Dawoodi Bohra Forum

profastian wrote:

Smart wrote: @aqs,
What miracles are you talking about? A self proclaimed vicegerent of Allah, not doing his duty of daawat and allowing 99.99% of the world's population to go to hell, because of his inaction cannot be credited with miracles, but dereliction of duty.

Who said the others are going to hell
I see you are hallucinating again.
We never said the others will go to hell.(You wont be able to find a single reference)
We only said that we are going to heaven.

Oh! so where do the others go? Doesn't your belief say that you can go to the heaven only if you are permitted by the dai? If you are honest, you would not use such cheap tricks.

Smart wrote:

aqs wrote: i will not be in a position to discuss the fate of world population might be some knowledgeable people will be able to help you

I am not asking for your help. It is the other way round buddy, I am trying to help you come out from your delusions.

Thanks for your help, i will keep your generous offer in mind

Smart wrote:

profastian wrote: Who said the others are going to hell
I see you are hallucinating again.
We never said the others will go to hell.(You wont be able to find a single reference)
We only said that we are going to heaven.

Oh! so where do the others go? Doesn't your belief say that you can go to the heaven only if you are permitted by the dai? If you are honest, you would not use such cheap tricks.

Yes 'you can go to the heaven only if you are permitted by the dai'. But we don't say that you wud go to hell otherwise (you wud if you wud hate him though).

^
If they don't go to heaven, nor to hell, then where do these people go?

Smart wrote:^
If they don't go to heaven, nor to hell, then where do these people go?

arz kita hai...dhobi ka...............na ghar.........na ghat..........

you have a prog called insaap who has read majalis moiyediya and rahatul aqal the answers are there in those books among others,tell him to explain to you what happens to those people and progs when they die ,if he doesnt then wait to die and you will find out

guy_sam2005 wrote:

Smart wrote:^
If they don't go to heaven, nor to hell, then where do these people go?

arz kita hai...dhobi ka...............na ghar.........na ghat..........

I have a good riposte in mind, but would refrain from commenting.

guy_sam2005 wrote:arz kita hai...dhobi ka...............na ghar.........na ghat..........

Absolutely right. Which gheta... oops kutta goes where will be evident on the day of judgement.

the best person to answer what will happen to progs and others after they die is insaap,he has read great books which have this answers so the progs who want this answers should ask him or else wait to die and find out the hard way

behn saheba's response about the bhindi bazar project should not leave any doubts in the mind of aziz regarding the devious nature of this project unless he has a hand in the spoils and therefore wants to fight the truth all the way to the bank.

Hi All,

Just want you all to go throught this link.

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_c ... rk_1410869

It is not necessary that the underworld would be interested in improving the locality; officers feel they might try to stall the project.

We will have to see if there is any threat perception to anyone associated with the project and take precautionary measures.

So its good for the project....

Is underworld involved. I have heard that there was a meeting in dubai regarding bhindi bazar project.

accountability wrote:Is underworld involved. I have heard that there was a meeting in dubai regarding bhindi bazar project.

how do u know this ?

do u have any link with underworld?

hotsaif wrote:ps:kuran na kasam ppl like insaf engineer and this smart will b along with shimar and the group on the day of the judgement totally helpless!

Till now bohras were only told that the entry pass to jannat is 'ruku chithi' but it seems that ruku chithis also come in green, yellow and red (like safai chithis)..... probably this gentleman has got a green ruku chithi which elevates him to a higher position of munkir and nakeer, no wonder he knows everyone's 'hashar' in qabar.

Reading hotsaif's post above, proves that the establishment has nurtured non-thinking as a practice. No wonder, abdes are considered dumbos by others, not only reformists, but even the rest of the world.

BTW, there is a saying in India "Kauve ke shaap se gai nahi marti", meaning "the cow does not die if the crow curses it". Is this the best you could come up with, dear hotsaif?

Dear hotsaif,
Just cool down and think of the Panjetan Pak (A.S.)'s culture and the culture your present Dai has given to you:
Maula Ali (A.S.) and Imam Husain (A.S.) had Not used such words even for their murderers and worst enemies. It is because they lived for Allah and Islam and not for amassing wealth living in luxury.

Let me recall the story of a Jewish woman who always threw rubbish on Prophet Mohammed (S.A.) whenever he passed by her house.
When she didn't one day, Prophet Mohammed (S.A.) inquired why she didn't. He learnt that she was not well.
The Prophet (S.A.) went to inquire about her health and wish her well. She was so impressed that she accepted Islam.

The same was with Hazrat Ali (A.S.) as he grew in the care and company of Prophet Mohammed (S.A.). He never had any enmity with any one for worldly matters.
Talha-ibne-Talha was a bitter enemy of Islam. His exertions to harm Hazrat Ali are legion. He came face to face with Hazrat Ali in the battle of Ohad. Hazrat Ali dealt him such a severe blow that he fell down. Hazrat Ali left him and walked away. The Muslim warriors advised him to finish Talha. Hazrat Ali said: “enemy or no enemy he is defenceless. I cannot strike a man who cannot defend himself. If he survives he is welcome to live as long as his life lasts.”

So please follow the example of Panjetan Pak and do not be a slave of Syedna Saheb or his Amil's propaganda.

hotsaif wrote:its quite ironical in every generation and a lifetime daawats dushman(enemies) gets wiped off eventually and their situation gets worst than a hungry dog. why since panjatans zamaan and then imams and then duwaats every enemy has been wiped off and still u fools dont realise.u will burn burn and burn but it will to late wallahilazeem kahu chu!khuda na kasam the path u r on is worser than what yazeed was 1400 years ago!
abde syedna
ps:i can only pray for sooner deaths of u all if u cant come back......wallah in kabar u wud want to come out and shout and scream to people who have gone astray with the azaab u will have on u...but it would be too late and u wud just be helpless! imagine that plight...dosent it send shivers down ur spine?grow up guys and shut this nonsense and accept the truth like all other one million followers!
may allah gives u all strenght to change and come back!
ameen

ps:kuran na kasam ppl like insaf engineer and this smart will b along with shimar and the group on the day of the judgement totally helpless!

man who pour so much hate in your heart for fellow muslims? even if reformist dont agree with your idea how come you established facts that they worst then yazid and sheemar? avoid swearing on quraan this is the worst for a muslim to do.

S. Insaf wrote:Dear hotsaif,
Just cool down and think of the Panjetan Pak (A.S.)'s culture and the culture your present Dai has given to you:

Insaaf Saheb,

you are doing a disservice to Reformists also.

When you dont consider Syedna(tus) your Dai then you have gone astray from the official position of Reformists, i dont know how your fellow Reformists will take your stand as but surely its a bad PR for them

insaap before quoting moula ali sa .first think about calling those who usurped him hazrats ,,,which you do
and stop lies about rasullah sa and moula ali sa ,in those days if any body abused rasullah sa his death was ordered,you forget all this very conveniently like iblis that you are..

Dear aqs,

When you dont consider Syedna(tus) your Dai then you have gone astray from the official position of Reformists

Which of my words makes you think that, may I ask?

htosaif wrote:i have succesfully managed to bring 5 ppl back to our community who had gone astray reading nonsense over here and today they are so thankful and they have realised what a disaster their lives wud have been!
molanas miracles have opened their eyes but i told them blind faith as rasulillah mentioned 1400 years ago is most important in being a true mumin!

You deserve the title of "shaikh" for spreading and glorifying ignorance. Your masters must be proud of you. By the way, can you pls show where Rasulillah mentioned that "blind faith is most important in being a true mumin"?

Admin: I do not know what is the official policy of this forum regarding false propoganda. When some one is knowingly swearing on quran which is flase. This person wants to be the judge, prosecutor, and police at the same time. he swears on Quran that so and so will burn in hell, as though he is God almighty himself.

Though I appreciate his right to his own opinion, but he is not ready to concede the same to any one else. He has been falsely swearing on Quran a no of times. He brings Syedna Saheb's name in every post. He does not elobrate that what is dawat and its dushmani. He claims to own both the dawat and dushmani. Which he knows, does not belong to him.

Then he bullies others by swearing on Quran, and bringing in Dai's name, which is totally irrelevant. On this thread there is not a single post which is against dawat or dai. We have every damn right to question, who is going to finance 2000 crore, where the money will come from, who are the stake holder, how will it benefit common bohras, what is the need of undertaking such huge project.
How come our tiny community, most of whom reside in small towns in india be able the foot this big a bill. And if there are outside stake holders, why is not being undertaken as a development project rather than our community project.

We have taken misaq to abide by the faith as prescribed in our theology, no where does it stop from asking above questions. neither it constitutes dawat enomisity. Actually dawat's dushman are those who indulge in money laudering, corrupt practices, bribing, embezzling dawat's amanat, prosecuting summarily, insulting ordinary mumins and bringing bad name to dawat.

I totally agree with him that such dawat dushman should pay for their evil deeds, and may god be the ultimate judge.

But Admin is it proper to let anyone slander any one name and swear falsely on quran and act like god. which is blasphemous.

S. Insaf wrote:Dear aqs,

When you dont consider Syedna(tus) your Dai then you have gone astray from the official position of Reformists

Which of my words makes you think that, may I ask?

Insaaf Saheb,

I had quoted your comment before, here its again

S. Insaf wrote:Dear hotsaif,
Just cool down and think of the Panjetan Pak (A.S.)'s culture and the culture your present Dai has given to you:

Dear aqs,
Just cool down and think of the Panjetan Pak (A.S.)'s culture and the culture your present Dai has given to you:
Brother you are confused with the use of words "your" and "our". Since the gentleman in question has been influenced and has started talking like most Kotharis talk I have used the world "your".
Dai is an official position in which we all believe. But as Dai Ahmed bin Mohd. Neshapuri and Dai Sayedna Hatim say: "If a Dai does not posses the above mentioned qualities in reality and still calls himself Dai then he is Dai only in name without meaning. The assumption of the name of Dai for such a person is a Sin he is a sort of burden on the community without any spiritual benifit.

S. Insaf wrote:Dear aqs,
Just cool down and think of the Panjetan Pak (A.S.)'s culture and the culture your present Dai has given to you:
Brother you are confused with the use of words "your" and "our". Since the gentleman in question has been influenced and has started talking like most Kotharis talk I have used the world "your".
Dai is an official position in which we all believe. But as Dai Ahmed bin Mohd. Neshapuri and Dai Sayedna Hatim say: "If a Dai does not posses the above mentioned qualities in reality and still calls himself Dai then he is Dai only in name without meaning. The assumption of the name of Dai for such a person is a Sin he is a sort of burden on the community without any spiritual benifit.

Sir i will be one of the most cool headed abde you will ever encounter.

My Moula has given me a culture which i am proud of, he is the true vicegerent of Imam(as) and carries the legacy of Prophet(saw) and Panjatan(as) with him and same is imparted to his followers.

leave aside the seat of Dai do you consider Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin(tus) as Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

Dais after our 46th Dai are Dai-Nazim or Dai-ul-Mutlaq that is debatable. If you go through the history of 51st Dai for quite some years initially he himself never used the word "Dai-ul-Mutlaq. He has used either, Sadar Sayedna, Vada Mullaji Saheb or His Holiness at least till 1938.
I believe Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin is inheritor of seat of mercy of Imam. Whether he is using his position properly or misusing it, again it is debatable.

S. Insaf wrote:Dais after our 46th Dai are Dai-Nazim or Dai-ul-Mutlaq that is debatable. If you go through the history of 51st Dai for quite some years initially he himself never used the word "Dai-ul-Mutlaq. He has used either, Sadar Sayedna, Vada Mullaji Saheb or His Holiness at least till 1938.
I believe Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin is inheritor of seat of mercy of Imam. Whether he is using his position properly or misusing it, again it is debatable.

Insaaf saheb,

I simply asked you, do you believe

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin(tus) as Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

yes or no

Dear brother aqs,
As for your question:

Is Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (tus) Dail Mutlaq and true vicegerent of Imam or not??

Part -I

Please see the front page of a “Dastoorul Amal” (Constitution) for rich and poor Bohras constituted by Namdar Sakhidatar Seth Adamji Peerbhoy Rafiuddin Saheb Sallamullah-o-Ta’allah and made public by then 49th Dai, Syedna wa Molana Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb Sallamullah-o-Ta’allah, some 125 year ago. 49th Dawoodi Bohra Dai, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb was father of 51st Dai, Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and grand father of present 52nd Dai, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb.

From the cover page of booklet attached here you can very well see that:



1) There is no TUS or Dai-ul-Mutlaq after 49th Dai’s name.

2) There no claim of Dai being vicegerent of Imam in seclusion any where.

3) There is no Abde-Syedna before Seth Adamji’s name.

4) Sallamullah-o-Ta’allah is used both for Dai as well as common Bohra, Seth Adamji.

5) 49th Dai, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb used to stay at Surat in Devdi and Seth Adamji in Bombay in Peerbhoy Palace . So the booklet has ‘Press Line’ of Bombay ’s Al-Bayan Press.

6) Boldest letters are of “Sudhara naa Kaaydaa” – ‘Reformed Customs”, clearly showing that earlier Dais had no allergy or hatred with word “Reform”.

7) The reform was for the Bohras of the areas of Sir Adamji’s influence, Kathiyawad, Jhalawad, Halwad and Sorth.

Reason for the urgency of this reform was the incoming prosperity in the community at the threshold of 20th Centaury and lavish spending by neo-rich Bohras during marriages, majlis, fateha jaman etc on one side and acute poverty and indebtness of their Dai on the other side.

Dais before 51st Dai were so poor and helpless that in 1891 an Amil of 49th Dai, Sheikh Abdul Tyeb tried to put him in Jail for non-payment of his loaned amount of Rs. 50,000 given on simple interest amounting to Rs. 4000 – total Rs. 54000.

(Justice Martin in Chandabhoy Galla had observed that 49th Dai neither excommunicated this audacious Amil nor stopped his vazifa by Jamat and nor punished him. This clearly establishes that there was no concept excommunication or Jamatkharij and it is of recent addition.)

^ i can see you have put efforts to put this point out,waiting to read further.


but i cant make out your point,if u are trying to say previous dai didnt excommunicated people so present dai cant do it? i mean he is dai so i think he do have rights to impose new laws.