown prosecutor, Nanette Williams, said the freedom to identify an offender was a central feature of the principle of open justice.
“There are laws against stalking and harassing, and those laws can be invoked to prevent [the woman] from being subjected to any further harassment or calls, should that be the case,” Williams said.
The hearing continues.
A New South Wales supreme court judge says he has not seen any evidence that three people convicted of female genital mutilation charges will work to stamp out the practice in their community.
On Friday Justice Peter Johnson presided over a sentencing hearing for the three co-offenders, all of whom are connected to the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community.
The trio includes two women – the mother of the two girls who underwent FGM and a retired nurse – who were accused of arranging for the two young sisters’ clitorises to be cut in separate incidents in Sydney when the girls were aged about seven.
A high-ranking member of the religious community, Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, was found guilty by a jury of acting as an accessory after the fact.
The women’s lawyers have previously argued the procedure was symbolic, and that the retired nurse only touched the girls’ skin with a set of forceps.
Johnson said that act alone would be considered criminal assault.
But although the court heard the defendants were remorseful, Johnson did not think the evidence before him showed the three would actively oppose the future practice of female genital mutilation by members of the local Dawoodi Bohra community, symbolic or otherwise.
“I’m not sure that I have seen any of these accused saying they reject all practices of that sort,” he said.
Johnson has also been asked to consider whether an order banning journalists from identifying the retired nurse should remain in place.
The older woman’s lawyer has argued the ban is necessary to protect her safety, adding that the frail woman had been jostled by members of the media and received threatening phone calls.
But the crown prosecutor, Nanette Williams, said the freedom to identify an offender was a central feature of the principle of open justice.
“There are laws against stalking and harassing, and those laws can be invoked to prevent [the woman] from being subjected to any further harassment or calls, should that be the case,” Williams said.
The hearing continues.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Two women convicted over a "hush-hush" genital mutilation procedure on two girls have shown no remorse and only offered "qualified, ambiguous and self-serving" apologies, a NSW court has heard.
Former midwife Kubra Magennis, 72, and the mother of the victims, who cannot be named, were convicted in November of mutilating the two sisters in separate procedures.
The procedure, known as "khatna", involves nicking or cutting a girl's clitoris in the presence of several female elders, and is considered a rite of passage by some members of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community.
The case is believed to be the nation's first successful prosecution over female genital mutilation.
A third offender, senior community leader Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, was found guilty of acting as an accessory after the fact by directing community members to lie to police about the practice.
Addressing a sentencing hearing in the NSW Supreme Court on Friday, crown prosecutor Nanette Williams said the girls were "effectively voiceless" in the face of their mother and Magennis.
Ms Williams said full-time imprisonment was the only appropriate punishment and would act as a deterrent to others in the community.
The charges carry a maximum penalty of seven years' jail.
She said female genital mutilation was "repugnant to a civilised community".
None of the offenders had shown any remorse, she said, and they had only given "qualified, ambiguous and self-serving" apologies.
"These women should be there protecting the children," Ms Williams said.
"On the contrary, they took advantage of their position of trust and power.
"There is no evidence whatsoever that the offenders have acknowledged that there was some injury as a result of their actions."
Ms Williams told the court the children had experienced pain as a result of the "nick or cut" they endured, adding that the procedure was designed to inhibit sexual pleasure.
"Available evidence strongly suggests this was never any form of benign procedure," she told the court.
"It has to do with ... a sexual repression of women to make them more marriageable."
The court also heard Vaziri had lied to police, telling officers that he had never heard of female genital mutilation, and did not know if it was performed in his community.
Stuart Bouveng, representing Magennis, acknowledged there was no evidence of the women's contrition, but said the long-term impacts of the procedure were minimal.
He also said the crown case did not give any assistance to the court on the objective seriousness of such an offence.
The case is expected to return to court later this month.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/0 ... Kh3vKJ6.99
Former midwife Kubra Magennis, 72, and the mother of the victims, who cannot be named, were convicted in November of mutilating the two sisters in separate procedures.
The procedure, known as "khatna", involves nicking or cutting a girl's clitoris in the presence of several female elders, and is considered a rite of passage by some members of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community.
The case is believed to be the nation's first successful prosecution over female genital mutilation.
A third offender, senior community leader Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, was found guilty of acting as an accessory after the fact by directing community members to lie to police about the practice.
Addressing a sentencing hearing in the NSW Supreme Court on Friday, crown prosecutor Nanette Williams said the girls were "effectively voiceless" in the face of their mother and Magennis.
Ms Williams said full-time imprisonment was the only appropriate punishment and would act as a deterrent to others in the community.
The charges carry a maximum penalty of seven years' jail.
She said female genital mutilation was "repugnant to a civilised community".
None of the offenders had shown any remorse, she said, and they had only given "qualified, ambiguous and self-serving" apologies.
"These women should be there protecting the children," Ms Williams said.
"On the contrary, they took advantage of their position of trust and power.
"There is no evidence whatsoever that the offenders have acknowledged that there was some injury as a result of their actions."
Ms Williams told the court the children had experienced pain as a result of the "nick or cut" they endured, adding that the procedure was designed to inhibit sexual pleasure.
"Available evidence strongly suggests this was never any form of benign procedure," she told the court.
"It has to do with ... a sexual repression of women to make them more marriageable."
The court also heard Vaziri had lied to police, telling officers that he had never heard of female genital mutilation, and did not know if it was performed in his community.
Stuart Bouveng, representing Magennis, acknowledged there was no evidence of the women's contrition, but said the long-term impacts of the procedure were minimal.
He also said the crown case did not give any assistance to the court on the objective seriousness of such an offence.
The case is expected to return to court later this month.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/0 ... Kh3vKJ6.99
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Media machine running again daily telegraph,
Auburn genital mutilation: Guilty women, sheik fail to show remorse or speak out says judge
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 1852dfbab9
Auburn genital mutilation: Guilty women, sheik fail to show remorse or speak out says judge
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 1852dfbab9
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Received letter from a community member
Note no mention of Sayedna sahebs raza or wishes. Is this more to convince or fool the courts.
Obviously it implies it is only exempted in Australia.
Inside information there was high powered lawyers meeting at a hotel in Sydney with committee members to avoid police eavesdrop.
Well now it is to see if they are serious or in sabaqs and madrasa they will by signal or ishara promote it.
Note no mention of Sayedna sahebs raza or wishes. Is this more to convince or fool the courts.
Obviously it implies it is only exempted in Australia.
Inside information there was high powered lawyers meeting at a hotel in Sydney with committee members to avoid police eavesdrop.
Well now it is to see if they are serious or in sabaqs and madrasa they will by signal or ishara promote it.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Ozdundee wrote:
two things to be noted.
1) chairman of the Jamat who is always the local aamil, his signature is missing.
2) one of the trustee family name is D'souza which is a christian surname.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
How interesting. .not one trustee is a women, as expected men decide what ritual women undergo
one of the signature is the husband of the accused or let's say guilty.
Where are the prominent women
The justice system will see through how hollow this letter is and it is a mere get out of jail attempt.
one of the signature is the husband of the accused or let's say guilty.
Where are the prominent women
The justice system will see through how hollow this letter is and it is a mere get out of jail attempt.
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
This letter seems a way for the board members of that Jamaat to protect themselves and a disclaimer so that they become immune to authorities if ever they come after them.
It is still a pretty good significant first step in discouraging khatna.
It is still a pretty good significant first step in discouraging khatna.
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Moiz_Dhaanu
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
What a spineless joke this DMBS circus has become.Ozdundee wrote:
This has become an institution of convenience(i have purposely not used word "Dawat" , since i do not believe DMBS is leading the true dawat)..
Let’s put it into perspective as to how DMBS's regime has gone from bad to worse.
We know that all countries in which Bohras reside have a strict Rule against hawaala "money laundering out of the country via illegal channels"..
But in this matter, its a known fact that jamaats across the world(including shehzaadas) transfer money(najwa/wajebaat) to india via hawaala , and that time they do not recollect nor follow what Rasulullah(s.w) said about love for country and about obeying its laws..what hypocrites are the aamils of DMBS who, when the time comes to stand up for the community , they start melting.
Infact i think its worthwhile to say that Mufaddali Aamils are a bunch of selfish opportunists to the core.
I wonde why this time ShzQaid Chor did not bring a "Mental Certificate" for aamil and his accomplices.
DMBS= Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
Circus goes on email received to Sydney jamaat members.
This is to distance dawaat and Mufadal from the guilty . Amil resigns , if jailed will go in as Indian foreigner and not employee of Dawaat. The Amil who resigned cannot leave the country , sentencing is ongoing.
Damage control in full swing. The Indian saheb dawaat aka legal advisor are pulling the strings.
The signatories and trustees where were you when the case started 3 years ago.
Watch this space , the last move is yet to come , kothar are stupid to think the world is stupid like their followers and fall for these stunts.
Mufadal must have got a jolt from the media bombardments.
This is to distance dawaat and Mufadal from the guilty . Amil resigns , if jailed will go in as Indian foreigner and not employee of Dawaat. The Amil who resigned cannot leave the country , sentencing is ongoing.
Damage control in full swing. The Indian saheb dawaat aka legal advisor are pulling the strings.
The signatories and trustees where were you when the case started 3 years ago.
Watch this space , the last move is yet to come , kothar are stupid to think the world is stupid like their followers and fall for these stunts.
Mufadal must have got a jolt from the media bombardments.
We shall have maghreeb Isha Namaz today i.e. THURSDAY 11TH FEB2016 at 7-53pm followed by WADA MAJLIS for our Amilsaheb Janab Shabbirbhai Saheb Vaziri. . Anjuman E Burhani na saghla Mumineen, Mumenaat and pyara farzando are requested to attend WADA MAJLIS . Wada Majlis baad aap saghla ne Niyaz na jaman nu ezzan che.- Mehmaan sathe
Re: Australia Supreme Court criminal trial for Bohra FGM practice
One of them Skh Feroz isn't he the partner of that nurse Meganiis. He signed this partition tooOzdundee wrote:
What a traitor....I NORMALLY DON'T DO THIS BUT THE CREDIT OF THIS GOES TO THIS WEBSITE.
Reformist Mumineen have done a great job by exposing this on world wide forum. Now bring the Dynasty to earth. One thing good happened thanks to SKQ the family is falling apart.