Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Muslim First wrote:.

Imam Ismail (a.s.) bin Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.) died in the life of Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.)

So why Imam Ismaiil RA is called Imam. Was he Nassed Imam while his father was alive or Ismail RA was just eldest son of Imam as in present Bohra language just a Shahzada.

Did Imam Jafar RA pass a Naas on his granson or next son in line whic I believe was named Muhammad?

Wasalaam

Walekum afzal salam,

Imam Ismail (a.s.) is called Imam because he was Imam. Imam Ismail (a.s.) was appointed 'nuss' when his father Imam Sadik (a.s.) was alive and Imam Mohammed Shakir (a.s.) was appointed 'nuss' when his father Imam Ismail (a.s.) was alive.

Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) appointed both 'nuss' 'nuss-a-khafi' and 'nuss-a-jali' on Mola Ali (a.s.) appointing him his successor, Mola Ali (a.s.) did both 'nuss' on Imam Hasan (a.s.) and Imam Hasan (a.s.) did both 'nuss' on Imam Hussain (a.s.), Imam Hussain (a.s.) did both 'nuss' on Imam Ali Zain-ul-Abedeen (a.s.), Imam Ali (a.s.) did both 'nuss' on Imam Bakir (a.s.), Imam Bakir (a.s.) did both 'nuss' on Imam Jaffer Sadik (a.s.), Imam sadik (a.s.) did both 'nuss' on Imam Ismail (a.s.), Imam Ismail (a.s.) did both 'nuss' on his son Imam Mohammed Shakir (a.s.), Imam Mohammed Shakir (a.s.) did both 'nuss' to Imam Mastoor (a.s.), and so on....

Thanks and best regards,

S. Insaf wrote:Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer was invited to Berlin, Germany to an All World Inter-religious Conference on Islam, Islamic State and Governance by Friedrich Ebert Stiftung held on 16th to 18th October 2008. Participants from countries like Germany, UK, Italy, Netherlands, Sudan, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, USA, Canada etc were invited. Among participants were Jews, Christians and Muslims. Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer was requested to deliver inaugural address.
It being Friday all Muslim participants requested Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer to lead ‘Juma’ (Friday) prayer and deliver Khutba. There were several Muslim women who also prayed together with men.
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer in his Khutba spoke on the problem of Islam and Muslims in contemporary world and dealt with question of Jihad in one hand and of status of women in Qur’an on the other.
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer in his inaugural address spoke on the values of Qur’an and the concept of society, which Qur’an gives for successful governance. He spoke in particular about values of justice, benevolence, compassion and wisdom. Any government whatever its form must ensure realization of these values. He also spoke in the light of history and contemporary world.
Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer inaugural address was greatly appreciated by all the participants in the conference.
Prof. Zaid Abu Nasr who was earlier teaching in Al-Azhar and now teaching in Netherlands University embraced Dr. Engineer and congratulated him for his profound knowledge of Qur’an and Islam.
Compare this with the act of late Sayedna Taher Saifuddin who had refused to pray behind a Sunni Muslim Imam and also to lead the prayer in a Sunni Muslim mosque in Alighar after receiving the honorary degree of doctorate. Late Sayedna's had hurt the feelings of Muslims there and it remained a subject of discussion for long time.

Namaz (salat) is very highly prominent in almost all sect of true religion of Islam. A poet said, “Kar le vuzu na der kar, jaldi se aa namaz me. Bande se baaten karta hai, uska Khuda Namaz me.” Thus, because of Namaz extremely high prominence Namaz requires once best attention. And there is not an iota doubt that Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) who revealed the Quran; his Namaz (salat) is linked to the holy Quran.

1. In Namaz, in the position of standing and reciting Quran sura’t, Dawoodi Bohras recites “Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem” which is part of Quran, the first aayat of Sur’t Fatiha/sur’t Alhamd, and non-Dawoodi Bohras are deprived of this, they do not recite this aayat of Quran thus their recitation is incomplete. Individuals Namaz attendee are not allowed to shout during Namaz- Dawoodi Bohras Namaz attendee do not shout, whereas non-Dawoodi Bohras attendee shouts “Aameen” and there is no word like “Aameen” in the holy Quran!!!

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) Namaz is linked to Quran: “Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem”, is the part of Quran which Dawoodi Bohras recite and “Aameen" is not the part of Quran thus they do not recite “Aameen”. Whereas non-Dawoodi Bohras do not recite what there is in the Quran and shouts loudly what is not there in the Quran!!!

2. Military in any nation and historically is generally considered as a most DISCIPLINED institute. As life and death matter is associates with it. The universal practice in Military discipline in standing are two: Attention (Sawdhan) and Relax (Wishram). In position of attention (sawdhan) they bring their legs close together attached and keep their hands straight down. And in position of relax (wishram) they stretch their legs wider from each other and hold their hands.

As Namaz is of high prominence, “…Bande se baaten karta hai, uska Khuda Namaz me” and requires once best attention thus, Dawoodi Bohras the follower of Mola Ali (a.s.), while standing in Namaz, stands in the position of Attention (Sawdhan) and non-Dawoodi Bohras during Namaz stands in the position of Relax (Wishram)!!!

Dear Respected Gentleman Brother Mr. S. Insaf Sahib,

(I) As you have presented that post, is it possible for you to kindly clarify if Dr. Engineer Asghar Ali offered prayers as per faith of Dawoodi Bohras which is the way of Rasoolallah (s.a.): to recite “Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem” before reciting both Sura’t and not to shout “Aameen”, stand in the position of Attention (Sawdhan) and not in Relax (Wishram), and entering in Sujood from Rukoo like ‘Halal’ cattle and not like non-Dawoodi Bohras whose approach imitates that of all Haram animals like Pigs/Dogs/etc?

(II) One last humble and polite request: Is it possible for you to kindly clarify if the name of the book written by Janab Dr. Mr. Asghar Ali Engineer sahib is something like - “Quran ki Inklabi Tafseer”? If the answer in ‘No’ then kindly please ignore the following lines and if the answer is ‘yes’ then there is the biggest problem – ‘Inklab’ means that the existing is not perfect/outdated/not right and here is the NEW alternate which is otherwise.

That infers what all ‘Tafseer’ are in existence coming from Mola Ali (a.s.), Molana Abdullah ibn Abbas (r.a.), all Fatimi Imams (a.s.) and all true Dai’s of Fatimi Dawat are mazallah not perfect/outdated/not right and what Dr. Mr. Engineer Asghar says is better than all and is perfect and right!!! Before analyzing the house of Engineer Asghar version of Quran the nameplate on gate (Quran ki Inklabi Tafseer) displays that what is in the house, is not in the line with the Tafseer of Mola Ali (a.s.) and his associates.

Best regards,

Sincerely,

Mubarak

Dear mr. Insaf,
In continuation to the Muslim First post, posted earlier & the queries raised by bro Mubarak, can you clarify that whether practise of delivering khutba during firday prayers existed only during the times when Imam was not in seclusion & the same was abandoned during the time of Imam's seclusion?Bcoz i have always heard(no docmentary evidence is avaliable with me) from fellow people that the pratcise of khutba is not there in our community.

Dear Br. Mubark;

It looks like you are a Pucca Bohra and do not know anything about Mainstream Islam. When I go to Masjid which has no permanent Imam (Read here Imam=Prayer leader), we are led by people practicing various Madhabs (Mainstream Islam has 4 Madhabs). Some Imams recite Sura Fateha with Alahmodo Lillah---. In this case they recite Aoodho---and Bismillah silently. Some Imams recite Aoodho--- silently and start Sura Fateha with Bismillah---. Both ways are considered correct.

As far as your ascertain about Aamin please be informed that Mainstream Islam saying Aamin is mandatory after Sura Fateha. Some Madhab all Namaazi say it loudly. In India where Hanafi Madhab prevails it is said silently by all Namaazi. I will post some Hadith regarding this.

Please study other Madhabs and do not immerse yourself in minor matters and start negating prayers of other people. It is up to Allah to accept or reject prayers.

As far as I am concerned you are a Muslim if you stick to 5 founding principle of Islam. That is 1. Shahada 2. Salat/Namaaz 3. Fast 4. Zakat 5. Hujj.

You may add additional items (like Imamate or Tahara) if your faith requires but you cannot deduct or reject any one of the above five.

Wasalaam

Br. Fruits

AS

Here is information regarding 'Khutba'. This is for general information and I do not meant to desparge any other Madhab.

Language of the Khutbah: A Detailed Answer
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp? ... 0&CATE=112

There are other similar information of nate.

Wasalaam

Fruits wrote:Dear mr. Insaf,
In continuation to the Muslim First post, posted earlier & the queries raised by bro Mubarak, can you clarify that whether practise of delivering khutba during firday prayers existed only during the times when Imam was not in seclusion & the same was abandoned during the time of Imam's seclusion?Bcoz i have always heard(no docmentary evidence is avaliable with me) from fellow people that the pratcise of khutba is not there in our community.

Bohra don't pray Friday prayers. They offer four rakat zohor prayers. Even in Makkah they don't like to pray two rakat of Friday prayer behind the Imam of Masji ul Haram.

If you go through chapter of Friday prayer in Daim Ul Islam you will find the qoutes by Imam Baquir and Imam Jafar us Sadiq about the Khtba and two Rakat friday prayers. These practise was continued during the all Imams Eiter in seclation or otherway. However after the Assasination of Imam Aamir and declaration of Dai ul Mutlaq post by Chief Pontiff or Hujjah Sydetna Arawa ( Hurra tul Maleka) various amendmends and innovation were made in Ismaili Musta'alwi Tayybi sect. No need to mention the present era of innovation and shirk by existing leader and his father. Concept of Imam has been over exeggrated by the preachers in bohra community. They are in cashing the position and names of Imams for their own luxry. It is mentioned in daim ul islam that an fair (adil) Imam can lead the Friday prayer, as Imam is now in seclusion so question doesn't arises of Friday prayers. I have few question in my mind.

1. If Adil or fair Imam can lead the Friday prayer that means Syedna and his precedessors were not fair?
2. If Imam mean only the imam in Secleusion than there are further question that how one imam can lead the Friday prayers in differenct mosques all around the world at a time?
3. How come there is not a single fair person in one million bohra community?

Br. Mubarak

Here is Hadith on Aamin.

Saying Aamin Aloud —
Narrated Abu Hurairah: The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Say Aamin when the Imam says it and if the Aamin of anyone of you coincides with that of the angels then all his past sins will be forgiven." [I: 747 O.B. Sahih Al-Bukhari]

Allah’s Messenger, peace be upon him, said, "If anyone of you says, Aamin and the angels in the heavens say Aamin and the former coincides with the latter, all his past sins will be forgiven." [I: 748 O.B. Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Wasalaam

Namaaz

Rituals — Various Directives
http://www.ourdialogue.com/answers/arti ... ticle=2554

Regarding Bismillah

Al-Fateha
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3140363/Surah-Fatiha

Muslim First wrote:Br. Mubarak

Here is Hadith on Aamin.

Saying Aamin Aloud —
Narrated Abu Hurairah: The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Say Aamin when the Imam says it and if the Aamin of anyone of you coincides with that of the angels then all his past sins will be forgiven." [I: 747 O.B. Sahih Al-Bukhari]

Allah’s Messenger, peace be upon him, said, "If anyone of you says, Aamin and the angels in the heavens say Aamin and the former coincides with the latter, all his past sins will be forgiven." [I: 748 O.B. Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Wasalaam

Bro Muslim First,

Who is Abu Huraira or Bukhari? Mubarak bhai writes, quotes and say only things that was told, written or taught by his highness – Al Fazil, Al Mukkaddas, Ustad Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raj or Dr. Abbas Alwi or Imams of Udaipur mosques.

So, please do not quote the book he doesn't read and the people he doesn't know.

When he say you people are wrong that means you are wrong becuase you are not dawoodi Bohara (reformist)

Wassalam

Hussain_KSA: So, please do not quote the book he doesn't read and the people he doesn't know.
Mubarak: Personally do you know me very-very well? How can you say that what have I read not read, whom do I know and whom do not?

Hussain_KSA: When he say you people are wrong that means you are wrong becuase you are not dawoodi Bohara (reformist)
Mubarak:
Brother Hussain, I have presented three facts which can be visually easily verified by anyone without subjectivity whereas acceptance of Sahih Al Bukhari is subjective.

In Brother Muslim First post, he is quoting two hadith via Sahih Al Bukhari. My contention of not saying “Aameen” is in a particular context of Namaz and Brother Muslim First second hadith is in general context. FYI: In general context Dawoodi Bohras too strongly recommends saying “Aameen” but not in Namaz.

For your easy access kindly re-read those three facts in following post:

(I)
Namaz (salat) has very high prominence in almost every sect of the true religion of Islam. Rasoolallah (s.a.) approach was to like ‘halal’ and dislike ‘haram’.

In Namaz (salat), approach of Dawoodi Bohras to enter in ‘Sujood’ from ‘Ruku’ is: they will first keep their hands on ground and then their knees = exactly like approach of all ‘Halal’ cattle’s.
Example: Goat, Camel, Cow, etc

In Namaz (salat), approach of non-Dawoodi Bohras to enter in ‘Sujood’ from ‘Ruku’ is: they will first keep their knees on ground and then their hands = exactly like approach of all ‘Haram’ animals.
Example: Pig, Dog, Elephant, etc

Rasoolallah (s.a.) like ‘halal’ and dislike ‘haram’ thus, Dawoodi Bohras approach is that of Rasoolallah (s.a.) approach, and it is also similar to all ‘halal’ cattle’s.
Non-Dawoodi Bohras approach is NOT that of Rasoolallah (s.a.) approach, and it is similar to all ‘haram’ animals.

(One is right sect and rest seventy two or more are false. This simple and easily verifiable litmus test of Namaz approach filters one that is right. Haath kangan ko aarsi kya?)



(II)
Namaz (salat) is very highly prominent in almost all sect of true religion of Islam. A poet said, “Kar le vuzu na der kar, jaldi se aa namaz me. Bande se baaten karta hai, uska Khuda Namaz me.” Thus, because of Namaz extremely high prominence Namaz requires once best attention. And there is not an iota doubt that Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) who revealed the Quran; his Namaz (salat) is linked to the holy Quran.

In Namaz, in the position of standing and reciting Quran sura’t, Dawoodi Bohras recites “Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem” which is part of Quran, the first aayat of Sur’t Fatiha/sur’t Alhamd, and non-Dawoodi Bohras are deprived of this, they do not recite this aayat of Quran thus their recitation is incomplete. Individuals Namaz attendee are not allowed to shout during Namaz- Dawoodi Bohras Namaz attendee do not shout, whereas non-Dawoodi Bohras attendee shouts “Aameen” and there is no word like “Aameen” in the holy Quran!!!

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) Namaz is linked to Quran: “Bismillah hir Rahman nir Raheem”, is the part of Quran which Dawoodi Bohras recite and “Aameen" is not the part of Quran thus they do not recite “Aameen”. Whereas non-Dawoodi Bohras do not recite what there is in the Quran and shouts loudly what is not there in the Quran!!!


(III)
Military in any nation and historically is generally considered as a most DISCIPLINED institute. As life and death matter is associates with it. The universal practice in Military discipline in standing are two: Attention (Sawdhan) and Relax (Wishram). In position of attention (sawdhan) they bring their legs close together attached and keep their hands straight down. And in position of relax (wishram) they stretch their legs wider from each other and hold their hands.

As Namaz is of high prominence, “…Bande se baaten karta hai, uska Khuda Namaz me” and requires once best attention thus, Dawoodi Bohras the follower of Mola Ali (a.s.), while standing in Namaz, stands in the position of Attention (Sawdhan) and non-Dawoodi Bohras during Namaz stands in the position of non-attention (Relax (Wishram))!!!

One secret from the conversation between Allah and Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) during Mehraj.


During Tabook war, Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) left responsibility to manage Medina’s internal security on Mola Ali (a.s.). This war was fought against the Christians and without Ali (a.s.) Muslim troops came in severe peril.

In this ‘mushkil’ Prophet called ‘mushkil kusha’ by reciting “Naad-a-Ali”. Mola Ali (a.s.) at that point of time along with Molana Salman Farsi was watering plants and said, “Labbek ya Rasoolallah”.
Salman (r.a.) enquired reason for Ali’s (a.s.) statement as Rasoolallah (s.a.) was not present there. Mola Ali (a.s.) replied, “Though Rasoolallah (s.a.) is not at the spot but he called me for help so I am answering his call. Likewise any mumeen who will call me for my help then I will surely help that mumeen."

Brothers and sisters, it is the promise of Mola Ali (a.s.) that any mumeen calling for his help, will definately have his ‘Mushkil Kushai’

Rasoolallah (s.a.) was eagerly waiting for Ali's arrival and announced reward to one who first bring news of Ali (a.s.) arrival.

Molana Salman Farsi (r.a.) was first to found Mola Ali (a.s.) and seeked suggestions on Rasoolallah (s.a.)reward - should he accept or not. Mola Ali (a.s.) replied, “no”.

Molana Salman Farsi (r.a.) informed Rasoolallh (s.a.). Rasoolallah (s.a.) felt very happy and said, “Take this reward”. Salman (r.a.) didn’t accepted. Rasoolallah (s.a.) asked then what do you want? Mola Ali (a.s.) has made Salman (r.a.) understood what to ask, so on that line Salman (r.a.) asked to Aaka Rasoolallah (s.a.) that please tell me one secret thing out of the talk that was held between you and Allah on Mehraj?

Rasoolallah said, “Allah told me on Mehraj: Take a chickpeas and break in two, then break that one piece into four and then break that one piece into four again. The smallest size (60th+ unit); if anyone will love even that much small to Ali (a.s.), I will place him into heaven. And should anyone have even this much small hatred for Ali then I will place him into hell.”

Salwat on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) and his progeny

Imām Ja'far as-Sadiq was married to Fāṭima, herself a member of the Ahl al-Bayt, and a descendant of Imam Hassan (as).

Their two sons were Imam Ismā'īl al-Mubarak (the blessed) and his younger brother Abd-Allah. Following Fatima's death Imām Jafa'r as-Sadiq (as) promised he would never marry again.

Imām Ismā'īl al-Mubarak (as) was according to contemporary sources to have received the Nass, however he was believed by many to have predeceased his father, however we believe that due to the political climate he went into ghayba.

Following Imām Jafa'r as-Sadiq's (as) death, most Shi’a followers turned to the eldest surviving son Abd-Allah, who claimed a second designation following the one recieved by Imam Ismā'īl this is further proof that he was designated. Abd-Allah died within weeks of his father without an a male son to continue. Musa al-Kadhim was then chosen; he was the son of Imam Jafar Saddiq (as) through a concubine.

But Imam Ismā'īl's closest followers believed in his Imamate and followed the leadership of Imam Muhammad Al-Maktomn, who made peace with Musa Al-Kadhim, and left with a small group of followers, they are believed to have gone to damascus where they started a propaganda machine against the Abbasid state and would within a few generations found the Fatimid Empire. Truly remarkable people, who risked everything for the fight for social justice.

It seems that we all are comparing Burhan and his cult to Prophet, Ali, Hussain which is totally wrong..!!!

Compare them to Pharon, Ganges Khan, Nimrood, Yazid, Hitler ....... and alike and you will note that these people are far better ........

Look at the thread on Saifee Mahal - well, Kothar has it but it is far below what Yazid had.... Hitler had. Remember what was found from Nicholai Chowsisko and his wife of Romania!!?? Remember the palaces of Pharon and Nimrood??

So these guys are better off .......... they are considerate if we compare them to those whom they follow and practice.

Mohammad or Ali or Hussain are just the 'tools' in their hands - to make money, get power. Janat is the 'product' they are selling ......... Matam and crying is the 'advertisements' - so you see, actually they DO NOT have anything to sell, yet they are and that too at huge profits ......... in fact, they have not 'costs'..

There forefathers did mistake in 'killing' and 'crushing' Prophets and their ideas .......... these people are smarter .... they are 'selling' them...!!!! Sell them, sell their name, stories, pictures if possible...... MAKE THEM 'GOD' - the thing EXACTLY they DID NOT 'WANT' to .......... you see, they are making souls of Mohammad, Ali and Hussain 'CRY'..... how clever these people are........

Welcome back brother JC. Good post indeed.

Comparing birth

Mola Ali (a.s.) was born in Kaba “Lam Yalid ke ghar me Ahmed valad peda hoova”. Whereas, Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman were born as Kafir and practice ‘kufr’ and ‘shirk’ till later in their life they got converted in Islam.

Sword from Allah

In the era of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) only one man got the sword named as ‘Zulfiquar’ from Almighty Allah and that man was not Shri Abubaker, not Shri Umar and not Shri Usman; the man who got the sword ‘Zulfiquar’ from Allah was Ameer-Al-Momineen Molana Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.)

Shah-a-Mardan, Sher-a-Yazdan ku’wat a parverdigar,
La fatha illa Ali, La saifa ila Zaulfiquar.

(Mardan is name of a Jinn’s city and doesn't mean gents.
Shah-a-Mardan: Mola Ali (a.s.) is the emperor of Jinn’s.
Ali (a.s.) is Almighty Allah’s lion… Mola Ali (a.s.) is undefeatable/ Ali (a.s.) will always be victorious and there is no Sword like Zulfiquar.)

Salwat on Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) and his progeny

Mubarak wrote:Comparing birth

Mola Ali (a.s.) was born in Kaba “Lam Yalid ke ghar me Ahmed valad peda hoova”. Whereas, Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman were born as Kafir and practice ‘kufr’ and ‘shirk’ till later in their life they got converted in Islam.

It was not the place of birth but Maulana ali's qualities and love for Islam which made him so great in the eyes of Allah and so close to prophet.

I dont want to mention but check out where and when abu jahl was born?

jawanmardan wrote:
ām Jafa'r as-Sadiq's (as) death, most Shi’a followers turned to the eldest surviving son Abd-Allah, who claimed a second designation following the one recieved by Imam Ismā'īl this is further proof that he was designated. Abd-Allah died within weeks of his father without an a male son to continue. Musa al-Kadhim was then chosen; he was the son of Imam Jafar Saddiq (as) through a concubine.

I just cant believe this.
can you give any reference about the same.

Salaam brother feelgood,

Her name is Umm Hamida, most Ithna Ashariyya sources refer to her. I am going away for the weekend and try and respond with the sources.

Thank you Bro Hussain KSA!

Nobody doubts the qualities of Ali - even Sunnis call him 'Sher-e-Khuda' and do u all know the slogan of the elite commandos of Pakistan Army?? - it is 'Ya Ali Madad' ...!!!! So why are we debating Ali?? He is BEYOND discussion. He was a great man.

Having said that I would say Abu Bakr, Usman and Umar were also of qualities and had done lot for Islam. I respect them.

Now my questions to Orthos -

Why Ali sat in the cabinets of first three caliphs of Islam? Fought wars for them? Helped them? Surely it was not only 'taqeyat' or 'mulayhat' or 'siyasat'. To me, Ali was such a great person that he would die for principles but would not bend. He was a 'statesman' and not a 'politician'.

Why Hassan accomodated Mauvaya? Surely he believed in compromise and must not have found Muaviya so bad to curse him with Lanat-Ullah?

What was the relation of any of Hussain's wife to Yazid or his family or relatives? This I ask because in Bayans in Moharram, Amils say that Ali Akbar refused the offer of Yazid's army for pardon and asylum when they told him he was amongst them. I donot understand that connection.

I have heard that some of Ali's daughter was married to Umar?

What I am trying to say that what I see is Amicable Relationship of Ali with Others. So why today bohras are so dead against first three caliphs??

Who is pristine muslim & who is not?

Dawoodi Bohras consider father and mother of Mola Ali (a.s.): Molana Abu Talib (a.s.) and Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) as pristine Muslim and Sunni Jamat do not consider father and mother of Mola Ali (a.s.) as Muslims (mazallah)!!! Dawoodi Bohras consider Shri Abu Sufiyan and his wife Shrimati Hinda as anti-Muslim whereas Sunni Jamat considers them as pristine Muslims!!!!!

On the ground of Uhad, Medina, Mola of Dawoodi Bohras’s: Molana Humza (r.a.) was killed by leader of Sunni Jamat: Shri Abu Sufiyan. His wife, Shrimati Hinda (L) chewed heart of Molana Humza (r.a.) but she suffered vomit, later she cut hands and legs of Molana Humza (a.s.), made a garland of it and wore it on her neck! Sunni’s leader Shri Abu Sufiyan rode his horse on the martyred body of Molana Humza (a.s.) and minced his body!!!!!

On the ground of Uhad, Medina, Mola of Dawoodi Bohras: Molana va Sayyedina Aaka Rasoolallah Mohammed (s.a.) was attacked by the leader of Sunni Jamat, Shri Abu Sufiyan and he martyred two teeth’s of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)

**************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

One day Aaka Rasoolallah (s.a.) not came back home on his regular time. Molana Abu Talib (a.s.) was worried. He was informed that nearby there is group of Prophet’s enemy sitting and seems to making some plot. Molana Abu Talib (a.s.) gave dagger to each slave and ordered his slaves that stand in hiding one slave per enemy, I am going to search for my brother’s son Mohammed (s.a.), if you see that I am not accompanied by Mohammed (s.a.) then kill those enemies immediately and if you see that I am accompanied with Mohammed (s.a.) then wait for my orders. Molana Abu Talib (a.s.) returned and Prophet Mohammed (s.a.) was accompanied with him, he approached that suspicious group of Prophet’s enemy and ordered his slaves to come out of hiding, he said show what you have hidden with you, those slaves who were numbered one per enemy shone dagger in the air, enemy was frightened, then Molana Abu talib (a.s.) warned that they never ever dare to plot against his brother’s son Mohammed (s.a.), today I found my Mohammed (s.a.) but if it happens that I couldn’t find Mohammed (s.a.) then remember these daggers will behead you all.

Salwat on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) and his progeny.


Rasoolallah Mohammed (s.a.) was orphan and his care was taken by Molana Abu Talib (a.s.) and his wife Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.). Molatina Fatima (a.s.) served Prophet like a mother – she cooked food for Prophet Mohammed (a.s.), combed his hairs, etc. When Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) died and Prophet found Mola Ali (a.s.) as sad, Prophet told, “O’ Ali, Fatima is not only your mother but she is my mother as well after my mother.” Prophet (s.a.) expressed grief on Molatina Fatima (a.s.) demise, he himself lay in that grave where Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) was to be buried, and Prophet gave his own ‘kurta’ to be used as coffin for Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.).

Who is Prophet Mohammed (s.a.)? Prophet Mohammed is “Rahmat’ul lil Aal’ameen”. He is sent as ‘Rahmat’ in this world by Almighty Allah. And his dress (kurta) is dress of ‘Rahmat’. On the day of Qayamat, everybody including all mothers will wake from their graves - all Prophets mothers will wake, all Imam’s mother will wake, all commoners mothers will wake; every mother will wake in their own dresses but, the mother of Mola Ali: Molatina Fatima bint Asad (a.s.) will wake in the dress of ‘Rahmat’.

Salwat on Prophet Mohammed (a.s.) and his progeny.

A lot has been said with regard to the 3 Khalifas and there are numerous hadiths and Quranic quotes which prohibits a true muslim to speak any ill of the Sahaba-e-Rasul s.a.w. Inspite of this, bohras continue to shower abuses and laanats on the respected people because of the history presented to them which is twisted and distorted to the maximum. They are injected with a heavy dose of poison against them. This is done with the sole purpose of creating a separate identity for them and keeping the divide intact. Bohras are restrained from interacting with the sunnis and no bohra ever respects any sunni muslim but sees him with an eye of contempt. They are looked down as lower caste people. I reproduce below an article which I found on an Islamic site which is self explanatory:-

Why Shia curse the wives of the prophet and his companions? The one who curses the wives of the prophet and his companions is:
Either an irreligious anti-Islamic hypocrite who make a defamation against them as a way of slandering the prophet and as a scheme to attack Islaam. All the founders of the Shia's movements belong to this group. Note that not any one of Ahlul-Bayt belong to those Shia.
Or an inattentive who follows his act according to one's own wishes and ignorant. Almost all the Shia today belong to this group.


Remember that Abu-Bakr and Umar were the closest companions to Muhammad as all references indicates and Allaah confirmed in the Qur'ân. His good treat to them is very well known to Shia. They were both fathers-in-law of the Prophet and his right hand. So, if the Shia claim were correct then we have three possible situations:

Either they were hypocrites and the Prophet Muhammad did not know that. This is a great insult to Allaah since he did not warn his Messenger from his closest companions.
Or they were hypocrites and the Prophet knew that. This is even worst since they are insulting the Prophet by claiming that he did not warn his nation from those hypocrites and he made them his relatives.
Or they were good Muslims and they went astray after his death. This is abandonment from Allaah to his messenger since He did not tell him what would happen in the future to warn the Muslim Ummah. How come Allaah who promised to support his religion and his messenger, make to closest companions to his prophet renegades and hypocrites?!

By insulting the wives and the companions of the Prophet clearly the Shia want people to say: "Muhammad was a wanton man among wanton companions. If he were a virtuous man then his companions will be virtuous people too." The Shia curse the Companions who are the righteous pattern to this Ummah and Allah bear witness for that:

(Some part is due) to the indigent Muhajirs (the Companions who emigrated from Mecca), those who were expelled from their homes and their property, while seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure, and aiding Allaah and His Messenger: such are indeed the sincere ones;
But those who, before them, had homes (in Medina) and had adopted the Faith, show their affection to such as came to them for refuge, and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves, even though poverty was their (own lot). And those saved from the covetousness of their own souls; they are the ones that achieve prosperity. And those who came after them say: "Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful." (Qur'ân Hashr: 8-10)

Contradiction in Shiaism:- Shia curses Abu-Bakr and his daughter Aaishah, the wife of the prophet , but they regard his son since he fought with Ali. So, they hate the best one in this Ummah after The Prophet and they regard his son who does not have any contribution in raising Islaam. Shia also claim that they love the family of the Prophet but they curse his wives who are the most important part of his family!

Why acussing the Companions (Sahâbah) of The Prophet is very dangerous? Because the Companions of The Prophet are those who are denigrating and demolishing Islaam. For, indeed, it is the Sahâbah (my Allah be pleased with them) who are the ones through whom Islaam has been passed down to us. So those people who curse and insult them, in reality, are destroying Islaam. During a class of Imaam Maalik, it was mentioned that the Raafidite Shi`ites curse the Sahaabah. In reply, he quoted the Qur'ânic verse, "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers and gentle among themselves. So that the disbelievers may become enraged with them." He then said, "Whoever becomes enraged when the Sahaabah are mentioned is one about whom the verse speaks." So, anyone who is enraged by the mention of the Sahaabah is a disbeliever, because the verse says, "…the disbelievers may become enraged with them (Sahaabah)."

Shia curses the Rightly Guided Khalifas (May Allah be pleased with them) :- If they had any sense, they would know and appreciate that they are in reality cursing the Holy Prophet himself. Abu Bakr and Umar were both fathers-in-law of the Prophet. Also, during the lifetime of the Prophet both were his right hand men; and after his demise, it is they who had great worry feeling for the welfare of Islaam. Who else has ever been honored with such a position and honor as was granted to these two? Again, it is these two who had always participated and had been with the Prophet during all the battles. These facts are enough to refute the Shia beliefs. As for Uthmaan, he was the husband to two daughters of the Prophet. It is clear that Allaah does not choose for His Messenger a son-in-law and companions except those who are the best. If the Rafidiya (Shia) are true to their claims, then could they explain why The Messenger did not forewarn the Ummah and clarify the alleged enmity of the Rightly Guided Khalifas (i.e. Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthmaan) towards Islaam? Allaah bears witness in the Qur'ân that Abu Bakr is a close companion to the prophet Muhammad by his saying:
"If ye help not (Muhammad ), (it is no matter): for Allah did indeed help him, when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion (Abu Bakr): they two were in the Cave, and he said to his companion, Have no fear for Allaah is with us." (9:40)


Shia curses Ali (May Allah be pleased with him):- Their insults and curses are not limited just to the Rightly Guided Khalifas but are also directed towards Ali. Because Ali himself, in Masjid Rabia, gave the oath of allegiance (bai'ah) to Abu Bakr and also gave his daughter, Umm Kulthum in marriage to Umar. He also willingly gave the oath of allegiance (bai'ah) to Uthmaan. Not only this, but he was actually the right hand man and a well wisher of the Rightly Guided Khalifas. So could Ali chose a kafir as a son-in-law for himself? And could Ali have given the oath of allegiance (bai'ah), as he did, to a kafir? Subhân Allah (Glory to God)! This indeed is a great accusation!


Shia curses Hasan son of Ali (May Allah be pleased with them):- Also, by cursing Mu'awiyah (May Allah be pleased with him), these Rafidiya (Shia) are actually cursing Hasan (May Allah be pleased with him). Because Hasan withdrew from, and gave up the Khilaafah to Mu'awiyah purely for the pleasure of Allaah. The Messenger foretold of this in the hadith. So can the grandson of The Messenger actually have withdrawn from and left the Khilaafah in the hands of a Kafir for him to rule over the people? Subhân Allah! This indeed is a great accusation and insult! If the Rafidiya say that Ali and Hasan were forced into doing this, then this is proof enough that these Rafidiya have no sense whatsoever. The accusations leveled against these two honored companions of the Prophet are the worst insults ever imaginable and are beyond belief. They should remember that Ali faced the unbelievers in Mecca face to face although Muslims were less than 40 man. So, why does he hide his Islaam when Muslims became the majority and why he does not face the hypocrites?


Shia curses Aa'ishah, the mother of the Believers (May Allah be pleased with her):- Furthermore, how do these Rafidiya curse and insult Umm ul Mu'mineen (mother of the Believers) Aaishah when Allaah Himself has mentioned her in the Qur'ân as the mother of the believers?
"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their (believers) mothers (as regards respect and marriage)." (Al-Ahzaab, verse 6)
There is no doubt whatsoever that only that person will curse and insult Umm al-Mu'mineen who does not consider her to be a mother. Because for one who does have a mother, does not curse and insult her, but loves her. Allah promised to give a great punishment to those who slander her:
"When you were propagating it (the slander) with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allaah it was very great." (An-Nur 24:15)


Imam Malik stated that anyone who slanders her should be killed right away because Allaah forbids us (in the Qur'ân) from it forever and because anyone who curses the Prophet Muhammad or any member of this family should be killed too. This fatwa was also issued by his teacher Imam Ja'far al-Saadiq. Allaah says:
"Allah forbids you from it (slandering 'Aaishah) and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers." (An-Nur 24:17)


Ali vs. Jesus :- Indeed, Christians and Shia are very similar as a way of thinking. For instance, Christians take their priests as gods other than Allaah. Shia also take their Imams as gods other than Allaah. Christians take Jesus as a son of Allaah then they describe his death on the cross as he is a weak man who can’t do anything to support his faith. They made him a target to every kind of accusations, mocks, and humiliations. Shia on the other side give Ali a higher position than the prophet Muhammad and claim that Islaam wouldn’t spread and unbelieving wouldn’t be defeated without Ali. However, the claim that he too was weak to defend Islaam after the death of the prophet Muhammad and he had to accept all kinds of accusations and humiliations against himself and against Ahlu-Bayt with no attempt to stop that.


Shia vs. Ahlu-Bayt :- All members of Ahl-ul-Bayt (the family of the Holy Prophet) belong to Sunni Muslims. Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq for instance, is the teacher of Imam Malik and Imam Abu-Hanifa. None of Ahlu-Bayt subscribed to the false beliefs of these Rafidiya (Shia). There are numerous solid arguments based on logic and Sharee'ah refuting their religion and false beliefs. These arguments are so many that it would be difficult to recount them all. Therefore they should repent from their false and unfounded beliefs and enter into the fold of Islam.
"They are the enemies, so beware of them. May Allah curse them! How are they denying (or deviating from) the Right Path." (al-Munaafiqoon, verse 4)


These Raafidi (Shia) actually descend from Abu Lu'luah Majoosi (a Persian fire worshipper) and Abdullaah ibn Saba' (a Jew). However they are more dangerous from the Christians themselves. Christians fight Islaam face to face (if they did) while Rafidiya stab Islam from its back.

Mubarak Bhai

Ye kya paagal pana hai ke aap ne "Shri Abubaker, Shri Umar and Shri Usman" likhte ho. Shri -Shir to Hindu ka Khitab he. Agar aapko Hazrat nahi likna ho to kam se kam "Janaab" likh le.

Mubark Bhai aap full of s***** ho.

Wasallam. Jao Bohre buccho ko Zahrili baate skhao.

JC wrote:Thank you Bro Hussain KSA!

Nobody doubts the qualities of Ali - even Sunnis call him 'Sher-e-Khuda' and do u all know the slogan of the elite commandos of Pakistan Army?? - it is 'Ya Ali Madad' ...!!!! So why are we debating Ali?? He is BEYOND discussion. He was a great man.

Having said that I would say Abu Bakr, Usman and Umar were also of qualities and had done lot for Islam. I respect them.

Now my questions to Orthos -

Why Ali sat in the cabinets of first three caliphs of Islam? Fought wars for them? Helped them? Surely it was not only 'taqeyat' or 'mulayhat' or 'siyasat'. To me, Ali was such a great person that he would die for principles but would not bend. He was a 'statesman' and not a 'politician'.

Why Hassan accomodated Mauvaya? Surely he believed in compromise and must not have found Muaviya so bad to curse him with Lanat-Ullah?

What was the relation of any of Hussain's wife to Yazid or his family or relatives? This I ask because in Bayans in Moharram, Amils say that Ali Akbar refused the offer of Yazid's army for pardon and asylum when they told him he was amongst them. I donot understand that connection.

I have heard that some of Ali's daughter was married to Umar?

What I am trying to say that what I see is Amicable Relationship of Ali with Others. So why today bohras are so dead against first three caliphs??

Salam alekum va rehmatullah,

Dear Respected Brother Mr. JC,

Humbly wish to share some of my kind thoughts on your queries; please find the same as follow:

In court of Mola Ali (a.s.) two contending ladies came claiming to be mother of an infant. When case reach a point of non-settlement then Mola Ali (a.s.) gave his justice to cut the infant in two pieces and give each lady a piece. When executioner sword was about to hit the infant, motherhood of real mother shouted “Stop” and urged that this infant must be given to other lady. True mother said, “Though I am his real mother and the other lady is not, then also give her my kid, he will be not with me, but at least he will be alive.”

In book ‘Vazkur fil kitabi Ismail’, a well recognized hadees of Prophet (s.a.) is quoted: “O’ Ali, I and you are father and mother of all mumineen, they among them are brother and sisters, their father is ‘Noor’ and mother is ‘Rahmat’. Hasan and Hussain are Imam-a-haq whether they stand or sit (whether they fight or otherwise) and their father Ali is superior to both.

Mola Ali (a.s.) is the real mother of all mumineen and to save the life of his infant (Islam infancy) Mola Ali (a.s.) sacrificed his right and let Janab Abubaker who was not the real mother of Islam to steal Ali’s kid.

Moosa (a.s.) was adopted as son by Fir’aun and his wife Aasia (may Allah bless Aasia). The real mother and sister of Moosa hided their true identity and went to serve needs of Fir’aun and Aasia in their palace of caring and feeding infant Moosa (a.s.).

Rights on Moosa (a.s.) belongs to his real mother but for safety of infant Moosa real mother sacrificed her right and let had Fir’aun claim as Moosa (a.s.) father unopposed. Her objective was to only serve Moosa (a.s.) despite she has to serve it under Fir’aun.

Mola Ali (a.s.) association with those three is equal to real mother of Moosa (a.s.) association with Fir’aun. Neither trio were parents of Mumineen/Islam nor was Fir’aun parent of Moosa (a.s.). Mola Ali (a.s.) objective was to serve Islam though trio enjoying caliphate; likewise real mother objective was to serve Moosa though being ruled under Fir’aun.

Please note that Mola Ali (a.s.) has fought for Islam and not for those three.

Helped them: true it is the greatness of Mola Ali (a.s.) that he helped to even those who stolen his kid (infant Islam). Even Mola Ali (a.s.) offered milk to his killer Ibn Mulzim (lanat).

He will die for principle: True, one day Mola Ali (a.s.) was passing a jungle filled with ants like creatures, they were carrying some food stuff in their tiny hands, Mola Ali (a.s.) pronounced categorically, that if I am offered all wealth and kingdom of world for snatching food from only one ant, then I will decline that offer and will not snatch the food from even one ant.

Salwat on Mola Ali (a.s.)

Even Sunni’s themselves do not consider Janab Maviyah in their list of ‘Rightly Guided Caliphate’. Molana Imam Hasan (a.s.) wanted to fight with Janab Maviyah but no one supported him thus he has to do ‘jung bandhi’ / ‘yudh viram’ with Maviyah on signed terms and conditions by Maviyah. As per signed commitment Maviyah has to hand the state to Imam Hussain (a.s.) on his death, but he betrayed and didn’t honored his words and appointed his son Yazeed (L) indeed!

May Almighty Allah bless all.

No one can deny the greatness of Hazrat Ali a.s. not even the staunchest of wahabis as no one is greater then Him after Rasul Allah s.a.w. There is not an iota of doubt regarding Hazrat Ali a.s. spiritual greatness, His compassion, His love for Allah and deen of Islam, His humbleness and the list can go on as it is unending. But the only wrong thing that bohras are doing is to lay more stress on laanats towards the other 3 khalifas and ummul mumineen rather then emphasising more on Ali a.s. great qualities and inviting more and people to follow His way of life. They use the method of cursing the other side in order to prove Ali a.s.'s greatness rather then the other way round.

It is a fundamental belief of not only Islam but all the religions in this world that cursing the dead is the biggest sin and to curse the sahabas and relatives of Rasul Allah s.a.w. is the greatest sin of all. If one believes in a different school of thought then fine with him, he may if he so pleases need not accept the good of the 3 Khalifas and not have faith in them if he so desires but why to abuse them ? Does one think that he enters into the good books of Allah, Rasul Allah s.a.w. and Hazrat Ali a.s. by doing this ? I think Hazrat Ali a.s. will more pleased if one follows Him and deen of Islam rightfully then by just showering abuses on people which does no good to anyone.

Now why people are encouraged to do so is for one to think with an open and unbiased mind. They have to understand the real agenda of the blood sucking kothar to know the truth. How can a rightful and honest Islamic leader encourage the divide in the Ummah of Rasul Allah s.a.w., inspite of he claiming to be the torchbearer of Deen-e-Islam ?

Thank you Bro Mubarak for you reply, appreciate it!

Thank you Bro Ghulam Mohammad for your input too.

I agree with Bro Ghulam Mohammad. Nobdoy is doubting Ali's greatness and his sacrifices for Islam and Mohammad. Even Sunnis or Wahabis - all agree to that. So what is the point debating or discussing something which is AGREED by all and sundry??!!

The point of discussion is: Why Shias or Bohras have to curse other companions of Mohammad, so such that they curse first three caliphs. If Ali worked with them, helped them, guided them, fought with them (for ISLAM, yes, I agree), Hassan reconciled with them, Hussain fought Yazid, and very rightly, as most Muslims agree to that - then why on earth Shias and Bohras cannot bury the hatchet and respect 'others' too. As Bro GM has put it, everybody is FREE to his or her opinion, if you donot want to believe in anyone, it is your choice, but you should not curse them. Ali could have easily sat aside and not do what he did - right??!!, but instead he dicided to work for the betterment and spread of Islam with others whom he considered thieves of his kid (as put the Bro Mubarak), so Ali was such a great person..... and what Shias and Bohras are doing who are supposed to be 'true followers' of Ali??!! exactly the opposite, they should 'work' with others, side by side, shoulder to shoulder, as Ali did, and that will make them even greater........ and not by cursing every now and then and repaetedly. Sow the seeds of brotherhood, forgiveness, togetherness, as Ali did ........

Coming to Kothar and Burhanuddin - sorry Bro Mubarak - they are exactly doing what you claim first three caliphs did and may be Yazid did. Look at the indicators - he is called - Dai Mutlaq, Bolta Quran, King, Sultan, he sits on 'Takahat', his family is 'Royal', his kids are 'Shahzadas', oridinary Bohras even cannot touch a 'shahzada' - is this the thing Hussain was doing??!! look at the life they live ............ and I can go on and on ........ this is nowhere near to what Mohammad, Ali and Hussain preached. Is not that simple to call Burhanuddin's sons as Quaid Johar Bhai or Sahab?? there are simple things they can do - but they won't ........ they are power and money hungry and they have NOTHING to do with Religion.

It is very easy to say Live Like Ali and Die Like Hussain...!!!
First, THEY should learn to live like an ordinary human being and learn to die as such...!!!!

Br. JC

AS

JK

Wasalaam

Thank you Bro Muslim First!

Bro Mubarak,

You did not answer:

Why Ali married his daughter Umm-Kulsoom (if I remember the name correctly) to Usman?

What was Ali Akbar's relation with some of family members of Yazid? and How??

Also, Why do Bohras call Burhan 'Dai-Allah' - there is NO such thing as Dai of God. To me, and I believe for all Muslims, there were only Prophets of God .......... even Caliphs were regarded as 'Khalifat-ul-Muslimeen' or 'Amir-ul-Momeneen' and NOT the Khalifa of God ......... every human being on earth is regarded as Khalifa of God. There were no Wasis of God, they were Wasis of Prophet ........... there were no Imams of God, they were simply Imams, call them leaders, scholars or whatever. A group of people (Shias) decided that will 'always' have a 'leader' from Hussain' decesandants and started calling them 'Imam' - and even in latter part Shias also divided as to 'whcih son' from lineage of Hussain is 'Imam'. IF God wanted to create a lineage, He would have done and 'protected it' but He decided not to ......... and HE kept on sending Prophets without lineage compulsion ......... so if God decides NOT to make lineage necessary, that should be sufficient enough NOT to bother about lineage. Having said that, if Shias or Bohras wanted to follow a lineage, I have no problems with that - and call them whatever - but PLEASE do NOT make them Imam or Dai of God.

There are so many others questions but I will rest my case for now.