Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

[znanwalla]

Najmi,

so you do admit that what you are writing is infact nonsense huh? thanks !...zn

[znanwalla]

Ismaili.net.....ok...so is there a dot in between? that is why you are so confused.....that is not an official ismaili site and so if you depend on this site for your understanding of ismailism then certainly we can now understand why you are so poor in your knowledge and then MF scooters inc compunds the complexities for you huh? ....is this how you guys gain your knowledge?....then why don't you also join the other so called ismaili "social" groups...you might learn something else there too....zn

[znanwalla]

if you like Bill Gates so much then why don't you go and lick his...... it might do you some good and rejevenate your retarded brains...zn

[anajmi]

so you do admit that what you are writing is infact nonsense huh? thanks !...zn
Najmi,

Absolutely. For the Ismailis, only nonsense works. Their Hazar Imam also does the same thing for the Ismaili idiots. HAHAHAHHHA

[Aarif]

AW4Z,

Wow mann!! you wrote such a long post in reply of mine. Looks like I have hit you very very hard below the belt. Bulls eye!! I must say...

From your long and nonsensical post it is very easy to conclude that you deserve Ismailism. Actually people like you are used to cult worshipping in one form or another. If it is not Brahma than it is Imam. If not Ali than it is Vishnu. I am glad that you are where you are suppose to be...

My new found faith is true Islam.

Looks like your sense of humor is still intact...

And just so that you know I do not listen to paedophile mulahs and I am sure that neither do br. MF and Anajmi. Its just that Ismailis have a flair for mixing up paedophile mulahs with Islam.

Again I do not believe that your Imam is a direct decendent of prophet (pbuh) and actually except Ismailis no one believes that.

PS: Next time try writing something meaningful so that we can debate. Otherwise I will have to refer you as ZN etall...

[Aarif]

if you like Bill Gates so much then why don't you go and lick his...... it might do you some good and rejevenate your retarded brains...

Now we know what the Ismailis do to rejuvenate their retarded brains...

[Aarif]

Also, show me how many governments and private institutions support Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc.'s charities, and then hop over to Aga Khan's Imamati Institutions. See if they can top him.
Now, I see a long night ahead of you. You are going to wikipidia or google to find out the charities of Gates, Buffet, etc. Don't worry, won't be too long because I have already been there. Took me 10 minutes.

AW4Z,

When you say 10 there is 0 after 1. I think you love these zeros mann... Who cares whether the goverments supports charities of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or not... The fact is with the kind of money they have donated they can support entire nations if they want... And again the big difference is your Imam is extorting money from you guys at the rate of 12.5% which is like collecting federal tax from Ismailis and than donating that money in charity whereas Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are self made men. They have worked hard throughout their life to achieve this success. But than if you would have understood all this you would not have joined the Ismaili band wagon. Ignorence is bliss my friend... Have fun...

[anajmi]

Aarif,

Now we know what the Ismailis do to rejuvenate their retarded brains...

That was a masterpiece.

[Aarif]

AW4Z,

Here is an article on Ismailism. It is NOT from Meherally, Mihir Bose or Ismaili.Net

http://www.sonic.net/yronwode/arcane-ar ... lism-1.php

[Muslim First]

From

http://www.sonic.net/yronwode/arcane-ar ... lism-1.php

The Imam of the Time is a descendent of Ali and has the sole
authority to interpret the Koran for the time and place.

He may be descendent but How can he become Imam when Ismail died before Imam Jafar.

Can somebody show me one Aya of Qur'an interpreted by Karim Agas Khan?

Imams do not fly, It is Stupid Murids give them wings.
.

[Muslim First]

XN wrote

The Aga Khan is one of the greatest men the world has produced, said Prof. Mahmoud Bey a spiritualist in Egypt,

How much Ismilis pay Mahmoud Bey to call "Aga Khan is one of the greatest men the world has produced"?

check out

" The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History"
http://www.dlmark.net/hundred.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4757863/The-1 ... in-History
http://www.amazon.com/100-Ranking-Influ ... 0806513500

Prophet SAW isw NO.1
http://www.jamaat.net/hart/thetop100.html

Hz. Umar is 52nd.

Aga Khan will not even make 10,000

.

[Aarif]

Aga Khan will not even make 10,000

Br. MF,

You are very generous I must say... I would start with 1 Billion.

[Muslim First]

AW4Zero

May be you want to read this:
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/umar.html

"O ye people I counsel you to read the Qur’an. Try to understand it and ponder over it. Imbibe the teachings of the Qur’an. Then practise what the Quran teaches. The Qur’an is not theoretical; it is a practical code of life. The Qur’an does not bring you the message of the Hereafter only; it is primarily intended to guide you in this life. Mold your life in accordance with the teachings of Islam for that is the way of your well being. By following any other way you will be inviting destruction.
"Fear Allah (The One True God), and whatever you want seek from Him. All men are equal. Do not flatter those in authority. Do not seek favors from others. By such acts you demean yourself. And remember that you will get only that is ordained for you, and no one can give you anything against the will of God. Then why seek things from others over which they have no control? Only supplicate God for He alone is the sovereign.

See you will not get anything by saying Ya Ali, or Ya MHI.
Only supplicate God for He alone is the sovereign.
.

[znanwalla]

MF...." Verily I make thee Imam for mankind " - Abraham said:.." And of my offspring".....Allah said " Yes! but my Covenant reaches NOT the unjust ones !

So overtime the wrong-doers have dis -appeared, as per the covenant Allah made with Abraham....and so what is the point to show us links from sites of such people whose ancestory never survived as per Allah's covennat to mankind ?

Why would Allah say that everyone will be called through their Imams? and is there any dictate in the Quran to read Wahabbi websites to gain knowledge of the Quran ?

zn

[znanwalla]

AHADITH ON THE KHAWARIJ WHICH THE SCHOLARS CONSIDER
TO APPLY TO THE WAHHABIS


These ahadith are cited in the Six Books of authentic traditions for the most part. They have been collated for the most part from the following two books written in refutation of the Wahhabi heresy:

a) al-Sayyid al-`Alawi ibn Ahmad ibn Hasan ibn `Abd Allah ibn `Alawi al-Haddad: Misbah al-anam wa jala' al-zalam fi radd shubah al-bid`i al-Najdi al-lati adalla biha al- `awamm ["The Lamp of Creatures and the Illumination of Darkness Concerning the Refutation of the Errors of the Innovator From Najd by Which He Had Misled the Common People"] published 1325H.

b) al-Sayyid Ahmad ibn Zayni al-Dahlan (d. 1304/1886). Mufti of Mecca and Shaykh al-Islam in the Hijaz region of the Ottoman state: Khulasat al-kalam fi bayan umara' al-balad al-haram ["The Summation Concerning the Leaders of the Holy Sanctuary"] (A History of the Wahhabi Fitna in Najd and the Hijaz) p. 234-236.


The Prophet said, Peace be upon him:


1. "They [Khawarij = those outside] transferred the Qur'anic verses meant to refer to unbelievers and made them refer to believers."

2. "What I most fear in my community is a man who interprets verses of the Qur'an out of context."

3. "The confusion [fitna] comes from there (and he pointed to the East = Najd in present-day Eastern Saudi Arabia)."

4. "A people that recite Qur'an will come out of the East, but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through the religion (of Islam) like the arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its course. Their sign is that they shave (their heads)."

5. "There will be in my Community a dissent and a faction, a people with excellent words and vile deeds. They will read Qur'an, but their faith does not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its original course. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation. The one who kills them or is killed by them is blessed. They summon to the book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever kills them is closer to Allah than they. Their sign is that they shave (their heads)."

6. "A people will come out at the end of times, immature, foolish and corrupt. They will hold the discourse of the best of creation and recite Qur'an, but it will not go past their throats. They will passes through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. If you find them, kill them, for verily whoever kills them will have his reward from Allah the Day of Judgment."

7. " They will recite Qur'an, but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its target. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation."

8. "The apex of disbelief is towards the East [Najd]. Pride and arrogance is found among the people of the horse and the camel [Bedouin Arabs]."

9. "Harshness and dryness of heart are in the East [Najd], and true belief is among the people of Hijaz."

10. "O Allah, bless our Syria and our Yemen!" They said: "Ya Rasulallah, and our Najd!" He didn't reply. He blessed Syria and Yemen twice more. They asked him to bless Najd twice more but he didn't reply. The third time he said: "There [in Najd] are the earthquakes and the dissensions, and through it will dawn the epoch [or horn] of shaytan."

11. A version has, "The two epochs [or horns] of shaytan." Some scholars have said that the dual referred to Musaylima the Arch-liar and to Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhab.

12. Some versions continue with the words: "And in it [Najd] is the consuming disease," i.e. death.

13. Some books of history mention the following version in the chapters devoted to the battles against the Banu Hanifa:

"At the end of times a man will come out of Musaylima's country and he will change the religion of Islam." Note: Most of the Khawarij were from the Najd area, from the tribes of Banu Hanifa, Banu Tamim, and Wa'il. Musaylima was from the Banu Hanifa, and Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab is from Tamim.

13a. Abu Bakr said concerning the Banu Hanifa (the tribe of Musaylima the Liar): "Their valley [Najd] will not cease to be a valley of dissensions until the end of time, and the religion will never recover from their liars until Judgment Day," and in another version: "Woe to al-Yamama without end."

13b. When `Ali killed the Khawarij, someone said: "Praise be to Allah Who has brought them down and relieved us from them." Ali replied: "Verily, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, some of them are still in the loins of men and they have not been born yet, and the last of them will fight on the side of the Antichrist."

14. "A people that recite the Qur'an will come out of the East, but it will not go past their throats. Every time a generation of them is cut down another one will come until the last one finds itself on the side of the Antichrist."

15. "There will be a huge confusion within my Community. There will not remain one house of the Arabs except that confusion will enter it. Those who die because of it are in the fire. The harm of the tongue in it will be greater than that of the sword."

16. "There will be a dissension (in which people will be) deaf, dumb and blind (this means they will be blind and not see the true issue nor listen to the voice of truth): whoever tries to control it, the dissension will control him."

17. "A shaytan will appear in Najd by whose dissension the Arabian island will quake."

18. On the authority of al-`Abbas: "A man will come out of the Wadi Abu Hanifah [in Najd] (whose appearance is) like a bull that lunges against its yoke. There will be much slaughter and killing in his time. They will make the possessions of Muslims lawful for themselves and for trade among themselves. They will make the lives of Muslims lawful for themselves and for boasting among themselves. In that confusion the despised and the lowly will attain positions of power. Their idle desires will keep company with them the way a dog keeps company with its master."

19. On the authority of Abu Sa`id al-Khudri: "Verily in the wake of this time of mine comes a people who will recite Qur'an but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will kill the Muslims and leave the idolaters alone. If I saw them, verily I would kill them the way the tribe of `Aad was killed [ i.e. all of them]."

20. "There will be towards the end of time a people who will say to you what neither you nor your forebears ever heard before. Beware of them lest they misguide you and bring you confusion."

21. "They will pass through Islam like an arrow passes through its quarry. Wherever you meet them, kill them!"

22. "They are the dogs of the people of Hell."

23. "They recite Qur'an and consider it in their favor but it is against them."

24. "There will be thirty dajjals (antichrists) after me, all claiming prophethood."

25. "Some people will be standing and calling at the gates of hell; whoever responds to their call, their will throw him into the Fire. They will be from our own people [i.e. Arabs] and will speak our language [Arabic]. Should you live to see them, stick to the main body (jama`a) of the Muslims and their leader. (If there is no main body and no leader,) isolate yourself from all these sects, even if you have to eat from the roots of trees until death overcomes you while you are in that state."

26. "Just before the Hour there will be many liars." Jabir ibn Samurah said: "Be on your guard against them."

27. "The Hour will not come until thirty dajjals appear, all of them lying about Allah and His Messenger."

28. "There will be Dajjals and liars among my Community. They will tell you something new, which neither you nor your forefathers have heard. Be on your guard against them and do not let them lead you astray."

29. "The time of the Dajjal will be years of confusion. People will believe a liar, and disbelieve one who tells the truth. People will distrust one who is trustworthy, and trust one who is treacherous; and the ruwaybidha will have a say." Someone asked: "Who are they?" He said: "Those who rebel against Allah and will have a say in general affairs."

30. "If the leadership is entrusted to those unfit for it, expect the Hour."

31. "You will see the barefoot ones, the naked, the destitute, the shepherds and camelherds take pride in building tall structures in abundance."

32. "One of the signs of the change of religion is the affectation of eloquence by the rabble and their betaking to palaces in big cities."

Jamil Effendi al-Zahawi's al-Fajr al-sadiq fi al-radd `ala munkiri al-tawassul wa al-khawariq

"The True Dawn: A Refutation of Those Who Deny The Validity of Using Means to God and the Miracles of Saints"

MF....rather than trying to give us lectures, you should read what the scholars are saying about you guys.....so what credibility do you have? none whatsoever to talk about islam !..

zn

[Muslim First]

.
So tell me how Ismail became Imam if he died before his father?

Remember there can be only one Imam at a time.
.

[znanwalla]

MF...haven't we answered this question before? we have ! go and read the earlier postings in this archives? infact I did ask you a simple and straightforward question.....if Imam Ismail had died in arabia then show us his grave or tomb or shrine in arabia? why is it in Syria and not arabia ? even the Bohras including the progessives know this for a fact that the shrine is not in arabia where Imam Jafar as Sadiq lived !

So why you have you not answered this question first ?

If there is only one Imam per era and so once the NASS is done on Ismail it is irrevocable and he is the Imam and mankind have no say in this issue as NASS is divinely ordained because you yourself confirm that there can be only one Imam per era and the Imam "in waiting" is always appointed logically during lifetime of the current Imam but remains "in waiting" or may even act as a PIR in the interim or as a Deputy until the appropriate time which is ordained, as far as I believe or is this an unreasonable conclusion? if so then provide skilled rebut...but don't show me your lack of knowledge and bias.

Have you read history properly or are you simply peddling theories based on ill conceived notions? Read the Sh'ia scriptures and there is enough evidence to show that NASS was given to Imam Ismail and so after him it can only go to his own son and not move sideways - nor do people have any say in this issue.....kindly read the Doctrine of Imamat in a Definitive Form by Imam Jafar as Sadiq !

Imam Jafar as Sadiq has clarified abundantly all the principles which govern Imamat and how Imams are appointed?

Please do not come and ask us repeat questions and don't show us your ignorance as always and also i have asked you this question...if you are not a Sh'ia and claim you are a Wahabbi and do not accept Imamat, what business or concern all this is to you? Imamat affects Sh'ias and so let the Sh'ias worry about this issue....why does it bother you as much? any special reason?

If there is another Sh'ia who wants to debate then we will do so but I do not see the purpose of talking this issue with a wahhabi like you who frankly has nothing to do with our Imamat or for that matter with any Sh'ia Imamat...simply put, it is none of your business !

The time of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq and Imam Isma‘il ibn Ja’far’s Imamah was a period of horrific oppression against the family of the Prophet, as well as a time of great social and political upheaval. Sayyed Hossein Nasr writes...

The question of the successor to the Imam (Jafar Sadik) having been made particularly difficult by the fact that the Abbasid caliph al-Mansur had decided to scourge to death whoever was to be chosen officially by the Imam as his successor thereby hoping to put an end to the Shiite movement (Nasr Ideals 165-166)

In any case, the idea that Imam as-Sadiq would have worked to protect the future Imam from the authorities is not as far fetched as supposing or saying that the "hidden" Imam has been hiding for the past ,1000 plus years without any representatives, abandoning his followers to nothing but guesswork and speculation.

It is absurd to think that Imam Ja’far knowing that the Light of Allah was made manifest in his son Imam Musa, but nonetheless begged Allah to switch the Imamah to his son Isma’il.

Clearly, no person would believe that the Imam would be so foolish as to beg Allah to switch the Imamah from one person to another; every Shi’a believes that the Imam is an Imam from birth and so there is no way of “changing it.”

The great French philosopher and Orientalist, Henry Corbin, writes about the light of the Imam

As soon as he is “invested” (nass), the young Imam becomes the support of the Temple of Light. His Imamah or “divinity” is the corpus mysticum [the mystical body] composed of all the Forms of light of his disciples (Corbin History 92)

Yet some of these Sh'ia hadiths state that it was precisely such a “switch” that Imam Ja’far was seeking from Allah; but we know that the luminous nature of the Imam is something ontological rather than political and even Imam Jafas as Sadiq confirms this aspect.

The Imam does not merely appoint a successor, as a king might; rather he announces who his successor will be, he informs the people who will bear the Light of Imamah after him.

The fact that so many narrations are based upon the spurious idea that Imam as-Sadiq begged Allah to make Isma’il the Imam, but Allah refused and chose to give the Imamah to Imam Musa instead, casts a shadow upon all their hadiths on the subject.

zn

[anajmi]

Too much junk to go through, so I skipped it. After all, we all know it is fabrications. HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

[znanwalla]

najma,

what else can retarded obsessionist say? when they have no answers this is what they do.....try and circumvent it.....but people are not fools either.....so keep on riding your MF scooters and make sure you sit in front so that MF can have some fun....zn

[jawanmardan]

Aarif;

Tithes are voluntary, not forced, or cohersed thats a tired line, the obsession with money within my community is misplaced.

The Bill and Melinda Foundation are partners of the AKDN, and have been major contributers to AKDN projects, Googles drawn out program to develop a Foundation was partially so that it could develop an innovative approach to development aid, CEO Shmidt chose the AKDN as a leading partner to learn the know how. Simply take a masters degree in International development and you will find the AKDN remains a textbook standard for the Philanthrocapitalist approach.

The Agha Khan is not on the same wealth scale as Bill Gates, or Warren buffet, his not even the richest Isma'ili by a long shot, that doesn't matter though because more importantly our jamaati system, and the development agencies he has set up.

Isma'ilism is as much if not more so about the innovative intellectual sharing of ideas and skills as giving money. And remember that Jamaati projects vastly out-spend the Aga Khans personal fortune every year without taking into account the AKDN or the Aga Khan Foundation, in fact if the Imam took 10% per year he could easily double his fortune in a matter of years, yet his personal fortune has remained pretty much the same since 1999.

You need to meet more Isma'ili and learn more about us, and what we are about rather than the perpetuation of myths and stereotypes, thats just lazy.

[Africawala0000]

MF,

So tell me how Ismail became Imam if he died before his father?

Remember there can be only one Imam at a time.

Somebody has explained this in detail in this forum. Go through the forum. Or ask the Admin. We are not here to educated the Jahaliyas who cannot learn on their own.

[anajmi]

Africawala,

You are not good enough to educate anybody. The only word in your vocabulary is jahiliya. Maybe that is all your Imam has taught you from Pakistan.

[Africawala0000]

Anajmi,

Africawala,

You are not good enough to educate anybody. The only word in your vocabulary is jahiliya. Maybe that is all your Imam has taught you from Pakistan.

Sounds like you, Jahaliya, got hurt under your belt again. I may not be good enough to educate anybody, but I am good at exposing your ignorance. Look how many eggs I have smashed into you and your Trinity!

[anajmi]

Not sure how you exposed my ignorance without a shred of evidence. All you said was go look at this, go search for this, go find this. That is what the Imam teaches you morons. He told you to go find Pooya Ali's translation didn't he? What happened to his own translation? Fooled you didn't he???

[znanwalla]

Naju.....why have you not been able to explain and answer so many of our questions? hmm...so now you are saying our Imam is from Pakistan huh? wonderful ! at least you are contradicting your pals who sang a different tune before...how nice ? Thank you !

-------Original Message-------

Subject: The Aga Khan: faith and action


This excellent article goes a long way to explain what the Aga Khan is all about
The Aga Khan: faith and action


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... mment/home

[anajmi]

I am not saying your Imam is from Pakistan. I am saying your Imam is from fantasy land. HAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHA

ADRIENNE CLARKSON seems to be a charlatan who probably got fooled by Aga Khan and his playboy ways. HAHAHAHAHHA

[anajmi]

The Koran tells us that mankind is a "single soul created by a single Creator"

Which quran? The hidden quran? Can't be validated, hence, it could be a lie.

[znanwalla]

The Quran of God as revealed to Muhamad and as given to his legitimate and rightful successors which ofcourse I have suitably proved time and agin, you don't have.....and that is why you have not been able to answer most of our questions.....so you can keep on reading amazon and wikiepedia books whilst we hold safely the TWO precious and weighty things which our beloved Prophet left for us....so keep on waving the MF scooter flags...watch your veggies in black mourning perpetually - and have suxual pleasure with children as allowed by your mullahs and keep mistresses which the prophet never did and recite "namaz" which is fire worshipping as Allah only mentions salat and not namaz.....and wave your incomplete Pillars at the world as without ADL you are simply bankrupt morally and religiously....and then no Quran ! wow ! all a big screw up !.....zn

[anajmi]

We don't have the hidden quran because it is hidden. You proved time and again that I don't have the hidden quran? Obviously I don't have it. That is why it is hidden, you moron. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA

[znanwalla]

That is because the Quran of God is hiiden from the enemies of the Prophet and his religion ! that is why God has given you the black to keep on mourning !...zn