SKQ dialogue with California reform group

[think]

forget the past and expecting them to apologize for their mistakes.
Let the new generation learn from their mistakes. Never to trust a white clothed so called masoom zada, zadi, mulla sheikh, bhaisaheb or the big mulla in any shape or form. Guard your beliefs in Allah yourself. do not pay these suckers aq penny. Use it yourself to help the needy ehere you deem fit and makes you happy for doing gods work. do not rely on these kothar thieves. They will use it themselves on them selves.

[Dua for Momeen]

these guys will not apologies even if they are wrong...mojiza factory is not just in mufaddali camp, but taheri camp is also running it.


listen his waez from 20 mins on.

https://youtu.be/QtkdvchWvYc?t=1262


Talking about Dream...

mohta bhai kahe che, sekdo ne kudus naa kaathe pohchawi chuko chu ane waha thi khabar bhi aawi gayi....no wonder his hedge fund is making heavy profits.

Dua for Momeen.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Respected Sadiq and Babdeen

Can you please share the specific points put forward during the dialogue and responses. In principle of transparency and sincerity.

Any dialogue is good , walking away forever is unproductive. Strength and leadership is in creating change and unity and let's be accurate the Prophets made compromises , reforms eg from Adam AS to Muhammad SAW and hence we have concept of jurisprudence so the argument no change is incorrect.

At stake is not egos, identity , material but the future of the community. Modern society overall has flourished on freedom, accountability and equality.

During a year long conversations with SKQ camp, the group provided input on several topics. The initial response was SKQ dawat will prepare and put forward a constitution detailing the operation of dawat. It never arrived. However, bits and pieces were included in Sijill.
The issues which received good attention by SKQ camp were rights for women, education for all children, eliminating mandatory dues, eliminating barat, focus on Quran as key source and developing relations with other muslims sects.
Issues they stalled on were: set up proper accounting of local Jamaats with agreed up percentage to central operation, powers of Aamils vs. elected local committees, acknowledging past abuses under STS, SMB and creating advisory and elders committees to assist Dai on non-religious matters.
Two major proclamations were last straws: jannat through Dais only and all dais are Infallible and can not be criticized. Basically, STS and SMB were Dais and could not make mistakes. so, SKQ has nothing to ocrrect.
We have not walked away from them. They have been side tracked with SKQ illness, court case, SKQ death and Fakhruddin taking over. Taher Fakhruddin has returned to Bakersfield few days ago and plan is to reengage if he shows interest. My current thinking is, he has too much on his plate and needs time.

Given what you say above (highlighted by me), and given their statement on FMG, I hope that you give him some time now, be supportive, and re-engage with them. As for the theological line (Dias are infallible, etc.), could it be that they have to take that position for now, and that they will/may ease up later on?

Also, as for the court case, I do agree that they should give it their best shot - I hope they win. If not anything else, just so that the truth comes out and it is supported by a relatively neutral party. And control of dargahs and masjid can/will increase their numbers, so it is only reasonable that they try that.

Look, they appear to be (and are taking concrete action) towards a more forward looking community - it is what all of us want, so I hope that we can all support them in our own way.

[Maqbool]

Then we heard that they were negotiating an exit if the amount was right.

This is a serious issue. If it is true it is a cheating to the followers of both sides. Badbdeen should clarify, it is a here say or he has specific information and possible he should share it here.

The group members are engineers and doctors, mostly from Silicon Valley with deep pockets

What does this mean. I have seen many doc.and eng. who are doing in front of SMS which normals will not do.

I still believe that one should not insist apology from present generation; mistake has been done from their parents. Even our forefather has supported the un-Islamic things imposed on them. They are also should be blamed equally.

Dear Babdeen it is a good step you have taken and please proceed, do not involve messy religious things which breaks the talks. What we want is good governance and proper accountable setup. Remember the opportunity we have received is God gift and if anyway this STF opposition is written-off it will be worst for the community. Remember we are not alone. Our extended families are involved.

If we think why we need a Daee in first place? The reason is only we wants to keep our family happy. We want to remain in the society. It is rooted in our mind during years. We will be happy if Daee is eliminated totally, but we have to keep our family in mind who thinks other way.

[Ozdundee]

Let is be fair we have not seen STS and I doubt STF has either

We cannot hold STF responsible for the mistakes and crimes commited by STS and SMB too.

SKQ has passed away so STF need to be given a chance. His day zero started in April 2016.

Reformists need to get pragmatic STF so far has stated what we wanted. Asking them to drop everything will sound like we are just out to destroy everything. Good negotiations mean we have to compromise and give up and let the other party achieve some wins too.

I agree with you that give STF time to consolidate power , his priority as ours is to find a way to remove SMS. In that we need to form alliance with STF .

I am surprised abdes have not shown any significant shifting . SMS reputation is dropping vry quickly , he has lost respect within many abdes minds. I am surprised that in FGM dawaat showed complete incompetence and disorganized defence. This also proves that against a formidable opposition with assets like the Australian Police and FBI kothar was seen do be shadow boxing .At present sms contingent is completely ruder less . STF is moving quick.y to position himself . The gear is Bohras have been too long under control, people are confused.

SMS is wounded big time after FGM , his social media strategy is in tatters, photos are not been sent around thanks to GM exposing. His latest trip is hush hush.. His reputation is in tatters in places as Bohra remote as indonesia. It is unlikely he can rise over this.

I have thought of anyone else to replace Sms , however there is none.

[Maqbool]

People are not coming out from SMS camp is only because every muwaid, roja, markaz etc are controlled by him and once some where a small puncture happend it will be hard to stop the flow.

[Ozdundee]

People are not coming out from SMS camp is only because every muwaid, roja, markaz etc are controlled by him and once some where a small puncture happend it will be hard to stop the flow.

Such timid people can be left behind, there numbers are not worth the burden and will drag everyone behind.

Like the Prophet SAW who took quality companions, we can do the same.Bohras after 50 years of reformism have their heads buried are not valuabe.

Markaz is material if the souls are attached to concrete and muwaid, like the golden cow worshippers let them enjoy their worldly desires.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Then we heard that they were negotiating an exit if the amount was right.

This is a serious issue. If it is true it is a cheating to the followers of both sides. Badbdeen should clarify, it is a here say or he has specific information and possible he should share it here.


........... other stuff deleted ....

I agree with bhai Maqbool. Bhai babdeen, please clarify the above quoted statement.