Shabab/Abdes attack reformists in masjid in Udaipur

[Sajauddin_Bagwala]

Zara ye to bate jab mumineen saifee masjid ke bahar maar khaa rahe the tab unke Dai kahan chhupe bethe the aur kya kar rahe the..................... Oh mein to bhool gaya ke woh apni cadillac gaadi chhod kar police ki van me bhaag gaye the !

Maloon Progticide, kaha chhup gaya kaayar, phate hoove tyre! Jawab de above post ka?

[guy_sam2005]

What have we become, animals? have we left every bit of sense that we start attacking people in the masjid, and what was their crime again, praying namaz? This should be condemned in strictest of terms. Their is no ifs and buts.
How can local aamil and Taha bs let this happen in front of them. Havent they heard Moula(tus) calling progs back to the fold, is this the way they will come back? What sort of reconciliation way is this where women are attacked, men are bludgeoned. ground work of people who were trying to bring people closer is in shambles because of these goons or rather fools.

Only one thing can be understood from this incident that some abdes have attacked progs just to show off to Taha bs that see this is the way we can deal with these people if they are not listening to you. What do they want to do?start another 1972 revolt or they want Bohras to live in peace. Already people have suffered a lot since this revolt, time to bring people home and not drive them away forever.

aqs, you're the only abde - so far - who has the moral courage, integrity and intellectual honesty to condemn this is no uncertain terms. Thank you and keep it up. Hope other abdes too will shed their inhibitions.

we do not encourage or support violence in any form,we do condemn it,you also should realise that callin our shafiq bawa names n insulting him hurts us too,further more than some1 peircing us with knives,but u guys wantedly do that wit the intention of provoking us and resorting to name calling.u cant clap with 1 had my dear friend,u expect abdes to cme forward n condemn but you never condemn ur own clan wen they insult our beloved moula(tus) who is as close to us as our biological parents.

[guy_sam2005]

Mubarak a.k.a Sajauddin Bagwala a.k.a Mnoorani a.k.a Badrijanab,

Zara ye to bata jab tere bhai maar khaa rahe the tab tu kahan chhupaa betha tha aur kya kar raha tha.....

Zara ye to bate jab mumineen saifee masjid ke bahar maar khaa rahe the tab unke Dai kahan chhupe bethe the aur kya kar rahe the..................... Oh mein to bhool gaya ke woh apni cadillac gaadi chhod kar police ki van me bhaag gaye the !

bro humsafar,
See the above post,now do u condemn that or not?is gm any good to either side,he doesnt even have bohra beliefs............but u guys encourage him over ur bohra brothers,but expect us to be wit u in ur time of need,,,,,,,,,,,,

[progticide]

Progtiside
See the below photograph. Is this injury is without a weapon!

Thanks for sharing this photograph...

Anyone with two eyes (infact even one eye) can see that not even the shirt buttons of this reformist trouble-maker character are dislodged from their position, leave alone the intactness of the shirt he is wearing. I dont even see the ironing of his shirt disturbed, the neatness of the crease and buttons suggest that they were carefully opened. So what kind of weapon-attack and mob-attack has this character been a victim of when even his shirt is not torn. And the blood stain; if one carefully notices the blood-stain is not thick and dark as fresh blood stain should be; the blood stain is faded and pale which happens only when there is a very small blood drop on the clothes and when water or sweat is applied to it the stain starts to blot and spread to the surrounding area creating a larger stain but becoming faded and light in texture due to dilution. This shows that the injury, if any, sustained by this character should not be more than a bleeding blister in the foot. People sustain more bleeding while performing Matam with their bare hands during Moharram.

So it is clear that all this was nothing more than pre-planned and stage-managed reformists conspiracy to create violence on large scale which failed miserably due to DB wisdom, tolerance and peace-loving characteristics.

[progticide]

Now that the nefarious plans and schemes of the reformists to provoke the DBs and stoke violence have been exposed, All the reformists on this forum who were shouting victimisation have been caught by fever.

Firstly, the extreme tolerance and patience exhibited by the peace-loving DBs in the wake of provocation by means of derogatory language in the DB Masjid by the reformists defeated the reformists agenda to incite large scale violence.
Secondly, timely and sincere intervention by all the DB elders to subdue the anger and resentment of the DB crowd that was provoked by the reformists proved highly crucial and beneficial in controlling the situation which the reformists had pre-planned to exploit to execute their evil designs of creating large scale violence and thereby gain public sympathy and support.
The rumours spread by the reformists immediately after the incident such as use of weapons, attack on women etc boomeranged on the reformists themselves as no weapons were found on any person, no person was severely or critically injured.

If the DBs wanted to attack reformists, then no wisdom would suggest doing so on a day when large numbers of DB women and children were present in the crowd and when there was a large police presence due to the nature of the occasion. There are other 364 days in the year to do such a thing if anyone wanted to, no common sense would allow doing so on that day of Ramadan.

But analysing the situation with a closer observation suggest that this particular occasion was ideal for the reformists club to incite trouble by provoking the DBs who were present in overwhelming majority. This would help the reformists play the Victim card and portray DBs as aggressors; whereas the fact to make note of is that the incident took place inside the DB Masjid. DBs did not walk upto the reformists controlled-masjids to beat them up. The reformists entered DB masjid on the pretext of offering Namaaz. But instead of offering Namaaz and minding their own business, the reformists as per their pre-planned script started passing lewd and derogatory comments on the Dai and Mansoos, loud enough to ensure they are clearly heard by the DBs and cause provocation. The plot is clear to every naked eye that the reformists intended to exploit the situation to their advantage to gain public sympathy and show DBs as violent and aggressive, whereas the fact is that even after being provoked in their own Masjid and despite being in majority, the DBs exhibited outstanding tolerance and peace and self-restraint and did not allow the nefarious plans of the reformists who had intended to create large scale violence and cause many casualties, to succeed.

[Sajauddin_Bagwala]

Zara ye to bate jab mumineen saifee masjid ke bahar maar khaa rahe the tab unke Dai kahan chhupe bethe the aur kya kar rahe the..................... Oh mein to bhool gaya ke woh apni cadillac gaadi chhod kar police ki van me bhaag gaye the !

[anajmi]

Looks like the reformists took a leaf out of Syedna's booklet who tried to incite violence by uttering laanat on the first 3 khalifas, but it was the peace loving nature of the sunni muslims and the extreme restraint they showed that the Dai was allowed to run away in a police car unharmed and was allowed to get away simply with a national apology. The Sunnis exhibited outstanding tolerance and peace and self-restraint and did not allow the nefarious plans of the Syedna who had intended to create large scale violence and cause many casualties, to succeed.

[progticide]

Looks like the reformists took a leaf out of Syedna's booklet who tried to incite violence by uttering laanat on the first 3 khalifas, but it was the peace loving nature of the sunni muslims and the extreme restraint they showed that the Dai was allowed to run away in a police car unharmed and was allowed to get away simply with a national apology. The Sunnis exhibited outstanding tolerance and peace and self-restraint and did not allow the nefarious plans of the Syedna who had intended to create large scale violence and cause many casualties, to succeed.

Ab Jab tum reformists ke plans ki pol khul gayi toh topic ko track par se hataane ka kaam chalu ho gaya.

Instead of countering the arguments from DBs which have exposed reformists' evil designs and mischevious plots to forment trouble and violence, you have resorted to digressing from the topic which is concerning the violence in Udaipur.

But realising that now there is nothing to save face in the view of the exposure of your nefarious plans to perpetrate violence and chaos in Udaipur, you reformists have resorted to your old tactics of digressing from the topic. Otherwise there is no relation between the incident in Udaipur and the two-decade old one in Mumbai.

[anajmi]

I am actually agreeing with you. We have seen the Dai use these same nefarious tactics against the peace loving Sunnis by inciting them to commit violence. It was their peace loving nature that they let the Dai get away with it. The reformists are learning from a great teacher. There is a big relation between the one in Udaipur and the one that happened twenty years ago. The relation is that the bohras have the exact same Dai!!!

[Humsafar]

My dear Don Pesticide Quixote,
Aali Janaab Bhaisaheb, please do not tilt at the windmill so much, you'll hurt yourself. Where is the question of countering your argument. We accept every word of it, there is not need for you to hyperventilate, there is no need for you to repeat the same thing in black, red and green colours (are you going colour blind?). Yes it was evil reformists' nefarious nefarious nefarious plan. Yes, We get it, okay? Now stop jumping up and down. I think you must be too exhausted from all this frantic analyses and excitement that you forgot to mention a minor detail. Through my investigation I've discovered (sorry, I did not mean to upstage you) that evil reformists also planted the weapons under our abdes' massalahs and we thought it was yet another miracle of Maula. And thanks to the rehmat and hikmat of our Maula we were able so show optimum amount of restrain, peace and patience. Otherwise who know what would have happened...
And the other thing as I noted previously is that how come we abdes - the cult of the Infallibles - fell for this evil ploy. Despite everything going for us, money, intelligence, power, moral authority, social superiority, Maula and Mansoos, and what not.... any yet we fell for these bunch of good-for-nothing uncouth leaderless scoundrels!!! This is not good Janab Pesticide. I think there is something lacking in the abdes of Udaipur and in the local Amil and also in the Mansoos of Mansoos. They allowed it to happen. This is so humiliating. I suggest that we launch an investigation as to why we abdes did not show more patience, restraint and peace. Why? Heads must roll over this. And as a solution may I be so bold as to suggest that you, yes sir you, immediately start a Haqiqi Yoga bootcamp in Udaipur.
Just to remind you, please do not try too hard, I assure you, your Sheikh-hood is assured.

[Humsafar]

Progtiside
See the below photograph. Is this injury is without a weapon!

Thanks for sharing this photograph...

Anyone with two eyes (infact even one eye) can see that not even the shirt buttons of this reformist trouble-maker character are dislodged from their position, leave alone the intactness of the shirt he is wearing. I dont even see the ironing of his shirt disturbed, the neatness of the crease and buttons suggest that they were carefully opened. So what kind of weapon-attack and mob-attack has this character been a victim of when even his shirt is not torn. And the blood stain; if one carefully notices the blood-stain is not thick and dark as fresh blood stain should be; the blood stain is faded and pale which happens only when there is a very small blood drop on the clothes and when water or sweat is applied to it the stain starts to blot and spread to the surrounding area creating a larger stain but becoming faded and light in texture due to dilution. This shows that the injury, if any, sustained by this character should not be more than a bleeding blister in the foot. People sustain more bleeding while performing Matam with their bare hands during Moharram.

So it is clear that all this was nothing more than pre-planned and stage-managed reformists conspiracy to create violence on large scale which failed miserably due to DB wisdom, tolerance and peace-loving characteristics.

Wow, pesticide what is this obsession with the "naked eye"? Are you some kind of an optical pervert? And your analysis of blood stains is just mind blowing, who knew you had such a sharp forensic mind, uh? Yet, I'll have to beg to differ with you. As far as I can see this not even real blood. This is some kind of red paint. I suggest we must get the DNA testing done. Just for the record.

[bohri]

The plot is clear to every naked eye that the reformists intended to exploit the situation to their advantage to gain public sympathy and show DBs as violent and aggressive, whereas the fact is that even after being provoked in their own Masjid and despite being in majority, the DBs exhibited outstanding tolerance and peace and self-restraint and did not allow the nefarious plans of the reformists who had intended to create large scale violence and cause many casualties, to succeed.

So progticide:
what would you have done had you been present in the mosque - with a name like yours I shudder to think! I guess you would call "nefarious" scheming reformist crossing your path "suicidal"?

Is this what is preached in your close circuit waez and sabaqs these days? What have they done to your brains - they have not only washed them of all good sense but implanted evil ones in them. I do feel sorry for. I would be happy to recommend therapy for you, but am afraid it may not work. Sorry!

As for "large scale violence" - what does that mean - there were only 12 reformists in the mosque. Let's hear your story on what the "real" plan was?

[ghulam muhammed]

But instead of offering Namaaz and minding their own business, the reformists as per their pre-planned script started passing lewd and derogatory comments on the Dai and Mansoos, loud enough to ensure they are clearly heard by the DBs and cause provocation.

Mr.progticide,

Could you please tell us as to WHAT lewd and derogatory comments were passed on the Dai and Mansoos and that too loud enough which even you could hear sitting miles away from Udaipur.

[ozmujaheed]

Admin or anyone from Udaipur can you update what arrangements are being made to care for the victims and injured from both sides ?

Is their medical help and trauma and shock counseling being provided by local authorities or the community.

I think rather than only worrying about who is in jail or bail there needs to be report on how the society is recovering and getting back to normality .

There needs to be leadership from progressive s to later think of starting the reconciliation process , this way you will show higher integrity and real leadership than kothar

The injured were only from one side, those who were attacked, and yes they were well taken care of. Hatim Bhai who received most injuries is in hospital as we speak, and maybe released today. Other victims were seen by doctors and sent home after examination. The old woman, Sakina Dalal, is my relative and she is pretty shaken up and in pain - her old bones are hurting. We do not have the kind of professional counselling as you have in the West, but there is a good family and community support system and it goes a long way in providing psychological healing.
Surface normalcy has returned, but reformists are very angry: they were attacked inside the mosque during ramazan and soon after the majlis which was commemorating Maula Ali's shahdat (who too was martyred inside a masjid) - the episode is layered too thick with irony and tragedy to be easily forgotten or forgiven. Such incidents create more bitterness and drive deeper wedge between the two groups. "Reconciliation" is nice, but you need two hands to grab this animal. But the problem is that one hand is always raised to beat us. The abdes in Udaipur will not just leave us alone - we just want to get on with our lives and our affairs but since they lust after our masjids and mazars and jamatkhanas they are always creating trouble. And do you think the mafia clergy and their illiterate hordes are interested in reconciliation? They want their pound of flesh, and they will have it by any means possible.

Humsafar how many were injured in total ?

How many women men , children.

We're there any on the abde side who were not the goons but who were injured accidently ?

We must make sure that 20 ramazan or 6 August gets recorded in history where those few courageous Bohras who went to pray for Zohar were denied facilities and when they expressed their legal democratic right to criticize the issue they were attacked by the oppressors and though outnumbered resisted and took self defense which is a true jihad to protect themselves, were saved by the law enforcement . We should thank the authorities for taking a neutral position and making arrests . We should encourage the authorities though under pressure and politics not to waiver in the course of justice.

The few who resisted are our modern day shaheeds who like Husain and Ali AS resist and took physical abuse on them selves to protect our individual dignity, they inspire us to be bold, i salute and respect them, where I personally hide behind a nickname while they put their body and well being on the line.

I myself would have probably turned and gone home to pray but their courage and sacrifice motivates me to further the resistance , make an individual stand and whatever the consequence. I hope many on both sides will feel the same.

The reconciliation is to have an open discussions between the bystanders on both sides who watched but did not get involved to ask their consciousness and amongst themselves is this right if not acknowledge ask for forgiveness , put in actions to learn from it so that we avoid this in future . It is not too late, let us not divide forever.

Admin May their respectable portraits be published on the site with others who have in the past as the true heroes and examples. We have witnessed a history in the making.

On the same note if this is what Mansoos wants his era to be known as and ignores the issues and does not penalize his son who stood by and watched the abuse, the amils and shabab are not suspended then history and the future generation will judge him. Regardless of what legal outcome he has to take accountability and otherwise it will be a big stain on his era. He may have inherited his position but now that he is in the throne he can decide to restore leadership credibility or end like other despots . The revolt is gradually gaining ground and either he is with the people or he wants to protect his corrupt extended family who are despised by the moderates.

[ghulam muhammed]

The rumours spread by the reformists immediately after the incident such as use of weapons, attack on women etc boomeranged on the reformists themselves as no weapons were found on any person, no person was severely or critically injured.

Hatim Ali has received severe injuries on the head and chestdue to being allegedly hit by metal fist extenders.

Anees Miyaji, spokesperson of Bohra Youth said that the attack was pre-planned and conducted after the instruction of Shabab’s senior community members. The members were attacked with metal fist extenders, which is why the move is said to be pre-planned.

Police has detained several members of Shabab group
for allegedly attacking and physically abusing members of the Youth group.

15 in total were injured in the brawl including Shabbir Nasir, Hatim Ali, Ashiq Ali, Zafar Ali, Abrar Ali, Zahra Bai, and Sakina Bai.

Policemen including Shyam Raj Singh, Sub-Inspector; Nasir, Constable; Pramod, Constable; Dube, Constable; Kalawati, Constable; Nasir Khan, Area Sub-Inspector and Mohd. Farukh, Head Constable were also injured.

http://www.udaipurtimes.com/intra-commu ... -detained/

[someone]

Video of Udaipur

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3DkouSgNb4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXdt9FrZ ... ure=relmfu

[think]

such goondaism has been in karachi jamaat since 1970. The kothar has them as their pet. locations in karachi like haidri, denso hall , saddar and gari khatta are famous of such miscreants. i wish the police was informed and such type of action was taken there as well to leave peace loving bohris alone. some one should complain to the karachi police also about this situation in udaipur so they could nip the karachi hooligans in the bud.

[porus]

"Bohra Reformist Jamila Germanwala exposing Syedna's Adminstration."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdIkQ73f ... ure=g-vrec

[porus]

Hatimbhai's fight against Syedna's corrupt system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Ub0kkb ... ure=g-vrec

[porus]

No equality in the Masjid in Syedna's regime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rru532pI ... ure=relmfu

[porus]

What happened in Galiakot on 1st March 1973?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... KGvQg&NR=1

[porus]

Reformist Dawoodi Bohra Suffering in Udaipur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmgV4JiX ... ure=relmfu

[porus]

Why Zehra Cyclewala was Outcasted from Dawoodi Bohra Community?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HGk4xnI ... ure=relmfu

[porus]

Pain and Suffering of Reformist Bohra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_OsbUqN ... ure=relmfu

[ozmujaheed]

Please Any update on this incident ?

[Reporter]

Things have quietened down now. All the culprits are out on bail, and are not to be seen in masjid/mohalla anymore.

[WYP]

Things have quietened down now. All the culprits are out on bail, and are not to be seen in masjid/mohalla anymore.

Have you reliably learned this? It makes it much more official and believable when you start your reporting with "It has been reliably learned that....."

[Reporter]

No, this is first hand news, but of course reliably learned through personal experience.

[ozmujaheed]

In India does bail mean there is a case pending ?

[ghulam muhammed]

In India does bail mean there is a case pending ?

Yes, the accused has to remain present on every court hearings and if he remains absent then the bail is cancelled and he is arrested and put behind bars.