Progressive matam

[Conscíous]

I asking show me what proves the watch is 'SOLID GOD'.

And I'm asking you, show me what proves that watch is not solid gold..

Which evidence you have taken as proof of 'SOLID GOLD'.

If I show/ tell you, will you show me your evidence that the watch is not solid gold??

[truebohra]

I asking show me what proves the watch is 'SOLID GOD'.

And I'm asking you, show me what proves that watch is not solid gold..

Which evidence you have taken as proof of 'SOLID GOLD'.

If I show/ tell you, will you show me your evidence that the watch is not solid gold??

1) I have not made any statement. I don't know whether its Brass, Gold plated or 'SOLID GOLD' hence i don't have to prove anything.
2) GM, Clearly have said that its not 'gold plated' but 'SOLID GOLD' so prove it.

or care to answer this question
Where have you seen it? Did you went for Qadambosi? and how did you know it is 'SOLID GOLD' did you smell it or have some special vision to recognize gold? Wow, you extra sensory perception i really admire it. Ok ,is that somewhere where you have seen the photograph from close angle i hope is not at your 'Fanatic Relatives' home

[ghulam muhammed]

I have not made any statement. I don't know whether its Brass, Gold plated or 'SOLID GOLD'

Either you are dumb or acting like one. Do you think that your master who enjoys showcasing his illgotten wealth by inviting corrupt politicians to his PALACE which any damn fool can say is worth not less then Rs.2000 crores or by openly travelling in Rolls Royce, Concorde and luxury liners will wear an ordinary roadside watch ? If the watch is golden color then does it make you believe that it is a 'gold plated', 'brass' or a ' fake chinese replica' available on the streets on bangkok ? What you are unsuccesfully trying to do is to defend the indefensable.

You are trying to act like a criminal lawyer who wants the photographs to be sent to a forensic laboratory and examined under a microscope. The dai's extravagant lifestyle and his splashing of illgotten wealth all over is for everyone to see. He spends crores on a single out country trip, lives openly like a king and dumb abdes like you are fighting over a gold watch which is not worth even 0.00000000000001% of his total wealth instead of retrospecting and accepting the glaring truth. Its high time you wake up and ask yourself as to how correct it is for a spiritual leader who swears by Panjatan Pak (a.s.) to act in a manner contrary to their teachings.

[Conscíous]

1) I have not made any statement. I don't know whether its Brass, Gold plated or 'SOLID GOLD' hence i don't have to prove anything.

Because you are to busy poking holes in his evidence which you don't believe, but the rest of us do..

2) GM, Clearly have said that its not 'gold plated' but 'SOLID GOLD' so prove it.

Ghulam muhammed word is enough evidence for us and if you say otherwise, than show us your proof that his statement is false.. If I was a jury member, I would also like to see the evidence (from the person who's arguing /disagreeing) that the watch is not solid gold, apart from you tearing down ghulam muhammed creditability, which is not helping your case

[truebohra]

1) I have not made any statement. I don't know whether its Brass, Gold plated or 'SOLID GOLD' hence i don't have to prove anything.

Because you are to busy poking holes in his evidence which you don't believe, but the rest of us do..

2) GM, Clearly have said that its not 'gold plated' but 'SOLID GOLD' so prove it.

Ghulam muhammed word is enough evidence for us and if you say otherwise, than show us your proof that his statement is false.. If I was a jury member, I would also like to see the evidence (from the person who disagree) that the watch is not solid gold, apart from you tearing down ghulam muhammed creditability, which is not helping your case

BooM, I think you understand English well. And you understand
1) I have not made any statement. I don't know whether its Brass, Gold plated or 'SOLID GOLD' hence i don't have to prove anything.
2) GM, Clearly have said that its not 'gold plated' but 'SOLID GOLD' so prove it....

[truebohra]

I have not made any statement. I don't know whether its Brass, Gold plated or 'SOLID GOLD'

Either you are dumb or acting like one. Do you think that your master who enjoys showcasing his illgotten wealth by inviting corrupt politicians to his PALACE which any damn fool can say is worth not less then Rs.2000 crores or by openly travelling in Rolls Royce, Concorde and luxury liners will wear an ordinary roadside watch ? If the watch is golden color then does it make you believe that it is a 'gold plated', 'brass' or a ' fake chinese replica' available on the streets on bangkok ? What you are unsuccesfully trying to do is to defend the indefensable.

You are trying to act like a criminal lawyer who wants the photographs to be sent to a forensic laboratory and examined under a microscope. The dai's extravagant lifestyle and his splashing of illgotten wealth all over is for everyone to see. He spends crores on a single out country trip, lives openly like a king and dumb abdes like you are fighting over a gold watch which is not worth even 0.00000000000001% of his total wealth instead of retrospecting and accepting the glaring truth. Its high time you wake up and ask yourself as to how correct it is for a spiritual leader who swears by Panjatan Pak (a.s.) to act in a manner contrary to their teachings.

Your ranting doesn't help in this case. You argument is that Sayedna wears GOLD (SOLID GOLD) & preaches not to wear. How can you simply make a statement without any proof of sayedna was weating a 'SOLID GOLD' watch. You can say so that you think what you saw was 'SOLID GOLD'. Whether he lives in Palace or travels in Rolls Royce doesn't prove what you 'Think;.

[Conscíous]

repeating it over and over will not help your case.. Ghulam muhammed word in enough proof, because he could be an expert, which you don't know and if you really want some proof that will convince and satisfy you, then you could borrow your master's watch, so we can conduct tests on it

[ghulam muhammed]

[truebohra]

repeating it over and over will not help your case.. Ghulam muhammed word in enough proof, because he could be an expert, which you don't know and if you really want some proof that will convince and satisfy you, then you could borrow your master's watch, so we can conduct tests on it

It has already helped. It for everybody to see, instead of answering you & GM are going round & round with foolish grin And that defines your Reform Movement !!!
By the way the the two laughing face on GM;s post increases his credibility. Keep it up GM once again!!!!

[Al Zulfiqar]

jc,

you are completely wrong and must apologise. a true bohra is one who displays blind faith in the dai, the dai's family and their employees, the amils,

how dare you refer to such 'true bohras' as idiots?

AZ, as usual ... you have proved you can only rant...

tb,

are you now denying that one does not have to have 100% blind faith if you have to believe in the dai? that is what ALL your abde colleagues, amils and syedna's family have always claimed, that an abde MUST have total blind faith or he is not a bohra, and that is exactly what i have re-iterated too. then why such a show of petulance?

[ghulam muhammed]

You can say so that you think what you saw was 'SOLID GOLD'. Whether he lives in Palace or travels in Rolls Royce doesn't prove what you 'Think;.

Thanks for admitting that he lives in Palaces and travels in Rolls Royce but to fool his abdes and make them believe that he leads a simple life as expected of a spiritual leader he wears a watch which is either gold plated, brass or the chinese replica.

By the way the the two laughing face on GM;s post increases his credibility. Keep it up GM once again!!!!

People over here are smart enough to understand as to who is having the last laugh. All are not dumb.

[Al Zulfiqar]

TB,

i know that bro. gm is 100% right and the watch that syedna is seen wearing is solid gold. not only that he has 15 other watches like it from various brands, all made of solid gold and encrusted with diamonds and precious stones.

how do i know this? you will find it hard to believe, but i must let you know that bro. gm is a renowned jeweller. he is too modest to admit it, but i have known him since a long time and he has personally sold some of these watches to the zoo dwellers in saifee mahal. he is being a gentleman, but if he wishes he can even disclose the value of these watches which run into crores.

btw, did you know that as per latest technology there are now laser/radiation combo probes which can assess the base metal % of selected elements such as gold from even 50 mtrs away with legally acceptable forensic accuracy? bro. gm can reveal, if he wanted to, how many metal plates, screws and joints have been inserted in syedna's body, with the help of this machine, but he is too decent and prefers not to kiss and tell.

this probe may also detect the amount of mercury accumulated in your basal ganglions if you wish to submit for an impartial test.

[Conscíous]

Hahaha ^^ HAhahaaaaaaa LMAO

[profastian]

repeating it over and over will not help your case.. Ghulam muhammed word in enough proof, because he could be an expert, which you don't know and if you really want some proof that will convince and satisfy you, then you could borrow your master's watch, so we can conduct tests on it

All progressives are descended from dogs. What is the proof. The proof is my word. Why? Because i am an expert on the progressive species..
Boom and GM , are you really that dumb or just play acting?

[anajmi]

There is enough haraam conducted by the Dai that we do not need a gold watch to prove it. His luxurious lifestyle at the expense of his abdes is the biggest haraam in the sight of Allah. He has elevated himself to the status of a deity that requires sajda from his followers and because of that, because of his desire to become partners with Allah, he has condemned himself to the deepest chasm of hell. You do not need a gold watch to prove this. Every time an abde does sajda to the Dai, the abde is actually throwing the Dai deeper into hell.

[prof.Ali]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... VihOjTPzs8

sunnis are not much behind

[sallu_baba]

Funny thing about that video you're parading so proudly Prof Ali. Have you noticed the number of "Sunnis" that have denounced such behavious in the comments below it? While orthodox bohras are proud of their groveling singing madhaes. It's disingenuous to compare apples to oranges and your touting this video like you are only brings forth to the seasoned members of this forum your hypocrisy.

[prof.Ali]

Funny thing about that video you're parading so proudly Prof Ali. Have you noticed the number of "Sunnis" that have denounced such behavious in the comments below it? While orthodox bohras are proud of their groveling singing madhaes. It's disingenuous to compare apples to oranges and your touting this video like you are only brings forth to the seasoned members of this forum your hypocrisy.

who says all dawoodi bohra supports sajda to DAI?

[SBM]

Funny thing about that video you're parading so proudly Prof Ali. Have you noticed the number of "Sunnis" that have denounced such behavious in the comments below it? While orthodox bohras are proud of their groveling singing madhaes. It's disingenuous to compare apples to oranges and your touting this video like you are only brings forth to the seasoned members of this forum your hypocrisy.

who says all dawoodi bohra supports sajda to DAI?

You are right not all Dawoodi Bohra support Sajda, Reformist do not but funny part is Stranger liked the post and comment but his and your friends on the regressive side has defended Sajada and compared it to Sadja to Adam (As) and Sadja to Yusuf (AS), I still have to read one comment from likes of you condemning Sajda to Syedna.
BTW Prof A, Remember 2 wrongs do not make one Right.

[stranger]

You are right not all Dawoodi Bohra support Sajda, Reformist do not but funny part is Stranger liked the post and comment but his and your friends on the regressive side has defended Sajada and compared it to Sadja to Adam (As) and Sadja to Yusuf (AS), I still have to read one comment from likes of you condemning Sajda to Syedna.
BTW Prof A, Remember 2 wrongs do not make one Right.

OB,
I liked it because what prof.Ali said, is correct : Not all Dawoodi Bohra supports Sajada to Da'i.
can you show me a single post where i have supported it. .But i can surely show the other way :-

Read my post in response to Anajmi.
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... &start=270
Re: NASS CONFERRED
by stranger on Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:59 am

[SBM]

Br. Stranger
In that case my apology to you and you only.. I hope you have condemned it too....

[anajmi]

Unfortunately for the Dawoodi Bohras, the Dai supports sajda to the Dai. Have people like stranger ever forbidden anyone from performing sajda to the Dai? If the Dai supports this haraam practice then those who support the Dai unequivocally, automatically support this haraam practice.

7:163. And ask them (O Muhammad SAW) about the town that was by the sea; when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them, for they used to rebel against Allâh’s Command (disobey Allâh) [see the Qur’ân: V.4:154 and its footnote].
7:164. And when a community among them said: "Why do you preach to a people whom Allâh is about to destroy or to punish with a severe torment?" (The preachers) said: "In order to be free from guilt before your Lord (Allâh), and perhaps they may fear Allâh."
7:165. So when they forgot the remindings that had been given to them, We rescued those who forbade evil, but We seized those who did wrong with a severe torment because they used to rebel against Allah's command (disobey Allâh).

Which means that the Dai will be siezed as well as those who did nothing to forbid this evil.

[stranger]

Br. Stranger
In that case my apology to you and you only.. I hope you have condemned it too....

Bro SBM,
Never mind
well its but obvious that Sajda is meant for only Allah (SWT) and No one else. That what we are taught in Dini madrasa as well.In my entire life i have never seen or observe that any Aamil has instructed people to do Sajda to Da'i Or ever our Da'i has asked for the Sajda from followers. I donno why this is much hyped by the other side that bohra do Sajda to Da'i and etc. I have never ever seen any bohra doing , neither asked to do so. All i can remember is there was a line in Madeh which states : "Sajda Tujhe Wajib hai" and its been since years i have not heard this particular Madeh. Yeah thats True when i use to hear it during my childhood days made me wonder that how it can be ? Then while reading from random sources later and few of the orthodox brothers that its Sajda-e-Tazeem its referring to in the Madeh, nothing to do with Sajda-e-Ibadah. Its said keeping in mind the respect for the Da'i, not worship of the Da'i. Its just said in one of the part of madeh. I am not able to express myself fully here but what i mean is that its just for the sake of praise and respect, Not to provoke any action.
However, I totally believe that perform Sajda to any anybody, except Allah, is wrong and prohibited.

Anajmi,
In the First Place, Nobody do Sajda do Da'i and even if someone from my family, friends or dear one gonna perform this act ever then surely i will gonna tell them that this is wrong. You donno but on numerous occasion i have got into argument and carried differences with my brother and close friends on the things i don't find apt.

[ghulam muhammed]

In my entire life i have never seen or observe that any Aamil has instructed people to do Sajda to Da'i Or ever our Da'i has asked for the Sajda from followers.

Bro.stranger,

Have you been for qadambosi in saifee mahal ? If so then you would have seen that the moment abdes enter the grand hall where the dai is seated on his throne, the first thing they do is sajda after entering the hall, then after a lot of 'dhakka dhuki' the abde finally reaches the dai's throne then he kisses his hand and then does sajda and kisses his legs. Nowadays due to the ill health of the dai, abdes are not allowed to kiss his hands but only do sajda and kiss his legs. It seems that after the recent paralytic stroke it is very difficult for the dai to lift his hand every now and then for the hundreds of abdes who throng to kiss his hands.

[Conscíous]

ghulam muhammed saheb,
The way I've understood what bro stranger is saying, that is not sajda what you have just told us in your post above.. According to him, that is Sajda-e-Tazeem and not sajda-e-Ibadah.. I think, the word sajda is irrelevant to him..

[anajmi]

I donno why this is much hyped by the other side that bohra do Sajda to Da'i and etc. I have never ever seen any bohra doing , neither asked to do so.

As soon as I read that, I knew you were nothing more than an apologetic abde out to defend his Dai no matter what. Sajda to the Dai is a common every day occurence and if you say that you have never seen any bohra doing it, then you are either a liar or blind. I would go with liar.
If your Dai has never asked anyone to do sajda to him, and people still do it, then your Dai can stop this haraam practice with one sentence. All he has to do is issue a command that no one should do sajda to him. Abdes will obey his command. But why has he never said that? Will he ever say that? Of course not. He covets the status of a deity. Sorry bro, but your Dai is hell bound.

[SBM]

In the First Place, Nobody do Sajda do Da'i

See picture number 29.
http://www.zeninfosys.net/zi6/content/d ... ifee-mahal

[Conscíous]

Bro SBM,
that is Sajda-e-Tazeem.. cant you see the difference huh ??

[Conscíous]

Bro SBM,
After some thought, I could be wrong about my last statement, because the person prostrating in picture 29 is likely to be a hindu, so it could be that he is doing sajda-e-Ibadah and not sajda-e-Tazeem like the bohras do..

[Smart]

All progressives are descended from dogs. What is the proof. The proof is my word. Why? Because i am an expert on the progressive species..

Dear Profastian,
This is getting interesting coming from you. People who are reformists, are here and are so because their parents / forefathers were abdes. Though they no longer owe their unquestioning allegiance to the cult now, they surely are bothered to come here because they were born and brought up in an abde family and found out the truth.

All said and done, it is clear that they have descended from abdes. Do you mean to say abdes = dogs? Do I take your word as proof for this?