Dawoodi Bohra Forum

I tend to agree with Average Bohra, Oma, Porus and alike.

Anajmi, you have great knowledge, no doubt.

But we must understand that we have to challange everything. If people start questioning why interest is wrong in Islam, that is perfectly allright. Logic guides that there is apparently nothing wrong with that in this age and time. And as Oma has said, Anajmi, you cannot put Ayahs and Hadiths in support of everything you say as it becomes Taawil of Kotharis. The intention is to challange the Ayahs or Hadiths or their interpretation. And I must add, I ask today - why do we pray 5 times a day in certain fashion and way. Times have changed, do we really need to pray that way??!! Or can we come up with some different idea. The very fact that sun doesnot rise for 6 months in Antartica proves that current style of 5 prayers a day at specific times can be challanged.

abcd

That is known as Tejarat or Business in Islam. What is the purpose of business? To earn profit, and when the rate is too high it becomes expliotation. When some people control some things it is their Monopoly. And I assume Islam is OK with that.

Interest was forbidden in early days of Islam, because it was gravest form of exploitation. Even in later part, people use to pay interest only and their principle would stay as is. Today, that is not the case. I want to buy a house, I cannot as I donot have that kind of money, so I take loan, pay interest and get the house - so what is so wrong about that.

Qarad Hasna is a sham. They are able to pay or lend because they have the money from ordinary bohras who deposit their hard earn savings with them for nothing. Assume ordinary bohras do not have that kind of saving and cannot contribute towards Qaradan, how will they distribute?? Or assume they donot have sufficient moeny. Assume bohras find some other attractive way of investing. There is no concept of interest-free. And mind you, bohras are contributing to this Qardan with the sole aim of getting the loan - if very many people are being rejected, the scheme will die. The general feeling is that, say contribute 2000 per month for a year and then immediately apply for 3 times loan at the onset of year 2 - that is the consideration general bohras are contributing (but they all love to call it Sawab, Maula nee gurantee, duaa, maula na paisa and all that crap). And cracks have started appearing in various Qardan schemes in India and Pakistan.

omabharti,

Do you know what you become if you consider the quran and the hadith to be irrational? Yeah don't like it do you? You become a kafir.

JC,

You can challenge everything you want to. If you don't want to pray the way the prophet taught then don't.

Besides, I haven't met a single muslim who wanted to, but couldn't offer his prayers because the sun didn't rise in his home town for 6 months. I've met a lot who don't want to pray even if the sun rises and sets every 12 hours. Please spare me this "challenge everything" argument till you actually have a challenge that merits a response.

Anjami
I never said Quran is irrational, you like an IDIOT decided to put a fatwa, a typical TALIBAN tactic to call me KAFIR. LIKE I HAVE SAID SO MANY TIMES THAT NOT ONLY YOU ARE A MORON BUT A STUPID IDIOT

LIKE I HAVE SAID SO MANY TIMES THAT NOT ONLY YOU ARE A MORON BUT A STUPID IDIOT

I fully endorse !!!

omabharti,

When Ajami cannot put rational debate he starts posting "AYAHS" and Hadiths. So no debating with rational arguments with MORONS whether they are Aamils or Anjamis.

Read your statement once again. You said if I cannot come up with rational arguments, I quote quran and hadith. So isn't quran and hadith supposed to be rational?

Unfortunately, you probably won't get the point anyway. So keep shouting. Apparently that is the most rational that you will be able to get.

Brother ABCD,

As long as I know of Islamic banks, they help you buy commodity and a contract is signed in which it is mentioned that so and so commodity was purchased from the bank and money is to be paid in instalments.

They don't give you loan in form of personal liquid money which you might use for opening a bar, producing liquor or any illegal islamic activity.

Hence you can't help someone buy money in return of profit. But surely you can sponsor a project for someone for a return of profit which many bohras do.

Generally, when you put your money in the worldly bank, you don't know for what purpose your money is to utilised by the bank. The worldly banks use the money for producing unislamic goods or services.

Islamic banks tell you for what projects( sharia compliant) your money is to be used.

Humane,

I’m not a Muslim and I don’t take out an interest bearing loan unless the cash I would have used otherwise is earning a greater return than the interest rate.. Interest bearing loans should not be used to acquire something you could not otherwise afford unless out of necessity. Having said that, banking laws in most countries restrict the types of "commodity" a bank can own or sell. In the US, a bank can't buy a home and sell it to you unless it is a foreclosure. So please explain the following

Originally posted by humane:
As long as I know of Islamic banks, they help you buy commodity and a contract is signed in which it is mentioned that so and so commodity was purchased from the bank and money is to be paid in instalments.

Furthermore,

when you put your money in the worldly bank, you don't know for what purpose your money is to utilised by the bank. The worldly banks use the money for producing unislamic goods or services.

Islamic banks tell you for what projects( sharia compliant) your money is to be used.

Kraft products are popular in Muslim countries but they also sell Ham / Pork, Pepsi owns Frito Lay (and numerous other brands) that also sell pork products. I can give you a laundry list of popular brands in the Middle East and Asia that own and sell “un-Islamic good or services”.

So why this hypocrisy and innovation of convoluted schemes to re-classify interest as something which it isn't ? Just walk into a bank, Pepsi in hand, munching on Frito Lay Chips, chomping on a Halal Chicken Sandwich topped with Kraft Cheese & Mayo and get yourself a loan !

Be careful not to spill Heinz Ketchup on your new Polo Shirt though.

Average,

I don't think Pepsi or Kraft uses your money when you buy a pepsi or a kraft product to manufacture pork products. You already got your money's worth, which was not a pork product.

If you were capable of reading and understanding what was being posted I wouldn't have been a prolific member.

Originally posted by anajmi:

I don't think Pepsi or Kraft uses your money when you buy a pepsi or a kraft product to manufacture pork products. You already got your money's worth, which was not a pork product.

You are right, the 50c you paid for Pepsi is specially marked with In Wahabism We Trust, and the profits made on the sale are then divested by Pepsi from Frito Lay. The profit is instead used to loan Anajmi in the form of a loan for 82 million Pepsis which in turn buys him a house and the excess he pays over the value of the house is classified as rent, which in turn is not invested in Oscar Mayer. The profit from that sale is hence diverted to an investment in Abu Jalaal Halaal Meats (on Michigan Ave.) by Pepsi which in turn is deposited by Begum Jalaal in an Islamic Bank and all is Kosher, except that Abu Jalaal Halaal Meats uses a NCR cash Register !

Anajmi still goes to heaven with a non-interest bearing loan..

I may not be qualified to discuss tax laws and Islamic banking with you but I am definitely qualified to drive you towards insanity.

Average,

Originally posted by Average Bohra:

Originally posted by anajmi:

I don't think Pepsi or Kraft uses your money when you buy a pepsi or a kraft product to manufacture pork products. You already got your money's worth, which was not a pork product.

You are right, the 50c you paid for Pepsi is specially marked with In Wahabism We Trust, and the profits made on the sale are then divested by Pepsi from Frito Lay. The profit is instead used to loan Anajmi in the form of a loan for 82 million Pepsis which in turn buys him a house and the excess he pays over the value of the house is classified as rent, which in turn is not invested in Oscar Mayer. The profit from that sale is hence diverted to an investment in Abu Jalaal Halaal Meats (on Michigan Ave.) by Pepsi which in turn is deposited by Begum Jalaal in an Islamic Bank and all is Kosher, except that Abu Jalaal Halaal Meats uses a NCR cash Register !

Anajmi still goes to heaven with a non-interest bearing loan..

I may not be qualified to discuss tax laws and Islamic banking with you but I am definitely qualified to drive you towards insanity.

Brother Jc, I fully endorse your views.

Originally posted by Gulf:
Dear Newbie If you are looking for true answer on true kothari way...then I must say that quran is NOT the right book to learn and Imam Hussain is NOT the right person to emulate
thank you

Originally posted by

This is exactly what the kuwaiti dude wants to say.

Bro. Average Bohra,

I was just counting on the advantages of the Islamic banking.

1) An Islamic bank works like a private company, involved in buying and selling of goods and services with the concept of RENT/PROFIT but not with the concept of INTEREST. There is difference between RENT and INTEREST as RENT is not at the rate of certain percentage while INTEREST is.
RENT is once decided has to be paid in same amount along with the principal at whatever time without the impact of market fluctuations or the rate of interest changes in the economy while in INTEREST changes in the rate of interest by the highest bank will have its bearing on the payable interest.

2) They don't charge exorbitant profit as the Sharia body of the bank has set its own standard of charging profit in Islamic way and hence you ae not exloited which is not the case in the worldly bank,they charge sometimes extreme high interest rates.

3) Here, there is no way to compound RENT while there it's compound INTEREST.

4) Here your deposit money or invested money is used in Halaal business. You can monitor that too which not the case with worldly banks.

5) The profit earned by the bank at the end of the year is made to pay zakat which helps the needy. And then only the remaining profit is distributed amongst the share holders and depositers.

Humane,

Rent and Interest are not the same whatsoever, except in Islamic Banking. You did not respond to my post regarding how Sharia compliant Mortgages work. It is a subterfuge to avoid calling interest, interest.

Average,

As the quran says, people who want to justify interest will call fees, rent and even grocery shopping as interest.

The quran foresaw the likes of you long time back.

Anjami
Can U please tell us which Madrassah gave you the authority on QURAN and Hadith
Can you please tell us what are your qualifications
which justifies for you to call anyone who disagrees with you as KAFIR.
LATELY YOUR CO HORT MF HAS DISAPPEARED SINCE I ASK HIM TO JUSTIFY WHY HE DIDNOT STOP A DEVIANT MUSLIM SK MURTAZA AND SHIED AWAY FROM PERSUADING HIM TO COME TO THE RIGHT PATH.
We donot need Talibans on this board we have enough of them in Kothar.

ombharti,

YOU ARE AN IDIOT AND A MORON AND NOT QUALIFIED TO ASK ME ANY QUESTIONS.

I apologize, I just couldn't resist it.

OM

It can give his background.

He was born on the street of Bhandi Bazar in Bombay. Got his early education on the streets of Bombay. Then went to Haji Ali and got associated with Taliban scholars and converted to Wahabism. Came to US as a refugee. Somehow manage to get green card.
At present, working with Taliban Software Inc. as a tea boy.

OM

I can give his background.

He was born on the street of Bhandi Bazar in Bombay. Got his early education on the streets of Bombay. Then went to Haji Ali and got associated with Taliban scholars and converted to Wahabism. Came to USA as a refugee. Somehow manage to get green card.
At present, working with Taliban Software Inc. as a tea boy.

Originally posted by anajmi:
Average,

As the quran says, people who want to justify interest will call fees, rent and even grocery shopping as interest.

The quran foresaw the likes of you long time back.

Originally posted by anajmi:
I do have a car loan on which I am paying interest

You are hyperventilating; You have no credibility in this discussion. I think you should pay off your car note.

Average,

What I was paying on that car was simply fees.

Originally posted by anajmi:

You don't need 20,000 dollars to buy a car. I know a lot of dealers that give 0% loan on a car. I know a lot of muslim brothers who bought used cars so that they would not have to pay interest.

Originally posted by anajmi:
I do have a car loan on which I am paying interest

What can I say? It was a temporary lapse in judgment. May Allah forgive me for my mistake. I have asked Allah for forgiveness many times and since he is Gafur-ur-Rahim, he will forgive me Inshaallah. And even if he does not, I guess we will be together in hell for a few days. But you will never get me to justify interest. It is haraam and will remain haraam.

Anjami
Typical Taliban teaching
DO WHAT I SAY NOT WHAT I DO

omabharti,

At least if you do what I say, you won't be going to hell. But you are too stupid to figure that one out on your own.

This is the difference, I paid interest, realized my mistake and asked Allah for forgiveness. You deal in interest and the quran becomes irrational.

My *** is forgiven, your's goes to hell.

Anjami
How the HELL do you know that I am going to hell
And if you and the rest of Talibans are going to JANAT then I think HELL will be a better place.
Look at the current situation in this world
World is a beautiful place Allah created but the likes of you already made it a HELL

omabharti,

If you think you will be better off in hell then may Allah grant you your wish.

The current situation in the world is not because of the Taliban. If you hadn't been the stupid idiot that you are, you would've realized that.

Besides you wouldn't have been laughing ( ) that the world was HELL. Only people who are retarded do that.

You made the world HELL ha ha ha. Sounds retarded doesn't it?