Questions for Team SKQ

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Bhai Humanbeing,

Well said.

And Adam, the point that unhappyBohra makes above is correct: If this is the proof, then I would tend to beleive the ex-Mazoom.

[Al Zulfiqar]

i have in a totally neutral manner and with a completely unbiased frame of mind, seen the original video posted on abde approved sites viz, maalumat, zeninfo etc to verify where and when the 52nd dai uttered in a completely clear and unambiguous way that he is declaring mufaddal as his successor. i have viewed this video atleast 50 times, at normal speed, slow speed, enlarged, sound enhanced and on different computers with special stereophonic systems attached, i have tried in every possible way to catch where the ex syedna says that he is declaring mufaddal as his mansoos.

i think i have a pretty good and sharp hearing, can catch even the most sensitive notes, being musically inclined and classically voice-trained as a singer, (sorry, didnt want to bring that in, mentioning it only to state my case) but no matter what, all i could hear was a great deal of cacophony from the assembled abdes and amtes drowning out most of the pathetic mumbling from the old and senile syedna, mumbling which is completely incoherent, as would be natural considering his highly advanced age and health, having just recovered from a most debilitating stroke.

just when it seemed that there was a slight gap in the ambient noise and his voice was gaining enough strength to say a few coherent words which he was struggling desperately to articulate, fumbling, his tongue slurring, the mike was literally and abruptly snatched from his hands by that rascal dr. moiz who then proceeded saying what appeared to be a 'completion' of the syedna's bayan, it clearly appeared that this whole scenario was 'staged'. mufaddal was already stationed on the right of the syedna's feet below the stage and kept doing sajda's towards his father for apparently no rhyme or reason much before the sorry old man even started saying anything.

i have carefully watched, analysed and studied this whole video, agonised over it in all fairness, shown it to others i trusted for their impartial judgement, but no one, not one, could honestly discern the words that the mufaddali camp ascribes falsely to his old and dying father. i came to the definite conclusion that this whole thing is a scam and a con of massive proportions, mufaddal and his brothers have pulled off a total deception, not only on the community, but even on his own father. they made complete and utter fool out of him. would you ever inflict something like this on your own father if he was almost a 100 years old, unable to comprehend his surroundings, unable to understand anything, at the very end of his life, feeble, ailing, unable even to sit and having to be strapped into his chair so he can be seen to be upright, just so that you can cruelly use him to usurp wealth and seize power, to hell with the old man? how can anyone accept this absolute deception being foisted on a trusting community, how can anyone believe that the syedna uttered with any degree of clarity what is being claimed? how can anyone tolerate the atrocity and cruelty inflicted on this pitiable old man?

i personally know of 2 of my close relations who stay in the vicinity of the raudat tahera and had attended this sham of a nassbandi. i asked them point blank (of course, most beguilingly) when i was in india recently whether they clearly heard the syedna say what is claimed, and they were most uncomfortable. after much cajoling and putting them at ease, they actually confessed that they did not hear these exact words because it was so difficult with all the feverish activities around the syedna, all the zaada's rushing around, commotion and air of excitement, restless people and naara baazi etc. but they had no hesitation in accepting what the 'higher ups' declared and when they said that 'nass thai gayi, mubarak', they just broke out into jubilation, maatam, gale lagao-ing etc.

as many have pointed out, mufaddal and his gang have since the nass and subsequent to the court case, gone into overdrive to entrench their lies and falsehoods. it is said that to hide a lie, one will have to build walls and more walls of deception around it. in normal circumstances and in the real world, such a lie would eventually come home to roost, it will be caught and the truth revealed. but in the case of the bohra community, even that will not happen. they are content continuing in their warm cocoons, with their social lives built around the markaz/masjid/jamaatkhana, attending their jamans, majlises, nikahs, misaaqs, gheebats, etc etc, the search for truth be damned! it is this complacency and lethargy which will and is costing them dearly. the community has an outward air of 'all's well" and superficial prosperity, but it is hollow inside, hollow, corrupt and decayed, with no spirituality at its core.

and then you have despicable charlatans and snakes like adam who come here and tout falsehoods, like the cunning snake which caused the downfall of adam and eve, he comes here to sell his poisonous lies, to take some more unsuspecting and complacent souls to hell with him.

i had kept out of this dirty nass debate uptil this time, considering it no longer mine axe to grind. i dont care for a community which is content being enslaved, manipulated, oppressed, looted and being made complete fools of, but i could hold back no longer, esp, when shaytans like adam can come here, arrogantly stride all over it and pretend that he can fool more people with his subversive tactics and seditionary arguments.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro AZ,

You have summarised the whole drama very eloquently and whether a few gullibles deny it outright or prefer to brush aside the whole drama due to their conditioning of a herd mentality and their concerns for being socially attached with the cult which supercedes the quest for knowing the truth makes no difference to the enlightened ones. Your views are echoed by majority of Bohras known to me and everyone is still in a state of confusion but the lure of 2 kharas 2 mithas and various social gatherings under the garb of Mohurrum tamashas, sitabis, darees, majlis, zikras, milads, urus etc prevents them from coming out in the open. The problem is that fear of Allah (swt) has vanished in Bohras as it has been replaced by fear of Mola and Mola ni khushi. They are now a spiritually bankrupt lot !!

[Biradar]

So, to continue the thread of thought which Al Zulfiqar has started. I took the Raudat Tahera video and first extracted the audio from it. It is easier on the senses if one actually does not have to do two things at the same time, i.e. seeing and hearing. Then, I used a audio filter software to filter out the background "white noise". I specially focused on the few minutes in which the Mr Muffadul gang say the nass was performed. I can tell you from very careful study of the tape, there is nothing audible at all in what SMB (RA) said. Nothing.

Even with all the filters for white noise, enhanced SMB (RA)'s voice I could not make out the mumbling of SMB (RA). It is clear he did not say what the Muffadul Mubarak gang claim he said. In fact, it is clear the Mr. Moiz BS was making up words and putting them into sayedna's mouth. It was clearly a conspiracy of epic proportion. One other data point is that Mr. Muffadul was standing right in front of this father, who failed to recognize him. Very sadly, it was clear that SMB (RA) was a puppet in the hands of Mr Moiz BS.

Also, another data point: if you notice Mr. Muffadul feels guilty and does not sit on the "sujni" set for him (which was placed there even before the so-called nass was performed) and tries to remain out of visual contact with his father. I take this as a sign of intense guilt he probably felt at the charade he and his minions were pulling on his poor, sick father. Of course, once one says a lie, then one becomes bold. Now that SMB (RA) had done his job of serving as a puppet, he was promptly made into a mannequin and paraded around at will by his evil and wicked sons when crowds were to be drawn.

Also, the so-called nass audio tape (without the video, BTW) which was shown much later, after SMB (RA) passed away. It takes < 5 minutes to replace one word in a long tape with technology which is available open-source to anyone and everyone. Really, TV stations do this all the time when they edit audio for a show. It is very easy. A question one can ask is why this was not shown earlier to everyone, and more importantly, why has this so-called audio not made available for analysis?

My analysis is that Mr. Muffadul thought the his father would pass away quickly after the stroke. So he quickly pulled the charade in Raudat Tahera, thinking that he did not have much time. Unfortunately for him, SMB (RA) survived for another two years. We all clearly saw how SMB (RA) was man-handled, paraded around, with false teeth shoved into his mouth, just to hide the glaring incompetency of Mr. Muffadul. Honestly, it was heart-breaking to see.

In fact, in one video, which was pulled after copyright claim by Mr Muffadul's Iblisi toli, it is clear that SBM (RA) is angry with Mr. Muffadul and Mr. Moiz BS and uses his hands to stop them from pushing him to perform the sajda on Ashura day. So sad and pathetic was the scene that Mr. Muffadul has considered it wiser to hide it from public view by claiming DMCA violations with youtube, than explain himself and his terrible behavior with his old and sick father.

Further, we see that Mr. Muffadul has continued to use copyright claims to pull down videos that show him as the fool and charlatan he is. If he really is the da'i, then he should have the guts to openly put the videos in which he does abusive behavior against his father, rails against women and tells men to punish their wives and daughters, etc. and then explain himself as the righteous da'i would.

He should stand by his words proudly, and not hide like a chicken behind copyright laws. Further, he should explain his dumb comments about who would receive Maulatona Fatema's najaat. (Answer: EVERYONE. Apparently Mr. Muffadul is not sure of this simple fact, which a madrasa going child can tell you). He should tell us why he told Bohras to snitch against their friends and family (about them drinking or smoking), when the clear Islamic thing to do is to hide a brother's fault and not make it public.

Now, I don't blame Mr. Adam or his kind. I also don't have any hard feelings against him. He is a victim of the institution of the Jamia, which the nefarious Mr. Yusuf Najmudin corrupted by his extremist and ambitious ego. A very clever thing which Mr. Yusuf Najmuddin did was to slowly, over several years, poison the minds of Jamia graduates and teachers to turn against the Mazoon saheb. It is obvious why: he considered himself to be more suitable for the mazoon's post and probably harbored intense jealousy of S. Qutbuddin from an early age. In fact, it is very likely, the Mr. Yusuf Najmuddin was jealous of his brother even while STS (RA) was alive. Hence, the evil seed was planted more than 50 years ago, during the time of STS (RA) himself.

I personally witnessed, very recently, an example of the poison which Mr. Yusuf Najmuddin spread in the Jamia. A young Jamia student (probably 20-22 years old) said in a majlis (last year, a few months before SMB (RA) passed away) that Mr. Yusuf Najmuddin used to tell them that those who trim their beards are like the ones who do jehad against the da'i! I mean, come on! First, Yusuf Najmuddin died long before this young Jamia puppy was even born. And to conflate one who trims his beard with those who fight the da'i, I mean, is beyond any rational mind can accept. Even the Prophet did not say such things! And how could he? The Prophet was a prophet of mercy and compassion and not angry, illogical outbursts.

Also, it is likely that STS (RA) made an explicit oral (or written) will in which he instructed SMB (RA) to appoint S. Qutbuddin as the 53rd da'i. This did not sit well with the other brothers, who did not say anything as they could not go against their father's wishes in his lifetime, but certainly planted the evil in their hearts. SMB (RA), once his father passed away, immediately followed his father's wishes and appointed S. Qutbuddin as his successor and made him the mazoon. I mean, S. Qutbuddin was the second youngest and there were many senior brothers who were also powerful. But he passed them over and appointed this young man as his mazoon. Why? Because he respected his father's wishes, appointed S. Qutbuddin as his successor in secret, but kept it hidden, knowing full well that his brothers would openly revolt if he made his nass explicit.

In this situation, given that S. Qutbuddin was highly regarded by his father, appointed and retained by SMB (RA) as the mazoon for 50 years (despite machinations of his brothers and nephews to oust him), one must believe him when he says nass was done on him. It is really that simple. The question of the meaning of a word in an obscure text, etc. are moot and perhaps of interest to those who wish to navel gaze and talk about Arabic verbs of type 99999991 etc, but irrelevant to others.

Now, one aspect of S. Qutbuddin's personality which does not serve him well in such situations, is that he is laid back and quiet and does not appear to do much. He has adopted a policy of quietism for a very long time, minding his own business and training his children and doing charity in a quiet and dignified manner.

S Qutbuddin is also probably liberal. I suspect he was exposed to parts of the more enlightened Ismaili literature, ilke the Rasail Ikhwan as-Safa, at a very young age, and its liberal message resonated with his young self, and he thought to model the community along its lines. This probably did not sit well with his other brothers, who, incidentally, are the antithesis of the liberal, open-minded, scientifically inclined Ikhwan of the Rasail. The author(s) of the Rasil would puke to hear the nasty, cruel and anti-intellectual words which come out of the mouth of Mr. Muffadul and his Iblisi toli.

In any case, I urge people here not to get distracted by minor details, like meaning of one word. Focus on the big picture. Think about who S. Qutbuddin is, and what he suffered for 50 years, but bore it patiently and quietly. Don't be afraid to come out and support him. It is not as dangerous a thing as you think it is. I mean, you will miss a few meals and invitations. But who cares! Good riddance, I say, to the nonsense accumulated in the community. Be free and think through things, and if possible, talk to your friends and family and make them see the fraud this charlatan Mr. Muffadul is pulling on their eyes. Be patient, and follow your heart and not your wife, brother, father, friend or uncles. It will help you go through this difficult time and come out stronger.

[Moiz_Dhaanu]

@Crater Lake

Please do share this Bayaan, as I would like to confirm how you've misterpreted it. Because I too have heard ...............
..........
Since there was only one person standing in front of Syedna Burhanuddin, I wonder who Syedna is giving the "Nass nu Taaj"? Hmmm. SO CONFUSING.

I see Adam is clearly skirting the fact that right after Burhanuddin Moula READ (not "said" - as he claims) the words "Mufaddal Bhai par nass nu taj" he broke through the fog of his ailment or whatever drugs had been administered to him and and questioned repeatedly about a name...His painful and let it be said - confused - questioning reflects his state of mind. A nass should be done when a dai is of sound mind and body. As Burhanuddin Moula was 50 years ago. That nass we believe. ......

Bro think_for_yourself has brought up a very good point that " A nass should be done when a dai is of sound mind and body". This is absolutely a primary requirement even for a worldly Will.
In the book Dai-mul-islam , syedna qadi noman has mentioned that all muslims should do their will while they are still in their complete senses, and in fact that Will does not count when a person does it under any mental incapacity.
So if this is what is said for a simple Will , one can easily deduce how important it would be for the health of the dai should be to proclaim Nass.
Any logical thinking person can tell what happened in Raudat tahera nass was under alot of questionable circumstances.

[think_for_yourself]

^^^Not bro, sis think_for_yourself.

[zinger]

So, to continue the thread of thought which Al Zulfiqar has started. I took the Raudat Tahera video and first extracted the audio from it. It is easier on the senses if one actually does not have to do two things at the same time, i.e. seeing and hearing. Then, I used a audio filter software to filter out the background "white noise". I specially focused on the few minutes in which the Mr Muffadul gang say the nass was performed. I can tell you from very careful study of the tape, there is nothing audible at all in what SMB (RA) said. Nothing.

Biradar bhai, will have to disagree with you here. you can hear the words "Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj" i took a long long time to hear it, but i did. believe it or not, even anajmi has heard it

Even with all the filters for white noise, enhanced SMB (RA)'s voice I could not make out the mumbling of SMB (RA). It is clear he did not say what the Muffadul Mubarak gang claim he said.

Disagree, read above

In fact, it is clear the Mr. Moiz BS was making up words and putting them into sayedna's mouth. It was clearly a conspiracy of epic proportion. One other data point is that Mr. Muffadul was standing right in front of this father, who failed to recognize him. Very sadly, it was clear that SMB (RA) was a puppet in the hands of Mr Moiz BS.

Agreed, Dr. moiz bhaisaab was reading from a piece of paper but Maula not recognising Mufaddal Maula is what you make of it. it is not necessarily true

Also, another data point: if you notice Mr. Muffadul feels guilty and does not sit on the "sujni" set for him (which was placed there even before the so-called nass was performed) and tries to remain out of visual contact with his father. I take this as a sign of intense guilt he probably felt at the charade he and his minions were pulling on his poor, sick father.

Again, you are drawing your own conclusions here. you have no proof of what you claim other than your own views

Also, the so-called nass audio tape (without the video, BTW) which was shown much later, after SMB (RA) passed away. It takes < 5 minutes to replace one word in a long tape with technology which is available open-source to anyone and everyone. Really, TV stations do this all the time when they edit audio for a show. It is very easy. A question one can ask is why this was not shown earlier to everyone, and more importantly, why has this so-called audio not made available for analysis?

Agreed, the screen going blank and hearing just audio, that too so many months later does indeed cast a huuuuge red question mark. the most obvious thing to do would have been to put this up on 18th Jan, when Ex-Mazun Maula made his claim. Again, this is something that ex-Mazun Maula would have asked for to be tested forensically, but he hasnt. makes one wonder why

My analysis is that Mr. Muffadul thought the his father would pass away quickly after the stroke. So he quickly pulled the charade in Raudat Tahera, thinking that he did not have much time. Unfortunately for him, SMB (RA) survived for another two years.

Again, since this is just your personal opinion, im glad you have made that clear

We all clearly saw how SMB (RA) was man-handled, paraded around, with false teeth shoved into his mouth, just to hide the glaring incompetency of Mr. Muffadul. Honestly, it was heart-breaking to see.

yes, you are right, but we Dawoodi Bohras are to blame for it. We kept clamouring to see our Maula, they were doing what we were asking for. agreed, it was for their own selfish motives, but we didnt let him rest in peace either

In fact, in one video, which was pulled after copyright claim by Mr Muffadul's Iblisi toli, it is clear that SBM (RA) is angry with Mr. Muffadul and Mr. Moiz BS and uses his hands to stop them from pushing him to perform the sajda on Ashura day. So sad and pathetic was the scene that Mr. Muffadul has considered it wiser to hide it from public view by claiming DMCA violations with youtube, than explain himself and his terrible behavior with his old and sick father.

Yes, we all saw the video and we were all left wondering what happened... it was definitely a struggle, Maula being made to do something against his wishes, but if you see it another way, it would look like Maula RA did not want anyones support when he went to sujood. Also, i always felt that you were one of the far more mature people here. seeing u use language like iblisi toli is not befitting of you

Also, it is likely that STS (RA) made an explicit oral (or written) will in which he instructed SMB (RA) to appoint S. Qutbuddin as the 53rd da'i. This did not sit well with the other brothers, who did not say anything as they could not go against their father's wishes in his lifetime, but certainly planted the evil in their hearts. SMB (RA), once his father passed away, immediately followed his father's wishes and appointed S. Qutbuddin as his successor and made him the mazoon. I mean, S. Qutbuddin was the second youngest and there were many senior brothers who were also powerful. But he passed them over and appointed this young man as his mazoon. Why? Because he respected his father's wishes, appointed S. Qutbuddin as his successor in secret, but kept it hidden, knowing full well that his brothers would openly revolt if he made his nass explicit.

yes, we too have often heard of this letter that Taher Saifuddin Maula had written to ex-Mazun Maulas mother, but perhaps its just an urban legand. if such a letter existed, it would have been made public earlier

In any case, I urge people here not to get distracted by minor details, like meaning of one word. Focus on the big picture. Think about who S. Qutbuddin is, and what he suffered for 50 years, but bore it patiently and quietly. Don't be afraid to come out and support him. It is not as dangerous a thing as you think it is. I mean, you will miss a few meals and invitations. But who cares! Good riddance, I say, to the nonsense accumulated in the community. Be free and think through things, and if possible, talk to your friends and family and make them see the fraud this charlatan Mr. Muffadul is pulling on their eyes. Be patient, and follow your heart and not your wife, brother, father, friend or uncles. It will help you go through this difficult time and come out stronger.

I know you will say this is not the reformist agenda, but you being a reformist at the ground level are atleast taking a stand, unlike the other reformists who are more content sitting on the fence waiting to see which way the wind blows, i respect you for that.

[anajmi]

even anajmi has heard it

I am not sure why I am the benchmark over here. You should've indicated that the hindu has seen it in a dream. Hence the audio and video has to be true. The hindu has much more credibility!!

And I am still trying to figure out how SMB's Nuss actually matters. It would if he himself were a saint. He wasn't. If he appointed his own son to his thrown, then that shouldn't surprise anyone, even if that son is a fool!!

[maethist]

Biradar bhai, will have to disagree with you here. you can hear the words "Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj" i took a long long time to hear it, but i did. believe it or not, even anajmi has heard it

zinger,

"Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj" is not a complete sentence. If you heard that, and only that, then it begs a question. You must provide a complete sentence which is postive. Are you sure he did not mean, "Mufaddal bhai, bring the crown" or "Mufaddal bhai, I am not giving the crown to you." Please supply the missing words to make a complete sentence.

The rest of your response simply says, "Biradar bhai, I disagree wth you. I have my opinions too."

[Adam]

@Zinger.
Thank you for versing out the issues.

Just a few additions.

Agreed, the screen going blank and hearing just audio, that too so many months later does indeed cast a huuuuge red question mark.

One of the reasons I have been told is:
The audio of Nass was taken BEFORE the video. As in. When the audio was recorded, Syedna Mufaddal and Shz Qaid Johar bs were not present. It was the Shzds and AQ Bs who were present and one of them recorded it. They did not take a video, probably because they were caught unaware? Or Moula RA wasn't in a condition suitable for recording (As he was in hospital)? Later on, during the video, preperations may have been made?

Yes, we all saw the video and we were all left wondering what happened... it was definitely a struggle, Maula being made to do something against his wishes, but if you see it another way, it would look like Maula RA did not want anyones support when he went to sujood.

That could be one interpretations.
The KQ site tries to make it look like Syedna was being forced against his wishes.
Why not look at it like this:
If Syedna RA was being forced, then (Nawozobillah) they would have forced (whatever they wanted to do), but instead, Syedna RAs gesture was enough for Syedna Mufadal TUS to stop, thus, Syedna RA was in total control, and not being used against his wish.


@maethist
I respect your thoughts.
But, "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj"
+ "rutba ma charahaya" + "hijabiyat nu rutbo" (was heard in Audio)
+ Dr Moiz Bs saying things right next to Moula in regards to Nass + (Moula not reacting negatively)
+ Shz Qaid Johar BS Shukr Bayaan about the Nass in front of Moula + (Moula not reacting negatively)
+ Past witnesses
+ Audio
+ Hospital Video = (Moula was fit enough to speak)
+ Nass document

vs
KQ + No evidence of Nass

I don't understand why no one on this forum questions the validity of KQ Nass. Is it just because they have so much animosity for Syedna Burhanuddin, that anything said against him and his True Mansoos is correct?
This Forum isn't an authority for sure. The court has already brought up this issues. KQ needs to prove his Nass according to Dawat doctrine. That's the only logical thing to do - and he can't.

[maethist]

I have personally not heard the audio nor seen the video. Going by the discussion on this forum, I conclude:

1. Since SKQ has no witnesses for Nass performed on him, it depends entirely on how trustworthy you 'feel' him to be. The court decides on evidence and since SKQ does not have any, he has already lost the case.

2. The whole set of audios and videos on which SMS's case is built, unsatisfactory as it is, clinches the court's decision in his favor.

3. Or, the court might just wash its hands off the whole affair and declare that it is not competent to issue any verdict on the case. The de facto control of SMS on dawat will then, by default, become de jure.

[kimanumanu]

I don't understand why no one on this forum questions the validity of KQ Nass. Is it just because they have so much animosity for Syedna Burhanuddin, that anything said against him and his True Mansoos is correct?

For the record, I don't have animosity for Syedna Burhanuddin RA. However, I can also not bear animosity to former Mazoon who was in that position for 50 years and until 52nd dai's last breath. You need to understand that I was not privy to the skeletons that suddenly came out after his passing. I had also not paid much attention to the Zahir Batin talk from Taizoon bhai. However, the way the nass was announced and the subsequent events after Syedna Burhanuddin's passing has left me with doubts. I have listened numerous times to the clear audio - repeat clear audio - and NOT the audio/video on YouTube where the audio is hardly audible, and it has not convinced me. It is your own decision to accept what has been put forward as evidence as signifying a true mansoos as you phrase it. I am not convinced and the actions of the other people including Shahzada Qaid Johar take me further away from being convinced. The language he is using is not one I would use with my own kids let alone other people and if that is representative of the new dai and what he stands for then I would rather not be in that "club".

[think_for_yourself]

I have personally not heard the audio nor seen the video. Going by the discussion on this forum, I conclude:

1. Since SKQ has no witnesses for Nass performed on him, it depends entirely on how trustworthy you 'feel' him to be. The court decides on evidence and since SKQ does not have any, he has already lost the case.

2. The whole set of audios and videos on which SMS's case is built, unsatisfactory as it is, clinches the court's decision in his favor.

3. Or, the court might just wash its hands off the whole affair and declare that it is not competent to issue any verdict on the case. The de facto control of SMS on dawat will then, by default, become de jure.

So why don't you take the trouble to watch the video and listen to the audio of the nass that was posted here before making a judgement!

Contrary to what you say, if the MS camp had to go through all this trouble to manufacture evidence, it sheds a doubt on their credibility. Lies of this nature are not befitting a religious leader. If you listen to the clear audio Burhanuddin Aqa RA is clearly in distress over what he is reading. What will become clear to you is that he was not even sure about the name he was reading, never mind that he was pronouncing nass on the person. He pronounced nass on Qutbuddin Aqa right after the passing away of STS RA. When he was of sound mind. Sorry Adam, all your charades are way too transparent Matheist? Really? Samjho to Samjho...

[UnhappyBohra]

Reposting the audio of nass posted by me some time ago. It was recorded by someone sitting close to a speaker in the Raudat Tahera drama and is of better quality than the audio that accompanies the video. I believe that audio accompanying the video was deliberately muffled in order to put a veil on Muqaddas Moula's state of mind. When one matches the audio with the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9wG2Irv-Q from 26:50, it is obvious that Muqaddas Moula is reading these words and then breaking through his fog briefly to question what he has just been made to read...

Adam I'd like to tell you exactly what you can do with your proofs but I have better manners than you. One can match this with the video that the mufaddalis have posted. Moiz bhaisaheb's blatant changing of the words uttered by our beloved Moula is at best careless and at worst an irreverant act and a malicious lie. Shame on him. Our Moula's state of mind and the fog of illness and drugs is evident. This was not a man performing the most important task of his life. This was someone being paraded about and manipulated to suit the agenda of the usurpers.

[Adam]

Biradar bhai, will have to disagree with you here. you can hear the words "Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj" i took a long long time to hear it, but i did. believe it or not, even anajmi has heard it

zinger,

"Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj" is not a complete sentence. If you heard that, and only that, then it begs a question. You must provide a complete sentence which is postive. Are you sure he did not mean, "Mufaddal bhai, bring the crown" or "Mufaddal bhai, I am not giving the crown to you." Please supply the missing words to make a complete sentence.

The rest of your response simply says, "Biradar bhai, I disagree wth you. I have my opinions too."

I forgot to add this.
The words quoted by you are not "Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj", it is actually "Mufaddal bhai NE nuss nu taaj". Thus the TWO possibilities given by you wouldn't be true.

Khuzaima Qutbuddin and his clan are just aiming to stain the Ala Maqam of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin and his memory. Shame on you'll.

[think_for_yourself]

Reposting the audio of nass posted by me some time ago.

Is this for the benefit of "matheist." I believe he may have already heard it....

[think_for_yourself]

zinger,

"Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj" is not a complete sentence. If you heard that, and only that, then it begs a question. You must provide a complete sentence which is postive. Are you sure he did not mean, "Mufaddal bhai, bring the crown" or "Mufaddal bhai, I am not giving the crown to you." Please supply the missing words to make a complete sentence.

The rest of your response simply says, "Biradar bhai, I disagree wth you. I have my opinions too."

I forgot to add this.
The words quoted by you are not "Mufaddal bhai, nuss nu taaj", it is actually "Mufaddal bhai NE nuss nu taaj". Thus the TWO possibilities given by you wouldn't be true.

Ummm perhaps he meant to say "Mufaddal bhai NE nass nu taj hargiz nathi pehnavu...

[kimanumanu]

Reposting the audio of nass posted by me some time ago. It was recorded by someone sitting close to a speaker in the Raudat Tahera drama and is of better quality than the audio that accompanies the video. I believe that audio accompanying the video was deliberately muffled in order to put a veil on Muqaddas Moula's state of mind. When one matches the audio with the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge9wG2Irv-Q from 26:50, it is obvious that Muqaddas Moula is reading these words and then breaking through his fog briefly to question what he has just been made to read...

Adam I'd like to tell you exactly what you can do with your proofs but I have better manners than you. One can match this with the video that the mufaddalis have posted. Moiz bhaisaheb's blatant changing of the words uttered by our beloved Moula is at best careless and at worst an irreverant act and a malicious lie. Shame on him. Our Moula's state of mind and the fog of illness and drugs is evident. This was not a man performing the most important task of his life. This was someone being paraded about and manipulated to suit the agenda of the usurpers.

Is this the only such recording available? What about the points in the video where the other nass related phrases were mentioned by Dr. Moiz? Are there clear recordings of Syedna Burhanuddin's (RA) voice at that time?

[Akhtiar Wahid]

I am sure they knew that some kind of nass dispute was going to take place, SKQ and Muffadal saab had already made their own ways during the hayati of SMB saheb.
But this video was clever stratergy for muffadal saab and company, what they did was recorded this whole nass drama in front of so many people to prove that majority of the dawoodi bohras were present and saw these nass conference in front of their eyes.
In court this is the single most powerful document to kill the opponent!

[Ozdundee]

Has SKQ established other than the philosophy of Nass , what else makes him eligible for the highest leadership position.

Surely there must be other criteria and qualities that need to be considered if a fair process was in place . How is he standing in comparison to SMS in those criteria.

[Adam]

@think_for_yourself

Ummm perhaps he meant to say "Mufaddal bhai NE nass nu taj hargiz nathi pehnavu...

[/quote]

Ha Ha! What a joke.
According to Islamic law, you must pass your judgement on what is said, NOT what you guess could be said.
You have no proof to your claim. Here is my proof:
- If, according to your statement Syedna Burhanuddin wanted to say those words, that means, he WAS of a "sound mind" (which Crater Lake denies). That also means you accept that he WAS AWARE of what was going on around him, and versed it out. So, if he was aware of all this, then:
1. Why did he call him close and place his hands on his shoulders and talk to him?
2. Why did he say "Rutba ma charhaya .... Hijabiyat no rutbo" when Syedna Mufaddal TUS was standing in front of him? - Why don't you "leak" that original Audio clip on this Forum as well? Scared?
3. Since he was aware, Why did he give the Shawl to Syedna Mufaddal, and accept the Salaam when Syedna Mufaddal TUS, according to you, was a conspirator (naoozobillah). He should have rejected him, or shown the slightest rejection.
4. Why did he listen through both, Syedna Mufaddal's shukr bayaan, and Shz Qaid Johar bs bayaan and not say anything after wards, except "khuda barakat apey"? Wasn't it Syedna's RA responsibility to clarify to him people and clarify the misconception.
5. IF, he had done a Nass on KQ without any evidence, and he knew a large majority of the people had animosity + he knew that the conspirators were staging a "New Nass", Syedna could have used this opportunity to clarify KQ's status. Why did he just say "Khuda Barakat Apey"? (This can be heard instantly in the audio and video)
6. He could have said "Khuzaima... Khuzaima... on the mic". Even that could have held some weight.
7. I have said this before, even though Rasulullah was very sick on his death bed, and was pressurized by the others, he NEVER did Nass on the wrong person and leave his people in doubt. Even through his illness, if "The others" came before him, he rejected them by turning away.

The evidence is clear as day.

And KQ's evidence is blank.


1. Syedna RA says "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu taaj" (while Syedna Mufaddal is standing in front

[think_for_yourself]

Adam, it was a joke. Don't write a thesis on it. Of course he did not mean to say that. He was reading from a paper and breaking through the fog every now and then but not quite coming out into the clear. I don't believe that he was aware of what was going on around him. I agree with Crater Lake that Burhanuddin Moula was not in a state to be performing the most important task of a Dai.

[think_for_yourself]

2. Why did he say "Rutba ma charhaya .... Hijabiyat no rutbo" when Syedna Mufaddal TUS was standing in front of him? - Why don't you "leak" that original Audio clip on this Forum as well? Scared?

These are the other audio clips I had received right after Raudat Tahera "nass." None of them offer a testimony that is any different from the first one I had posted - posted by UnhappyBohra earlier. These clips do not prove an improved physical or mental state of Aqa Burhanuddin RA. Also these are genuine recordings by an MS fan based on the file names...I had received these in June 2011. Not sure why anyone would be scared to post any of this. Only liers and cowards are scared of the truth - Adam.

And jumping up and down and shouting "Khuzaima" "Khuzaima" was not Moula's style. He always referred to him as Bhai so you are off on both style and substance.. He had done what he needed to do and he had left the rest up to God. You are so boring Adam.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

Trust me or not, believe me or not i swear to god i heard "mazoon saheb syedna taher saifuddin ne nass". Please i beg some audio expert decipher and enhance the sound clarity.

[haqniwaat]

The simple fact is that if mazoon's word is not enough, why bother having a mazoon.

[dal-chaval-palidu]

Good points put forward by several contributors - Birader, AZ, think_for_yourself, Haqniwat, Humanbeing, and others.

At a high level, I would say that it is 3 broad categories which are making me lean towards Syedna Qutbuddin:

1.) The changing stories of the nass after Syedna Burhanuddin's wafat - first it was only June 4th, 2011 and Raudatut-Tahera. Then, after Jan 17th 2014, it was 47 years back, with currently alive witnesses/witnesses not alive, 4-5 years back, to Maliqul Ashtar, and QJ, the written document, etc. And the various inconsistent statements. I have written before of that, and so have many others. In short, their changing stories of the nass put a doubt on their claim related to the nass.
2.) The lannats and other abusive language that was used. Should I expect that from a religious head -Dai, or his sanctioned agents? Those made me doubt the SMS side's story. And that also saying such things in a Masjid in the first 10-20 days of the wafat.
3.) Their own inconsistent statements - hame barrat karsu. Nathi kari (in reply to the courts). The harassment with burials, forced misaqs, hitting SKQ’s sons in Radatut-Tahera (have not heard that it was wrong from SMS – still waiting), etc. Quaid Johar bhaisaheb saying "The mazoom is my uncle and has faithfully served the dawat for 50 years " in his letter to the Hindustan Times in April/May 2013. Now he says in London that the Mazoom did adawat since 25 years. Okay, so you were not truthful in what you wrote to Hindustan Times in April/May 2013, correct? So why should anyone believe you in what you are saying now?

Each of the 3 categories above can be elaborated with multiple inconsistencies and many many examples. I hope it is done in the courts. Put together, that builds a highly plausible case that the truthful Dai is Syedna Qutbuddin.

[kimanumanu]

2. Why did he say "Rutba ma charhaya .... Hijabiyat no rutbo" when Syedna Mufaddal TUS was standing in front of him? - Why don't you "leak" that original Audio clip on this Forum as well? Scared?

These are the other audio clips I had received right after Raudat Tahera "nass." None of them offer a testimony that is any different from the first one I had posted - posted by UnhappyBohra earlier. These clips do not prove an improved physical or mental state of Aqa Burhanuddin RA. Also these are genuine recordings by an MS fan based on the file names...I had received these in June 2011. Not sure why anyone would be scared to post any of this. Only liers and cowards are scared of the truth - Adam.

And jumping up and down and shouting "Khuzaima" "Khuzaima" was not Moula's style. He always referred to him as Bhai so you are off on both style and substance.. He had done what he needed to do and he had left the rest up to God. You are so boring Adam.

Many thanks for posting these clips. I would like to request the Admin to create a dedicated/sticky thread where all these audio clips are kept for easy reference.

The lies are even more obvious with these clips. The clip where Dr. Moiz proclaimed that nass was done, Syedna RA was actually reciting "Ya Sayyeda Shohadai"! The other clip, he kept repeating "Syedna Taher Saifuddin" - none of these was mentioned. In fact, I personally think that he was referring to his own nass from Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA.

[Al Zulfiqar]

all the clever verbal and written calisthenics, acrobatics and cunning footwork from the poisonous snake adam and his satanic master notwithstanding, his repeated attempts at challenging people to bring forth 'proof' of kq's nass is exactly similar to the skewed defense put up by deeply patriarchal and male chauvinistic societies when a rape is committed on an innocent and helpless woman:

do you have eye witnesses who actually saw you being dishonoured?
can you prove that you are not lying, that you are not defaming our innocent and oh-so-virtuous brother?
prove that you are not after his money/wealth/fame?
prove that you are not being provoked by the alleged rapists' enemies, that you are not a pawn in their hands?
prove that you are a woman of clean character, that you are not covering up your adultery/debauchery/pregnancy by accusing our spotless brother?
prove that you were not seeking purely physical gratification because your husband is impotent/ill/abusive/absent?

here of course the accused is mufatlal and the victim is kq. but by a cruel twist of fate, the victim becomes the accused and the accused the poor, innocent victim whom the whole world is out to censure.

mufatlal and his slimy serpents like adam know that possession is 9/10 of the law. mufatlal is sitting like a coiled cobra atop his massive piles of wealth and he seems very confident that the hapless, violated victim will possibly never be able to bring the proof that the criminal is demanding from the rooftops. might is right, justice be damned. all talk of righteousness and fair play, conscience, honesty, integrity etc died with hussain. today's world demands yazidiyat with its concomitant display of money power, pomp, luxury and glamour, which is the right way, the lives of the ruling fatimid imams being a de' rigeur defense. so while the victim seethes at his own helpessness, the dastardly criminal mounts the pulpit to belt out emotional messages in praise of the raped and slaughtered!!

wah bhai wah, kya duniya hai..!

[Adam]

@think_for_yourself
Thank you for re-posting.
In the Clip " Nas + Moulaya Muffadal (TUS) Araz + Ijabat (2).m4a" please listen to the 52nd and 53rd second (52, 53, ironic:)
"rutba ma charhaya che".


1. Now, these are words of the Dai Mutlaq who speaks with Ilhaam, no matter what you may think of his words, they are not هزل (Senseless). If you believe so, then please reevaluate your Dawoodi Bohra belief. The same situation arose in a previous Dai before his demise, where he said certain words and did gestures, and the 'less learned' thought it was actions of a "old man".
2. It is every Dai's responsibility to clarify the Mansoos. If there were conspiritors and confusion, he could have clarified it. Which he did. He named "Mufaddal Bhai ne Nass nu Taaj", and later on says "rutba ma charhaya che". Yes, one may agree the sentences aren't one after the other, but certainly Khuzaima isn't mentioned ANYWHERE either? Adding to this the previous Nass, Auios, Documents and witnesses.
3. The person who posted this audio has deleted the part where Moula says "Mufaddal bhai ne Nass nu taaj" very clearly. It is clear in the video, so it would be much clearer in the audio.

@haqniwaat

The simple fact is that if mazoon's word is not enough, why bother having a mazoon.

Why don't you ask yourself the same?
"If the Mukasir words is not enough, why bother having a Mukasir"?
"If the Dai's words is not enough, why bother having a Dai"?

He did a clear Nass, mutliple times, and yet you want to believe the person lower than him.
The Mazoon is a Rutba UNDER the Dai. He isn't the Dai, nor the center of faith. That is only for the Dai and his Mansoos (whether the Mansoos is the Mazoon or anyone else), it was the Dai's responsibility to appoint the Mansoos and declare him, not the Mazoons.

@dal-chaval-palidu
The incidents of Nass have never changed. Most of this information was known before Wafaat. (Including the 1426 Nass, as it was alread mentioned in Syedna Burhanuddin's Risala).

[Al Zulfiqar]

it was the Dai's responsibility to appoint the Mansoos and declare him,

in which he failed horribly... he sat for 50 years on his throne, gaddi, palkhi, rolls royce, mercedes, first class plane sleeper seats, concorde suites, luxury cruise state room beds etc, and could not generate enough courage to carry out his responsibility and declare nassbandi in a clear, unequivocal manner.

even the imam failed him, choosing to disturb the senile old man suffering from alzheimers, dementia, a failing heart, spinal issues etc etc just when he was no longer in possession of his senses and could not interpret the imam's message in a coherent manner.

if there is such a widespread controversy, doubts and court cases because of the vague, unclear and forced declaration by the syedna, then the syedna has completely and utterly failed in his responsibility. either that or the imam who seriously erred in his selection of the appropriate time, minute and second to transmit ilhaams to his dai. but since the 51st dai had already confessed in court that the concept of imam, although fundamental to the faith, is merely a 'concept' with no basis in reality, and mufatlal, the 'rightfully appointed dai' (according to mountains of proof provided by the serpent adam) himself declared soon after his abbu's death that his father was in khidmat of imam, surrounded and witnessed by the PP, then it is clearly established that the imam is dead. no doubts about it. the proof has come from no less than the 51st dai and the universally recognised 53rd.

o adam, where will you run now? kaha chupega ay chor?