Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Muslim First wrote:

Nizari Ismaili Imams do speak English for last 100 years and their Murids believe they possess original qur'an and they are only interpretor of Qur'an.

Alas but no translation.

You are right. I tend to miss out Ismaili Imam. My comments are valid for Bohras and other non-Arabic speaking Shia, the twelvers.

Muslim First wrote:

thats why bohras do not read the translations

Alas. It is their loss and keeps them in darkness and in control of their clergy.

Exactly like Hindus. Brahmins are only one who know the religion.

Much worse than Hindus. At least a Brahmin can interpret scriptures and publish his views with much public encouragement. For Bohras, there is only one Brahmin-in-Chief. The clergy parrot his words. However, in addition, they are allowed to interpret the Quran in any way they like if, and only if, it serves to glorify the Brahmin-in-Chief.

porus wrote:However, in addition, they are allowed to interpret the Quran in any way they like if, and only if, it serves to glorify the Brahmin-in-Chief.

So what other purposes do you think the Quran serves

aziz wrote: this is the ayat that porus aalim has used to argue his case ,here there are again 6 different translations so can the aalim porus explain which is the correct one and how he reached that conclusion,because word of allah cannot be changed and by translating or following the translation you are doing that,

I generally avoid using the published English translations of the Quran unless I agree with them. Therefore, you will notice that I supply my own translations.

I had objected to the madeh "Sajda tujhe wajib hai" to three Amil Sahebs and put forward ayat 41:37 for them to justify sajda to Sayedna. I quickly decided that my knowledge of Arabic and the Quran was better than that of these Amils. Two Amils were not even aware of the ayat. All they could do was to shrug their shoulders. One of them appeared to be genuinely embarrassed.

Their standard reply? "Aa babat par apne ghaur karisu."

porus wrote: I quickly decided that my knowledge of Arabic and the Quran was better than that of these Amils.

That explains it...

profastian wrote: So what other purposes do you think the Quran serves

Whatever purposes the Quran serves, it is surely does not justify in any way the extortion racket and the personality cult built around any human being.

porus wrote: I had objected to the madeh "Sajda tujhe wajib hai" to three Amil Sahebs and put forward ayat 41:37 for them to justify sajda to Sayedna. I quickly decided that my knowledge of Arabic and the Quran was better than that of these Amils. Two Amils were not even aware of the ayat. All they could do was to shrug their shoulders. One of them appeared to be genuinely embarrassed.

Their standard reply? "Aa babat par apne ghaur karisu."

It seems porus have forgotten the Syedi Sadikali's Nasihat or he is more smatter.
"Burhane-din na chehra ma hi Rab nu che namood,
Karje jhooki ne ehne tu Sadik Ali Sujood"
Porus go back to madrassa and relearn the nasihat.

abd wrote:

porus wrote: I had objected to the madeh "Sajda tujhe wajib hai" to three Amil Sahebs and put forward ayat 41:37 for them to justify sajda to Sayedna. I quickly decided that my knowledge of Arabic and the Quran was better than that of these Amils. Two Amils were not even aware of the ayat. All they could do was to shrug their shoulders. One of them appeared to be genuinely embarrassed.

Their standard reply? "Aa babat par apne ghaur karisu."

It seems porus have forgotten the Syedi Sadikali's Nasihat or he is more smatter.
"Burhane-din na chehra ma hi Rab nu che namood,
Karje jhooki ne ehne tu Sadik Ali Sujood"
Porus go back to madrassa and relearn the nasihat.

man what the hell is going on here....

you should know you started this threadby by being a dodh daayo,

aziz wrote:you should know you started this threadby by being a dodh daayo,

Dear Aziz

haha now u made me laugh...i didnt started this thread to end it up with shirk.

the biggest shirk you are doing is by translating the quran and changing the word of allah,all sorts of armies have attacked muslims at all times in the last 1400 yrs but no one managed to change the word of allah but you have managed to what they could not do for 1400 yrs in the last generation or so ,and that is the biggest shirk of all

incredible wrote: Dear Aziz
haha now u made me laugh...i didnt started this thread to end it up with shirk.

What shirk do you find? Are you a follower of the first three?
Either be seeing by both your eyes perfectly well or be completely blind. Don't be aawar .

abd wrote:
It seems porus have forgotten the Syedi Sadikali's Nasihat or he is more smatter.
"Burhane-din na chehra ma hi Rab nu che namood,
Karje jhooki ne ehne tu Sadik Ali Sujood"
Porus go back to madrassa and relearn the nasihat.

I had admired the Naseehat of Sheikh Sadik. However, if he wrote the above, then he just fell from my grace and admiration. I realised that, just like the writer of 'sajda tujhe wajib hai', he too was a mushrik.

No naseehat is greater than Quran. Ali ibn Abi Talib said that "la shay akbar min al-Quran doon Allah". (Nothing is greter than Quran except Allah)

Mushriks said to Nabi Muhammad that they saw face of God in idols and that is why they did sujood to their idols. Mushriks said that they saw face of God in the Sun and the Moon and that is why they did sujood to them. But what does the Quran say about the face of God.?

Here is ayat 115 from Sural al-Baqarah:

"And God's is the east and the west: and wherever you turn, there is God's countenance.
Behold, God is infinite, all-knowing." (2:115)

So, Allah says that you will see His face wherever you turn. But does He say that you should do sujood wherever you turn? No. Allah wants you to turn towards Kaaba when you offer your salaat in which you do your ruku and sujood to Allah alone.

I have already pointed out that ayat 41:37 forbids sujood anyone except Allah.

Here is another ayat from Quran Majeed, ayat 77 from Suraat al-Hajj:

"O, you who have attained to faith! Bow down and prostrate yourselves, and worship
your Rab alone, and do good, so that you might attain to a happy state." (22:78)

Again Quran says, without doubt (la rayba fihi), that ruku and sujood are for Allah only.

And here we have jaahil abdes who consider naseehat greater than the greatest naseehat ever, that is the Glorious Quran.

i dont know what was shaikh sadiq Ali stand on shirk...Allah knows the best.

but porus have already replied well for other issues so i dont think i need to reply any thing further...

abd wrote:

incredible wrote: Dear Aziz
haha now u made me laugh...i didnt started this thread to end it up with shirk.

What shirk do you find? Are you a follower of the first three?
Either be seeing by both your eyes perfectly well or be completely blind. Don't be aawar .

how does it makes me a follower of first three if i stand for laa wahdahu laa sharik,as far as i know those three where followers of idols and Imam Ali broke those idols and throw them away from masjidul haraam,so any one standing for laa wahdahu laa sharik is shiyate Ali...and those who emphasis for idol worship those are followers of those three.


laailaha illallah was the message of prophet Muhammed(saw) and yes i am follower of prophet Muhammed(saw) and ahlul bayt.

incredible wrote:as far as i know those three where followers of idols

If you are referring to the first three khalifas, then what you wrote is not true.

porus wrote: Here is ayat 115 from Sural al-Baqarah:

"And God's is the east and the west: and wherever you turn, there is God's countenance.
Behold, God is infinite, all-knowing." (2:115)

So, Allah says that you will see His face wherever you turn. But does He say that you should do sujood wherever you turn? No. Allah wants you to turn towards Kaaba when you offer your salaat in which you do your ruku and sujood to Allah alone.

Exactly sujood towards Kaaba not everywhere.
You say Sadiq Ali is a mushrik . So what does calling the 3 Khalifas make you(An idiot )

profastian wrote: So what does calling the 3 Khalifas make you(An idiot )

Ameerul Mumineen, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Fatima al-Zahra, Imam Hasan and Imam Husain all called Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman Khalifas. So, in your book, they are idiots too. Himmar Waahid!!!

porus wrote:

profastian wrote: So what does calling the 3 Khalifas make you(An idiot )

Ameerul Mumineen, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Fatima al-Zahra, Imam Hasan and Imam Husain all called Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman Khalifas. So, in your book, they are idiots too. Himmar Wahid!!!

Yes for taqiyat, not with reverence as you do.( In western culture donkeys are considered the wisest , so that makes me the number one wisest )

profastian wrote:

porus wrote: Ameerul Mumineen, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Fatima al-Zahra, Imam Hasan and Imam Husain all called Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman Khalifas. So, in your book, they are idiots too. Himmar Wahid!!!

Yes for taqiyat, not with reverence as you do.( In western culture donkeys are considered the wisest , so that makes me the number one wisest )

Dhu aql kal himmar! hu himmaratayn himmaran!!

porus wrote:

incredible wrote:as far as i know those three where followers of idols

If you are referring to the first three khalifas, then what you wrote is not true.

Well according to my understanding first three khlifah did worship idols in there past and thos idols were always god for them
So when Imam Ali broke those idols from masjidul haraam this three khalifa decided to take revenge from Ali and this is the only reason
They absurb islamic khilafat from imam Ali(a.s) wallaho alam.


(Sorry for typo using phone at the moment)

incredible wrote:i dont know what was shaikh sadiq Ali stand on shirk

Is it that you don't understand those crystal clear verses of the nasihat above or you have the doubt about its authenticity?
Or you too hold the opinion of Mr. Porus on Syedi Sadik Ali Saheb?

porus wrote:I had admired the Naseehat of Sheikh Sadik. However, if he wrote the above, then he just fell from my grace and admiration. I realised that, just like the writer of 'sajda tujhe wajib hai', he too was a mushrik.

"he just fell from my grace and admiration.". Porus, what's your taqbbur all about? You think searching online Quraan by a particular topic and copy pasting the verses here makes you speak so high of yourself. Its anybody's guess where you stand compare to Syedi Sadikali Saheb.

porus wrote: And here we have jaahil abdes who consider naseehat greater than the greatest naseehat ever, that is the Glorious Quran.

Yes Glorious Quran is the greatest nasihat ever. But what makes you feel its only you who has understood Quran, the best.

abd wrote: Porus, what's your taqbbur all about? You think searching online Quraan by a particular topic and copy pasting the verses here makes you speak so high of yourself. Its anybody's guess where you stand compare to Syedi Sadikali Saheb.

taqbbur?

We now have two jahils on this forum. We can add this 'abd' to the company of 'profastian'.

Learn to spell the word properly first, you idiot. It is 'takabbur'.

abd wrote: Yes Glorious Quran is the greatest nasihat ever. But what makes you feel its only you who has understood Quran, the best.

If you think you have understood the Quran better, then challenge me on the content of what I post. Give us your or your amil's or Sayedna's take on those ayats. Learn the art of argument from the Quran. Do you know which ayat I am talking about? Himmar taani!!

Porus,
Once again good posts.. Learnt somemore from you. Initially I was going to tell you to avoid Pro-Fart and his partner abd as they are not worth your while. But in the end feel good that inspite of their idiotic crap you came up with some brilliant posts.

porus wrote:If you think you have understood the Quran better, then challenge me on the content of what I post. Give us your or your amil's or Sayedna's take on those ayats. Learn the art of argument from the Quran. Do you know which ayat I am talking about? Himmar taani!!

In my posts i never used abusive language. What makes you call everyone 'jahil' and 'himmar'?
Well this shows where exactly you belong to and sources of your so called ilm.

abd wrote: In my posts i never used abusive language. What makes you call everyone 'jahil' and 'himmar'?

I regret the language. However, please challenge me on the content of my posts and do not write what you imagine to be my character or the extent of my knowledge. I will desist from calling you anything unflattering. I cannot say the same for others.

Porus
If you are referring to the first three khalifas, then what you wrote is not true.porus

Ameerul Mumineen, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Fatima al-Zahra, Imam Hasan and Imam Husain all called Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman Khalifas. So, in your book, they are idiots too.

Thank you br.

Incredible
Well according to my understanding first three khlifah did worship idols in there past and thos idols were always god for themSo when Imam Ali broke those idols from masjidul haraam this three khalifa decided to take revenge from Ali and this is the only reasonThey absurb islamic khilafat from imam Ali(a.s) wallaho alam

how does it makes me a follower of first three if i stand for laa wahdahu laa sharik,as far as i know those three where followers of idols and Imam Ali broke those idols and throw them away from masjidul haraam,so any one standing for laa wahdahu laa sharik is shiyate Ali...and those who emphasis for idol worship those are followers of those three.

Br. incredible

Where do you learn this crap? What kind of Islam you guys learn from your Alims and Maula. Which History book this information you got from?

Do you know Imam Ali RA said;

In the Nahjul Balagha, one of the most revered books of the Shia, Ali (رضّى الله عنه) said in Sermon 126:

“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”

I think you guys love and worship Hz Ali so much that it has taken you away from rightfulness.

Wasalaam

;

Muslim First wrote:

Br. incredible

Where do you learn this crap? What kind of Islam you guys learn from your Alims and Maula. Which History book this information you got from?

Do you know Imam Ali RA said;

In the Nahjul Balagha, one of the most revered books of the Shia, Ali (رضّى الله عنه) said in Sermon 126:

“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”

I think you guys love and worship Hz Ali so much that it has taken you away from rightfulness.

Wasalaam

;

nor imam Ali ever worshiped any idols nor his followers worships any one other then Allah Subhanu...I hope you got this point very clear and wont let me or others to repeat same stuff again and again.

I repeat my question

Br. incredible

Where do you learn this crap? What kind of Islam you guys learn from your Alims and Maula. Which History book this information you got from?

Wasalaam

Muslim First wrote:I repeat my question

Br. incredible

Where do you learn this crap? What kind of Islam you guys learn from your Alims and Maula. Which History book this information you got from?

Wasalaam

I dont need to learn any thing from any mulla history is full of this incidents ....learn from books which are spil all over...start from here

www.shiachat.com