Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Hi friends,

I am from India (Pondicherry), from Hindu family. I have friends friends from Bohra community and was inspired by this religion and community & their spirituality towards the almighty. I whole heartedly want to know more and about this community further and want to join myself into this community and live forever with the customes and cultures what I'll be learning now. Please guide me in this regard. - Pushparaj

Give up one idol for another.

The Dawoodi Bohra Community is the best community/sect but has the worst leaders - like Islam is the best religion but has some of the worst followers.

Islam is the best religion but has some of the worst followers.

Are Bohras also worst followers of Islam?

What kind of Islam they follow?

Look at Maulana's day.

On Sunday 8 May, Huzurala (TUS) performed ziyarat of Moulana Maalik el Ashtar (SA) and Yusuf BS Najmuddin Saheb at 10:30AM. Aqa Moula (TUS) performed Ziyaarat of Raas al-Husain (SA) followed by Maghrib/Isha Namaz at Jame al-Anwar.

On the 9th of May, Huzurala (TUS) performed ziyarat of Raas al-Husain (SA), Moulatena Zaineb (SA), Moulatena Nafisa (SA), Moulatena Ruqaiyah (SA), and Moulaya Mohammed Bin Abi Bakr (SA), followed by Zohr/Asr Namaz at Jame el Azhar.

Here this leader of community runs from grave to grave and then has very little time for prayers specified by Allah SWT. So he clubs them together.

Yes my brother Bohra may be best community but are also worst Muslims.

Wasalaam
.

*Anjuman Moizzi Qahera*
MUBARAK MUBARAK
Huzurala's (TUS) meeting with President Hosni Mubarak will be broadcasted on Egyptian channels, like nile news, nile TV, Channel 1 etc in news continuosly today.

Interesting to watch one puppet dictator/opressor of Egyptians' human rights meeting a so-called spiritual leader of an opressed and exploited sect.

Dear Brother Phushparaj:
Don't listen to all the cynics here. Why don't you start with the friends that you associate with and are impressed with.
Like all religions and their administration, Dawoodi Bohra is an excellent religion but a lot of greed has crept in among the clergy and priests due to long reigns of the current and immediate past leader(Dai). I am sure the bubble of the clergy pride and haughtiness will burst when the critical mass is amassed. Funny thing is that the clergy and the priests have no knowledge about their greed and haughtiness or pomposity and they are cruising along abusing people and their wealth.
But the dogma and teachings of the leader (Dai) and the religion itself is flawless and unbeatable.
So I welcome you to our religion, make sure you really want it after reading about it. it will be worthwhile to buy the book" Mullahs on the mainframe" which gives a balanced view of the community with chapters on faith, beliefs, etc, and also chapters on the anti-Dai elements which is represented here on this forum.

I am weary of these one time posts from a newbie that are invariably immediately followed by Wahabi posters (Anajmi, Muslim First etc.). The topic normally starts with someone wanting to marry a Bohri or having close friends who are Bohris and yet rely on complete strangers to give them advice on important matters of faith and marriage.

Call me a skeptic (sorry Pushparaj if you are legit), but these one timers rarely post a follow-up and the Wahabis take over the discussion (a quick use of the search feature will confirm my suspicion).

MF has several posts regarding people who run from grave to grave or grave worship but he rarely has a comment on his fellow Wahabis sending Muslims to their graves prematurely.

Pushparaj if you are sincerely interested in converting to a Dawoodi Bohra, I look forward to an enduring discussion and contribution from you on this board.

Average Bohra,

Shit, I thought I could get away with this, but you saw right through me. I cannot believe how smart you are. And yes you are right, actually I am pretending to be Pushparaj.

Sorry guys. No enduring discussion with me.

Brother Muslim First,

Now that our cover has been blown, I would suggest that when we pretend to be someone else, we should submit more than one post as that person, that way we can have an enduring discussion for a longer time.

Infact we should it the way I pretend to be a complete nincompoop called Average Bohra. Then I, as anajmi, kick his butt every time we have an enduring discussion.

Did I just blow away my Average Bohra secret? Damn. Allright folks now that you know, please ignore everything I post as Average Bohra, not that it was supposed to make any sense anyway.

Dear Pushpa Raj

I think the reason you have got attracted to the Dawoodi bohra Community is this community's beliefs and pratices which are based on the Hindu Religion. If you want to convert, convert to Islam and not to a community. Read and learn about Islam and compare the practices to the Bohra beliefs and you will note that Islam and Bohri's are miles apart. So I urge you, please read about Islam and read the Shia, Sunni, Wahabi literature and then make up your mind. Take advise from a Bohra who has said good bye to this community.

Regards

Thanks for you advise khan. I think I will do the same. I need to study more wahabi literature. They seem to really impress me. They are like these no shit guys. Very impressive. I don't think I am going to become a bohra.

sorry khan, actually I should've posted that as Pushparaj.

Kaka Akela said: 5-10-2005 - 5.07 p.m.

"So I welcome you to our religion, make sure you really want it after reading about it. it will be worthwhile to buy the book" Mullahs on the mainframe" which gives a balanced view of the community with chapters on faith, beliefs, etc, and also chapters on the anti-Dai elements which is represented here on this forum."

We take exception to your finding about the book giving "a balanced view".

Please refer to the following posts re. the biased and subjective view of Jonah Blank on this website.

*********************************************

Mumineen:
posted 07-23-2002 09:50 PM
________________________________________
I wrote to Jonah Blank a few years ago after he wrote an article in an American Magazine (US and the World!!)about the Bohras.
Apparently he had secured his Ph.d doing a thesis on the Bohras. He had gone to Bombay where the Kothar had aided and fetted him (at Saifee Mahal, I suppose)to write the very subjective thesis after being fed with all the slanted and self-serving stuff about the Bohras. He reckoned in his article that the Bohras were the most modern sect in Islam. (what?? - with all those fundamental practices of Saayo, Topi, Dadhi and Rida, extortions, misappropriation and appropriation of Community trust funds and
properties, FGM, shunning,poor josh maatam etc.etc.etc)
When I asked him about the Bohras following that barbaric and illegal Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)practice, he responded that he had discussed the practice with HH and HH denied that the practice existed in the Community.
I responded that HH was using another practice called "Taquiyah" ato conceal the truth, Mr. Blank was not sure !!
I think he also indicated that he had either met or heard of Dr. Asghar Ali Engineer and was aware of this Progressive Website when I challenged him about his objectivity being adulterated by the Kothar.
Now that Mr. Blank is working in Washington for the US Govt (US State Dept - Foreign Affairs Committee!!), I am sure the Kothar is and will exploit him fully to have an access to the US Government officials and politicians.
Isn't what they are doing in India now? Invitations to visit the Saifee Mahal to the corrupt the RSS and BJP fascists during Idd and Milaad of HH - in addition to spending the ill-gotten gains to bribe these officials and politicians.
________________________________________
Posts: 306

posted 08-02-2002 04:09 PM
________________________________________
Here's the correspondence I referred to in my post of July 23, 2002:
*******************************************
Thanks for your message, and for the interesting information. As you rightly note, taqiya is a longstanding practice for Bohras (as for all Shia groups), and it is one of the main reasons that as an outsider I can make no claim to having authoritative truth.

I have not been able to verify the existence of a dawat ban on FGM:
some dawat sources have told me the practice is banned, but others have said it is not. All of my sources agree that any extreme form of genital cutting is forbidden, by hadith rather than (or in addition to) direct pronouncement of Syedna. Those who say the practice is not banned say the only permissible form is a symbolic nick rather than actual excision.

Of all the difficult issues an anthropologist has to face during
fieldwork, genital cutting is one of the most difficult. As a male
researcher, I am even less qualified to make any authoritative judgement: all the information I receive is second, third, and fourth hand. All I can do is repeat what others have told me, both reformist and dawat sources alike.

All best wishes,
Jonah Blank
At 12:53 AM 8/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Mr. Blank:
>
>Thanks a lot for your offer. I hope you are successful in your endeavours.
>
>I do not wish to be skeptical or cynical but even if you are successful it will make most of the Bohras skeptical and cynical as well because of the following fact.
>
>There is a Bohra/Shia concept called "Tequiyah" which according to my
>limited knowledge of theology is a principle which allows a leader or
>his disciple to lie, perjure, cheat, steal, exaggerate or hide when in
>his opinion his faith is threatened by a non-believer of the faith -
>e.g. a Kaafir or Muddai (Reformist)
>
>So to save themselves from a public relations crisis or disaster or
>humiliations by journalists or women's organizations, the Dawat or His
>Holiness may give you this document in fact but may direct the flock
>otherwise through their world-wide network of Amils. In the parlance of an African adage: "an elephant has two sets of teeth. One set to chew and the other set (the tusks) to show off!!
>
>This is personal experience. For example, a few years ago at the Nasser Mosque in Cairo, Egypt, His Holiness and some of us Bohras
>prayed under an Egyptian Imam from Al Azhar. His Holiness instructed us to pray under the Imam under Tequiyah. but when we go back to our
>Hotels, to make up or "re-pray" as presumably the prayers under the
>non-bohri Imam were not :Jaeez" or valid.
>
>Another example, during prayer times at Haj time in Mecca, Bohras are
>directed from NOT praying under a non-Bohra Imam, at either the
>Prophet's Mosque or in the KAABA but instead offer their prayers at the
>Bohra Musafirkhana either under the Bohra Imam or by themselves.
>Poor Bohras, they come all the way from their home countries to Mecca
>and they are not allowed to offer their prayers in the holiest Islamic
>Shrines.
>
>Because the Bohras follow the Misri Lunar Calendar, they invariably
>perform their Haj a day earlier. This means they can't and don't
>complete one of the the mandatory rituals of a valid HAJ "Safa/Marwa" by themselves or in full view of other non-bohra millions of Muslims. The argument the priest give the gullible Bohras is that as soon as they view the KAABA with their naked eyes, their HAJ is complete. The priests also say that if they see His Holiness in person, this is equivalent to performing HAJ.
>
>In the meantime I await the documentation of the ban by His Holiness of the Female Genital Mutilation. This will be a very noble and heartfelt service by you to the thousands of oppressed and frightened Bohri young girls who have yet to go through this inhuman, barbaric and criminal torture.
>
>Thanks
>
>>
>>From: Jonah Blank
>>Subject: Re: Your Article on the Muslim Mainstream et al in July 20
>> News & World Report
>>
>> >> Thank you for your message. I'll ask a dawat source if he has documentation for the ban.
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Jonah Blank
>>
>>
>>At 11:15 AM 7/31/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>Dear Mr. Jonah Blank:
>>>
>>>Thanks for your prompt response including the clarifications etc.
>>>
>>>The only hard evidence of female genital mutilation is my personal
>>>knowledge of the immediate family members - i.e. nieces, daughters of cousins and friends having been through this barbaric tradition. As
>the practice is illegal in our country, some of the little girls were
>taken to UK to get this done atleast seven years ago under a close
>supervision or sponsorship of a "Dr Ganiwalla" of UK. A few years ago a lady-doctor belonging to the Royal family also visited Canada from California to perform these illegal acts "on mass". The best evidence will be for the family doctors of the young bohra girls to compel them to report of these unlawful acts (having already been committed) to the proper authorities. I suppose this requires statutory legislation through the aegis of the UN or UNESCO or some worldwide women or children's organization.
>>>
>>>If the dawat has banned this practice, then it is news to me. If you
>do have this in some form of evidentiary documents, I shall be pleased to obtain this from you please. Perhaps you could also endeavour to use
>>>your journalistic influence to ask the dawate hadiya - including His
>>>Holiness himself, to proclaim a verbal as well as documentary
>directive to their worldwide community of this change of cruel policy or the denial of the fatwa in the first place.
>>>
>>>Thanks again and have a very good week end.
>>>
>>>>From jblank@usnews.com Thu Jul 30 17:16:45 1998
>>>>
>>>>From: Jonah Blank
>>>>Subject: Re: Your Article on the Muslim Mainstream et al in July 20
>>>> News & World Report
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for your message, and link to the Webpage. I have
>>>interviewed a number of reformist Bohras, both in this country and in India, and if I have occasion to write longer pieces on the community I hope to include discussion of the disagreement between the dawat and its opponents. I have read all of the major works of Asghar Ali Engineer, and have spoken with him at length.
Do you have any evidence for the charge of female genital mutilation?
>I have heard rumors of it, but only from individuals (such as Dr. Engineer) who are open adversaries of the dawat. The practice is officially banned by the dawat, and has been for some time. If you have hard evidence that such a ban is not being enforced I would be interested to see it.
>>>>
>>>>On the issue of "matriarchy," I should point out that the full quote was significantly more nuanced prior to editing: my original segment was several paragraphs long, and the editors chopped it down to a single sentence.
>>>I was not pleased with the cut-- nor were members of the orthodox Bohra community. The point was not to argue that Bohra women are more powerful than Bohra men, but to note that Bohra women (both orthodox and reformist alike) tend to have higher educational levels and higher social standing than the women of many other Muslim communities. That, I think, is something in which Bohras of all camps can take pride.
>>>>
>>>>All best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>Jonah Blank
>>>>
>>>>At 05:47 PM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>>Please refer to the following Webpage for your education on the
>>>>>oppression of the minority Bohra reformists by the majority
>>>>>fundamentalist Dawoodi Bohra Community. You may be tempted to write a more objective article on the Dawoodi Bohras after studying all the contents of the webpage.
>>>>>
>>>>>By the way, speaking of the "matriachy" in the community, did you
>know that the Dawoodi Bohra Community (fundamentalists)is the only Asian Muslim Community to enforce and practice female genital mutilation?
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com
>>>>>
________________________________________
Posts: 306

saif wrote
Regular
Member # 344 posted 08-02-2002 04:20 PM
________________________________________
Here's the correspondence between Sheikh Dr.Mustafa Abdulhussein, (the Kothari from UK) and Mr Jonah Blank. I leave it to the readers to determine the objectivity of Mr. Blank when he writes:
"......As an anthropologist who has been fortunate enough to have lived among and learned from the Daudi Bohras in India and Pakistan for four years-- with the generous raza and duwa of His Holiness Syedna
Muhammad Burhanuddin (TUS)-- it has always been, and will always be, my hope and intention to repay the community's kindness with kindness in return......"

============================================
Re:
Subject:
Re: posting to internet
Date:
Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:19:50 -0400
From:
Jonah Blank
To:
Mustafa Abdulhussein

Dear members of the Daudi Bohra Internet community:
Shaikh Dr. Mustafa Abdulhussein has asked me to provide some context for an article of mine that has caused some recent internet discussion
("The Muslim Mainstream" in US News & World Report, July 20, 1998). I am very happy to do so, since in my journalistic and academic work I always strive to be sensitive to the concerns of Muslims in general and Bohras in particular.
As an anthropologist who has been fortunate enough to have lived among and learned from the Daudi Bohras in India and Pakistan for four years-- with the generous raza and duwa of His Holiness Syedna Muhammad Burhanuddin (TUS)-- it has always been, and will always be, my hope and intention to repay the community's kindness with kindness in return.
The purpose of my article "The Muslim Mainstream" was to correct some of the negative stereotypes about Muslims so commonly perpetuated by the American media. In so doing, I also hoped to inform a wider audience about the successes of the Daudi Bohras in many areas: in the original text, gender relations made up only one of many topics discussed: the article had been slated for a cover story, and as originally written it showcased the amazing triumphs of the Bohras in such areas as education and modernization; it highlighted both deen and dunya-- showed how, under Syedna's guidance,Bohras have simultaneously reinvigorated traditional practices while moving ahead in the modern world.
In the editing process, the story was cut from 8 pages to 4, most Bohra material was cut out, and the context and nuance of Shamim Dahod's quote fell by the wayside. While I fought the editors hard and tried to retain as much Bohra material as possible, I (rather than Shamim-behn) bear full responsibility for the text. In fact, the Dahod family asked to revise the quote in question, and I would have been quite happy to oblige, but the correction arrived only after the article had gone to type.
Internet postings that have been relayed to me make several excellent points: that dual-career families are not the only
standard for gender equality, and that "matriarchy" might not be the best choice of word to describe the very real equality of the Bohra community. The Dahods'comments to me were entirely in accord with the posted critiques-- and with dawat orthodoxy. Any mischaracterization is my fault (and the fault of my editors) rather than that of the Dahods.
I worked as hard as possible to get a positive, upbeat,stereotype-correcting article on Muslims published by a mainstream American newsmagazine-- as far as I can tell, the first such piece ever by one of the
Big Three newsmagazines (Newsweek once had a smaller piece on Islam
In America, not overly positive, to follow up some heavily anti-Muslim coverage; Time doesn't seem to have done anything unrelated to Mid-East
violence). I am very grateful to everyone who helped make this possible. I am very grateful, also, for the outpouring of support after the article,from Muslims of all denominations. I sincerely apologize for the article's shortcomings-- and when I saw the edited version, I too had a few
bones to pick. But on the whole, I am glad to have been able to show American readers a face of Islam far more positive than what they generally have been shown
by current stereotype. Anyone who wishes to contact me directly can
do so
at: jblank@usnews.com.
With respect, and all best wishes,
Jonah Blank
________________________________________
Posts: 55

Hello guys,

Mumineen has posted too much .....

Average Bohra,

you are right.

Anajmi,

Your as usual sarcastic and take things upon yourself. As I had said earlier, if someone or some sect follows Islam best as compared to others they are Wahabis - not that I agree with them 100%, I even donot agree 100% with Islam, but what I have understood Islam as, I see Wahabis practicing and preaching to their level best. Sunnis come after, Shias after, Bohras nowhere.....!! Bohraism is in fact in Hinduism in a bottle labelled Islamic. Idol worshiping, grave worshiping, making a human being God, believing in Silsale Imamat, making Hussain Christ of Bohraism and hundred of other traditions have proved this is a caste of hinduism. You will all note that currently at mosques there is no time for Sunnah, they rush u thru Farz namaz but they ensure they have time for 2 rakah for Dai. then there is this MATAM, the greatest Bidat. Burhan keeps on doing ziyarat of God knows what and they show it as something great - if he has time left from that BS, he prays. In fact they are going towards a time, when Matam and Ziarat and bowing to statue of Dai will be religion.

There is no imam and none is coming. Even if there was one, may be he was killed by Hurat-ul-Malika and Zoaib and his henchmen. When their rule came under fire, Chamchas from India took over and mixed it with Hinduism and Shiaism.

Yes, that is right, why would some one ask for this crucial advise from total strnagers when he or she has friends..??!!

And Anajmi, I may be gay but I am not a jerk.

JC,

If you are gay, you don't need to be anything else.

DEAR P.RAJ,

I'M NOT WRITTING THIS AS BOHRA, IF U REALLY BELIEVE THAT WHAT THOSE SANKY BOHRAS,SAY IS CORRECT, GRASP ONLY ONE THING FROM THEM, AND THAT IS ALLAH IS ALMIGHTY AND NO ONE ELSE, SO WHAT HE DID WITH YOU IS MADE YOU BORN HINDU. BEING HINDU IS NO DIFFENT TO ALLAH THAN BEING A MUSLIM.

SO BE WHAT ALLAH MADE YOU AND COMMIT GOOD THINGS AND NOT LIKE THOSE, WHO MIGHT HAVE INSPIRED YOU TO BE BOHRA.

REGARDS

Anajmi,

And who do u think you are? I am what I am and I am proud of who I am.

I have all the respects for you but if your criteria (it seems for your posts and if one tries to read between lines) of judging me is only my sexual orientation, then good luck.

JC,

I am sorry my friend. I didn't mean to, well, actually I did. But see, you are a smart guy with knowledge of Islam.

Why don't you try and change yourself? When you say homosexuality is not a choice, I think you are not being entirely truthful. Something that you like to do has to be out of choice. If you hate being a homosexual, well that's a different scenario altogether, but I am sure you do not hate being a homosexual right?

And then your argument about a new translation of the quran revealing that homosexuality is allowed by Allah. Well, can I be waiting for a new translation allowing fornication? or murder? how about rape?

Well, I'll make a deal with you. Give up homosexuality because according to the translations of today it is not allowed. And tommorrow when it does get allowed, I promise you that I will be the first one to sleep with you!!

Well, actually the new translation would have to allow adultery too cause I am married.

Please refrain from personal attacks and stick to the topic of the this string. highjacking the string to homosexuality or being wahabi etc does not contribute to increased knowledge for the starter of this string. There are many serious problems within the administration of the Bohra religion that needs to be addressed, discussed and actions to be taken, why waste our time and energy in silly childish bickerings.

Before anyone ventures out to become part of an organized sect, cult or a religion, read, consider and contemplate on the following links:

www.aididsafar.com (click on the "download PDF" file in English - Highjacking of Islam 3rd edition)

Interesting site Danish. I haven't downloaded the book yet, but I find the theory intriguing as it has been my belief as well.

Certainly doesn't hurt the tourism business in Saudi Arabia !

Anajmi,

Apology accepted, though i was not asking for one.

As for my knowledge of Islam, yes, I have little and I am trying to learn more for whatever source. There are these questions which keep on coming to my mind and I keep on thinking, as if I am very thirsty, i find some answers which satisfy and I find some which increase my thirst, as if i m missing some part. Since Islam has evolved over a period of time and new things have come to light, I believe, it will change more with passage of time and age. As I have said currently Islam is the best available Way and System of Life BUT, it is NOT perfect and there are certain things, interpretation/implementation of which is debatable.

On Homosexuality, I do not have choice. I am NOT attracted to opposite sex, so what should I do? Your argument is valid that if it is agreed today that it is not good, I should wait till the time it is allowed. But, hey as I said, I am what I am, so isn't it OK if I am proud of myself of who ever I am? Everybody should be.

And I donot want you to comit adultery..!!

Thnaks once again.

Kaka Akayla,

We are not trying to 'hijack' the topic. This discussion is already part of our wider discussion on Islam. There are certain political and religious issues confronted by Islam today. One more is coming up .... Leading of Prayers by Women ...... and I intend to bring that too the discussion.

Kaka Sahib, nothing is personal. Everything is related, nothing is absolute. Whatever you say, do, donot say, donot act, is related to life which in turn is governed by a system, law or procedure.

And Kaka, why do u want to confine urself to Bohrasim only. Bohraism is simply nothing, see the wider picture. Most of the things bohras do on the persuation of its priest is wrong, by any standard, religion or no religion. Bohraism is a cult (and NOT a sect or religion) with the sole purpose of accumulatiang money for current so-called Royal Family.

Originally posted by Average Bohra:
Interesting site Danish. I haven't downloaded the book yet, but I find the theory intriguing as it has been my belief as well.

Seldom people vision/reason their GOD given intuitions. Intelligent are many but not wise enough to understand their own intelligence. I am glad that your beliefs are being upheld. Keep it up!

Certainly doesn't hurt the tourism business in Saudi Arabia ![/QB][/QUOTE]
Acutally, its hurting the heck out of "innocent believers" when looked upon as an organized man-made religious system in vain.

The evildoers were enticed by the Devil to manipulate the Quran and bring about a fantastic and cleverly designed man-made Religion to name it Islam, the worst of all other idolworshipping system mankind has ever witnessed. Millions of innocent bystanders and illiterates have been/are duped into such blasphemous and hypocritical doctrine authored by pagan rituals and conjectural heresies, unauthorized by the Quran. It is mind boggling to witness this very so-called Islam bifurcate into two major sects (Sunni and Shia) and further degenerating into several byproducts beyond recognition (Salafi, Ahmedi, Hanafi, Sulemani, Wahabi, Bahaii, Dawoodi, Ismaili, etc, etc.).

The clever “masses” have succeeded and have become the doctors and engineers of Religious Products to have accomplished their goals and being handsomely paid for their inventions and innovations by the mindless consumers enjoying such products, whilst the “greenpies” are graduating in succession on a daily basis, following the footsteps of their masters, to take over their well defined claimed territories, enhancing and furthering the already innovated. But as these “greenpies” are mastering such traits, so are the genuine scientists ever-ready with an antidote.

Lets witness the end result, coming soon.

Hi,

I am new here. I came on this website via searching articles on FGM.
So my question is, is this barbaric rite still performed in your community?
If yes, one (especially women) might reconsider the wish to join the community!!!
Thanx for your reply