declairing sucessor

[Aarif]

judging by your posts you are certainly not dawoodi bohras

Who according to you will qualify as a Dawoodi Bohra?

[incredible]

this should not be a reformist forum but dushamnos forum cause thats what you all are,judging by your
posts you are certainly not dawoodi bohras

So according to you any one who thinks with open mind and try to question is out.
Of fold of being dawoodi bohra?

Man u need to come out of your cacoon and see the world of Islaam u will find its most
Beautiful religion free from hate for any one.

[aziz]

a dawoodi bohra is a follower of panjatan ,imams, and duats starting from rasullah sa to imam hussein sa,then imams in his nasl up to imam tayyeb as and when he went seclusion, syedna zoeb the first dai up to now syedna moulana burhanuddin tus the present 52nd dail mutlaq ,so if you follow all this chain from rasullah sa and you give misaq to aqa moula tus and he accepts your misaq then and only then you are a dawoodi bohra...otherwise you can only claim to be a dawoodi bohra like the progs do but in their heart there is adawat and hatred for the dai,,,,
incredible should read the posts of the progs first to find out who has the most hatred in their hearts the orthos or the progs,,,,,incredibly you will find you were wrong

[Conscíous]

"Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul." Walt Whitman

[Aarif]

so if you follow all this chain from rasullah sa and you give misaq to aqa moula tus and he accepts your misaq then and only then you are a dawoodi bohra...

According to me Syedna is suppose to be a follower of Islam. Now having said that, Islam strictly prohibits, self glorification, raising oneself to the status of Allah, making people bow down before a human being, selling Jannat to fellow humans and so on and so forth. Now please tell me that if the Dai who is suppose to be a prime follower of Islam does things which defy the basic and fundamental principles of Islam than what should a thinking self-conscious Dawoodi Bohra do? Should he give up the Islam preached by Prophet, Moulana Ali and various Imams in lieu of Islam taught by Syedna? Should he give up being a good Muslim in leiu of being an abde Syedna? Please be honest while replying..

[Aarif]

"Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul." Walt Whitman

good one Boom.. But the basic problem is in today's world very few people have a soul...

[Conscíous]

Thanks Aarif.. I agree ^^

[profastian]

"Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul." Walt Whitman

ditto

[profastian]

Now having said that, Islam strictly prohibits, self glorification, .

The prophet did plenty of that.

[incredible]

Now having said that, Islam strictly prohibits, self glorification, .

The prophet did plenty of that.

can you quote any statement by Muhammed(saw) about his self glorification.

[aziz]

one statement on ghadire says it all " man kunto moulahu fahaza aliyun moula" and tell your aalim insaap to say what they next words of the prophet were concerning moula ali sa ,if he is free from praising the so called hazrats ... the next words of the prophet about moula ali sa apply to all his progeny the imams and in their abscence to all duats from syedan zoeb to present dail mutlaq,,
but first show me where islam has prohibited what your claim is

[aziz]

if you think that the dawoodi bohras under the guidance and leadership of syedna tus are not following true islam as per your interpretation then you have brains ,freedom and possibly even choice to follow your heart and move off or away,why do you spend so much energy trying to reform what you will never be able to achieve or do, leave us abdes with our moula tus .... but that is not your agenda so what is it

[incredible]

if you think that the dawoodi bohras under the guidance and leadership of syedna tus are not following true islam as per your interpretation then you have brains ,freedom and possibly even choice to follow your heart and move off or away,why do you spend so much energy trying to reform what you will never be able to achieve or do, leave us abdes with our moula tus .... but that is not your agenda so what is it

frankly speaking i have nothing to do with reform movement i dont even know whats there agenda and what they trying to reform,but my interest is islaam and innocent people of dawoodi bohra community who are being molested(Annoy continually or chronically) by local authorities in the name of ISLAAM.


may be u dont realize but u sound like jahiliya of mecca telling to Muhammed(saw) to leave them alone doing idol worship and dont try to reform them islamically.some times i think people like you do they even understand what islaam is? do they have ever try to read Quraan ? and try to understand what islaam stands for?

[Conscíous]

aziz,
if you think that the dawoodi bohras under the guidance and leadership of syedna tus are not following true islam as per your interpretation then you have brains ( So do you ) ,freedom and possibly even choice to follow your heart and move off or away ( Oh really?? ),why do you spend so much energy ( I don't ) trying to reform what you will never be able to achieve or do ( That is only your wishful thinking ), leave us abdes with our moula tus ( Give me back my family & I'll leave you ALL alone ).... but that is not your agenda so what is it (to spread awareness)

[aziz]

yes we are using our brains and staying with moula tus,...you may use yours to stay away or whatever,,as for your family are they in some kind of bohra jail that you want them back,,,,and the last thing we want is awareness from somebody who is lost and has no idea why he was born in the first place ,that answer insaap will be able to give you he has read all dawoodi bohra books

[aziz]

your family has made the choice probably to remain in the fold,so they used their brains and chose ,you chose something else so live with it,, one thing is for sure the progs will never never never succeed no matter how much you try ,people like you have come and gone but dawat and moula remains and your hatred for him one day will bring you just desserts

[mumin]

this is not a dushmano forum. speak the facts. There are two dai's in India both claiming to be the rightful owner of the bohri religion. one is our syedna burhanuddin and the other is in godhra. and the dawat has had many splits in the past, cofused about who the real dai is. I have yet to witness any miracle of our present dai.

[incredible]

only Quraan can save now, i rest my case.......but i know u wont be allowed to read quraan so i have no hope.All the best

[incredible]

this is not a dushmano forum. speak the facts. There are two dai's in India both claiming to be the rightful owner of the bohri religion. one is our syedna burhanuddin and the other is in godhra. and the dawat has had many splits in the past, cofused about who the real dai is. I have yet to witness any miracle of our present dai.

omg another dai in godhra? whos that? and how many followers he has?

[Aarif]

The prophet did plenty of that.

Please provide some concrete examples..

[Aarif]

but first show me where islam has prohibited what your claim is

Aziz,

Do you agree that Islam prohibits its followers from doing sajda to a human being? I have seen children, women and men doing sajda to Syedna. Do you agree that Islam does not allow a person to equate himself to Allah? Syedna is precisely doing that by promising Jannat to his followers. He openly tells that I will hold your hand and take you to Jannat with me. Can anybody except Allah grant you Jannat? Can a mortal man like Syedna decide his own fate by assuming that he will go to Jannat without fail? Also, Syedna makes his followers pray two rakaat compulsory namaz for himself. Is this Islamic?? Where in Quran is it mentioned that people are suppose to pray two rakaat namaz for a Dai? The prophet never asked his followers to pray namaz for his health and long life. Anything that violates Quran or prophet's teachings is not Islamic.

[mumin]

fariad he dil walo. fariad he iman walo. there are two dai's one in mumbai and one in godhra, both claiming to be the rightful dai. There is no dushmani ,there is no hatred.the mumineen have a god given right to know the truth.

[Conscíous]

"azizwrote:
yes we are using our brains and staying with moula tus ( Stay.. I'm not the one telling you to leave ),...you may use yours to stay away or whatever,,as for your family are they in some kind of bohra jail ( Yes, Mentality imprisonment ) that you want them back ( YES ),,,,and the last thing we want is awareness from somebody who is lost and has no idea why he was born in the first place ( Again, that's only your wishful thinking ) ,that answer insaap will be able to give you he has read all dawoodi bohra books ( I don't know who Insaf Bhai is & never meet him.. but he surly does have a lot of knowledge )


"azizwrote:
your family has made the choice probably to remain in the fold,so they used their brains and chose ( You are wrong!! Everyone in my family were born into this cult.. They NEVER had a chance to choose & neither did I ) ,you chose something else so live with it ( I am & happy to ),, one thing is for sure the progs will never never never succeed no matter how much you try ( Try what? ),people like you have come and gone ( No doubt about that ) but dawat and moula remains and your hatred for him ( I DON'T HATE SYEDNA SAHEB, IT'S YOU, WHO WANTS ME TO HATE HIM..) one day will bring you just desserts[/quote]

[seeker110]

Aziz you only see one side of the street while crossing.Get real and try to eat at home with your family.Make sure the tv is off.

[aziz]

if you were born in a dawoodi bohra family ,you had a choice when you gave misaq ,whether to remain and follow or leave,,you progs are always harping about freedom so why dont you exercise it and leave the fold openly instead of remaining in and then whining about it lack of it,,, at risk of repeating myself again i say that you simply are not a dawoodi bohra if you are born in a dawoodi bohra family but you become a dawoodi bohra if and only if syedna accepts you as his follower,,so your family also has a choice whether they want to be with you or syedna and possibly they have made their choice if you do not like it, too bad,,,


where exactly is it written that islam has forbidden sajda ,if that was the case then sajda to kibla in a stone built masjid facing stone built kaaba ( by a man)thousand of miles away in some cases is also wrong,and where and when has syedna tus ever equated himself with allah or even the imam,he has never done that always he says he is mamlooko ale mohammed,,as for promising jannat all panjatan imams and duats have done that and it is always after saying that you have to follow shariat,that is part of his mission to save us and take us to jannat as it was of rasullah sa ,moula ali sa and all imams and duats,, even the pope promises heaven for all his catholics ,,

[bensaheba]

Dear All:

To put an end to all the discussion and verbal brick bat let me explain the concept of declairing a successor.
The declaration of a successor is done in two ways: 1) publicly 2) privately
1) publicly is when Syedna declares in a vaez, who is going to be his successor(mansoos) or the receiver of Nass.
2) privately is when the declaration is done in front of few chosen hoodood, it is written down and signed by the dai and all the hoodood present and in addition the hoodood that were present take an oath that they will keep it a secret by word and by action.
In such a case the next dai is revealed when he moves forward to lead the janaza namaaz of the dai who appointed him, and all those hoodood line up behind him without any dispute. This is done to protect the mansoos from attacks on his life by people of other camps and dushmans.
A Dai knows well all his duties and no one has the right to question what he should or should not do or what he has not done. He may have already done declaring his successor in private.
The private nass has many historical precedents and nothing new if followed now.

[mumin]

what is hudood and who is hudood or hudoods at the present time.

[Aarif]

if that was the case then sajda to kibla in a stone built masjid facing stone built kaaba ( by a man)thousand of miles away in some cases is also wrong,and where and when has syedna tus ever equated himself with allah or even the imam,he has never done that always he says he is mamlooko ale mohammed,,as for promising jannat all panjatan imams and duats have done that and it is always after saying that you have to follow shariat,that is part of his mission to save us and take us to jannat as it was of rasullah sa ,moula ali sa and all imams and duats,, even the pope promises heaven for all his catholics ,,

Excellent replies Aziz.. This was expected from you.. So now doing Sajda to Syedna is same as doing sajda to Allah facing Kaaba... If you can do one than you can do the other as well. And yes you are right when you say that prophets and Imams preached people that if you will follow Islam in a right way you will go to heaven. However, Syedna is not doing that. He is selling Jannat to his followers by charging them with exorbitant sums of money. No Imam or Prophet has ever sold Jannat to people for money. But your Moula is doing that. Also, can you tell me why Syedna charges lakhs of rupees for ziayafat? Being a relegious leader isn't he suppose to bless the homes of his followers free of charge? Why do people have to pay crores of rupees to invite him to their homes? Can you give me an example of prophet or any Imam who carried out this practice?

You can go through this link for your question on Sajda:
http://quranicteachings.co.uk/islam-explained.htm

BTW: Can you please tell me where in Quran or in prophet's teachings it is mentioned that you can do Sajda to a Dai?

And please do not bore us any further with your lecture on "Once you give Misaq to the Dai than you have to follow what ever he says".

[seeker110]

Its more like once you get Misak,you dont need Islam.

[aziz]

go to surat bakarah read about the part where allah orders all angels to give sujood to adam as and all angels obeyed but for iblis ,,,adam as was not allah,then read what it says about iblis who did not give sajda to adam sa,, tell insaap or engineer to stop behaving like the same iblis and tell you what they have read in the books they claim are authentic dawoodi bohra books about the position of dail mutlaq..and do not bring me quotes from sunni websites people who say rasulaah sa was an ordinary man