Re: loser progs shame on you
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:05 am
I partly agree and mostly disagree with your opinion. I m not a progressive or reformist community member, but being from orthodox bohra community, I personally too don’t agree with Dai’s few policies of regulating the community, secrecy of Imam being fundamental foundation of existence of bohra faith and other superstitions; tolerated, promoted or innovated in our semi modern community. I agree with existence of Imam but why such and so long secrecy !aligns wrote: But the issues progs have today are far different than that. Your elders were not against each and every action of Daai, they never questioned state-of-mind of Daai or presence of Imam, or superstitions in DB etc etc. But with times and with new generations, progs have become anti-DB in each and every respect. They want to oppose whatever DB does, and especially this so-called 'open forum' has become the vomiting gutter for all such criticisms and frustrations.
There is sense of confusion and denial in minds of bohra mumins on similar lines of objection and question raised by progressive members. Also different people have different opinion and depth of their doubts defer.
Progressive are openly challenging or admitting opposition to Kothari policies and regulations, but there are orthodox bohras likes of myself who are living a two faced lives of obedience in public and dissatisfaction in conscience. Before you call me hypocrite, please let me clarify. My practices and actions are limited or dependent to the extent of realization and learning of faith. Its very easy to say, no one forced me to stay in the community and practice what is not in sync with my conscience. But its easier said then done, any orthodox bohra very well know, how close knit community is. If one diplomatically leaves the community on disagreement, his /her family would be ridiculed and psychologically harassed for no fault of their own.
Calling this forum a gutter, shows your sense of respect for an opportunity provided to you for expressing your thoughts, any member who indulge in filthy language shows how badly their thoughts stink, more like a vomit.
Criticism and frustration is part of our lives, and suppressing them would only lead to bottling of pressure and one day explosion into anger and violence. Which has proved and will prove dangerous for priestly class.
Please define democracy ! If your understanding of democracy is limited to people coming together to cast votes to elect a leader on basis of popularity, then yes ! Islam doesn’t allow that.. But democracy is more than just elections. It is guided and regulated by a commonly agreed and inspired rules into a charter or constitution, which underlines basic human rights. Hinduism, Judaism, Christanity, Islam or many other faiths presented by one almighty on face of earth existed much before today’s countries were formed. These religions were gifted with Books of faith and rules to live by, they underline the very essence of human rights which humans have incorporated in charters and constitution of our countries today.aligns wrote: Islam never had democracy, and never will. In fact you cannot mix democracy and religion. If thats what you are looking for, you never gonna get it. If you don't wanna follow a religion/sect/subsect, just leave it. But you can never ask for it to become a political or democratic setup where you can create your own party and debate each and every small religious matter. The mistake that you are doing for more than three decades now.
Islam was presented with Quran and Prophet Muhammad was chosen by Allah to propagate the teaching of Islam in Quran. There were constraints, rules, limitation imposed on Prophet Muhammad too, he and early followers of Islam to the likes of Maulana Ali who lead the word of religion lived by its principles to set an example of leadership. They did not do as they pleased, but followed what was allowed in Quran as a constitution of / for muslims.
Islam is a faith of one god, one book, one religion. Creation of sect/subsect/classes is a political man made creation for good or bad, for organizing or oppression it depends on one’s perception. History of Bohra faith is standing example of how much politics has been played to survive and rule, where leaders have been murdered, poisoned, hidden and confusion over succession.
Prophet Muhammad and early followers / preachers of Islam, debated their way to winning hearts and invite people to Islam. What is right remains right universally and wrong remains wrong fundamentally.
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Orthodox bohra thinkers is ready to denounce democracy as non Islamic, but do you give a thought that, Bohra community is prospering in India and elsewhere under a democratic setup. The very Muslim / Islamic countries don’t approve, recognize or legitimize bohra community who claim to be rightful occupants of heavens. Nor has bohra community leaders able to convince Islamic government by their intellect or divinity of superiority of bohraism.
Very smartly, bohras are known as Shia muslim trader’s community originating from Gujarat as primarily hindu converts to Islam. This is what Kuwait Government identifies with. Sayedna saheb and his family is regarded as political guest due to sizeable presence of bohra population and amount of trade and commerce conducted by SME run by bohras.
Whereas in India or other democratic countries, Bohra community is allowed to practice, preach and prosper their faith. How this is possible ? if democracy principles did not exist as better / bigger good for co-existence and regulation of people. Would bohra community establish and live in peace, if there were no fundamental rights granted under democracy and constitution.
