Ismali Faith as per Yasmin

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Dear Porus,<p>"Do I detect only a semantic difference between the Bohra and Nizari viewpoints, except that Bohras do not allow for abolishing the sharia?"<p>--It is an Shiah belief that the Imam is Quran-natiq, a living professor and actor of the Quran...this includes the shariah (sunnah) which the Quran refers to. He takes this base of divine info and applies it so that it can be practiced correctly in today's environment.<p>The Imam has not the ability to receive a new shariah nor eliminate parts of it. This only the Natiq has.<p>"Have you heard of 'every 7th Imam' being a Naatiq?"<p>---It was a belief of Sayyidna Sijistani that the every seventh Imam (leading to the Saba'a sect) is a natiq...but in his books he very much clarifies the limitation of this Imam.<p>"There is also an apocryphal story about Ali withholding parts of the revelation from the published Quran? Is this correct, or does the withheld part refer to revelation not supposed to be in the Quraan, as we discusssed previously?"<p>---From what I know, and please correct me if other know more, the parts withheld are further explaination and batin revelation in regards to the Quran...which is the part of the Quran.<p>"There is a popular notion among lay Bohras that while Quran is divine, it is incomplete just like Nizari says. However, I have not been able to verify Bohra scholarly view on this matter. Bohra scholars appear not to have view on this although they are not discouraging the popular notion. They also believe that complete Quran was with Ali and is now with Imam who is in seclusion.<br>So, there is remarkable agreement between Nizaris and Bohras on core issue of Imamat etc. The point of departure, apart from ritualistic aspects discussed previously, is that Bohras will have nothing to do with Vishnu or Avataars of Vishnu. That seems outside the Muslim orthodoxy."<p>---The bohras believe that the Quran we have is complete, barring a few grammatic error in printing. The Quran, the zahir and batin, is also with the Ahl Bayt. Regarding the Hindu concepts...I have never heard in relations to it...I don't have a complete answer on it.

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To all on this thread,<br>The question being asked of me totally outside the topic...and the topic is getting really muddled.<p>The topic is very worthwhile. Could someone please diseminate the two. Thank you

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Gur deva,<p>The lady swallowed it hook line and sinker. She has filled in the gaps left by akber mian.<p>khoja di kudi aqal di kucchi.<p>babu

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May Allah bless us all, Baburao (the intelligent one) and Gud have graced us with their presence once again.<p>Yasmin,<p>According to what I hear from Ismailis, the Ismailis faith is all about, lying to other Muslims, cheating, manipulating, hiding behind alter-egos. Right?<p>And also ...<p>Since you say that the farmans of the HI are like the quran to you, did the idea of compiling these firmans in the form of a book and calling it The New Quran ever cross the mind of any Ismaili?? If yes, then is there such a book available and where can I find it.<p>If not, why not?<p>Please explain.<p>

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Anybody ever wonder why Ismailis are required not to publicize their believes.<p>I mean c'mon who'd want to risk becoming the laughing stock of the world!!

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This is my response to all those who criticize me for accepting Hindu beliefs, eg: Ali as Kalkli Avatar.<p>First i should point out as Hafeez has, that the Avatar beliefs are exclusive to those within the Indian tradition. (those in Iran or Syria will not accept them) I grew up in Canada, nevertheless, this Indian tradition fits in with my personal theological and philosophical beliefs.<p>You should all be aware that Islam is an eternal religion. It did not start with Prophet Muhammad. He brought its final revelation and revealed the Imamat - the perfection of Islam. In the Quran Allah makes it clear that He revealed a way and a law to every nation. Therefore, the core message of Islam was preached in every nation - including India. Therefore, Hinduism in its ORIGINAL form was really Islam. As was Christianity, Judaism, and Zorastrianism. However, over the many thousands of years, the pure monotheistic religion of India became polluted with polytheistic elements. But the fact remains that the religion of Islam was present everywhere. <p>What the Ismaili Pirs did in India was revive the Islam that was present within the Hindu religion. They helped revert the Hindus to the right path of Islam, the religion of their ancestors. <p>You must take into account that humans have been on earth for millions of years - as scientists have found. This means that there were humans before the advent of the Biblical Prophet Adam - a fact that many orthodox ppl are unwilling to accept. neverthelesss, this is true. This also means that there were Imams in those eras aswell. The historical Ram and the Krishna existed during these pre-Adamic eras. The other Avatars such as the boar etc are probably allegorical. However, it must be pointed out and according to evolution, there was once a time when fish was the highest standard of living things on earth. And there must have been an exalted soul (Imam) present even during that time - see 1st Avatar, Genesis 1:-3, Holy Qouran 11:7 - regarding the Divine Prescence over the waters.<p>I hope you all understand my point. You cannot simply dismiss the traditions and scriptures of other faiths as being completely false. We are all free to go through them, using the Quran and Imam as our Criterion. Always keep in mind that Allah gave a message to every nation, not only the Arab ones.

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Anajmi,<p>regarding the "New Quran", the Imams firmans are interpretations of the Quran revealed to Prophet Muhammad. The Imam is not setting out a new revelation. His interpretations are time bound and may change when he wishes. Therefore, it is completely ridiculous to create a "new Quran" when the Quran is Allah's final message.

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I am an Ismaili. I reject the beliefs of yasmin and company. Neither we not our tariqa believes in all the above non-sense. Again you guys are satisfying yourself by some dummy ismailies here. Alahamdolillah I don

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Salim<p>I got you foold<p>Aga Khanis are not brave to reveal their beliefs in publick. Ahemeias had guts to admit and reveal their belief. <p>You are Aga Khani. Go ahead anser same question as Yasmin has answered.<p>Do you want me toist them and start a new thread.<p>Now go get some holey water splashe on your face.<p>Peace.<p>

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<br>Nizari;-"The historical Ram and the Krishna existed during these pre-Adamic eras"<p>Do you have proof for this or this is B>S> as usual<p>

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"I mean c'mon who'd want to risk becoming the laughing stock of the world!! "<p>Anajmi bhaya, you have never stopped making a fool of yourself; I guess the wahabis and lapsed bohras will risk anything (in the name of Islam?)After all what do they have to lose - they never had any credibility. Let us not go over the same ground again; lets quarrel over something else. How about a juicy hadith or two?<br>

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> Khairan,<br>Are you still expressing the points from a "personal viewpoints" or are you now commenting from an organized religion?<p>hafeez, <br>which points are you referring to?<br>In general, as I do not ally myself to any organized fiqh (though I have shia biases), I suppose that by necessity all of my opinions are my personal understanding, unless I say I am trying to describe what other people think.<br>I draw on what scholars and outside opinions I can, but in the end the opinions I form, right or wrong, are my own.<p>My complaint about the concept of the Imamat is not that I don't think it can or should exist, but that I find no way of PROVING that it does. If you are a shia, you accept the shia hadith and interpretations of the Qur'an, which support the view of the imamat. But, in order to accept the evidence supporting shiism, you must first be a shia. It is the same for sunnis - they will follow ahadith that do not support imamat, and by not believing in imamat they are sunni.<p>It all seems very circular to me, and I wonder if there is a path of reason by which one can discern where the truth lies.

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There is proof that Imamat exists.

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There is an Ismaili scholar by the name of Navali who has written much about Imamat and Eternal Islam with support from the Quran, the Bible, the Gita, the Dead Sea Scrolls and many other sources. I suggest you read his articles. <p>Most of the stuff I know I learned from him. A lot of the stuff I posted were found by him. I would strongly advise you to read these VERY CAREFULLY, as it can get confusing.<p>Articles at Fortuncity:<p>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/i ... ible.htm<p> <br>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/p ... tion1.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/submission.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/ismailism2.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/imamat1.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/descendant.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/mshirk.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/melchisedec1.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/hajarep.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/alibirthpl.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/m ... stood.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/ismailism1.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/allahparty.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/alimadad.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/alibirthpl1.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/answer.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/ibliss.html <p> http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/abrahambible.html <p><br>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/alikabah.htm <p>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/ithnasharism.htm <p>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/a ... ipics.html <p>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/submission1.htm <p>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/s ... urrect.htm <p>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/i ... tution.htm <p><br>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/index.html <p><br>http://members.fortunecity.com/navali/submission.html <p>Articles at Geocities can be accessed at:<p>http://www.geocities.com/navali/links.html<p>Navali's rebuttal to the Christian Right:<p>http://www.geocities.com/navali/frnds_i ... ption.html <p>http://www.geocities.com/navali/2frnds_ ... g_2.htm<br>

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Nizari,<p>I guess I will never be able to understand the fact that the quran will not change but its interpretation will keep changing.<p>What they have changed to and from what, not a single Ismaili has been able to show. All I want is the Aga Khani interpretation of a single ayah of the quran, that's it, one single ayah, please, any ismaili, please.<p>

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baburao,<p>I would prefer not to enter into any kind of discussion with the likes of you and I would appreciate it if you do not direct any of your replies to me.

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Although I know that I am just too good (or too bad) for some to resist, so if you find it hard to do that, I will understand.

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Nizari,<p>These firmans, are they in any way related to what is there in the quran? If yes then I am sure you will be able to point out the section of the quran to which a particular farman refers to. Can you do that?

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Babu bhaya,<p>He still remembers the roasting, you ExMuslim and I gave him and his master MF. Remember the quacking? Woh bi kya din the<p>Guru

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Gud,<p>I wasn't the one who had to go on a vacation with a sore butt!!