Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

[realbohras]

Updated! Take a look. https://realbohras.com/

This is your thing of gold? https://realbohras.com/2024/05/18/ivi-s ... howi-joye/

Or is it this one? https://realbohras.com/2024/05/17/bairo ... nat-parse/

Feel free to peruse, lot more where that came from.

You promised 1 video every day


3 days passed no uploads?

[james]

Who says i didnt believe him? i was convinced from that moment on, that Syedna Qutbuddin spoke the truth.

Are you now claiming that on the night of wafaat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA on January 16-17th 2014, you were convinced that Khuzaima was speaking the truth in that YouTube video?

BULLSHIT. Show me where!

(Accepting nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS Proof)

You accept Nass has taken place on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS YES I DO

PLEASE DO SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE STOPPED BELIEVING. I MAINTAIN THAT HE HAS BEEN CHOSEN, AMBIGUOUS AS IT MAY BE

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/vie ... 30#p155937

BULLSHIT. Show me where!

(Khuzaima's proof is almost non-existent)

i do not believe that nuss is made on ex-Mazun Maula either because while on one hand the proof is extremely murky, on the other hand the proof is almost non-existent

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/vie ... 30#p156021

And your muffy maula has led the entire community to the level of dogs, licking spoons, bowing to hindu priests, muffy hugging nanga sadhu, hugging the butcher of muslims etc

And then the mask fell off.... Normally I would give a fitting reply to your disgusting insults but I guess showing you to be a liar is more than enough for now. Though I do reserve the right to come back to this later on if time permits.

It feels like incredible/multi-id troll has written the above.

[Sheikh Ali sadiq]

Updated! Take a look. https://realbohras.com/

You promised 1 video every day


3 days passed no uploads?

great videos, I suggest to put an option where we can download the video as well to share on whatsapp and on our own media handle.

[Sheikh Ali sadiq]

He doesnt understand Arabic nor English....WTF

how can a leader of community be this stupid, only shaking head like a 3 year old not even replying with a logic or an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Yb8Wu ... 360Updates

[Fatema Yamani]

Bohra morons don't even know how to act in kabrestan. Making reels

Jewa MS leader ewa followers.

[Fatema Yamani]

Property adhaar coming in India

Many fat belly haraam khor bhai sahabs who gathered lots of property will be seized by government.

I hope they really bring this.

[zinger]

Who says i didnt believe him? i was convinced from that moment on, that Syedna Qutbuddin spoke the truth.

Are you now claiming that on the night of wafaat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA on January 16-17th 2014, you were convinced that Khuzaima was speaking the truth in that YouTube video?

BULLSHIT. Show me where!

(Accepting nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS Proof)

You accept Nass has taken place on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS YES I DO

PLEASE DO SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE STOPPED BELIEVING. I MAINTAIN THAT HE HAS BEEN CHOSEN, AMBIGUOUS AS IT MAY BE

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/vie ... 30#p155937

BULLSHIT. Show me where!

(Khuzaima's proof is almost non-existent)

i do not believe that nuss is made on ex-Mazun Maula either because while on one hand the proof is extremely murky, on the other hand the proof is almost non-existent

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/vie ... 30#p156021

And your muffy maula has led the entire community to the level of dogs, licking spoons, bowing to hindu priests, muffy hugging nanga sadhu, hugging the butcher of muslims etc

And then the mask fell off.... Normally I would give a fitting reply to your disgusting insults but I guess showing you to be a liar is more than enough for now. Though I do reserve the right to come back to this later on if time permits.

It feels like incredible/multi-id troll has written the above.

Boy, you sure do have a lot of time on your hand to actually go through my old messages!

i have always maintained that while Muffadal Maula MAY have been chosen, he was definitely not the right choice.

i think if you took care to read my responses, it is quite evident.

by all means, do take the effort to give a fitting reply to my words, they may seem like disgusting insults to you, but it is the bare naked truth. please dont hold back, let the kid gloves come off. see if i even give 2 hoots about it.

and assuming me to the be resident virus is a laugh riot. quite a few people know my real identity, just as i know theirs.
feel free to believe what you like.

[james]

Boy, you sure do have a lot of time on your hand to actually go through my old messages!

The advanced search feature works wonders. Not sure why you are complaining when it was you who asked for it in the first place. Be careful to not call me a liar again.

i have always maintained that while Muffadal Maula MAY have been chosen, he was definitely not the right choice.

So now you profess to know more than Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. But then again, whatever happened to being convinced seeing the Quran in Khuzaima's hand on the night of 16-17th January 2014? If Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA chose Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS according to you ..then surely Khuzaima was lying whilst holding the Quran?

by all means, do take the effort to give a fitting reply to my words, they may seem like disgusting insults to you, but it is the bare naked truth. please dont hold back, let the kid gloves come off. see if i even give 2 hoots about it.

and assuming me to the be resident virus is a laugh riot. quite a few people know my real identity, just as i know theirs.
feel free to believe what you like.

There is a saying "You become what you hate"

Your posts are on par with incredible/multi-id troll lately.

As for your real identity, let's hope you don't request the Admin for account deletion again.

[zinger]

Boy, you sure do have a lot of time on your hand to actually go through my old messages!

The advanced search feature works wonders. Not sure why you are complaining when it was you who asked for it in the first place. Be careful to not call me a liar again.

i have always maintained that while Muffadal Maula MAY have been chosen, he was definitely not the right choice.

So now you profess to know more than Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. But then again, whatever happened to being convinced seeing the Quran in Khuzaima's hand on the night of 16-17th January 2014? If Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA chose Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS according to you ..then surely Khuzaima was lying whilst holding the Quran?

by all means, do take the effort to give a fitting reply to my words, they may seem like disgusting insults to you, but it is the bare naked truth. please dont hold back, let the kid gloves come off. see if i even give 2 hoots about it.

and assuming me to the be resident virus is a laugh riot. quite a few people know my real identity, just as i know theirs.
feel free to believe what you like.

There is a saying "You become what you hate"

Your posts are on par with incredible/multi-id troll lately.

As for your real identity, let's hope you don't request the Admin for account deletion again.

bhai james, you should quit smoking what you are. its making you delusional.

[james]

bhai james, you should quit smoking what you are. its making you delusional.

When your back is against the wall, this is the only insult you can think to have the last word as a troll.

Geee..... what have you been smoking up bhai ??? that is some seriously bad stuff... its making you hallucinate

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/vie ... 8&#p129158

Really??? My friend, i would love to have a bit of what you're smoking/drinking/shooting in your veins.. seems to be some really good stuff

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/vie ... 93#p141493

BTW, i forgot to add one more thing to feel good.. apparently, good pot makes you feel good too, which, going by your rambles, seems to be exactly what you are smoking

so, peace my friend. enjoy your pot, continue to feel good.

good day

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/vie ... 05#p183405


When in a hole, stop digging.

[Sceptical]

In examining the decisions of the court, several points are apparent:

Importance of Material Evidence:
The court placed great importance on material evidence, particularly videos and audio recordings, which are tangible evidence and difficult to refute. Theological evidence, while significant in the religious context, was deemed less convincing in the absence of solid physical evidence.

Some flexibility of Nass Designations:
Historical precedents show a certain flexibility in nass designations, allowing the Dai to modify their choice according to circumstances. This weakens the argument of absolute irrevocability put forward by STF. The document cites several cases of change of Nass (death of the successor before the existing Dai)

Mental Capacity and Medical Background:
Although the 52nd Dai's state of health was a point of contention, the medical evidence presented by the defendant convinced the court of the Dai's sufficient mental capacity at the time of the designations.

Popularity
Although it's not explicitly mentioned anywhere, the popularity of SMS certainly played a part. On the other hand, the fact that SKQ/STF kept quiet before SMB's death might suggest opportunism (there is a whole section in the judgment on SKQ's actions after the events of 2011)

Therefore, the court's decision appears justified. The judgment recognizes the complexity of religious traditions, while relying on tangible evidence to reach a decision. In this context, it appears that the evidence in favor of SMS is more robust and convincing, justifying the court's decision to confirm his designation as legitimate successor.

STF could challenge the court's assessment of the 52nd Dai's mental capacity, claiming that the court failed to take sufficient account of medical evidence showing that the Dai was not mentally fit to confer the nass in 2011.

STF could argue that the court underestimated the importance of the theological and historical evidence regarding the irrevocability of the initial designation. He could argue that the court gave disproportionate weight to the physical evidence without sufficiently considering the theological context.

STF could argue that the historical precedents for nass changes cited by the court are not comparable to the current context, as they often involved different circumstances (such as the untimely death of designated successors).

Personally, I'm quite disappointed with STF as they have been unable to provide any solid material evidence. STF evidence are purely theological and a civil court is in any case incapable of resolving such issue. I think their strategy of going to court was not the smartest move.

[juzer esmail]

In today's TOI

[Humsafar]

Of course, it boils down to wakfs, trusts and properties. It has always been this way. The fight for the Daiship was the fight for wealth and property which belongs to the community--not to the sole trustee Dia ul Badluck (of Bohras). And poor, gullible Bohras are being gamed in the name of religion and other trivialities.

[Sheikh Ali sadiq]

I dont know what was the need to post this in news paper because as far as I know STF holds no property of dawoodi bohras.

any one knows whats going on?

[qutub_mamajiwala]

In examining the decisions of the court, several points are apparent:

Importance of Material Evidence:
The court placed great importance on material evidence, particularly videos and audio recordings, which are tangible evidence and difficult to refute. Theological evidence, while significant in the religious context, was deemed less convincing in the absence of solid physical evidence.

Some flexibility of Nass Designations:
Historical precedents show a certain flexibility in nass designations, allowing the Dai to modify their choice according to circumstances. This weakens the argument of absolute irrevocability put forward by STF. The document cites several cases of change of Nass (death of the successor before the existing Dai)

Mental Capacity and Medical Background:
Although the 52nd Dai's state of health was a point of contention, the medical evidence presented by the defendant convinced the court of the Dai's sufficient mental capacity at the time of the designations.

Popularity
Although it's not explicitly mentioned anywhere, the popularity of SMS certainly played a part. On the other hand, the fact that SKQ/STF kept quiet before SMB's death might suggest opportunism (there is a whole section in the judgment on SKQ's actions after the events of 2011)

Therefore, the court's decision appears justified. The judgment recognizes the complexity of religious traditions, while relying on tangible evidence to reach a decision. In this context, it appears that the evidence in favor of SMS is more robust and convincing, justifying the court's decision to confirm his designation as legitimate successor.

STF could challenge the court's assessment of the 52nd Dai's mental capacity, claiming that the court failed to take sufficient account of medical evidence showing that the Dai was not mentally fit to confer the nass in 2011.

STF could argue that the court underestimated the importance of the theological and historical evidence regarding the irrevocability of the initial designation. He could argue that the court gave disproportionate weight to the physical evidence without sufficiently considering the theological context.

STF could argue that the historical precedents for nass changes cited by the court are not comparable to the current context, as they often involved different circumstances (such as the untimely death of designated successors).

Personally, I'm quite disappointed with STF as they have been unable to provide any solid material evidence. STF evidence are purely theological and a civil court is in any case incapable of resolving such issue. I think their strategy of going to court was not the smartest move.

there was no tangible and physical evidence from begining itself, and STF also made this clear right after when he published white paper. his sole arguement in that and afterwards was that. he is second in command. and when first is unavaible for any reason. the seconds words are ULTIMATE TRUTH. no where in history of 52 dais, mazun has gone against the dai, where in fact sons have gone against their father dai, eg dawoodi and sulemani fitenah where that time dais son have become sulemani while his mazun was on dawood bin ajabshah side.
this is not my reasoning, it is there in 9 vidoes of husain qutubuddin.
i dont know if this arguemnent was presented in court or not

regarding their going to court whether it was smart move or not--debatable and history will tell in future

[Sheikh Ali sadiq]

Going to court and losing the case definitely gives a negative impression, but in my opinion if they HELP people genuinely and listen to their issues and guide them via meetings slowly people will start changing their view.

right now people are in real mess and there is no way to go, in that case if FD acts swift and works for them, surely this court case wont affect nothing. MS is blinded by power and money and his side is totally ignoring people.

[juzer esmail]

*13 PEOPLE TAKE MISAAQ OF FATEMI DAWAT & BECOME MOOMIN*

May 17, 2024

Today, on Friday, May 17, 2024, 13 people from different backgrounds came to Mazaar-e-Qutbi from different cities all over India. They gave misaaq to the 54th Dai ul Mutlaq, Syedna Taher Fakhruddin ( tus ), & became Mumin. The Misaaq was conducted under the fortunate auspices of Rasul Hudood, Syedi Aziz Bhaisaab. Later on they were blessed by a bayaan from Mazoon e Dawat, Syedi Abdeali Bhaisaab Saifuddin ( AAB ). They prayed Jumaa Namaz with Imamat, & partook of the blessings of Salawat Jaman. Finally, they visited a place of heavenly barakat & noor, Raudatun Noor, the resting place of the 53rd Dai ul Mutlaq, Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin ( ra ).

The were greatly inspired by the Fatemi faith, & beliefs. One amongst them experienced a miracle when doctors had given up hope & after taking the Mannat of Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin ( ra ) he became alright. Another came out of depression after doing Matam of Imam Hussain ( sa ), & listening to Marsiya. These Mumineen came for only 1 purpose, for their najaat, salvation and spiritual guidance.

Syedna Taher Fakhruddin ( tus ) Zindabad !
Fatemi Dawat Zindabad !

_Circulated with Raza of the office of Fatemi Dawat_

[james]

In examining the decisions of the court, several points are apparent:

Importance of Material Evidence:
The court placed great importance on material evidence, particularly videos and audio recordings, which are tangible evidence and difficult to refute. Theological evidence, while significant in the religious context, was deemed less convincing in the absence of solid physical evidence.

Some flexibility of Nass Designations:
Historical precedents show a certain flexibility in nass designations, allowing the Dai to modify their choice according to circumstances. This weakens the argument of absolute irrevocability put forward by STF. The document cites several cases of change of Nass (death of the successor before the existing Dai)

Mental Capacity and Medical Background:
Although the 52nd Dai's state of health was a point of contention, the medical evidence presented by the defendant convinced the court of the Dai's sufficient mental capacity at the time of the designations.

Popularity
Although it's not explicitly mentioned anywhere, the popularity of SMS certainly played a part. On the other hand, the fact that SKQ/STF kept quiet before SMB's death might suggest opportunism (there is a whole section in the judgment on SKQ's actions after the events of 2011)

Therefore, the court's decision appears justified. The judgment recognizes the complexity of religious traditions, while relying on tangible evidence to reach a decision. In this context, it appears that the evidence in favor of SMS is more robust and convincing, justifying the court's decision to confirm his designation as legitimate successor.

STF could challenge the court's assessment of the 52nd Dai's mental capacity, claiming that the court failed to take sufficient account of medical evidence showing that the Dai was not mentally fit to confer the nass in 2011.

STF could argue that the court underestimated the importance of the theological and historical evidence regarding the irrevocability of the initial designation. He could argue that the court gave disproportionate weight to the physical evidence without sufficiently considering the theological context.

STF could argue that the historical precedents for nass changes cited by the court are not comparable to the current context, as they often involved different circumstances (such as the untimely death of designated successors).

Personally, I'm quite disappointed with STF as they have been unable to provide any solid material evidence. STF evidence are purely theological and a civil court is in any case incapable of resolving such issue. I think their strategy of going to court was not the smartest move.

There wasn't any theological evidence put up by the dawedaars which was overlooked by the Judge in the Bombay High Court case. Every single accusation of Khuzaima and his ilk has been shattered if one bothers to read the Judgement in full. Many people posting on this forum feel vindicated against the stupid Chinese Whispers played by the minions in the past.

Now look at these words in the Judgement. This is a tight slap on the Dawedaar.

One observation is unavoidable. Clearly, the Plaintiff applies
different standards to the nass he claims was conferred on himself and
the nussoos of the Defendant. It is all right, we are told, if the nass on
the Original Plaintiff did not use the words nass, Mansoos, crown, or
anything of the kind. It does not matter that it was without witnesses
and in private, and never revealed or even alluded to. It is all right if
there is some nebulous and unspecified ‘indication’ (some words, a
ring). We are asked to extrapolate and from this infer a nass, inter alia
on the account of MOHSL, not one of whom is brought forward to
bear witness. But for the Defendant, audio, video, and the depositions
of those actually present are all worthless. The court’s own study and
appreciation of the audio-visual material is worthless. All this can be
jettisoned by literally demanding that — and there is no other way to
put it — the nass on the Defendant was not sufficiently clear.

[zinger]

The advanced search feature works wonders. Not sure why you are complaining when it was you who asked for it in the first place. Be careful to not call me a liar again.




So now you profess to know more than Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. But then again, whatever happened to being convinced seeing the Quran in Khuzaima's hand on the night of 16-17th January 2014? If Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA chose Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS according to you ..then surely Khuzaima was lying whilst holding the Quran?



There is a saying "You become what you hate"

Your posts are on par with incredible/multi-id troll lately.

As for your real identity, let's hope you don't request the Admin for account deletion again.

bhai james, you should quit smoking what you are. its making you delusional.

Bhai James, please continue to dig up more of my old posts if that is how you get your jollies.

as for the smoking part, sorry if it got your goat but that is usually my cue to stop any further debates because they are clearly going nowhere

[Sheikh Ali sadiq]

Modi to dubi gayo lets see if MS will see same defeat in coming times or Allah plan is to give him some more time.

time will tell.....keep watching.

[zinger]

Modi to dubi gayo lets see if MS will see same defeat in coming times or Allah plan is to give him some more time.

time will tell.....keep watching.

what i loved about the elections this time was
1. while the monster may have won, he was nowhere close to being the absolute majority. clearly he will now be held with a gun to his head by his alliance partners.
2. all of Rahul Gandhi's hard work paid off. clearly, he has begun to shed the image of him that the monster had created over the past decade

democracy is all about checks and balances and the monster will have plenty of those. (although there are some whispers of a certain RSS-cadre politician from Nagpur perhaps assuming office

democracy was saved by the citizens of this great country.

Jai Hind. Hindustan Zindabad. Bharat Mata ki Jai

[james]

Bhai James, please continue to dig up more of my old posts if that is how you get your jollies.

as for the smoking part, sorry if it got your goat but that is usually my cue to stop any further debates because they are clearly going nowhere

It's your cue only when your lies are exposed. Next time please do not claim you believed Khuzaima in 2014. Even the Lanati Abdeali has gone on record and claimed that Nass was done on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. Taher was questioned on this and replied in the affirmative.It's all there in the judgement.

[zinger]

Bhai James, please continue to dig up more of my old posts if that is how you get your jollies.

as for the smoking part, sorry if it got your goat but that is usually my cue to stop any further debates because they are clearly going nowhere

It's your cue only when your lies are exposed. Next time please do not claim you believed Khuzaima in 2014. Even the Lanati Abdeali has gone on record and claimed that Nass was done on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS. Taher was questioned on this and replied in the affirmative.It's all there in the judgement.

yes, i believe and believed Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin to be the Haq na Dai and Mufaddal Maula is the dawedaar since 2014.
Accepting that Nass was done is not the same as accepting that Nass was legit.

[Sheikh Ali sadiq]

I think this website will do lot of action in long run

https://realbohras.com/

Kudos