Inside Saifee Mahal

[Aftab]

Thank you all for your excellent suggestions and input. Yes, there is no end to the amount of resources we have at our disposal. Yes, we will tap in to them.

Accountability, humsafar and like-minded have said YES to this loud and clear. Thank you, thank you. Can I please get the same confirmation from humle_servent, ghulam muhammed, abbas_mash and of course Insafbhai.

Let us roll up the rim!

[ghulam muhammed]

The actions which need to be taken as suggested by all of you are all very good but it only needs to be channeliesed in a proper way. As I stated in my earlier posts, I still feel that the very important thing is to first remove the fear which is prevailing in the minds of bohras. If we see around us we will find that majority of the oppressors have been able to rule over their subjects by applying the "fear psychosis" which is exactly what kothar does. The thing which is most precious to a person is his life and hence attack on his/her life is something which he/she fears the most. That is why goondas and politicians are the ones against whom people rarely come out in the open.

This is the same case with bohras and the only difference here is not so much the fear of death in this life but the fear of hellfire in the afterlife. They have been made to believe that jannat is not possible without "ruku chithi" and that burhanudin saab is the only one who will take them to jannat provided a bohra holds his "daaman". For them there is no role at all of Rasul Allah s.a.w., Panjatan pak a.s. and Auliya Allahs. This gross misunderstanding and misrepresantation has to be first removed.

The other factor which is given importance is the "society factor". Religion, as someone mentioned earlier is a religion of convenience which is what bohras are looking for in which society plays a very important part ,and for bohras society means a "cluster of bohras", they never look beyond bohras and prefer to remain clinged with other bohras like a herd of sheep. This is because they are restrained by kothar from interacting with any non bohra muslims specially on matters of religion due to immense poison that has been injected in their minds.They are "kuva ma medak" and for them, doing tarr tarr tarr in the well and amongst themselves means that they have accomplished everything. We have to make them see the real oceans in this world for them to realize the insignificance of their well. By this I mean that they have to be shown the other side of Islam i.e. the beliefs and guidelines that the other muslims follow and allow them to compare their beliefs with what the other absolute majority follows and then decide for themselves as to how and where are they wrong.

An average gullible bohra is first shown the greatness of Hazrat Ali a.s., so much so that at times Ali a.s. is elevated above the Holy Prophet s.a.w. (Nauzubillah) thereby proving their rightousness as being called "Ali na shia". Then the next step is to distort the ahadiths and history and then wrongly project the other 3 Khalifas as villians by showing them as enemies of Ali a.s. Then laanats are showered on them to further create a picture which shows them as enemies of Ali a.s.

Thus bohras are made to believe that the believers of the 3 Khalifas are the enemies of Hazrat Ali a.s. and by virtue of which they are shown as bohra's enemies. Hence the believers of the 3 khalifas are then looked upon with an eye of contempt and poison although it is an established fact that they respect Ali a.s. a lot and never abuse Him or shower laanats like the bohras. Once the fact that the other non bohra muslims also respect Ali a.s. is established amongst bohras then they will willingly interact with them and enter into discussions and then they will be able to see the corrupt kothar's administration and its evil teachings.

Every bohra on this forum has access to the other misguided bohras and so one can easily by a word of mouth start spreading the message on the above mentioned lines. What we need to do is to first initiate a thought process and then compel the misguided ones to start thinking on the above lines. Every thought ultimately leads to an action and every action leads to reforms.

[Danish]

We as humans have absolutely no knowledge of the afterlife and hence promoting extraordinary claims by sheer lies, deceit and vanity in Allah's name, or prophet's name or Ali's name or whosoever's/whatever's name to entice and lure people to say and do things because of them or because of afterlife, leads to fear and mental instability, which further leads to hatred, wars and divisions. This we already know and yet some convey the same message with a little twist and spice. Whether one promotes the "bliss of paradise" or the "fear of hell", it is the same thing. People must refrain from making such wanton claims and start contemplating and reasoning on the causes and effects of life and nature as given by the very events and circumstances that dictates us in our own paths and to better understand and promote righteousness for our survival. The "fable of the eagle" posted earlier is great but to entice and throb it upon Islamic beliefs and concepts rather than understanding its epilogue from moral standpoint on humanitarian grounds, is exactly what makes Islam dangerous. The eagle fable can be claimed by any other religion or cults; what's the difference. And the way I understand the fable, it does not come even close to Islamic concept. Give it more time and this fable will become an Islamic fact and then divine, LOL!

[danishwar]

there are people who use reform to release their anger and frustration against islam.These cowards dont have courage even to remove the old man's pic from their own houses.
They are here to distract normal visitors of this site ,creating an impression that reformists have nothing to do with bohra faith or Islam in general.

[like_minded]

danishwar

What is bohra faith? explain

[like_minded]

They are here to distract normal visitors of this site ,creating an impression that reformists have nothing to do with bohra faith or Islam in general.

I believe reform is much to do with the reality of life and the bliss of awareness, this applies to every human beings on this planet who are sucked into faith and religion. I believe the purpose of life is the joy in the present moment and if there is anyone or anything including religion which tells you different, recognize it as LIES.

[danishwar]

danishwar

What is bohra faith? explain

here u r :
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/252/97/U ... l_article/

[like_minded]

danishwar

What is bohra faith? explain

here u r :
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/252/97/U ... l_article/

Very convenient! Just copy and paste!

[danishwar]

really convenient try to read it.

[like_minded]

Islamic history has nothing to do with our present lives.. It is history and it will remain that way. If you cling onto it, you'd miss the opportunity offered by life in the present moment.

[danishwar]

I believe the purpose of life is the joy in the present moment and if there is anyone or anything including religion which tells you different, recognize it as LIES.

so lets enjoy the present moment .
come on lets celebrate the present rule of kothar in our daily lives.

forget religion which says to fight against injustice is obligatory.

[like_minded]

I believe the purpose of life is the joy in the present moment and if there is anyone or anything including religion which tells you different, recognize it as LIES.

so lets enjoy the present moment .
come on lets celebrate the present rule of kothar in our daily lives.

forget religion which says to fight against injustice is obligatory.

Injustice needs to be fought with courage and conviction, Do you need religion to tell you that??? If yes, then believe me, you cannot win this battle.

[like_minded]

I believe the purpose of life is the joy in the present moment and if there is anyone or anything including religion which tells you different, recognize it as LIES.

so lets enjoy the present moment .
come on lets celebrate the present rule of kothar in our daily lives.

forget religion which says to fight against injustice is obligatory.

If you give importance to religion and faith, then remember, todays it is Kothar, tomorrow we might have some other gangsters (clergy) As long as people are ready to bow down to faith and religion, you'll never have shortage of clergies, who'd then enslave us for obvious reasons.

[danishwar]

and what if we have atheists like stalin or an anwar sadat in chair.

[like_minded]

and what if we have atheists like stalin or an anwar sadat in chair.

I wouldn't know that, I hate speculating when it comes to religion. Although, there is one thing for sure, as long as religion (its history) faith, beliefs and all other nonsense which comes along with it, is given importance, human beings will remain divided which will in turn lead to more miseries and mayhem.

[danishwar]

todays it is Kothar, tomorrow we might have some other gangsters (clergy)

I wouldn't know that, I hate speculating when it comes to religion.

thnx like minded for your honest confession.
I really enjoyed this moment.

[like_minded]

danishwar

The point to understand is... Kothar alone cannot be blamed for the present scenario in our community.. They are just living up to their true self and we know what that is.. It's time we take the responsibility on ourselves and rise up. You cannot stick to any kind of dogmas to prove them wrong and over throw them, common sense has to prevail, people must start realizing that there is nothing to fear!

Religion thrives on fear, If there is no fear, religion would cease to exist, Can't we trust our own selves or rather believe in ourselves to differentiate between good and bad? I am sure we can! then why the hell do we need religion in the first place?

[like_minded]

In short, we have to by courage and conviction, try to put an end to the misrule of Kothar, It's high time we stop yakking about Islam and its blah blah history to drive the point home.

[Aftab]

by like_minded on Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:33 am

In short, we have to by courage and conviction, try to put an end to the misrule of Kothar, It's high time we stop yakking about Islam and its blah blah history to drive the point home.

Well said like_minded. This is what Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had to say on this.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (January 15, 1929 – April 4, 1968)
"Remaining Awake through a Great Revolution", an address at the Episcopal National Cathedral, Washington D.C. (31 March 1968)

When Rip Van Winkle went up into the mountain, the sign had a picture of King George the Third of England. When he came down twenty years later the sign had a picture of George Washington, the first president of the United States. When Rip Van Winkle looked up at the picture of George Washington—and looking at the picture he was amazed—he was completely lost. He knew not who he was.

And this reveals to us that the most striking thing about the story of Rip Van Winkle is not merely that Rip slept twenty years, but that he slept through a revolution. While he was peacefully snoring up in the mountain a revolution was taking place that at points would change the course of history—and Rip knew nothing about it. He was asleep. Yes, he slept through a revolution. And one of the great liabilities of life is that all too many people find themselves living amid a great period of social change, and yet they fail to develop the new attitudes, the new mental responses, that the new situation demands. They end up sleeping through a revolution.

On some positions, Cowardice asks the question "Is it safe?" Expediency asks the question "Is it politic?" And Vanity comes along and asks the question "Is it popular?" But Conscience asks the question "Is it right?" And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must do it because Conscience tells him it

[anajmi]

Aftab,

According to Bush, it was his conscience that led him to attach Iraq. And it is conscience that makes him support Israeli atrocities in Palestine. Do what is right and not what your conscience tells you to. How do you know what is right? Aah, now that is the most important question. Do you have faith in what you think is right? like_minded does not want you to have faith. If you have no faith then how is anyone supposed to trust you?

danishwar asked a question

and what if we have atheists like stalin or an anwar sadat in chair.

and what was like_minded's response?

I wouldn't know that, I hate speculating when it comes to religion.

The speculation was supposed to be for one with a lack of religion and not about religion.

As far as I am concerned, I wouldn't trust someone who doesn't have faith or belief. When the going gets tough, these people will run.

[Danish]

Faith or trust is judgmental and must have a known entity (someone or something) and proven attributes (qualitative and quantitative). Religion is a farce dogma (a foolish show)and built upon deceptive, logically unsound and meaningless principles. It is a ridiculous sham in totality.

[Aftab]

The speculation was supposed to be for one with a lack of religion and not about religion.

As far as I am concerned, I wouldn't trust someone who doesn't have faith or belief. When the going gets tough, these people will run.

anajmi,

That is a real tough one. This is only my personal experience and again it is mine alone.

I have come across many who have no faith yet their actions and value systems are very altruist. Faith is based on rituals, theology, institutions and value systems. What is interesting is rituals, theology and institutions differ from faith to faith, yet value systems are universal to all religions. Perhaps what is needed is a strong value system and not faith per say.

[humble_servant_us]

Br. Insaf,

The points which you have mentioned are the last steps in the struggle which one takes and not the initial steps.

Most of us due to family/social pressures are not bold enough to take steps in which you stop paying your dues to Kothar. If you do so the end result would be you get isolated from the society and perhaps most of Bohras would not like themselves getting detached from a Bohra society ( The social ethics in Bohras surely outstand many communities). Now as a compromise what these Bohras do is they pay their dues to kothar in best negotiable way, this they consider a club fee which they are paying to the bohra club.

In my personal opinion a reform movement in religion which is based on financial problems of the society may not give you success.

Most of the bohras are not aware about the knowledge of islam and its values , they have been kept away from quran and teachings of prophet(pbuh) and his household(pbut). They have been made ritualistic and materialistic. They have been taught islam in a fundamentally wrong way by the present Bohra clergy.

If we try (begining with our ownselves) to educate the people with truth of what they believe, we should make them understand what their own faith is all about. If you bring the truth in front of them in a logical convincable manner, falsehood will be surely visible to them.

Probably then there may be a time when a person values his principles and can have courage to say "NO" to the wrongs of Kothar.

[ghulam muhammed]

Br.Humble_servant_us,

There are certainly some valid points in your aguments. I agree to it.

[Danish]

I think MONEY is the main motive or core foundation of corrupt Dawoodi Bohra priestly regime in order to instigate, entice and enforce religious feasts, fables and festivals that are useless. Brother Insaf correctly pointed this core problem out. Financial resources of Burhanuddin and his cohorts MUST be reverted or dismantled for the efficacies of "religious righteousness" to follow through (speaking from religious point of view).

[abbas_mash]

Well I agree with Bro Insaf. Ortho Bohras has this fear of social boycott if they are not going to pay their dues.
As Bro Humble said we must educate them about religion. I would say they all are educated don't you agree with that but they are so much busy in their social life[Jaman, kadambosi, milad] that they hardly take out time to study the real Islam.

So as rightly said by Bro Insaf the power of kothar can be checkmated only if money supply to their accounts is cut-off.

The right thing would be to make these gullible bohras understand that they are wasting their hard earned money by giving them to kothar without any accountability.
The right thing would be to inform the concerned authorities of that countries where they go and collect large sum of Money that they are illegally transfering the collected amount. Though I agree they consult some of the best professional in transfering the illegal amount out of countries. But a insider can help in this matter.

This illegal collection is backbone of their EMPIRE and not the religion and that is to be attacked

[humble_servant_us]

Not paying them dues is a very difficult condition for a "ordinary" bohras. Bohras who are financially very strong can say No to kothar as when time comes they can get their work done on basis of money power. Poor/middle class bohra whose religious life revolves round mosque and jamatkhanas cannot dare to even think about this. They may be reluctant to pay but will still pay to enjoy the social benefits.

Things are not same as what it used to be during Udaipur times. Kothar has a tighter grip on the bohras now and with time they have properly strategised how to completely brain wash Bohras so that no Udaipur can be repeated. They are giving religious dozes in their capsule shells to keep Bohras happy. They are not allowed to know their true religion.

I agree that if you stop their dues it will end them but at this point i don;t think Bohras are ready to do this.

[feelgud]

Martin luther model of reform will not work among bohras due to difference in set up,problems and nature of opponents.

Mohammad's model of revolution has the capacity to change the situation.We have kothars officials behave like tribal leaders and its head ,eager to be worshipped as gods and the belief systems among bohras same as those pagans who think that so and so god has the power to change their worldly and afterlife conditions.

The starting point for this revolutin was nothing else but ''ya aiyohannas quloo la ilaha illallah min tuflehu'' .The leaders are normally intelligent men,they know not only its meaning but its implication as well.It simple meaning was to remove the hierarchy system among men.All are equal before one God.
The second step is to believe in this fact that their is no one in between man and God.It would be injustice on the part of God if He deprives its creature's right to access Him directly.

12:108 Say [O Prophet]: "This is my way: Resting upon conscious insight accessible to reason, I am calling [you all] unto God - I and they who follow me." And [say:] "Limitless is God in His glory; and I am not one of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him!"

[ghulam muhammed]

The security agency of the dai's fort knox was changed within a period of a couple of years wherein the earlier agency which was more liberal to some zaadas and helped them in sneaking away sacks of money was replaced. It is reported that the current agency is extremely vigil and is likely to be replaced by the earlier one. Lets watch whether the mansoos will allow that to happen.

I would request the new members on this forum to read the introductory article which is a first hand report and which will give an insight of the goings on within the sultan's palace.