for all the hardcore bohri's

[batool]

i havent posted anything on here for while, but i often come here to read what people have to say.
this post is for all the hardcore bohri's on this site trying REALLY REALLY hard to protect our wonderful and hypocritical religion.
Were we born muslims to begin with.. or bohri's? did Allah create us or did Maulana create us?
please dont get me wrong, i'm not making an indirect attack at Maulana regardless of whether i support the whole put your hands together when you see maulana and run to whereever he goes cause your sins will be forgiven if you see him....
anyway.
i'm guessing, your answer is we were born muslims...
howcome bohri's never allow non muslims to pray in our mosque? howcome we are open heartedly allowed to pray in any mosque we like because we classify ourselves as muslims?
when we fill out forms, and when it comes to religion, do we ever write Bohra? i'm sorry, but i've never met anyone who does that..

all i see everyone doing on this site is arguing with so much bullshit.. is it not possible to answer the question straight up..
maybe not.. cause you dont have a good enough answer..

just something you just think about..

[batool]

SORRY, I MADE A MISTAKE, I'M IN A HURRY ..

howcome bohri's never allow non BOHRI'S to pray in our mosque? howcome we are open heartedly allowed to pray in any mosque we like because we classify ourselves as muslims?

....................................

just something FOR you TO think about..

MY BAD..

[Tasneem]

where did you get that idea from??? They are allowed to come and pray at our masjids...no one stops them

[Tasneem]

where did you get that idea from??? They are allowed to come and pray at our masjids...no one stops them

[batool]

my bad, i've never seent that happened

[Tasneem]

happy to clear your misunderstandings for you... however i would advice you to not jump to conclusions just because you've never seen something happen... just because you didn't see it, it doesn't mean it hasn't happened...how about finding some base to your matter before putting someone down...

[SBM]

Dear Tasneem
I donot which Masjid U R talking where NON BOHRAs are welcom. It is one of the reasons that most of Bohra Masaajids are known as MARKAZ that way that can block entrance of other people. In any Muslim country if U call it Masjid than U cannot stop anybody from coming and pryaing but by calling it MARKAZ U can only allow card carrying members to come in Please donot run away from facts and donot give the spins

[Tasneem]

i am talking about any masjid! wherever i've traveled in my life there was not one masjid that was banned for other people. card carrying? ok no masjid i go to check if i have a card...what masjid are you talking about? and there are plenty of times when other muslims have come and prayed in our masjid... and same goes for other countries as well.

[khan19922001]

Dear Tasneem

We are talking about Bohri Masjids. I cannot rememeber seeing any non-Bohri's in a Bohri mosque. Probably because we have a dress code and we combine the prayers, which the majority of muslims do not do.

Regards

[Muslim First]

.
In addition to what br. Khan mentioned Bohra's are commanded by their prayer leaders to pray special prayers for their Maula and his father.

They also do ritual maatam, and sing songs in praise of their Maula.

This all happens doring Magrib/Ishaa prayer.

Mainstream Muslim consider all these 'Shirk' bacause Allah says "And the Mosques are for Allah (alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah" [Q72:18]

.

[Average Bohra]

"Brother" Muslim First,

Bohra's are commanded by their prayer leaders to pray special prayers for their Maula and his father.

and your comments regarding your brethren committing videotaped beheadings are ?

They also do ritual maatam, and sing songs in praise of their Maula.

and your comments regarding your brethren committing videotaped beheadings are ?

This all happens doring Magrib/Ishaa prayer.

and your comments regarding your brethren committing videotaped beheadings are ?

Mainstream Muslim consider all these 'Shirk' bacause Allah says "And the Mosques are for Allah (alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah" [Q72:18]

and your comments regarding your brethren committing videotaped beheadings are ?

Shame on you and your ignorance ......

[Muslim First]

.
Dear Br. Average Bohra

Beheading of innocent civilian is reprehansible and has no legal or religious support. I hope these people would be found and given fitting punishment.

Wasalaam

.

[Tasneem]

just because you never saw it happen that doesn't mean it hasn't. i'll repeat again that there have been non-bohri's praying at our local masjid. now they don't pray with us but on their own. the point is that they're not banned from entering our masjid.

we aren't commanded. it's our personal choice to pray for the long life of moulana.
sing songs, well if you're talking about madehs then that doesn't happen everytime, its during majalis that we do so. why is it a problem?? as for matam, that is for showing our grief for imam hussain (as) and again...why is this a problem??
and it doesn't happen during prayers it happens between them

how is it shirk to do matam and say madehs in the masjid?? they both have to do with awliyallah ....

[SBM]

Dear Tasneem
Please name the masjid and the place and time and who was the Aamil Saheb who allowed NON BOHRAS to enter and pray, Just name plese and no lectures

[anajmi]

"Brother" Average Moron,

It shows your ignorance when you say club the all muslims together with those who were committing the beheading on videotape. It is attitude like yours which has caused chaos all around the world and innocent people are paying with their lives.

The fact that Americans did not videotape their bombings does not mean that they haven't caused any less carnage. Here we have one beheading on tape and there we have thousands dead without a videotape. But talking to you is like "bhains ke aage been bajaana"

[khan19922001]

Dear Tasneem

I have been bought up as a bohra. ( Though no longer interested to continue as one) I have been frequetly going to the so called "our" mosques and have never seen a non-Bohra there. The reason is simple. We have made namaz more of a show that an obligatory duty. We are more concerned about our masallahs and topi and rida etc etc.

We have added numerous innovations to the prayers. The most recent one being the doing of "matam" after every farz namaz. This never used to happen before. The fact that "matam" is considered by other muslims as a innovation is a different issue.

When you enter a non-Bohra mosque the first thing you notice is the lack of noise. ( Bohra mosques keep the children at the back rows and the commotion they create is unbelievable. Plus the females are on the first floor and they just stop their non ending chatter only during the farz prayer. I can challenge anyonewho says that this does not happen. The Amal Sahen has to threaten several times to the public to becom quiet)

Every time you enter the Bohra mosque, there is someone standing asking for money under one pretext or the other. I in the end got so fed up that I stopped going to the masjids. I am now a regular goer at the local non-Bohri mosque, where I can pray peacefully, take my son with me, don't have to do matam, don't have to pay anything to anybody and more importantly have peace of mind. The mosque is for prayers, not a social club which the Bohri's have turned it into.

Regards

[hur]

Dear Khan,

Regarding your comments...I would question them or say at least they are the norm in every mosque..bohra or otherwise.

The reason you hear little noise in a non-bohra mosque is because hardly anyone is there...let alone women or children. Try going on Friday during Juma'ah.

I will NOT challenge your statement regarding women, children, social club, etc. What I do challenge is the irrational idea of it being a Bohra trait only. These things happen and even more so in Memon, Itna Ashari, Arab, Iranian, etc mosques as well.

Regarding matam after pray...custom of Imam Zaynul Abidin. Whether you think its a show or not is to your own. You cannot be subjective of another person's actions or true belief by what you see them do or not do.

Salams

[hur]

Dear Omabarti,
Sayedna at the inaguaration of the mosques in Houston, Chicago, Surat mosques...a muslim represented of the state prayed behind him.

The local amils at each of Houston and Chicago mosques allows muslim to pray in the mosques as well as other religions to participate in ceremonies (nikahs).

[WYP]

there is no question of 'allowing' somebody to enter or not. we frequently see other muslims in our mosque, esp on fridays. there is no way you can deny entry to other muslims. however, when they see our dress, our method of namaaz and realise the difference, they very rarely show up again. in my time in our small mosque in north america, i have very rarely seen a repeat appearance by a non-bohra in our mosque. we dont encourage it niether do we discourage it. also we will not change our method of prayer for the sake of other muslims.

[hur]

WYP,
I would second your statement. I would also add that this same stance is taken by other sect within their mosques. I attend a sunni mosque because it is close to me...but I pray as a shiah would.

Some may comment but most don't say anything...because they have four sects of sunnis attending anyways..praying different ways. They bicker amongst themselves..let alone with me, on whose right. It is because I accept the way they pray that I continue to go.

[SBM]

Dear Hur
That was a special occassion that a Non Bohra prayed with Bohras. I am talking about regular Non Bohras coming to our Masjids in non special occassion

[SBM]

Dear Hur
Also regarding your comment that no body goes to NON BOHRA masjid. Either U live in Timbaktu or Cuba because the masjids in India, Pakistan Europe
America and middle east are always occupied specially for Maghrib and ISha Namaz. Let us not even talk about Friday Prayers Once again wrong spin

[khan19922001]

Brother Hur

Thank you for your comments. However to say that nobody goes to the non-Bohra mosques is not true. I have been going to my local mosques and it is full and on Fridays it is packed to the maximum with NO NOISE OR CHATTER.

Bohris have turned thier mosques into Social Clubs. Like it or not, this is true. Although in Saudi Arabai, there is place for women in the mosques, there is hardly any noise as they cannot be seen or can see the males.

Regarding the matam after every farz prayers, I am not doubting that it was the tradition of the Imams, however why have we taken so long to follow it ???

Regards

[Tasneem]

social club? i disagree. we don't chit-chat all the way through and disgrace the adab of the masjid. We are quiet. I agree that children do make noise, but they're children, and the mothers do try their best to keep them shut. matam is unpeaceful noise to you? i don't know what i can say about that because it is our culture to remember Imam Hussain (As) every day and if you are a bohra you would find it quite peaceful to do matam and remember imam hussain (as)

That was a special occassion that a Non Bohra prayed with Bohras. I am talking about regular Non Bohras coming to our Masjids in non special occassion

how is it a special occasion? Just because moula (tus) was leading the prayer shouldn't make a difference. And if we don't allow other pple to pray in our masjids then shouldn't he have not allowed it as well. Letting that guy pray shows that we have no problem.

[khan19922001]

Dear Tasneem

I am not implying that you are lying, but please direct me to any bohra mosque, where the adab of the masjid, as you phrase it is maintained. I can show a number of moques where the noise of the ladies and children is out of control.

Matam is a personal choice and I am not going to force my opinion on any one. I am not at all comfortable with it and therefore avoid it.

Our masjids have become social clubs to meet members of the opposite sex and have a good time. This is the fact whether you want to believe it or not.

Regards

[ado sayed]

dear omabarti,

yes in sri lanka 4th cross street, peetah, colombo 11

non bohri are not allowed to go in. and also they wash the place if a non bohri enter the place.

can you something on this?

with this how can sydna go as a state guest to sunni countries. NO SHAME!

[hur]

Dear Khan and Omar

Yes that was a special occassion, but it commonly occurs with Sayedna. Regarding the amils allowing it...I commonly see this. Many shiahs..including myself..attention ashura functions there.

Also my intention was not to say nobody goes to a non-bohra mosque!!! I said the reason why it was quiet is typically only the men attend daily prayers...and those in very, very, very small numbers..COMPARED TO JUMAH. It is a custom that women do not go to mosque except Fridays. I know this in the US as well as in the mideast. And to say that the Juma'ah prayer atmosphere is any different than a bohras regular is just wrong.

Like you noted Br. Khan..in the mideast..if there is place for women to pray in mosques...is it totally isolated from the men. This is not so with traditional bohra mosque which have either a women gallery just above or behind or a separate section that is partition by a vail of some kind. Which by the way is tradition of the Prophet's time. This is common in west africa and some areas of egypt and india/pakistan. Shiah mosques typically use a vail of some kind.

[khan19922001]

Dear Hur

You mentioned is another thread that masjids are not clean because they are used for purposes other than salats. I know this is true of the Bohri masjids where there are darees etc going on. But in a typical non-bohri mosque, there is no activity other than prayers. In any case why should we wash carpets everyday. The people who pray on the carpets are not dirty. While dust does accumulate regular vaccumming cleans it up. I am not a believer of creating hindrances in the way of Salat. The Fajr prayer here is at 4.45 am, if I start looking for my masallah, topi, etc etc. I will have to get up at 4,00 everyday.

Also please note that I have been bought up in Bohra home for the last 40 years and it is only now that I started to challenges our beliefs and rituals.

Regards

[hur]

Br. Khan,
Typically and from my experiences, all masajids are used for more than just prayers. Halaqahs, lectures, nikahs, etc. are held in masajids. In the sunni mosque I attend...most of the men come straight from there work to pray..with the same clothing to pray. I know my white socks get dirty from wearing my own shoes.

It is not a point of just being clean..but a state of tahir/wudu. You may have just taken a shower with just-washed clothing...but you are not tahir until you do wudu. This is the same for what we are to pray on. This is the reason for the masallah...a "namazi" thing to pray on. To be and pray on something that is tahir is not a hindrances...but something you need to pray.

There is nothing wrong in challenging or trying to understand beliefs, but you should first learn the reason behind something before you say it is wrong.

And believe me, it is not a bohra thing, but at minimum, a shiah irkan...supported by the sunnah.

[khan19922001]

Dear Br. Hur

Thanks for your input.

Where do u reside. I am in Saudi Arabia, if you have not guessed it by now.

What about masallah's in the holy haram. That place is regularly washed and cleaned and I am sure people will get upset if we say that they are not praying on clean land and have to use masallah.

Even the Shia's don't bring their masallah's to the Haram and believe me if they belived it, they would not have bothered with what any one else had to say about it.

Regards