Najma,
You must be kidding ! really ! huh? or maybe you don't know our Pillars of faith, unlike yours ours are complete and includes ADL and Imamat !
The verse (36:12) reveals that God has encompassed everything – intellectual, spiritual and physical – in the light of the most noble Imam.
Therefore, according to the principles of Qur'anic wisdom, it is clear that all subjects are contained in the subject of Imâmat and all words in the word Imâm. [Source: Recognition of Imam (Imâm – Shinâsi) Part I & II]
Ta'wil of word 'Itâ'ah' (Obedience to God, the Prophet and the Imam):
"The holy Prophet said to Hazrat Ali: "He who obeys me, indeed obeys Allah and he who disobeys me, indeed disobeys Allah and he who obeys you, indeed obeys me and he who disobeys you, indeed disobeys me." (al-Mustradrak, III, 121). This Hadith is an exegesis of verse (4:59) about obedience." [Source: Tawil 76: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Uli'l-amr' (The custodians of the Divine commands, the true Imams):
"Verse (4:59) says: "O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and the ulu'l-amr from amongst you." That is, in addition to Allah and the Prophet, obedience to the Imam from the progeny of the Prophet, whose Imamat is established from the Qur'an and Hadith, is obligatory. Contrary to this, world kings and rulers cannot be the ulu'l-amr, nor is any example of them found in the age of Prophethood, the ideal age of Islam.
In the same surah in verse (4:54) there is mention of giving of the Book, the wisdom and a great kingdom to the Progeny of Ibrahim and here, according to the context of the subject, by progeny of Ibrahim are meant to be Muhammad (s.a.s.) and his progeny." [Source: Tawil 133: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Imâm' (Guide):
"The following hadith is about the virtues of the Qur'an: "Indeed, everything has a heart and the heart of the Qur'an is Yâ-Sin (Surah 36)" (Trimidhi, V, 162).
One main reason for this title of Yâ-Sin is that the Treasure of the treasures of God is mentioned in it, which is: "And We have encompassed everything in the manifest Imam." (36:12). That is, God enfolds the universe in the living and present Imam and also unfolds it from him." [Source: Tawil 106: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Kullu shay'in' (Everything, all things):
The magnificent and unique principle which is the treasure of its heart cannot be praised by us human beings and that universal principle full of quintessence (i.e., the pure, highly concentrated essence) of wisdom is: "And We have encompassed everything in a manifest Imam." (36:12). That is, all spiritual and intellectual subtle things of the kingdom of God can be found gathered and enfolded in the manifest Imam, provided someone recognizes himself or herself." [Source: Tawil 732: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Ta'wil of word 'Ayat' (The luminous personality of the Imam in which all signs are encompassed):
"Mawlâ Ali has said: "Anâ âyâtu'llâhi wa aminu'llâh, i.e. I am Allah's signs and I am the trustworthy of Allah." (Kawkab, p.208). Âyât in the sense of the signs of Divine power or miracles, are in four places: (i) The higher world, (ii) the wise Qur'ân, (iii) the external universe and (iv) the personal world, but according to the Qur'ân (36:12) all these âyât (signs) are encompassed in the light of the Imâm-i Mubin. That is, his light is the higher world, he is the speaking Qur'ân, the quintessence of the universe and a luminious personal world in true sense." [Source: Tawil 10: A Thousand Wisdoms]
Now Najmi, anyone who makes distinctions amongst the progeny of the Prophet has fallen into misguidance as after Ali, it was Ali and after him it was still Ali and upto the end it will be Ali...as we follow the Nur E Imamah (Rope of Allah)....you are talking of individuals here....anyone who follows the physical part is an idol worshipper like you and others....Islam prohibits idol worshipping but yet you look at the Imams in a physical context only....we don't !
I told you that we are more knowledgeable than you and you guys can't even spell Gnosis correctly...leave aside knowing it...zn
Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Your interpretations are, simply put, fairy tales. They have no basis in the Arabic language. I follow the knowledgeable amongst us. So I am not going against the quran. Even Aga Khan says follow the quran and the sunnah of the prophet. So, that is what I am doing. You however are lost, looking for a non-existing quran. I have the quran and the sunnah. You simply have fabrications. That is why you worship Hazrat Ali. Hazrat Ali will be sad on the day of judgement as his followers have made him a partner with Allah. Something that Allah despises. Allah despises the likes of you.
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
The Imam says to follow the Quran ! he has never said to follow anything other than the Quran ! now if you don't understand this simple directive then it means you are ignorant....I have always said that the Book of Allah is the Quran....now you are trying to convince us to follow what was created or 'assembled" by the great Hadrat for you guys....that is not the Quran....we are expected to follow the Quran ! the Al-KItab ! the Perspicous Book of Allah which the Prophet had left with Ali...not with the caliphs who then chose to assemble a like thereof and call it the Book of God as they were in power and so they fell into misguidance just like you all have....zn
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Najmi,
You are not even able to convince us that you follow the Sunnah of the Prophet ! I have raised many questions and you haven't answered.....if you follow the Sunnah then why is your "Namaz" not the same ? or did the Prophet give different sunnah to different sects?
How many ahadith or the traditions of the H. Prophet (S) have you come across in the ”Sahihs” quoted by any of these personalities [who were actually the companions of the H. Prophet (S)]? Kindly name them for us !
Is your "sharia" uniform across the board? if not why not? are are there different sets of divine laws for different sects?
The four schools of thought (i.e. Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali and Shafe’i) among the Ahlul Sunnah came into existence well over a century after the death of the H. Prophet (S). The question is, to which school of thought did the Khulafa-e-Rashideen belong? Can you explain?
Did the mere fact that their election i.e. of the caliphs and their nomination and selection by a few individuals automatically make them Mujtahids? If this is the case, then why didn’t the other khalifas also become Mujtahids or receive equal status ?
Imam Abdul Alim Musa of Masjid al-Islam (Washington, DC) has received much criticism for his outspoken lectures on the Ahlul Bayt (as).
This lecture by far is most amazing and compelling stories of a convert who was lied to and deceived by the "imams" that brought him to Islam in prison. The books they gave to him, he says, delibrately had mistranslations so to mask the importance of the Ahlul Bayt (as); instead of "People of the House" Ahlul Bayt (as) was translated as "followers of the Prophet."
It wasn't till much later did Imam Musa know the TRUE meaning of Durood Shareef. He continues by revealing hadith after hadith about the importance of loving the Ahlul Bayt from Sunni sources.
He tells the congregation not to get mad at him, get mad at the scribes who write down the hadiths. "Why aren't there any conferences on the Ahlul Bayt (as)?" he asks...
How and from where did the four Ahlul Sunnah Imams gain their knowledge, information and the interpretation of the Holy Qur’an and the ahadith of the H. Prophet (S) to derive to their authority to give fatawas and rulings on religious matters? Kindly explain to us.
It must be noted that none of these four Imams were present during the time of the H. Prophet (S), nor had anyone of them met any of the Sahaba or the Companion of the H. Prophet (S).
Who can tell you about a person more than one’s own immediate family?
So Is such attitude of yours towards the Ahlul-Bayt accidental or premeditated ?
zn
You are not even able to convince us that you follow the Sunnah of the Prophet ! I have raised many questions and you haven't answered.....if you follow the Sunnah then why is your "Namaz" not the same ? or did the Prophet give different sunnah to different sects?
How many ahadith or the traditions of the H. Prophet (S) have you come across in the ”Sahihs” quoted by any of these personalities [who were actually the companions of the H. Prophet (S)]? Kindly name them for us !
Is your "sharia" uniform across the board? if not why not? are are there different sets of divine laws for different sects?
The four schools of thought (i.e. Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali and Shafe’i) among the Ahlul Sunnah came into existence well over a century after the death of the H. Prophet (S). The question is, to which school of thought did the Khulafa-e-Rashideen belong? Can you explain?
Did the mere fact that their election i.e. of the caliphs and their nomination and selection by a few individuals automatically make them Mujtahids? If this is the case, then why didn’t the other khalifas also become Mujtahids or receive equal status ?
Imam Abdul Alim Musa of Masjid al-Islam (Washington, DC) has received much criticism for his outspoken lectures on the Ahlul Bayt (as).
This lecture by far is most amazing and compelling stories of a convert who was lied to and deceived by the "imams" that brought him to Islam in prison. The books they gave to him, he says, delibrately had mistranslations so to mask the importance of the Ahlul Bayt (as); instead of "People of the House" Ahlul Bayt (as) was translated as "followers of the Prophet."
It wasn't till much later did Imam Musa know the TRUE meaning of Durood Shareef. He continues by revealing hadith after hadith about the importance of loving the Ahlul Bayt from Sunni sources.
He tells the congregation not to get mad at him, get mad at the scribes who write down the hadiths. "Why aren't there any conferences on the Ahlul Bayt (as)?" he asks...
How and from where did the four Ahlul Sunnah Imams gain their knowledge, information and the interpretation of the Holy Qur’an and the ahadith of the H. Prophet (S) to derive to their authority to give fatawas and rulings on religious matters? Kindly explain to us.
It must be noted that none of these four Imams were present during the time of the H. Prophet (S), nor had anyone of them met any of the Sahaba or the Companion of the H. Prophet (S).
Who can tell you about a person more than one’s own immediate family?
So Is such attitude of yours towards the Ahlul-Bayt accidental or premeditated ?
zn
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Africawala0000
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Can you name a few?I follow the knowledgeable amongst us.
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Africawala0000
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
MF,
Re: The links you had produced on another thread: I don't remember well, where you produced them as I was just going through your ignorant posts. As usual I do not have the time you guys have. So please do me a favour.
I check out everything I read from you, well, most of the time. I opened the first link about the influential men. You said Umar was No. 52 (Dai No. 52) but he was not there (may be he was on other), anyways, I had not gotten to that link, so I did not see Umar's name. Can you please repost them. I would like to know who the influential men are?
By the way, the very first link I opened, I saw Hitler's name on the list. So now, I know who influences your cult! I am so glad my Imam was not on that list.
I had like to know how many Hitlers were in the other lists.
Re: The links you had produced on another thread: I don't remember well, where you produced them as I was just going through your ignorant posts. As usual I do not have the time you guys have. So please do me a favour.
I check out everything I read from you, well, most of the time. I opened the first link about the influential men. You said Umar was No. 52 (Dai No. 52) but he was not there (may be he was on other), anyways, I had not gotten to that link, so I did not see Umar's name. Can you please repost them. I would like to know who the influential men are?
By the way, the very first link I opened, I saw Hitler's name on the list. So now, I know who influences your cult! I am so glad my Imam was not on that list.
I had like to know how many Hitlers were in the other lists.
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Africawala,
I am not going to do your research for you. Go search Google.
znan,
I am not going to do your research for you. Go search Google.
znan,
I don't need to convince you of anything. Our Namaz is the same as that of the prophet. The prophet prayed in different ways. The beauty of the true followers of the prophet is that they have preserved every way in which the prophet prayed namaz. The Ismailis have given up all of them. Your Imam has come into existence 14 centuries after the prophet, so, relatively speaking, he is far more unreliable. And as I told you, sunnis love the ahlul bayt. The ahlul bayt is the family of the prophet. Aga Khan is not the ahlul bayt.You are not even able to convince us that you follow the Sunnah of the Prophet
Then you don't even know what your own Imam says.The Imam says to follow the Quran ! he has never said to follow anything other than the Quran
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
The speech by Omar was really mind blowing. He said something like Allah appointed him the leader and all the other stuff that he said in his speech, one ought to ask him if he actually applied all that to himself. Ulta chor kotwal ko dantayAfricawala0000 wrote:MF,
Re: The links you had produced on another thread: I don't remember well, where you produced them as I was just going through your ignorant posts. As usual I do not have the time you guys have. So please do me a favour.
I check out everything I read from you, well, most of the time. I opened the first link about the influential men. You said Umar was No. 52 (Dai No. 52) but he was not there (may be he was on other), anyways, I had not gotten to that link, so I did not see Umar's name. Can you please repost them. I would like to know who the influential men are?
By the way, the very first link I opened, I saw Hitler's name on the list. So now, I know who influences your cult! I am so glad my Imam was not on that list.
I had like to know how many Hitlers were in the other lists.
I would love for MF to repost it here as I cant find it either. May be it was on the Bohras and Reform forum.Prophet Mohammad was No. 1 on the list. If we were to ask his opinion, what do you guys think the prophet would say? We should feel good that this Hart guy chose our Prophet over anyone "he thought" was influential in history. Omar being 52nd on the list would be disappointing for him. He would have killed millions to be No.2
Our Imam's goal is not to be the topmost influential guy, he cares less! I remember one magazine called him "The quiet Prince of Islam". He would leave a lagacy behind, not the ranking on some chart!Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Yeah, like the previous Ismaili Imams. Does anyone even know their names outside the jamatkhana?He would leave a lagacy behind,
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
"...I don't need to convince you of anything. Our Namaz is the same as that of the prophet. The prophet prayed in different ways. The beauty of the true followers of the prophet is that they have preserved every way in which the prophet prayed namaz...."
So Najmi what you are saying to us that even the prophet prayed in many different ways....but then why are you praying in just one way? and if others pray differently than you what is the objection when you yourself admit that even the Prophet prayed in many different ways ?....are you confused?
Insertion of the formula "Prayer is better that sleep" in the call to the dawn prayer , the more correct report is that it is Bilal who first inserted the formula in the call to the dawn prayer and the Prophet retained it.
Now why are you saying it was Umar who inserted this phrase in the Fajr adhan.
Ordaining the holding of tarawih prayers in congregation, Umar did this?...right? Not the Prophet !
Three divorces pronounced at one session declared binding - Umar did this ! Not the prophet !
Provision of the punishment for drunkenness with eighty stripes - show me if this is a Prophet's tradition?
Levy of zakât on horses of merchandise...again Umar's innovation !
Levy of zakât on the Christians of Bani Taghlab in lieu of jizya
Consensus of opinion on four takbîrs in funeral prayers....not from the prophet's time.
Organization of sermons in mosques...Umar did this also.
Prohibition of the mention of women’s names in lyric poems although the custom was very ancient in Arabia.Imposition of customs duties.Taxation of the produce of the sea and appointment of officials for its collection.Use of the whip....the great Hadrat did all this...so then are you following Umar's tradition or the prophet's tradition?
zn
So Najmi what you are saying to us that even the prophet prayed in many different ways....but then why are you praying in just one way? and if others pray differently than you what is the objection when you yourself admit that even the Prophet prayed in many different ways ?....are you confused?
Insertion of the formula "Prayer is better that sleep" in the call to the dawn prayer , the more correct report is that it is Bilal who first inserted the formula in the call to the dawn prayer and the Prophet retained it.
Now why are you saying it was Umar who inserted this phrase in the Fajr adhan.
Ordaining the holding of tarawih prayers in congregation, Umar did this?...right? Not the Prophet !
Three divorces pronounced at one session declared binding - Umar did this ! Not the prophet !
Provision of the punishment for drunkenness with eighty stripes - show me if this is a Prophet's tradition?
Levy of zakât on horses of merchandise...again Umar's innovation !
Levy of zakât on the Christians of Bani Taghlab in lieu of jizya
Consensus of opinion on four takbîrs in funeral prayers....not from the prophet's time.
Organization of sermons in mosques...Umar did this also.
Prohibition of the mention of women’s names in lyric poems although the custom was very ancient in Arabia.Imposition of customs duties.Taxation of the produce of the sea and appointment of officials for its collection.Use of the whip....the great Hadrat did all this...so then are you following Umar's tradition or the prophet's tradition?
zn
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Najmi,
does anyone have to know the names of our Imams outside our own Jamat? No ! It is none of their business as they should follow their own caliphs and Mullahs...it is best for them as this is their legacy....ours is to hold fast to the TWO precious things OUR Prophet left behind for us.....now why would I not know what our Imam says?....what you have is NOT the Quran ! Imam says follow the Quran....he nevers aid to follow Umar's book or the interpolations of Uthman?....how much plain speaking can I do?....zn
does anyone have to know the names of our Imams outside our own Jamat? No ! It is none of their business as they should follow their own caliphs and Mullahs...it is best for them as this is their legacy....ours is to hold fast to the TWO precious things OUR Prophet left behind for us.....now why would I not know what our Imam says?....what you have is NOT the Quran ! Imam says follow the Quran....he nevers aid to follow Umar's book or the interpolations of Uthman?....how much plain speaking can I do?....zn
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
No. Which is a good thing. Let us keep this sickness within the Ismaili community only. You keep the ginans, just keep giving your money to those that need it. Let pardesi know. He's been dreaming about the Imams leaving a legacy. Unless you guys don't know what "legacy" means.does anyone have to know the names of our Imams outside our own Jamat?
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Who told you I pray in only one way? I have no problem in praying in every way the prophet prayed. I am not an Ismaili. I have no problem if you pray in anyway the prophet prayed. The prophet did not sing ginans and he didn't pray as the Ismailis prayed. Ismailis have invented their own prayers. Which is why they have forsaken the prophet and the ahlul bayt and have instead started worshipping a fake Imam.but then why are you praying in just one way?
Ordaining the holding of tarawih prayers in congregation, Umar did this?...right? Not the Prophet !
This has not replaced the prophet's prayer but is an additional prayer. The Ismailis have gotten rid of the prophet's prayer.
This is actually in the quran. Go look for it. Interpretations differ.Three divorces pronounced at one session declared binding - Umar did this ! Not the prophet !
This is not against any ayah of the quran or any tradition of the prophet.Provision of the punishment for drunkenness with eighty stripes - show me if this is a Prophet's tradition?
This is not against any ayah of the quran or any tradition of the prophet.Levy of zakât on horses of merchandise...again Umar's innovation !
Need authentic references.Levy of zakât on the Christians of Bani Taghlab in lieu of jizya
Not against the quran and not against the sunnah of the prophet.Consensus of opinion on four takbîrs in funeral prayers....not from the prophet's time.
Lack of Ismaili knowledge about Islam. Not against the quran or the sunnah of the prophet.Organization of sermons in mosques...Umar did this also.
If any of Hazrat Umar's tradition is against the quran or the sunnah of the prophet, then any muslim will reject that tradition. Show me one tradition which is against the quran or the sunnah of the prophet.
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
You may be right. Prophet Mohammad was hardly heard of outside the Arabia, Persia and parts of North Africa, yet the groundwork he laid down in his lifetime bore fruits for his ummah hundreds of years later and made him today the most influential. That is what is required of us for our future generations to stand the test of time. Not very many of our Imams were well known among the uninformed masses. Ignorance may have been one reason. Persecution definitely was another because of which a good number of our Imams had to live a low profile life. But whenever they were in the limelight they have worked for the improvement of human society, in particular the muslim society. For instance the first five, Imam Ali, Hussain, Zainul Abideen, Mohammad Baqir and Jaffar Sadiq were all legends in their own way. Next five had to live in concealment from public view due to ruthless Abbassid persecution. No one denies this. The next eight from Mohammad Al-Mahdi to Al-Mustansir billah are well know to the world - They ruled as Fatimid caliphs and their contribution to learning, building, humanity and pluralism and culturalism is an example in its own. After that we had a long period of peace and quiet in northern Iran during which considerable dawah work was done in the greater Indian subcontinent. The next Imam, the Aga Khan III, was well known to the world and the muslims of India especially for his service to muslim ummah and can not be denied his rightful place among the most respected muslim leaders we have ever seen. No need to go into detail about his work - your own scholars, leaders and ulema speak highly of him. And now the current Imam, the Aga Khan IV. No matter what few illiterate, misguided, jealous and ignorant fools say about him he continues to do his work. The work which your billionaire oilmen and kings don't want to do, he is doing. Imagine if all these kings and leaders sitting on ummah's wealth and making it their personal property did just a little for the ummah and imagine if all muslims honestly paid their due share of Zakat, Ushr/Khums, Khairat, Sadqaat and in turn some leader used them in the right projects, muslims would be among the most educated, civil and tolarent in this world. Islam would have had a totally different image than what it is now. There is still hope.anajmi wrote:Yeah, like the previous Ismaili Imams. Does anyone even know their names outside the jamatkhana?He would leave a lagacy behind,
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Najmi,
It is the other way around....."Allah guides unto HIS Noor whomsoever HE Wills...." and so the sick at heart have been excluded ! how unfortunate....."verily WE have shown him the way whether he be grateful or disbelieving..."
Ibn Abdul Wahhab issued declarations (fatwa) that branded
every Muslim in Arabia who was in dispute with the Ibn Saud
family a Kafir through Bida'a. Yet for him to declare Islamic
the hereditary rule of KINGS (Malik) from Ibn Saud family was
the biggest Bidaa around in Arabia. He announced in his infamous
fatwa that the ruling of Arabia should be a hereditary right of the
sons of Saud (who by the way was related to him through marriage of
his daughter).
zn
It is the other way around....."Allah guides unto HIS Noor whomsoever HE Wills...." and so the sick at heart have been excluded ! how unfortunate....."verily WE have shown him the way whether he be grateful or disbelieving..."
Ibn Abdul Wahhab issued declarations (fatwa) that branded
every Muslim in Arabia who was in dispute with the Ibn Saud
family a Kafir through Bida'a. Yet for him to declare Islamic
the hereditary rule of KINGS (Malik) from Ibn Saud family was
the biggest Bidaa around in Arabia. He announced in his infamous
fatwa that the ruling of Arabia should be a hereditary right of the
sons of Saud (who by the way was related to him through marriage of
his daughter).
zn
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Even when the prophet did not do innovations, how can you say Umar's innovation were legitimate?...no basis for your argument pal...WHO AUTHORISED UMAR TO INTRODUCE THESE INNOVATIONS IN ISLAM? THE RELIGION OF ISLAM WAS ALREADY COMPLETED BY ALLAH HIMSELF BY THE TIME THE HOLY PROPHET (peace and blessings be upon him and his immaculate progeny) PARTED THIS WORLD.
33:36 “IT IS NOT FOR TRUE BELIEVERS - MEN OR WOMEN - TO TAKE THEIR CHOICE IN THEIR AFFAIRS IF ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE DECREE OTHERWISE. HE THAT DISOBEYS ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE STRAYS FAR INDEED.”
59:8 “WHATEVER THE PROPHET GIVES YOU, ACCEPT IT AND WHATEVER HE FORBIDS YOU FORBEAR IT.”...Umar went against the prophet and thus disobeyed even Allah !
Even the most noble Messenger of Allah has no authority to innovate anything in matter of religion.
33:36 “IT IS NOT FOR TRUE BELIEVERS - MEN OR WOMEN - TO TAKE THEIR CHOICE IN THEIR AFFAIRS IF ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE DECREE OTHERWISE. HE THAT DISOBEYS ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE STRAYS FAR INDEED.”
59:8 “WHATEVER THE PROPHET GIVES YOU, ACCEPT IT AND WHATEVER HE FORBIDS YOU FORBEAR IT.”...Umar went against the prophet and thus disobeyed even Allah !
Even the most noble Messenger of Allah has no authority to innovate anything in matter of religion.
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
[quote]Not against the quran or the sunnah of the prophet[/quoe]
Now if the prophet himself did not do something and your HERO starts taking the initiative to introduce those things into the religion not going against the Sunnah of the Prophet? Did he have any religious authority? I guess he heard someone that the Prophet said if there were any other prophet to come after him it would have been Umar and therefore felt authorized to add things to Allah's religion. Now, could the Prophet have said such a thing? I doubt it! Unauthorized innovations are not necessarily against the Quran or Sunnah but I believe this is the reason they are called bidah because they are not coming from Allah or the Prophet and by extension the Ahle Bayt. Lots of things are not against Quran and Sunnah but the bigger issue is were they sanctioned by Quran and Sunnah?
Now if the prophet himself did not do something and your HERO starts taking the initiative to introduce those things into the religion not going against the Sunnah of the Prophet? Did he have any religious authority? I guess he heard someone that the Prophet said if there were any other prophet to come after him it would have been Umar and therefore felt authorized to add things to Allah's religion. Now, could the Prophet have said such a thing? I doubt it! Unauthorized innovations are not necessarily against the Quran or Sunnah but I believe this is the reason they are called bidah because they are not coming from Allah or the Prophet and by extension the Ahle Bayt. Lots of things are not against Quran and Sunnah but the bigger issue is were they sanctioned by Quran and Sunnah?
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
So, if the Messenger of Allah through whom the Shariah was revealed could not and would not alter anything, how could his so called “Rightful Successor” - the great Hadrat interfere and introduce bida’h? What sort of Muslims are we to accept such a person as a Muslim in the first place, let alone a successor of the holy Prophet (pbuhf)?
Didn’t the holy Prophet (pbuhf) say, “whatever I Muhammad has made halal will remain halal up to the Day of Judgement and whatever I Muhammad has made haram will remain haram up to the Day of Judgement”?
If so, then on whose authority are we Muslims following the innovations and bid’ats of Umar?
zn
Didn’t the holy Prophet (pbuhf) say, “whatever I Muhammad has made halal will remain halal up to the Day of Judgement and whatever I Muhammad has made haram will remain haram up to the Day of Judgement”?
If so, then on whose authority are we Muslims following the innovations and bid’ats of Umar?
zn
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Psrdesi Bhai
AW4zero
I have seen people "dimmer then door nail" but you my friend can out rank them by 4 zeros. "Are Yaar Akal Bikti thi to kya Chalni lekar kharid ne gaya thaa kya?"
You can go to library and check out "Hart, Michael H. 1992. The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential your Persons in History , Revised and Updated for the Nineties. New York: Citadel Press Book.
Link is here Is Prophet referred to as 'noor' page 14 http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=390
Hz Umar ibn al-Khattab is ranked between Pope Urbana II and Ashoka. 52 is my count. I could be wrong. "Most influential" does not mean all positive. Hitler, Napoleon Bonaparte etc. may be evil but they influenced the history of mankind. You have to read original book to find out Michael Hart's reasoning for ranking.
Your "Empty Suit" MHI will not achieve any ranking. Yes he is right up there with other "Charlatan" like Burhnuddin, Sai Baba and many other who prey on gullible people selling Abe-Shifa and Juro.
Take care both of you. I would not excersie that Mush up there in your head too much.
.
Remember Ismail died before Jafar so rest of them are "empty suits". Unless you produce concrete proof that Ismail outlived Jafar, all the discussion is useless.Imam Ali, Hussain, Zainul Abideen, Mohammad Baqir and Jaffar Sadiq were all legends in their own way.
AW4zero
I have seen people "dimmer then door nail" but you my friend can out rank them by 4 zeros. "Are Yaar Akal Bikti thi to kya Chalni lekar kharid ne gaya thaa kya?"
You can go to library and check out "Hart, Michael H. 1992. The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential your Persons in History , Revised and Updated for the Nineties. New York: Citadel Press Book.
Link is here Is Prophet referred to as 'noor' page 14 http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=390
Hz Umar ibn al-Khattab is ranked between Pope Urbana II and Ashoka. 52 is my count. I could be wrong. "Most influential" does not mean all positive. Hitler, Napoleon Bonaparte etc. may be evil but they influenced the history of mankind. You have to read original book to find out Michael Hart's reasoning for ranking.
Your "Empty Suit" MHI will not achieve any ranking. Yes he is right up there with other "Charlatan" like Burhnuddin, Sai Baba and many other who prey on gullible people selling Abe-Shifa and Juro.
Take care both of you. I would not excersie that Mush up there in your head too much.
.
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
So then the two of you agree that innovations are haraam in Islam and from your posts above I also gather that I was correct when I said that the Ismailis have abolished the form of "namaz" or "salah" practiced by the prophet. Good.
Now coming to taraweeh.Remember, Hazrat Ali during his rule did not abolish the practice of taraweeh. Taraweeh is nothing but a nightly prayer. What applies to nightly prayer (Qiyamul Layl) applies to Taraweeh. In Qiyamul Layl there is not a set number of Raka'at that we have to adhere to. Hence, when Hazrat Umar asked people to pray 20 Raka'ah he did not come up with a new way of worship. Rather he followed the command that existed long before. The other point in this respect is that how could the Sahabah agree on a Bida? That is impossible. The Sahabah from whom we got the Quran and the Shariah could never agree on an act of disobedience or a Bida.
Besides, taraweeh has not replaced any fard namaz or salah of the prophet like the ginans have replaced it.
Now coming to taraweeh.Remember, Hazrat Ali during his rule did not abolish the practice of taraweeh. Taraweeh is nothing but a nightly prayer. What applies to nightly prayer (Qiyamul Layl) applies to Taraweeh. In Qiyamul Layl there is not a set number of Raka'at that we have to adhere to. Hence, when Hazrat Umar asked people to pray 20 Raka'ah he did not come up with a new way of worship. Rather he followed the command that existed long before. The other point in this respect is that how could the Sahabah agree on a Bida? That is impossible. The Sahabah from whom we got the Quran and the Shariah could never agree on an act of disobedience or a Bida.
Besides, taraweeh has not replaced any fard namaz or salah of the prophet like the ginans have replaced it.
Fortunately, none of them were Ismailis.Imam Ali, Hussain, Zainul Abideen, Mohammad Baqir and Jaffar Sadiq were all legends in their own way.
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
It is good that ali as, rule comes after these three caliphs.
Its strange that he didnt oppose or abolish any of the practices implemented by either of his predecessors.
Now either moulana Ali is right or those who oppose those practices.
Its strange that he didnt oppose or abolish any of the practices implemented by either of his predecessors.
Now either moulana Ali is right or those who oppose those practices.
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
That is the beauty of how it all turned out in reality. Look at the honor that Allah bestowed upon Hazrat Umar and Uthman, not that Hazrat Ali is any less honorable, but Allah (swt) in his wisdom, knew how the first three caliphs will be treated by a portion of the Muslims. The responsibility of assembling the word of Allah was given to them. Would Allah choose anyone but the most righteous to deal with HIS own word? Today this same quran is in every muslims household, people memorize it as it is and people respect it more than anything else. That is the quran people use for the rememberance of Allah. Ofcourse, I am not counting the Ismailis as they can sulk and deny the quran, but they have nothing. Zilch. Nada.It is good that ali as, rule comes after these three caliphs.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Br. Anajmi
AS
On personal level you did not include Q 2:221
.
AS
On personal level you did not include Q 2:221
MHI's daughter and sister are married to unbelievers in Islam.[Yusufali 2:221] Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:221]
Inter-marriage between the believers in God and the idolaters has also been prohibited by Tawrat and Injil.
You must not intermarry with them, neither giving your daughters to their sons nor taking their daughters for your sons; if you do, they will draw your sons away from the Lord and make them worship other gods. (Deut 7: 3 and 4)
Do not unite yourselves with unbelievers; they are no fit mates for you. What has righteousness to do with wickedness? Can light consort with darkness? ( 2 Corinthians 6: 14)
According to verse 21 of al Rum, Allah created for us from ourselves spouses that we may find repose in them, and caused between us love and compassion, therefore, spiritual affinity is essential between two life-partners, which is not possible if one believes in Allah and the other is an infidel who, spiritually and intellectually, is on the animal level, caught in the cobweb of falsehood, wickedness and mental retardness. It would be an unholy alliance. The infidel partner may draw the faithful away from the Lord and make him or her worship the imaginary deities and false gods. More often than not the children are affected by the conflicting beliefs of the parents. The risk is quite unnecessary, because any adverse response will lead directly to hell.
The school of Ahl ul Bayt, in view of verse 5 of al Ma-idah, allows temporary marriage with the women of those who received the scriptures. (See books of Fiqh for details about marriage between the various schools of thought.)
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Is he the same guy who said he had additional 10 Chapters of Qur'an and he was going to write them down?The next Imam, the Aga Khan III, was well known to the world
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... rt=0ShamsB
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 533
another thing..i've noticed that you're quoting the quran in a lot of places on this board...
as an ismaili, the Quran holds little or no relevance for me.
The farman of the Imam supercedes the Quran.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... topic&t=88
star_munir
verse of Ginan Momin Chetamani
(4)
Eji Joma(n) Joma(n) ma(n)ae ae Narji kahiae
Teni sa(n)kh che aelm mahain,
Chalis sipara Kuran na,
Te mahain tris che duniya mahain. Cheto.....
(4)
In every Imam it is the same Noor of Ali and the scriptures
bear that out of 40 Siparas (parts) of the Quran are a proof
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roxy
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 533
another thing..i've noticed that you're quoting the quran in a lot of places on this board...
as an ismaili, the Quran holds little or no relevance for me.
The farman of the Imam supercedes the Quran.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... topic&t=88
star_munir
verse of Ginan Momin Chetamani
(4)
Eji Joma(n) Joma(n) ma(n)ae ae Narji kahiae
Teni sa(n)kh che aelm mahain,
Chalis sipara Kuran na,
Te mahain tris che duniya mahain. Cheto.....
(4)
In every Imam it is the same Noor of Ali and the scriptures
bear that out of 40 Siparas (parts) of the Quran are a proof
-----
roxy
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
SMS said:
Khalifa Oosman has omitted some portion of the Qur'an, and, he has inserted some portion. If I was to copy the Original Qur'an-e-Shariff it will take me six years. That too I will send you, so that you will come to know what has been omitted and what has been changed (by Khalifa Oosman). Year 1899 - 48th Imam.
Note: Needless to add that the followers of Aga Khan who were eagerly waiting for the authentic Copy of Qur'an from their Imam NEVER EVER got that Original Qur'an, but the doubt implanted by the Late 48th Imam (died in 1957) lives on in their minds. The reality is there ONLY ONE QUR'AN in ARABIC - the language of its revelation to mankind, codified and circulated by the 3rd Khalif. The Sunnis and Shia's both read and recite that Arabic Qur'an.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/two-views-o ... -quran.htm
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Not too sure what you are getting at but he is the same guy who fought tooth and nail for your sorry lot and tried all his life to improve their life. He was the same guy who went out into the streets to beg for donations, holding his hat out, for the muslim youth and for their education. The same guy who suggested creating a platform for muslims which was later named All India Muslim League. Yes the same guy who was instrumental in creating the Aligarh University for muslims without which muslims would have been worse than the untouchables. Aah! and the same guy whose cart was pulled by your own ulemas rather than the horses because he set out to do what no other muslim leader dared. Don't tell me you didn't know all this! Should I go on?Muslim First wrote:Is he the same guy who said he had additional 10 Chapters of Qur'an and he was going to write them down?The next Imam, the Aga Khan III, was well known to the world
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
But dear Pardesi,
It still does not qualify him as noor of Allah...
It still does not qualify him as noor of Allah...
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Br. MF,
There is lot more to it than what you have mentioned. Actually MHI's grand daddy's third wife was a French christian woman who did not even change her religion after marrying the Imam... Also their current MHI's second ex-wife is a former German pop singer 25 years younger than him. A muslim Imam marrying a westernized pop singer who would have slept with non-mehram men throughout her life which is so common in western countries... And if you read about currrent MHI's father Prince Aly Khan you will find out that he was the biggest playboy and womanizer of all times. That is the reason Aga Khan senior made his grandson as MHI instead of his son...
Now see how Pardesi will go round and round in circles playing dandia raas around these facts...
There is lot more to it than what you have mentioned. Actually MHI's grand daddy's third wife was a French christian woman who did not even change her religion after marrying the Imam... Also their current MHI's second ex-wife is a former German pop singer 25 years younger than him. A muslim Imam marrying a westernized pop singer who would have slept with non-mehram men throughout her life which is so common in western countries... And if you read about currrent MHI's father Prince Aly Khan you will find out that he was the biggest playboy and womanizer of all times. That is the reason Aga Khan senior made his grandson as MHI instead of his son...
Now see how Pardesi will go round and round in circles playing dandia raas around these facts...
Re: Deedar (Darshan) of Maula
Thank you MF for posting the link about HERO's speech. My comments are in blue.
CALIPH UMAR'S ADDRESS AFTER JERUSALEM
After receiving the surrender of Jerusalem and completing the tour of Syria when Caliph Umar was returning to Madina he led the prayer at Jabiah. On this occasion he delivered an address which is preserved in history. The major part of his address was:
"O ye people I counsel you to read the Qur’an. Try to understand it and ponder over it. Imbibe the teachings of the Qur’an. Then practise what the Quran teaches. The Qur’an is not theoretical; it is a practical code of life. The Qur’an does not bring you the message of the Hereafter only; it is primarily intended to guide you in this life. Mold your life in accordance with the teachings of Islam for that is the way of your well being. By following any other way you will be inviting destruction.
"Fear Allah (The One True God), and whatever you want seek from Him. All men are equal. Do not flatter those in authority. Do not seek favors from others. By such acts you demean yourself. And remember that you will get only that is ordained for you, and no one can give you anything against the will of God. Then why seek things from others over which they have no control? Only supplicate God for He alone is the sovereign."
OK. Something fishy here. What was the need for stressing this point at this particular time. They were all muslims and probably better than us. Were they involved in Shirk even then? There were no "Ali worshippers" (like you always put it) at that time. Sounds like the speech was doctored.
"And speak the truth. Do not hesitate to say what you consider to be the truth. Say what you feel. Let your conscience be your guide. Let your intentions be good, for verily God is aware of your intentions. In your deeds your intentions count. Fear God, and fear no one else. Why fear others when you know that whatever sustenance ordained for you by God you will get under all circumstances? And again why fear when you know that death is ordained by God alone and will come only when He wills?"
Did anyone ask him that this applies to him too? What were his intentions when he broke his allegiance he gave to Ali at the Pond of Khum? Surely Allah is aware of his intentions. May be he had the speech prepared before the death of the prophet in anticipation of usurping the leadership.
"Allah has for the time being made me your ruler."
Oh really? Where is it in the Quran or the Sunnah? Actually if you look at the ahadith they tell us a different story. The Prophet appointed Ali as his successor. May be the Prophet went against Allah's will by appointing Ali and Umar had a private and direct line to Allah who in turn rejected the prophet and told Umar to first appoint Abu Bakr the caliph and then take the caliphate for himself.
"...... I have some responsibilities to discharge, and in this I seek your cooperation. Government is a sacred trust, and it is my endeavor not to betray the trust in any way."
No Shit!
CALIPH UMAR'S ADDRESS AFTER JERUSALEM
After receiving the surrender of Jerusalem and completing the tour of Syria when Caliph Umar was returning to Madina he led the prayer at Jabiah. On this occasion he delivered an address which is preserved in history. The major part of his address was:
"O ye people I counsel you to read the Qur’an. Try to understand it and ponder over it. Imbibe the teachings of the Qur’an. Then practise what the Quran teaches. The Qur’an is not theoretical; it is a practical code of life. The Qur’an does not bring you the message of the Hereafter only; it is primarily intended to guide you in this life. Mold your life in accordance with the teachings of Islam for that is the way of your well being. By following any other way you will be inviting destruction.
"Fear Allah (The One True God), and whatever you want seek from Him. All men are equal. Do not flatter those in authority. Do not seek favors from others. By such acts you demean yourself. And remember that you will get only that is ordained for you, and no one can give you anything against the will of God. Then why seek things from others over which they have no control? Only supplicate God for He alone is the sovereign."
OK. Something fishy here. What was the need for stressing this point at this particular time. They were all muslims and probably better than us. Were they involved in Shirk even then? There were no "Ali worshippers" (like you always put it) at that time. Sounds like the speech was doctored.
"And speak the truth. Do not hesitate to say what you consider to be the truth. Say what you feel. Let your conscience be your guide. Let your intentions be good, for verily God is aware of your intentions. In your deeds your intentions count. Fear God, and fear no one else. Why fear others when you know that whatever sustenance ordained for you by God you will get under all circumstances? And again why fear when you know that death is ordained by God alone and will come only when He wills?"
Did anyone ask him that this applies to him too? What were his intentions when he broke his allegiance he gave to Ali at the Pond of Khum? Surely Allah is aware of his intentions. May be he had the speech prepared before the death of the prophet in anticipation of usurping the leadership.
"Allah has for the time being made me your ruler."
Oh really? Where is it in the Quran or the Sunnah? Actually if you look at the ahadith they tell us a different story. The Prophet appointed Ali as his successor. May be the Prophet went against Allah's will by appointing Ali and Umar had a private and direct line to Allah who in turn rejected the prophet and told Umar to first appoint Abu Bakr the caliph and then take the caliphate for himself.
"...... I have some responsibilities to discharge, and in this I seek your cooperation. Government is a sacred trust, and it is my endeavor not to betray the trust in any way."
No Shit!