Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Sceptical wrote:SKQ has lost.
99% of my relatives and friends are now convinced that SMS is the rightful dai after this video. I guess same thing everywhere.
Well played by SMS camp !

Waiting for a last update on fatemidawat.com

you, your friends and your relatives sounds like DOGLE log, jaha paisa aur power dekha waha palat gaye, on what basis they chose MS? and now coz of a manipulated video they again chose MS? what kind of joke is that?

you said u recorded video where is it? why not posting it?

Pardon me and I might be wrong, but here's my simple analysis

1. STS promises nass on SKQ after SMB
2. SMB blatantly betrays SKQ (i.e not even consult or inform SKQ about nass on SMS even if it was 30 years back)
3. Video of nass is presented (given its genuine) SKQ feels betrayed. Infact entire community should feel betrayed
4. SKQ waits patiently for 50 years
5. YN and SMS gang work tirelessly for the past 30 years to conspire and manipulate SMB to do nass on SMS and keep the daiship business in the YN bloodline.

As someone else pointed on in some thread. I do not dispute that the nass was not done or anything, but I have lost my faith in this community due to religion being run as a family business and kept in the same inbred blood line.

Sceptical wrote:SKQ hits lost.
99% of my relatives and friends are now convinced that SMS is the rightful dai after this video. I guess same thing everywhere.
Well played by SMS camp !

Waiting for a last update on fatemidawat.com

I have received an excerpt of the video. I am not sure what to make of it..

I would like to see what the qutbis have to say.

trvoice wrote:Pardon me and I might be wrong, but here's my simple analysis

1. STS promises nass on SKQ after SMB
2. SMB blatantly betrays SKQ (i.e not even consult or inform SKQ about nass on SMS even if it was 30 years back)
3. Video of nass is presented (given its genuine) SKQ feels betrayed. Infact entire community should feel betrayed
4. SKQ waits patiently for 50 years
5. YN and SMS gang work tirelessly for the past 30 years to conspire and manipulate SMB to do nass on SMS and keep the daiship business in the YN bloodline.

As someone else pointed on in some thread. I do not dispute that the nass was not done or anything, but I have lost my faith in this community due to religion being run as a family business and kept in the same inbred blood line.

I feel the same. The question is why Burhanuddin Maula RA did not perform Nass till 100 yrs of age? After London episod, Mufaddal Maula has assumed the power and responsibility whether ppl believe or not. After demise of SMB(RA) Mazun Saheb has assumed responsibility with asking ppl that I am telling the truth, would you believe? The difference is one is settled with framework, control, power and dedicated believers. Other challenges the strong and comfortable beliefs which is not only belief but the way of life. One is flat flowing river, other with the falls. Should I float or jump?

It is possible that Syedna Qutubuddin camp may not be saying anything as they may be advised by the legal team – as the court case is going on. Just a guess of mine.

And if the news that Muffadal Maula lawyers have “resigned” themselves are accurate, it may be that they were not happy about showing this audio/video while the case is going on – may be they (Muffadal Maula camp) went against legal counsel? Again, just a guess.

As for the audio/video, I heard/saw it at the Masjid. I posted before on this thread some of my thoughts. There is nothing in the audio/video that links it to that specific time (3rd Rajab, 19th night of Rajab for the matam, etc.)

And I think it may carry some risk. To invalidate it, you only need one critical inconsistency. If something like that is caught, that can be a big blow, for the video, and for the whole case. And for it to be right, everything has to line up. And the audio may lead to the question – if Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin could speak, even if not clearly, but understandable, why not say it on other occasions soon afterwards and clear the air?

But as other have said (Sceptical), they may be addressing a different constituency, and it is possible they may have succeeded there – that is possible.

For me, their ((Muffadal Maula side) saying in the court documents that there was no baraat and no intimidation – that turned me off. I mean, forced misaq, signatures, lanats, gibaat, disgusting emails, we heard them all – we heard “hame e ni baraat kari su” at the Azad maidan speech. The thing that turned me off is the following: Politicians do such stuff all the time. But I am having a tough time accepting as my spritiual dai, spiritual rehber (guide) a person whose side says inaccurate things in the court. I mean how can you guide us to the truth if you are not even speaking the truth (sorry, it pains me to say this) in a court filing. That bothers me.

I ask for forgiveness from anybody if I offended them, and I pray that Allah guide all of us (including myself) to the correct path (sirat-ul-mustaqeen). Ameen.

Sufi monk wrote: you, your friends and your relatives sounds like DOGLE log, jaha paisa aur power dekha waha palat gaye, on what basis they chose MS? and now coz of a manipulated video they again chose MS? what kind of joke is that? you said u recorded video where is it? why not posting it?

Who are you to judge me and my relatives??? I didn't say I'm convinced by this video. But just open your eyes dude ! This video is a smart move from SMS camp. Manipulated or not, for 99% bohras now, he is the rightfull DAI. Ask around you. Seems you are living in a black hole.

I hope SKQ will respond. That's why I'm expeting an update on his website.

@dal-chaval-palidu

Excellent capture of the feelings I feel these days for MS bs camp. I have been to each of the majlis and seen all the recordings and it disgusts me that they have lied about their actions on Mazum Maula. It's very hard to be in this community these days not knowing whom to believe.

Sceptical wrote:

Sufi monk wrote: you, your friends and your relatives sounds like DOGLE log, jaha paisa aur power dekha waha palat gaye, on what basis they chose MS? and now coz of a manipulated video they again chose MS? what kind of joke is that? you said u recorded video where is it? why not posting it?

Who are you to judge me and my relatives??? I didn't say I'm convinced by this video. But just open your eyes dude ! This video is a smart move from SMS camp. Manipulated or not, for 99% bohras now, he is the rightfull DAI. Ask around you. Seems you are living in a black hole.

I hope SKQ will respond. That's why I'm expeting an update on his website.

hey doodh,

where is the video u recorded in majlis? and yes I do live isolated from dumb abdes so I dont I know what they think about videos.

Sceptical wrote:I ve recorded the video/audio.
Will post it soon Incha'allah.

hey all I am not a regular to this forum but have particular come to search for the video as I have missed it too. but was shocked to see how much time and patience people have that the threads are going to amazing numbers.

Just think about it, the argument is whether we are SMS bohras or KQ bohras or maybe it can also lead to Alavi bohras. the irony is we are limiting our search to such a small issue. If we need evidences for such a thing don't we should first ask for proofs that whatever we have been preached about shia or muslims how much of that is true. I mean a religious matter of hardly 3 years old nass can have so much hidden in it than what should the history of 1400 years in differant part of the world coming to us here have. why are there no discussions happening that are we rightful by following Ali or should we have followed Abubakr as major part of the muslims follow. Are we rightful in converting to Islam a religion of differant geographic region.

dear all search for the bigger issues or forget these petty issues also and follow as you feel like without digging it so deep.

God knows why some of you think you can question SMB and his decisions. How do you know he did the Nass on KQ and betrayed him? What's the evidence? Oh Sorry he has signed document right? Wait.. And also a video of that private conversation of SMB on the day he was appointed mazoon..oh no. Doesn't he have SMB public ishaara.. Ah that's right! And SMS has... His word. Great. You guys are kamAal na detectives.. Really.

some don't even believe in SMB yet want to discuss the the rightful heir to 53... Ridiculous. Yes this is a public forum and people are free to say what they want but sometimes people themselves don't add up.

someone on this thread said that if Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin is haq na dai then why did he go to the court?..!..He should not worry about the worldly things like the property of dawat but should instead silently go on with his job of educating momin about deen & panjatan..etc..

Well,let me clarify that Qutbuddin Moula is indeed not after the wealth & properties of dawat.He did go to the court but that is for the Masjids,Madrasas & the various infrastructure of dawat through out india so that momin following him can use them.Gradually all people are going to move to his side as one by one people come to know the hidden fake stories of mufaddal bhaisaab & they start understanding the real motive behind all this.It may take time but whenever it happens then people will need the required infrastructure & that is the reason Qutbuddin Moula has knocked on the doors of the honourable court.It is also understood that the case filed will eventually prove who the real DAI is.For that will enable Qutbuddin Moula to use the properties & whatever money available in the dawat accounts for the upliftment of people.Yes you people may raise doubts whether he will do good for the people or siphon of the money but then you never know.He may actually do good for the people.Even when he was MAZOON he used to do lot of charity work for momins.On the other hand in the last 3 years what good work has mufaddal bhaisaab done?...for example you can see the state of SBUT project.Infact in the waaz on sunday (18/5/2014) he could not even spell the correct name of the project (ane je project che SBT su che naam SBUT ena ma je logo khidmat kari rahya che khuda eh sagla ne barakat aapjo).He fumbled twice or thrice before saying SBUT.So basically this is the reason Qutbuddin Moula has been to the Court.I have met him at his thane residence recently & trust me that they live a very simple life & when you see him there is a lot of calm & peace & his body language shows that he is least interested in the money of dawat for his own luxuries.

Umme darling sorry to break your heart....Naas has more to do with inheritance of wealth and power and less with dawa...they use religion to fool you so you remain faithful.

So SMB was so confident he would live forever that he only got succession confirmed when he was worried he was about to die from the stroke.

If he was that smart and could see such a day will come why did he not declare Nass and train Mansoos as his heir when he was alive and well and globe trotting 4 or 5 years ago. SKQ would have to have swollen

Llpppp
d his pride and accept the decision ...

He lives it in some hush hush manner and now there is doubts and suspicions .

But then SKQ would have got so angry that he would accuse SMB of betraying STS desires . This would put SMB in an awkward position that the son and Diai has gone against the instructions of a previous Diai and would damage his credibility and according to bohra ideology this is sinful So what SMB does he hush hush gives NAS to his son and he is now nowhere to be caused of double deal , SKQ is left hanging and fuming. He has all the right to fight for what was promised by STS .

SMS will not give in because he also rightfully has been given the title by the previous Diai .

What is strange that naive abdes and amtes cannot see through this mess. Both are right however SKQ is technically out because he was not appointed by the previous 52nd Diai but the 51st Diai.

Now another point SMB had no one but SMS to select what does this imply . SMS being so incompetent, petty, angry , money minded old fashioned son who lives lavishly and hunting , has absolutely zero leadership qualities such that I would not hire him as manager of a sandwich shop. shows the error or deliberate favouritism SMB made .

If one kept SKQ and SMS side by side and we ran a debate SKQ would win hands down in any theological debate or character. Yet SMB would select SMS . Why would he not be able to find the best of the best. Yet we want to protect SMB from blame . Why are abdes not embarrassed that SMS has been chosen. Just because he is the son of the 52 nd they want to overlook his deficiencies. Really are we that blind and deaf

haq_ni_dawat wrote:He did go to the court but that is for the Masjids,Madrasas & the various infrastructure of dawat through out india so that momin following him can use them..

Thanks for your response ! What is stopping SKQ and his followers from using the bohra property ? He believes he is the rightful DAI, walk out in open and march into masjids and markaz and conduct waaz and namaaz. Where is the jalaal and shaan that a DAI must possess ? he is rightful owner of the jaan and maal of bohras. What is stopping him ?

Legally speaking, none can stop them, bohra properties belong to trust to be used by bohras. If they are objected or harassed, then they can go to police and shower SMS camp with cases and FIRs.

Going to court is one fine move, make many many such more moves to claim your rights … Morever SMS is a “kind hearted” leader ! he will not declare baraat or cause any inconvenience ! he has already conveyed “ Gale Lagaavi Laise” then what is the fear ?

SKQ must come out and conduct waaz and daawa of his rightful claim, apart from court cases, he needs to win hearts too.

PAISA YE PAISA NAHI KOI AISA .....................

humanbeing wrote:

haq_ni_dawat wrote:He did go to the court but that is for the Masjids,Madrasas & the various infrastructure of dawat through out india so that momin following him can use them..

Thanks for your response ! What is stopping SKQ and his followers from using the bohra property ? He believes he is the rightful DAI, walk out in open and march into masjids and markaz and conduct waaz and namaaz. Where is the jalaal and shaan that a DAI must possess ? he is rightful owner of the jaan and maal of bohras. What is stopping him ?

Legally speaking, none can stop them, bohra properties belong to trust to be used by bohras. If they are objected or harassed, then they can go to police and shower SMS camp with cases and FIRs.

Going to court is one fine move, make many many such more moves to claim your rights … Morever SMS is a “kind hearted” leader ! he will not declare baraat or cause any inconvenience ! he has already conveyed “ Gale Lagaavi Laise” then what is the fear ?

SKQ must come out and conduct waaz and daawa of his rightful claim, apart from court cases, he needs to win hearts too.

do you really think all this is so easy?

burhaani guards are not guards any more, but they are goondas in uniform, they have insulted mazoon sahab in past, and for money they can go to any extend, even this jamea students are goodnas, dont you remember how they killed their own ustaad in his house in surat?

its quite amusing to see that no one is really asking the self proclaimed Dai (KQ...la) for his proof/evidence...? whereas Syedna Mufaddal tus has presented documents, audio clips, video clips, witnesses...what else you want...and why are the proggys bothered if the audio/video clip is authentic? n pls visit the website www.believesyednaqutbuddin.com to clear your doubts....

you will also become a goonda if somebody stands in front of the person whom you consider jaan anay maal na maalik wont you?

Bohra spring wrote:Umme darling sorry to break your heart....

salaar wrote:you will also become a goonda if somebody stands in front of the person whom you consider jaan anay maal na maalik wont you?

no I wont, islam dont teach us goonda gardi and attacking people.

and I dont think mazoon sahab attacked any one, then why was he attacked in surat?

Know one thing. No guard, no person, nothing can stop Dai in his way. Whether he wants to walk into Raudat, Saifee masjid or Ahmedabad for ziyarat. He is the commander and that's the difference between Dai and the rest. His rutbo is such... It's like the saying "rasto khuli jaase.." The road for the Dai is open. Every single one. I agree with Human being that if he wanted SKQ can march anywhere, he has the spiritual power. Because he is the Dai right? wherever he goes they'd be help from some where, in some form... And if you don't believe in that, whether you are a follower of Dai or SKQ yourself then there's no point in having or putting your faith in the Dai all together

Ummehani52 wrote:Know one thing. No guard, no person, nothing can stop Dai in his way. Whether he wants to walk into Raudat, Saifee masjid or Ahmedabad for ziyarat. He is the commander and that's the difference between Dai and the rest. His rutbo is such... It's like the saying "rasto khuli jaase.." The road for the Dai is open. Every single one. I agree with Human being that if he wanted SKQ can march anywhere, he has the spiritual power. Because he is the Dai right? wherever he goes they'd be help from some where, in some form... And if you don't believe in that, whether you are a follower of Dai or SKQ yourself then there's no point in having or putting your faith in the Dai all together

oh really? then why SMB could not visit Madina for 20 years when he was banned from saudi government?

even today MS cant do zyarat of bibi fatema(s) because gov has banned it, so what does it proves?

Okay fair enough, I take your point but Medina is Medina.. SKQ is living in Mumbai! He was there on the day of the burial of SMB.. Again I take your point regarding Saudi, you are absolutely right there .. But explain SKQ who's in the same city as Saifee masjid and Bhindi Bazar yet they say he fears for his security? Dai....? I'm not too sure..

Ummehani52 wrote:Know one thing. No guard, no person, nothing can stop Dai in his way. Whether he wants to walk into Raudat, Saifee masjid or Ahmedabad for ziyarat. He is the commander and that's the difference between Dai and the rest. His rutbo is such... It's like the saying "rasto khuli jaase.." The road for the Dai is open. Every single one. I agree with Human being that if he wanted SKQ can march anywhere, he has the spiritual power. Because he is the Dai right? wherever he goes they'd be help from some where, in some form... And if you don't believe in that, whether you are a follower of Dai or SKQ yourself then there's no point in having or putting your faith in the Dai all together

I don't think you get off this easy Umme. You cannot simply concede the point. You must accept the necessary conclusion. By your logic, you must accept that if SMS is the dai he "should be able to go anywhere, somehow some spiritual force should be able to help him do Moulatena Fatema's ziyarat." Hence he must not be the dai.
Sorry, getting carried away by twisted logic always come back to bite you.

Ummehani52 wrote:Know one thing. No guard, no person, nothing can stop Dai in his way. Whether he wants to walk into Raudat, Saifee masjid or Ahmedabad for ziyarat. He is the commander and that's the difference between Dai and the rest. His rutbo is such... It's like the saying "rasto khuli jaase.." The road for the Dai is open. Every single one. I agree with Human being that if he wanted SKQ can march anywhere, he has the spiritual power. Because he is the Dai right? wherever he goes they'd be help from some where, in some form... And if you don't believe in that, whether you are a follower of Dai or SKQ yourself then there's no point in having or putting your faith in the Dai all together

That must explain how MS gets away with daylight robbery... Walks into a room full of abdes, steals their money and walks out without anyone stopping him. He is a phony dai however, so his powers are limited to abdes, amtes and in my case, their hapless husbands

Anyone please upload/send the audio & video of London nass(it is ok if it is as private message).
Why SKQ is not give any comments on london nass yet?
This is a time on where SKQ must give any response on London nass. In my family & friends, no one want to listen that the video & audio are not real.

One side : a Taliban-like, money-lover but who is proabably the true mansoos.
Other side : a smart, pious man but probably didn't get nass from his brother.

Terrible dilemma !

Sceptical wrote:One side : a Taliban-like, money-lover but who is proabably the true mansoos.
Other side : a smart, pious man but probably didn't get nass from his brother.

Terrible dilemma !

Sceptical, I take the opposite view...Why would a smart, pious man who inarguably is smart enough to understand the odds he was against, risk the peace of his later years and the well being of his family to fight this battle? He has put all his worldly wealth on the line to make this claim. I don't think he is stupid enough to do it for worldly gains. I am pretty certain he was driven by a higher motive. I think the nass was done on him by his brother and he felt compelled to reveal it in order that haq ni dawat may continue.

UnhappyBohra wrote: Sceptical, I take the opposite view...Why would a smart, pious man who inarguably is smart enough to understand the odds he was against, risk the peace of his later years and the well being of his family to fight this battle? He has put all his worldly wealth on the line to make this claim. I don't think he is stupid enough to do it for worldly gains. I am pretty certain he was driven by a higher motive. I think the nass was done on him by his brother and he felt compelled to reveal it in order that haq ni dawat may continue.

Yes. of course. That's what I thought since SKQ has declared himself Dai.

But, manipulated or not, SMS's camp has provided some interesting "evidence" of their claim.
Maybe SMS was not able to manipulate his father so easily as we think.

Sceptical wrote:

UnhappyBohra wrote: Sceptical, I take the opposite view...Why would a smart, pious man who inarguably is smart enough to understand the odds he was against, risk the peace of his later years and the well being of his family to fight this battle? He has put all his worldly wealth on the line to make this claim. I don't think he is stupid enough to do it for worldly gains. I am pretty certain he was driven by a higher motive. I think the nass was done on him by his brother and he felt compelled to reveal it in order that haq ni dawat may continue.

Yes. of course. That's what I thought since SKQ has declared himself Dai.

But, manipulated or not, SMS's camp has provided some interesting "evidence" of their claim.
Maybe SMS was not able to manipulate his father so easily as we think.

What did we actually see in the video? Did we see and hear Aqa Moula do nass in a clear voice on MS? Did we hear him do nass on MS in his entire life? Since we never really ever heard Moula do nass on anyone(the enhanced video on believesyedna website notwithstanding) we must rely on his Mazoon to validate the nass. It really is as simple as that. @Sceptical, for a skeptic, you are easily convinced!

think_for_yourself wrote:

Sceptical wrote: Yes. of course. That's what I thought since SKQ has declared himself Dai.

But, manipulated or not, SMS's camp has provided some interesting "evidence" of their claim.
Maybe SMS was not able to manipulate his father so easily as we think.

What did we actually see in the video? Did we see and hear Aqa Moula do nass in a clear voice on MS? Did we hear him do nass on MS in his entire life? Since we never really ever heard Moula do nass on anyone(the enhanced video on believesyedna website notwithstanding) we must rely on his Mazoon to validate the nass. It really is as simple as that. @Sceptical, for a skeptic, you are easily convinced!

The only thing you see in the video is that a bunch of greedy son's manipulating their father for their continued hold on power!
Moula was neither wearing his spectacles nor was he wearing his hearing aid. The first time he didn't even realize that MS was standing next to him and bowing so that he could get blessed, only after someone prompted did he put his hand on his back the second time. Don't fall that easily for the MS propaganda, this was nothing but a staged event like Raudat Tahera.
Clearly moula's cognitive abilities after a sever stroke were impaired and he was taken advantage of. Just like Ayesha took advantage of Rasululah's illness so did the Shehzada's.