ozmujaheed wrote:What logic or historical artifacts is good enough for Shias to change their view that Abubakr, Omar and Othman were not the cause of Ali, Hassan or Husains death.
Shias do not blame Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman for the cause of Ali, Hasan and Husain's deaths. When Umar broke down the door to Fatima's house, she was standing behind it and the door fell on her injuring her. This may have contributed to her death. Of course, Umar may not have known that she was behind the door. God knows the truth.
Hasan's treaty with Muawiya when ceding Caliphate to him had the agreement that Caliphate would revert to Hasan after Muawiya's death. To ensure succession of Yazeed to the Caliphate, he had Hasan murdered.
ozmujaheed wrote:Again sure they had family disputes and inheritance but let us leave it there and not make it into some massive conspiracy and propaganda. It is okay not to follow the Khalifas and wives but that is no reason to abuse and curse them.
Inheritance had nothing to do with it. It is about succession to Prophet.
ozmujaheed wrote:If Ali had the respect to keep aside his personal affairs make mends with the Khalifas and wives for the overall unity of Islam , why would you do the opposite to segregate into Sunni & Shia
Sunni and Shia are different religions within Islam rather like Catholicism and Protestantism are in Christianity. Christians have learned to live together. Muslims did not learn. Causes are many. But one stands out. After the caliphate was usurped from ahlul bayt, the latter did not relinquish their claim to it. This enraged both Ummayads and their successors, Abbasids, and they sought to eliminate Imams of ahlul bayt. Shia-Sunni rift solidified due to persecution, by these Caliphs, of the followers of Ahlul Bayt. In time, the followers of Umayyads and Abbasids came to be called Sunnis. They succeeded in converting the majority of the Muslim population living away from the center of action in the Middle East. While converting them they also sowed enmity against the Shia. This has been revived with vengeance by Wahhabis and modern day Salafis and Nasibis. The majority of Muslims in Middle East are Shia. Sunnis are in the majority outside Middle East and they have fallen hook line and sinker for the minority Arab propaganda against the Shia.
ozmujaheed wrote:By that point Shias are equally enemies of Alis teachings and ideology. If Shias were victims so what we can take the initiative for overall good.
Extremist Sunnis attack the Shia. If they left them alone, there would be no problem. Take your preachings to them. I have pointed out that there is no fundamental difference between the Shia and Sunni creed, except that Shia revere Imams of ahlul bayt.
ozmujaheed wrote:Also let us not mix Salafi ideology with varios Sunni schools. Salad like Shiaism, Abbasite were later creations. Also there is no need for Sunnism , we are all Muslims and tolerant of one anothers flavors, focussing on positives and avoiding mistakes of the past.
These are pious 'pie in the sky' wishes. The difference are here to stay. The majority are ok with them It is the extremists who are bent on perpetuating the violence. And they will not listen as you witness on this board.
ozmujaheed wrote:If you read history well Aisha blamed Ali for Othmans death and went to war yet on defeat Ali pardoned her.
Prophet accepted Abu Sufyan and Ali honored Aisha as ummul mumineen. However, to claim that they pardoned them is stretching a bit. In any case Allah will deal with them. Sunnis consider Hind, Abu Sufyan's wife and Muawiya's mother, as one of the Sahabas of the Prophet. She is the one who, during the battle of Uhud, famously tore open dead Hamza's breast with a dagger and chewed his liver. She also participated in mutilating other fallen Muslim's bodies by cutting off their ears and noses for her ornaments. Abu Sufyan publicly chastised her and apologized to Muslims for her behavior and said that he was not responsible for her behavior.
By the way, Ali's chivalrous behavior towards the the first three Khalifas and Abu Sufyan were his regard for them as Prophet's fathers-in-law. Abu Sufyan's daughter Umm Habiba married Prophet before the battle of Badr in which Abu Sufyan led the battle against Muslims. Hind was not the mother of Umm Habiba. Her mother was Safiya bint Aas.
After his rehabilitation amongst Muslims, Abu Sufyan visited his daughter, Umm Habiba, and was about to sit on the chair which was covered. with Prophet's blanket. Umm Habiba, ummul mimineen, quickly removed the blanket before Abu Sufyan could sit on it. Abu Sufyan protested that she showed disrespect to her father. Umm Habiba said to him that he was not fit to sit on Prophet's blanket and asked him to leave her house.
ozmujaheed wrote:Ali has not blamed Omar for Fatemas death, and if the issue was to big he would have not accepted to be the 4th Caliph or adopted Abubakrs son within his fold.
Like I wrote, Fatema's death may have been the result of injuries she sustained when Umar broke the door behind which she was standing. Only Allah knows the truth. Ali's acceptance of Caliphate had nothing to do with this episode. He accepted people's call to fulfill his duties.
ozmujaheed wrote:Muawiya and Yazid had no connection to Quraish ie Abubakr and were from different clan ie Umayyads.
Ummayds were a clan of Quraysh. Abu Suhfyan was the primary Quraysh leader who fought against Muslims at battles of Badr, Uhid and Khandaq. Muawiya was his son and Yazeed, his grandson.
ozmujaheed wrote:Ali was killed by kharij which is again a different clan.
Kharijites were not a clan but a group of pious Muslims who did not agree with the truce at the battle of Siffin and sought to murder both Ali, Muawiya and the latter's commander, Amr bin Aas. They succeeded with Ali.
ozmujaheed wrote:So Shias are blaming the wrong people for Alis death, it is like someone blaming all Muslims and Prophets for the few terrorists in 21st century.
Ali was killed by a Kharijite but Muawiya's enmity with Ali stretches back to the time of pre-Islamic Makka and was solidified when Ali killed many of his relatives at the battle of Badr. Muawiya sought revenge and he got his chance when he joined Aaisha in falsely blaming Ali for Usman's murder. Usman was an Umayyad just like Muawiya.
Muawiya did not let Ali live in peace and caused fitna in Islam which was continued by his son Yazeed. Umayyads and Abbasids who replaced them managed to convert non-Arabs beyond Middle East to their point of view.
