Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:08 pm**

Heard from this friend of mine in London that ezudin sahib is trying to get this Taizoon fellow to testify against the qutbis. He was the one who put up this zahirbatin website supporting the qutbis. So either they will make him testify against his website to prove it was false or they will make him disapear.

Posted: **Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:33 pm**

haqniwaat wrote:So either they will make him testify against his website to prove it was false or they will make him disapear.

They will give the supari to Qaid Johar as he is best suited for the job !!

Posted: **Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:20 pm**

Apparently this taizoon fellow is very important for the case. Wonder if he is really going through with it to stay in his family or will he be disowned by his father again. Does anyone know?

Posted: **Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:22 pm**

haqniwaat wrote:Apparently this taizoon fellow is very important for the case. Wonder if he is really going through with it to stay in his family or will he be disowned by his father again. Does anyone know?

He opened his mouth once and saw what happened to himself. Why will he risk it all over?

The facts are that:
a) he did go public once is undeniable and b) was "ostracized" in some form by "interests"
The beans were spilled.

Question is -
a) Who has "benefited" from his silencing?
b) Are we interested in the "Truth" if it is "inconvenient" ?

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:23 pm**

I do wonder how they are going to make him deny what he wrote over 10 years ago: http://web.archive.org/web/200303070235 ... batin.com/

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:44 pm**

kimanumanu wrote:I do wonder how they are going to make him deny what he wrote over 10 years ago: http://web.archive.org/web/200303070235 ... batin.com/

Easy. Threaten him like they did before - with violence and threats to split him up from his family. Imagine what would happen to someone who has thousands of lanats on him by an entire community and then his entire family shuns him. Without moral support, he would break like glass! And who would dare to support him? !

Posted: **Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:58 am**

This whole zahir batin thinking should worry all munineen, nay, all truth lovers. This will quickly lead to distrust and the paradox “ I am a Cretan. And I am telling you that all Cretans are liars”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox

Follow the following chain of thought.

A Bhai saheb says: There is a mazoom in zahir and another one in batin.
1.) An adna mumin: But you/we were giving misaq, and you repeated for 50 years that this is the mazoom, and now you are saying something different. So were you not sincere in your misaq.
2.) Bhai saheb: No, that was in taqiyat, and we are allowed to lie in such cases. The real mazoom was different.
3.) Adna mumin: So are you sure that Burhanuddin Moula did nass on Mufaddal Moula?
4.) Bhai saheb: Yes. [And suppose he/she was a witness, he can say.] And I was a witness.
5.) adna mumin: But you were also saying for 50 years that he was the mazoom, and now you are telling me he was not the “real” mazoom. So why should I believe what you say now about the nass?

Gets to the point of: If you lied once, and you now say it is okay to lie about that thing, how can I be sure that what you are saying now is true? Lead the lack of credibility and the above paradox.

If statement 1 is correct, then he is lying in statement 2. If statement 2 is true, then he was lying in 1, so how can we be sure now. So those people who gave the misaq and are now/were talking of zahir-batin; and they are saying we are witness to the nass, they lied once, so how/why can we believe them now?

You can see that things like zahir-batin and takiyat (it is okay to lie if necessary) can and should be fairly damaging in the court of law. If you say that it is okay to lie when necessary, how can we believe your testimony in the court of law. You might just be thinking that it is necessary to lie about this matter, and you could just be lying under oath. So even under oath, and in a court of law, your testimony should carry no weight.

------ Consider one more thing ------------------

Quaid Zohar bhai saheb: [In Azad Maidan;] We will do their Baraat. And all the coercion, forced signatures, etc.
In the court submission on April 29th: We have not done any baraat of them. Or any coercion.

Now Quaid Zohar bhai saheb in the court of law: I was a witness to the nass.
But then, you said the above contradictory things, and lied: So how can we/court trust you now that your above claim to be a witness to the nass is correct? You may be lying about that? And you might think it is necessary and okay to lie.

If all the Qasr-e-Ali believe in this doctrine of zahir-batin, taqiyaat, their words in the court of law, and also with regular mumineens, should not carry much weight.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, this lying has been very distressing to me, has shaken my faith, and I am just trying to keep my Islam and Iman strong. Allah give us all strength. Some other time I will write about how these event have shaken my faith. I think others should write too about how the events of the past 8 months have hurt them, may be in a separate topic.

In short, it has been the following: If you can lie about this matter of nass, and commit (may be) fraud in matter, what other claims that you have been making in all the matters of faith should we now doubt? How can we believe all the stuff you said in the matter of religion? And that has shaken me up.

Example: Mufaddal Moula added a son of Imam Hassan during the last moments of Imam Hussein in one of his waiz. We never heard that before. If it is repeated for 50-100 years, we all maybe gone, and the people then will take it as accepted truth. But it is a current addition. Well, what else was added over the past several centuries that we take for granted now, but I should start doubting? You can see how this leads to doubting things about the faith. I pray to Allah to guide us to the path of Haqq and keep the Iman and Islam strong. Allah, you have given Islam and Iman at birth, I pray that you help us preserve it. Ameen. That is the prayer I will end with.

Posted: **Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:03 am**

The Zaahir-Batin Concept makes sense.

Zaahir Nuss : SMB’s nass on SMS
Batin Nuss : SMB’s secret nuss on SKQ

Due to taqiyet, SKQ did not speak up for so many years .. now taqiyet can be lifted and it can be revealed, just the way zaahir-batin concept has been revealed.
Abdes and Amtes must rejoice, this are positive signs of Imam doing Zuhur, one by one baatin is coming out … preparing muminees with zaahir batin concept.
Problem solved !

Posted: **Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:38 pm**

Human being, If SKQ is baatin dai, why would he fight court case and try to be zahir? If he is truly baatinDai, he would uphold staying in takiyat and keeping his Dawat in takiyat and behind closed doors. Hindsight - SKQ as 53 rd Dai claimant, made major mistake by initiating court case. Now people think he is after zaahiri khilaafat, power, money.

So no brother human being, tongue-in-cheek and humor of SMS as zahir and SKQ as baatin is fine,, but what a poetic justice to this whole Zahir-baatin tidal wave!

Posted: **Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:23 am**

Alam

I was humorously putting the zaahir batin controversy. There is nothing divine about these theories, the faith of mumineen is a joke and matter of play for the Kothari management, they can design and throw any crap theory to followers to mend their problems and egos.

Qasre-Ali and Baite Zainee or anything that survives on kothar’s deception are bunch of pranksters in white robes having enough time and interest to sit and dish out such theories.

Funnily, these guys have enough support from the followers and there is no need to indulge in such mockery of faith, but the greed, insecurity and hatred has blinded them. They are not united in their own family, thought and upbringing, these guys definitely cannot carry the Dai-Ship office. Either helpless cowards or cunning diktators.

Posted: **Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:31 pm**

adna_mumin wrote:http://fatemidawatlegal.com/?p=121

The Hon’ble Court was pleased to allow the amendments to the plaint as per the draft amendments submitted to the Court by the Plaintiff (Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin). The amendments have to be carried out by July 21, 2014 and the Defendant (Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin) has been directed to file his written statement by September 4, 2014. The matter will be listed on September 9, 2014 for “Framing of Issues”.

Question is: What are those amendments? I think the big update for today was to be submission of the written statement from SKQ side. Also it was mentioned in previous update that a regular "schedule" would be published or something, where is that? This time the gap is almost 2 months for next update! Duh

Last 2 days for filing the written statement to amendments filed last time. And next Tuesday the hearing to "Frame the issue(s)". That will be a significant milestone to the case. Broken families await with bated breath. May Allah ta hasten the punishment of the evil doers and grant tawfeeq and sabr to those on Haq. Trying times, these are, no doubt.

Anyone here wants to hazard a guess on how long the case might last? I was told a year would be realistic last time i checked with someone in the know.

Posted: **Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:41 pm**

adna_mumin wrote:
adna_mumin wrote:http://fatemidawatlegal.com/?p=121

The Hon’ble Court was pleased to allow the amendments to the plaint as per the draft amendments submitted to the Court by the Plaintiff (Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin). The amendments have to be carried out by July 21, 2014 and the Defendant (Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin) has been directed to file his written statement by September 4, 2014. The matter will be listed on September 9, 2014 for “Framing of Issues”.

Question is: What are those amendments? I think the big update for today was to be submission of the written statement from SKQ side. Also it was mentioned in previous update that a regular "schedule" would be published or something, where is that? This time the gap is almost 2 months for next update! Duh
Last 2 days for filing the written statement to amendments filed last time. And next Tuesday the hearing to "Frame the issue(s)". That will be a significant milestone to the case. Broken families await with bated breath. May Allah ta hasten the punishment of the evil doers and grant tawfeeq and sabr to those on Haq. Trying times, these are, no doubt.

Anyone here wants to hazard a guess on how long the case might last? I was told a year would be realistic last time i checked with someone in the know.

As your brother, I strongly urge everyone who is waiting to go ahead and give misaaq to Syedna Qutbuddin TUS. Nobody knows his or her hour of death. The main belief of the Bohras is returning to heaven with the help of the Dai. Without his help, one cannot climb the ladder (siri), and thus is destined to return to this world or even worse.

Posted: **Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:54 am**

Does SKQ provide written text of his misaaq ? would like to read the terms and conditions.

Does Misaaq hold its literal value or is it a token ritual ?

What are the sabeel charges ?

Does fatemi dawat website provide authentic auditable accounts ?

Posted: **Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:56 pm**

haqniwaat wrote:
adna_mumin wrote: Last 2 days for filing the written statement to amendments filed last time. And next Tuesday the hearing to "Frame the issue(s)". That will be a significant milestone to the case. Broken families await with bated breath. May Allah ta hasten the punishment of the evil doers and grant tawfeeq and sabr to those on Haq. Trying times, these are, no doubt.

Anyone here wants to hazard a guess on how long the case might last? I was told a year would be realistic last time i checked with someone in the know.
As your brother, I strongly urge everyone who is waiting to go ahead and give misaaq to Syedna Qutbuddin TUS. Nobody knows his or her hour of death. The main belief of the Bohras is returning to heaven with the help of the Dai. Without his help, one cannot climb the ladder (siri), and thus is destined to return to this world or even worse.

It is not so easy brother. One may argue that well, it has never been easy for all humans in general but that's digressing.

I say so because of the power of communication today. The tools of modern communication have been used so well ever since 2011 that it is a massive, massive thing for a ordinary mind-my-business Bohra to even begin to fathom what has possibly happened.

The ordinary bohra has seen:

1) A moving visual of Burhanuddin Moula RA sat outside Raudat Tahera and do what was alleged to be 'Nass'.
That message was widely transmitted -

a) by live video,
b) by follow up letters (misaal in name of Moula RA) that were read out
c) by updated Misaaq texts

2) He/she has seen Moulana RA sit in takht in Ashura on more than one occasion next to Shz Mufaddal

And of course,
3) He/she has seen the janaza mubaraka of Moulana RA and who was right at the forefront that day

These 3 factors in my opinion make it extremely difficult for anyone to fathom that a conspiracy this scale was possible; they cannot begin to realize how this could all be and now out of oblivion walks the Mazoon ud dawat they had heard of in the misaq and hadn't heard much of till now.

There is a theological debate of who to trust; there is also the perception war of negative publicity that Syedna Qutbuddin tus is confronting. This is a long-haul and can only be made easier if one of the below 2 things happened:

a) The courts complete their work - the happenings are widely reported - people keep their eyes and ears open to the case and of course, that the judgement finds the rightful while also taking the liars to task for misleading people - there must at least be a cheating case that must follow leading to serious consequences.
OR
b) That every mumin prayers get answered and the Imam uz zaman SA does zuhoor

It is for this reason i say that this case is important for every family where there is at least one member that is "awake". For both Duniya and Akhirat.

Rabbana aatena fid duniya hasanatan va fil aakhirate hasanatan va qena azaaban naar.

Posted: **Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:57 am**

Ameen to your dua brother adna mumin

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:37 am**

all you guys after zahir and batin and finding the true dai or believing in the nass you all should take out three hours of your life get the dvd of OMG and watch it with concentration. atleast few of you will get above all this crap. and for others there is no hope.

Posted: **Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:40 pm**

Basic concept of bohras of thinking that a man in this world is GOD like figure and has power to give guarantee of jannah is incorrect and could not be justified by any means, even Quraan doesnt approves any such thing.

Posted: **Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:28 am**

adna_mumin wrote:(b) That every mumin prayers get answered and the Imam uz zaman SA does zuhoor

Is this statement conscientiously true ? do mumin really pray for Imam-uz-zaman zuhur ? do they really want Imam ! because everything is about Visible Dai and sugary promises he makes !

Posted: **Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:16 pm**

Bombay High Court Declaratory Suit Update: 5th September 2014

September 6th, 2014 by admin

The Defendant Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin’s advocate asked for more time to file their written statement. The Hon’ble Court has directed the Defendant to file his written statement by September 10, 2014. The matter will be listed on September 15, 2014 for “Framing of Issues”.

[End of post in http://fatemidawatlegal.com/]

While SKQ side had to file amended plaint by July 21, (one doesnt know when they indeed did that), the defendants lawyers were not ready to get a reply in order (in time for listing it tomorrow 9/9). They need another week to reply.

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:57 am**

MUSTAPH wrote:all you guys after zahir and batin and finding the true dai or believing in the nass you all should take out three hours of your life get the dvd of OMG and watch it with concentration. atleast few of you will get above all this crap. and for others there is no hope.

Brother, with all due respect, not everyone is as enlightened as you are.

Some still believe in these basic doctrines that define our faith.

i for one, dont believe that the Dai is required for our salvation, but since its part of the faith, i will accept it as something that cannot be removed or negated, but can be ignored at ones own discretion

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:58 am**

humanbeing wrote:
adna_mumin wrote:(b) That every mumin prayers get answered and the Imam uz zaman SA does zuhoor

Is this statement conscientiously true ? do mumin really pray for Imam-uz-zaman zuhur ? do they really want Imam ! because everything is about Visible Dai and sugary promises he makes !

these days, every mumin is praying for this

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:36 am**

adna_mumin wrote: Bombay High Court Declaratory Suit Update: 5th September 2014

September 6th, 2014 by admin

The Defendant Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin’s advocate asked for more time to file their written statement. The Hon’ble Court has directed the Defendant to file his written statement by September 10, 2014. The matter will be listed on September 15, 2014 for “Framing of Issues”.

[End of post in http://fatemidawatlegal.com/]

While SKQ side had to file amended plaint by July 21, (one doesnt know when they indeed did that), the defendants lawyers were not ready to get a reply in order (in time for listing it tomorrow 9/9). They need another week to reply.

There are scores of mumin who have been left in limbo for months now due to the insensitive and callous attitude of Shz MS and Shz QJ towards the court case. They have purposely tried to elongate the court hearings , by not submitting documents on time..probably they have ran out of forged documents now !!
In Dawat's history we have seen that true Dais have left no stone unturned in front of emperors and even British judges to prove their legitimacy, because they cared about the dawat and they knew the importance of the matter.
But here , our wise Shz MS is busy hobnobbing around the world, least bothered about the case. Probably he knows that the more he elongated , the more he can carry on the loot. This procrastinating behaviour is not indicative of a true Dai.

Posted: **Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:35 am**

September 15, 2014 is just 6 days . Let's wait and see .

Moiz_Dhaanu wrote:
adna_mumin wrote: Bombay High Court Declaratory Suit Update: 5th September 2014

September 6th, 2014 by admin

The Defendant Shehzada Mufaddal Saifuddin’s advocate asked for more time to file their written statement. The Hon’ble Court has directed the Defendant to file his written statement by September 10, 2014. The matter will be listed on September 15, 2014 for “Framing of Issues”.

[End of post in http://fatemidawatlegal.com/]

While SKQ side had to file amended plaint by July 21, (one doesnt know when they indeed did that), the defendants lawyers were not ready to get a reply in order (in time for listing it tomorrow 9/9). They need another week to reply.
There are scores of mumin who have been left in limbo for months now due to the insensitive and callous attitude of Shz MS and Shz QJ towards the court case. They have purposely tried to elongate the court hearings , by not submitting documents on time..probably they have ran out of forged documents now !!
In Dawat's history we have seen that true Dais have left no stone unturned in front of emperors and even British judges to prove their legitimacy, because they cared about the dawat and they knew the importance of the matter.
But here , our wise Shz MS is busy hobnobbing around the world, least bothered about the case. Probably he knows that the more he elongated , the more he can carry on the loot. This procrastinating behaviour is not indicative of a true Dai.

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:46 pm**

MyVoiceAsAMumin survey results from www.mumineens.com are in the media in Hindustan Times and Mumbai Mirror.
For more details on the survey results, please visit the website www.mumineens.com

Posted: **Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:56 pm**

As the bundles of money flow to the coffers of administrative officials around the world to declare mufaddal bs the rightful Da'i, so do the venom and laanat parties. Attached is an audio of such a laanat party held by qaiid bs.
So apparently according to them, it isn't Syedna Burhanuddin who created the mazoon and mansoos, but the London Charity Commission and other officials around the world who will decide the fate of Dawoodi Bohras.

Posted: **Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:27 pm**

So is this why they had made people sign the declaration on the wajebaat forms.

Posted: **Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:01 pm**

Anyone knows who filed the initial request to London Charity commission?
Was it PDB or fatemidawat ?

Posted: **Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:54 am**

haqniwaat wrote:As the bundles of money flow to the coffers of administrative officials around the world to declare mufaddal bs the rightful Da'i, so do the venom and laanat parties. Attached is an audio of such a laanat party held by qaiid bs.
So apparently according to them, it isn't Syedna Burhanuddin who created the mazoon and mansoos, but the London Charity Commission and other officials around the world who will decide the fate of Dawoodi Bohras.

Do you/anyone know(s) which particular victory is Shezada Quaid Johar bhaisaheb referring to in this particular audio? What was the exact case and what got overturned?

And have a lot of such cases been filed? Are some particular acocunts oversees frozen? I would be good to get the facts.

Posted: **Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:18 am**

He's referring to the London Charity Commission declaration.

Posted: **Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:47 pm**

haqniwaat wrote:He's referring to the London Charity Commission declaration.

haqniwaat,

Thanks bhai. And any idea as to why did the London Charity Commission declared in favor of SMS and against Syedna Qutbuddin? What was the declaration and was it an interim one? Thanks in advance.

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